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Default mixing plumbing fittings??

I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!!

I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...

Or is there a better method?

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I only ask because I have a case full of comp. fittings from a friend.
cheers

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Default mixing plumbing fittings??

Olly D wrote:
I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!!

I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...

Or is there a better method?

use the compression joints as they are supposed to be used and you
shoulnt have much problems, do not over tighten the compression fitting
and make sure you check all joints after refilling with water. if still
in doubt get plenty of buckets!
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Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full
turn?

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Olly D wrote:
Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full
turn?


I always tighten until they creak or judder a little bit. Then put on
water. Any drips, tighten slightly. Note that brass olives need more
force than the copper ones. Also note, if the pipe itself is not
constrained in some way, often it will turn a bit as you tighen the
fitting, which can be a problem if orientation matters. I have never
had to use jointing paste, PTFE etc.

One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come
with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass
ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ?

Good luck,
Simon.



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Olly D wrote:

I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...


An unusual problem in that most novices start with compression fittings
but are scared of soldered ones! :-)

It's a bit of an odd solution; yes, the threads are the same and it
should probably work OK. However, for a start, notice that the end of
the ball valve fitting has a conical profile, designed to mate up with
an olive in a compression fitting; whereas the comparable end of a tap
is flat in profile, intended to but against the fibre washer which
you'll see inside your tap connector - ie, the seals are different.
That said, it should still seal OK, but IMHO it would be an unnecessary
bodge and also look ugly; furthermore you are introducing two extra
joints at every ball valve for no good reason.

Don't be scared of compression fittings; they are far easier than
soldering. Also easier to dismantle and try again in the unlikely event
of a leak (which anyway would only be likely to be a drip, rather than a
torrent!) Try googling this newsgroup for lots of tips.

David



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"Olly D" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!!

I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...


Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP.
If it is it more lock than anything. Best buy a compression flexible tap
connector with an integral isolation valve.

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I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off
mainly by googling to be honest!
Should also confront ones fears!

Many thanks.

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"Olly D" wrote in
ups.com:

Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full
turn?

I grease the threads lightly so I can feel resistance properly, tighten up
till the pipe is gripped firmly, maybe a bit more - you don't want it
popping out when you turn the water on! - and then pull them up a bit more
if they're weeping.

I'm mortally afraid of overtightening, necking the pipe, specially if
there's only a short bit, because my hovel was previously owned by a
gorilla.

And never ever put a compression fitting in a spot that will be bricked or
tiled over like the ******* professionals who knocked out a wall in my
bog/bathroom did! They may start to weep if disturbed by someone changing a
cistern ball valve.

DAMHIK Grrrr

mike
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Olly D wrote:
My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings.


Then just get on & use some. Such diffidence will be replaced by
confidence.

As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...


If you can solder, you can use two spanners. Look up the manufacturers'
website if you need instructions on how to make a compresssion joint.

Mixing compression and tap connectors would be a bodge; use compression
olives on compression fittings.

The tap connector is a parallel BSP thread and the sealing is by a
compressing the fibre washer between two flat faces. The compression
fitting won't have a suitable flat face.

Different manufacturers of compression fittings use different threads.
Some use BSP threads, others use a finer metric thread.



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"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
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Olly D wrote:
Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full
turn?


I always tighten until they creak or judder a little bit. Then put on
water. Any drips, tighten slightly. Note that brass olives need more
force than the copper ones. Also note, if the pipe itself is not
constrained in some way, often it will turn a bit as you tighen the
fitting, which can be a problem if orientation matters. I have never
had to use jointing paste, PTFE etc.

One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come
with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass
ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ?


Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are
easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting
and reconnecting.


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In article . com,
Olly D writes
I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off
mainly by googling to be honest!
Should also confront ones fears!

That said, my mate had a go and made a complete arse of it, weeping
(both from pipes & eyes) that wouldn't go away. He was working with the
existing pipes which although the right metric size were dinged, scratched
& covered in remains of paint. I'd say, just make sure the pipe is round,
clean & gently polished with a bit of wire wool before you start to assemble
& things shouldn't go far wrong. Good luck.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla
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"fred" wrote in message ...
In article . com,
Olly D writes
I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off
mainly by googling to be honest!
Should also confront ones fears!

That said, my mate had a go and made a complete arse of it, weeping
(both from pipes & eyes) that wouldn't go away. He was working with the
existing pipes which although the right metric size were dinged, scratched
& covered in remains of paint. I'd say, just make sure the pipe is round,
clean & gently polished with a bit of wire wool before you start to
assemble
& things shouldn't go far wrong. Good luck.


And use good quality fittings such as Conex. Wickes sell Conex. Put a
smear of jointing paste on the olive.

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sm_jamieson wrote:


One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come
with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass
ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ?

Good luck,
Simon.


Purely a matter of what the chinese supplier sends to the packer or
merchant.

If the order to the Chinese says 'Copper Olives' thats what they will
supply.

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Doctor Drivel wrote:

Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP.


Sorry to disagree but most 15mm compression fittings now have a 1/2"
BSP thread. Some dont but most do.



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sm_jamieson wrote:
One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come
with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass
ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ?


Simon, you're losing the plot! see http://tinyurl.com/npu7g (or
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/a59fbe945979cfa6/3ba23d05490473bd?hl=en#3ba23d05490473bd

;-)

David
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"Bookworm" wrote in message
ps.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not
BSP.


Sorry to disagree but most 15mm compression fittings now have a 1/2"
BSP thread. Some dont but most do.


The tread is not meant to attach a pipe to, even though they may have used a
BSP thread. The original compression nut threads were deliberately not BSP
to avoid this situation. Pipe threads are longer, that the compression nut
threads on the fittings. DO NOT screw a pipe to the compression fitting.
If the fitting is mean to have copper pipe at each end then do not attach
anything except copper pipe.

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Christian McArdle wrote:

However, in my (somewhat limited) experience fine threads are only ever
found on zone valves for some reason.


Not necessarily. A random handful of 15mm compression nuts have names &
threads thus;

1/2" BSP Conex Sanbra, CZ, Opella, Kuterlite**

Fine Thread(s)* Prestex, Instantor, Kuterlite**

*The "fine thread" actually includes two different threads with the
same pitch but different ODs. I don't know the name of the thread, I'm
sure someone will know.

**Kuterlite fittings are listed in both categories; this isn't a
mistake.

All the nuts are marked 864-2 (BS 864 Pt.2 ).

I've no idea how long these fittings have been in my garage. I'd never
heard of some of the makers, some may not still be in business.

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In article .com,
Olly D wrote:
I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...


A tap connector usually has a square end, while a compression fitting a
taper for the olive. Close examination should show this. In neither case
does the thread do the sealing. It just compresses the seal - either
washer or olive.

--
*I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They
are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when
disconnecting and reconnecting.


******** as usual. If you are simply disconnecting then reconnecting the
same fitting there is no need to replace the olive - indeed you're likely
to cause more problems by doing so if everyone is as cack handed as you.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP.


Really? For one who claims to know so much about the subject, you've
obviously not handled many compression fittings...

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:


Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They
are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when
disconnecting and reconnecting.


********


Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and
wondered why only a trickle came out. This happens when you get to his age
and a hot day doesn't help either. No cocoa tonight for him.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:


The thread for a compression nut
on a fitting is not BSP.


Really?


No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today.
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article .com,
Olly D wrote:
I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including
replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of
using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the
fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the
compression ball valve? The threads look the same...


A tap connector usually has a square end,


He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps. Yes, he cut them. Let's
hope he never plays with gas. My God!!! The thought!

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Default mixing plumbing fittings??

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They
are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when
disconnecting and reconnecting.


********


Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and
wondered why only a trickle came out.


Ah, but no leaks. Now remind us about the hacksaw and plastic pipe
incident...

--
He who laughs last, thinks slowest*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The thread for a compression nut
on a fitting is not BSP.


Really?


No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today.


I'd say you've taken rather too much already.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A tap connector usually has a square end,


He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps.


Low pressure. You said that yourself...

Yes, he cut them. Let's
hope he never plays with gas. My God!!! The thought!


And no leaks for me - even although you think it impossible to cut brass
square and file it smooth.

Of course after the hacksaw and plastic pipe incident, no surprise there...

--
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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I'm glad I registered. Reading past topics - very entertaining!

Nice cool start to the day... time for some plumbing...gulp.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They
are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when
disconnecting and reconnecting.

********


Sad isn't it. He put high pressure
taps on a low pressure system and
wondered why only a trickle came out.


Ah, but no leaks.


....and no water out the taps either.

Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The thread for a compression nut
on a fitting is not BSP.

Really?


No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today.


I'd say


He is saying thing now. Total babble and drivel and frothing, but you have
to admire the attempt. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed.



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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A tap connector usually has a square end,


He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps.


Low pressure.


...it was after you finished with it. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed.

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"Olly D" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm glad I registered. Reading past topics - very entertaining!

Nice cool start to the day... time for some plumbing...gulp.


Follow Richards advice and you will be very cool indeed. The place will be
a like a water fountain.

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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Sad isn't it. He put high pressure
taps on a low pressure system and
wondered why only a trickle came out.


Ah, but no leaks.


...and no water out the taps either.


Haven't you heard of pumping low pressure so you can have the choice of
these fancy monoblock taps? Thought you claimed to know about everything
plumbing. So at least you've learnt something new. Not that you'll
remember it, though, because I've told you this before.

Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed.


It is indeed. Pumps have been around for a very long time. Thought
everyone knew about them.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:


Sad isn't it. He put high pressure
taps on a low pressure system and
wondered why only a trickle came out.

Ah, but no leaks.


...and no water out the taps either.


Haven't


Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie
pies. This hot weather does affect them you know.

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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Haven't


Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie
pies. This hot weather does affect them you know.


Too true.

--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Haven't


Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie
pies. This hot weather does affect them you know.


Too true.


This is encouraging. They must be teaching him self awareness lessons.

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