Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new
owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
"John" wrote in message ... I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. That way they make sure that you are taking an interest in your own security needs. I would also recommend an intruder alarm and smoke detectors if not already installed. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote: options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, The 2 1/2" and 3" measurements are the depth of the case (not the height). These are fairly standard, "Backset" is the distance from the edge of the door to the axis of the doorknob. This is more important, if you're doing a refit. You can adjust most of the heights by chiselling or filling, but you can't do much about this. It's less standard than you'd like, especially for deadbolts with no knob. but how do I know how big the visible plate is. A catalogue with dimensions: http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. Your insurance company won't give a damn what type of lock it is, who made it, or how effective it is. All they ever care about is the magic sigil "BS 3621" marked on it somewhere. You _can_ find non-mortice automatic rimlocks to BS3621 (handy for front doors), so don't be fobbed off by insurance companies insisting that all BS3621 locks are mortices. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote: Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long as the lock meets BS3621. I would also recommend an intruder alarm Not usually a particularly good investment. and smoke detectors if not already installed. And a very good one. -- Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/ |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the
depth of the lock. i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the square bit that the handle fits too. i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required. By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important ) but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark! Jinx "John" wrote in message ... I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:08:44 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote: Couple of things I missed: The 2 1/2" and 3" measurements are the depth of the case (not the height). These are fairly standard, The reason why there are two sizes is (mainly) to cope with glass doors with narrow frames. This is why it's the case _depth_ that's significant, not something sensible like the backset. You _can_ find non-mortice automatic rimlocks to BS3621 (handy for front doors), so don't be fobbed off by insurance companies insisting that all BS3621 locks are mortices. Get the Yale one, not the Chubb. I've had both, hated the Chubb. The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut (usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate on copies is high - I used to take as many faulty ones back as I could actually use. Chubb is insecure. The bolt is flat ended and held on a "trigger" bolt. When you close the door, the trigger releases the main bolt. Now this is fine, and how it stops the deadlock bolt being retracted by wrong-uns. However if you slam the door, or close it very slowly, the bolt may fire when it's not correctly aligned with the frame. The bolt _wedges_ the door closed, but pushing the door allows it to be pushed open ! The plastic interior handle falls off. It's made of unglueium. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
Jinx wrote:
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the depth of the lock. i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the square bit that the handle fits too. i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required. By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important ) but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark! Jinx "John" wrote in message ... I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder. Terry D. (a born pessimist) |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article , Jinx
writes Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the depth of the lock. Yes i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the square bit that the handle fits too. No, it's the case depth, the measurement from the front of the lock to the back of the case. The dimension you describe is the backset. Current chubbs are mm sized, key posn 40mm back from the door edge is likely to be a 67mm (2 1/2") lock, 57mm backset suggests 80mm (3" lock). I say likely 'cos they do a 3" lock with a 40mm backset too. You make the backset/case size mistake once, travel 100mls to middle of nowhere to fit the lock for aged relative, then you don't forget ;-) -- fred |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
"Terry D" wrote in message ... Jinx wrote: Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the depth of the lock. i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the square bit that the handle fits too. i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required. By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important ) but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark! Jinx "John" wrote in message ... I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder. Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows. D |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpam
SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk writes I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder. Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows. Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621 locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement. I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required. -- fred |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote: The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut (usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate on copies is high - Isn't that a good feature? The idea of having a lock where the corner shop can copy the key strikes me as rather daft... I've got a Chubb nightlatch on the front door with glass panels which is one of the few made which conforms to the appropriate BS, and it's been great - it deadlocks from the inside. It replaces a similar principle Yale which broke after a few years. Not cheap, though. -- *If all is not lost, where the hell is it? Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:38:05 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote: The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut (usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate on copies is high - Isn't that a good feature? The idea of having a lock where the corner shop can copy the key strikes me as rather daft... I don't mind the weirdness. But when I traipsed all the way across town to the official Chubb place, and then their freshly cut key didn't work either, then it got a bit annoying. If you have a competent Ford garage, they can cut them too. If they realise they can, and they keep the blanks in stock - but the cutting machine is the same as needed for Fords of a few years ago. I've got a Chubb nightlatch on the front door with glass panels which is one of the few made which conforms to the appropriate BS, This one ? http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/..._Chubb_17.html |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:13:39 +0100, "Terry D"
wrote: However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder) Comments, anyone ? |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article ,
Peter Parry writes: On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop" wrote: Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long as the lock meets BS3621. Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door. However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article ,
"David Hearn" writes: Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows. With the policies I've had, it was something which gets you a discount, which as explained in another post, you probably don't want to take. What you do have to watch is that when you first buy the insurance, whoever is selling it doesn't just tick all the boxes on the form to give you the lowest price quote, which isn't going to cover your real situation. I've seen that happen several times. The best example was a crash repair garage filling out the insurance form for a courtesy car -- the woman just automatically ticked that you hadn't had an accident in last 5 years. I tore it up and filled in a new one myself, much to her protest as she'd been told to always tick that box. Stupid thing was the price of this cover didn't seem to vary according to what you filled in anyway. The largest discount on house insurance was not for window locks, BS door locks, alarms, etc, but was for being part of a neighbourhood watch scheme. That should be a good indication of which of these the insurance companies find most effective as a deterrant. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
"fred" wrote in message ... Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder. Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows. Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621 locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement. I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required. What do your insurers require re. using the locks. Only when you go out, or everytime the window is not actually open? -- Martin [remove barrier to reply] |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes In article , Peter Parry writes: On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:48:49 GMT, "BigWallop" wrote: Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long as the lock meets BS3621. Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door. However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover. Who are you with Andrew? TIA -- fred |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
fred wrote:
In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpam SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk writes I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder. Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows. Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621 locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement. I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required. Another good reason for living 'out in the sticks', there are certainly no such requirements on our house insurance policy. As it is I regularly leave the front door key in the lock by mistake overnight after I've put it in there to allow easy access in and out during the day and no one has ever taken advantage yet. -- Chris Green ) |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article ,
fred writes: In article , Andrew Gabriel writes Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door. However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover. Who are you with Andrew? Seems to be something called Rainbow Policy, by Legal and General. It was arranged by my mortgage broker (bad idea), but I think that isn't who it was originally with. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder) I checked with the nationwide at the time I bought my house because I was worried about this. My door has a metal skin that locking arrangement but they did not have a problem with it and said the same for such "modern" door/lock and it isn't in the policy documents (which look pretty standard to me) as a requirement. Obviously, this might not apply in every case so please check yourself - phone call/letter to your insurer only takes a minute. Andrew |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC
front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder) Comments, anyone ? Interesting info. I wasn't aware that PVC-u doors aren't fitted with BS3621 locks. Personally, I hate PVC doors, especially white. I had hardwood doors fitted instead, with BS3621 locks and deadbolts. I repeat more or less what I said in an earlier posting - whatever precautions you take, a professional thief can be in and out of your property within 5 minutes, together with your most valuable possessions, so make sure that you conform to your insurance company requirements for the resulting claim. And remember that you're not allowed to shoot the thieves, but I think they're allowed to shoot you if you offer resistance, and then probably sue you for stress! Terry D. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:01:54 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote: AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder) Comments, anyone ? The insurance companies run a separate "approved lock" scheme for multipoint locks which meet their security standard but can't meet BS3621 for some reason related to the way the standard is written. I had the correct name for it somewhere and I think its somewhere on the Essex Fittings web site. -- Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/ |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
If you take the old locks to a locksmith (or DIY outlet) you should be able
to match them up with something there. If you don't fancy leaving your house without any locks, trace the outline of the locks and the positions of the holes onto a piece of paper. "BigWallop" wrote in message ... "John" wrote in message ... I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever. TIA John Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. That way they make sure that you are taking an interest in your own security needs. I would also recommend an intruder alarm and smoke detectors if not already installed. http://1867.com |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Mortice Locks
In article ,
Ben wrote: Her parents were in the the habit of leaving the door open on hot nights to let some air into their house in LONDON!!! I'd have thought they were lucky it was only a fox that walked in. London is a big place. In some areas your front door would be stolen if you left it open, in others it's no worse than anywhere else. I certainly don't feel the need to sit up all night with a sawn-off shotgun. ;-( -- *Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles* Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|