Dear All,

Not posted for a long while but still read the new threads most days.

I have a problem...at the top of my indirect vented HW cylinder is
the 22mm outlet pipe leading to the various HW taps in the house.
The cylinder has a 1"BSP female thread in the copper with a brass
insert to convert to a 22mm compression fitting.

I would like to install a Surrey flange in this location and would like

to remove the brass insert. But it doesnt want to be shifted
without distorting the cylinder (already done this and fixed without
splitting the cylinder). The cylinder was full of water for additional
support during this attempt at removal.

Is this a removable insert or is it part of the cylinder installed at
manufacture and not designed to be removed? If it is removable
any ideas on releasing the thread? Heat/plus gas etc? (The cylinder is
coated in insulating foam if this is important).

The Surrey flange has a 1"BSP male thread to install in the top of
the cylinder and a female 1"BSP thread in the top of the flange to
take the reinstalled insert from the cylinder.

regards

Ian L

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:11:15 -0700, i.lewis2 wrote:

Is this a removable insert or is it part of the cylinder installed at
manufacture and not designed to be removed? If it is removable
any ideas on releasing the thread? Heat/plus gas etc? (The cylinder is
coated in insulating foam if this is important).

It's just stuck. I had one like that and decided that discretion is the
better part of valour and left it be. If you want a shower flange use an
essex instead.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Dear All,

Not posted for a long while but still read the new threads most days.

I have a problem...at the top of my indirect vented HW cylinder is
the 22mm outlet pipe leading to the various HW taps in the house.
The cylinder has a 1"BSP female thread in the copper with a brass
insert to convert to a 22mm compression fitting.

I would like to install a Surrey flange in this location and would
like

to remove the brass insert. But it doesnt want to be shifted
without distorting the cylinder (already done this and fixed without
splitting the cylinder). The cylinder was full of water for additional
support during this attempt at removal.

Is this a removable insert or is it part of the cylinder installed at
manufacture and not designed to be removed? If it is removable
any ideas on releasing the thread? Heat/plus gas etc? (The cylinder is
coated in insulating foam if this is important).

The Surrey flange has a 1"BSP male thread to install in the top of
the cylinder and a female 1"BSP thread in the top of the flange to
take the reinstalled insert from the cylinder.

regards

Ian L

The 1" to 3/4" adapter should certainly be removeable - but it's probably in
pretty tightly, and stuck with thread sealant. There's no absolute guarantee
that it will come out non-destructively, but your best best - the same as
when removing immersion heaters - is to employ impact rather than steady
torque. In other words, don't use a long spanner and pull on the end but use
a shorter spanner and hit it with a hammer. Keeping the cylinder full of
water while you do it is a very good idea.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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wrote:

I would like to install a Surrey flange in this location and would like

Well assuming that walloping it does not work, you can get round it by
making your own Surrey/Warix flange....

(ASCII art alert - switch to a monospaced font)

You need a 22mm solder ring tee, and a 22mm male to 15mm female end feed
fitting reducer.

First make the inner pipe of the flange from a bit of 15mm copper pipe.
Near the bottom end of the pipe, cut about half of the way through it
with a hacksaw. Now cut along the pipe up from the end so that you cut a
section of pipe out leaving just a semi circular bit left:

| | | |
| | | |
| | --- | _|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

Flatten the remaining bit of pipe and then fold it round to make a
shroud over the end of the pipe. This will prevent the pipe sucking
straight "up" and messing up the stratification of water in the tank:

| |
| |
| |
|
\___

Now take your fitting reducer and stick it on the top of the 15mm pipe
*upside down*, and tap it down onto the pipe such that you force it past
the end stop designed to prevent the 15mm pipe passing right into the
reducer (trying a selection of fitting reducers you may find one loose
enough in the first place to go without much force) position it so that
there is an inch or two sticking out of the top of the reducer. Solder
it in place:

| |
| |
| |
|| ||
|| ||
/ | | \
/ | | \
| | | |
| | | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
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|
\___




Now cut the 22mm pipe leaving the top of the cylinder (turning off the
feed to and draining a few litres out of it first if you want to keep dry!)

Fit a 22mm equal tee to the top of the cylinder pipe outlet pipe,
connect the old pipe to the rest of the taps to the side of the tee, and
insert your "flange" pipe into the top. Connect the shower etc to the
15mm pipe at the top of the flange. Solder it all up, job done:



^
|
| To shower
|

| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|| ||
|| ||
/ | | \
/ | | \
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
| | | |
| | | |_________
| | |
| | | Tee, to taps
| | |
| | | _________
| | | |
| | | |
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | --- stub of 22mm pipe that used to feed taps
| | | |
| | | |
##| | | |##
##| | | |## ---- compression fitting on cylinder
##| | | |##
______##| | | |##________
| | ---- top of cylinder
| |
| | Water to taps still comes from top of cylinder
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| --- water for shower drawn from lower down
\___









--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm writes
wrote:

I would like to install a Surrey flange in this location and would like

Well assuming that walloping it does not work, you can get round it by
making your own Surrey/Warix flange....

(ASCII art alert - switch to a monospaced font)

| |
| |
|| ||
|| ||
/ | | \
/ | | \
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
| | | |
| | | |_________
| | |
| | | Tee, to taps
| | |
| | | _________
| | | |
| | | |
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
| | | |
| | | | --- stub of 22mm pipe that used to feed taps
| | | |
##| | | |##
##| | | |## ---- compression fitting on cylinder
##| | | |##
______##| | | |##________
| | ---- top of cylinder
| |
| | Water to taps still comes from top of cylinder
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| --- water for shower drawn from lower down
\___

Nice one John, I've considered a similar setup with a (much) longer central
pipe as a return for a DHW circulation pump.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:43:30 GMT, fred wrote:

Nice one John, I've considered a similar setup with a (much) longer central
pipe as a return for a DHW circulation pump.

Twas indeed. The only change I would make is instead of copper bashing to
make a right angle I would solder a 90 end feed elbow to the end of the 15
mm tube but would cut off the unsoldered arm of the elbow.

OTOH, every commerical Surrey flange I have seen doesn't have a right angle
for water draw off.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:43:30 GMT, fred wrote:

Nice one John, I've considered a similar setup with a (much) longer
central
pipe as a return for a DHW circulation pump.

Twas indeed. The only change I would make is instead of copper bashing to
make a right angle I would solder a 90 end feed elbow to the end of the 15
mm tube but would cut off the unsoldered arm of the elbow.

I would solder in a 15mm male cap at the end of the pipe. Then drill holes
around the pipe. Then it takes in water from 360 degrees at the top of the
cylinder. Much better. Ramming a fitting over a pipe is not good.

Another way is to have a compression: 15mm top X 22mm centre X 22mm bottom
tee. Or, depending on cylinder connection a compression: 15mm top X 22mm
centre X 3/4" male or female bottom tee.

Drill or file out the 15mm pipe stop in the compression tee. Now a 15mm pipe
with an internal male solder cap in the end can be inserted. The olive slid
down and the nut tightened. The tee just fits in the cylinder DHW draw-off.
A blow torch will not be needed.

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

You need a 22mm solder ring tee, and a 22mm male to 15mm female end feed
fitting reducer.

Thanks John,

Great ascii art...I had seen this described on uk.diy some months ago
but was worried about flow rate through the 22mm to the pipe as its
internal cross section is reduced by the presence of the 15mm pipe to
the shower.

Has anyone tried this and obtained reasonable flow rates to the hot
taps (eg bath)?

Ian L

wrote in message
oups.com...

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

You need a 22mm solder ring tee, and a 22mm male to 15mm female end feed
fitting reducer.

Thanks John,

Great ascii art...I had seen this described on uk.diy some months ago
but was worried about flow rate through the 22mm to the pipe as its
internal cross section is reduced by the presence of the 15mm pipe to
the shower.

Has anyone tried this and obtained reasonable flow rates to the hot
taps (eg bath)?

Best read what I wrote, and use compression fittings, you don't force pipes
past pipe stops on fittings. If the tapping on the top of the cylinder is
1" BSP, then a 1" BSP x 22mm x 22mm tee can be used. Then reduce to 15mm at
the top of the tee (the shower take off). The tee off to the bath is then
22mm so full flow to baths. Using a 22mm tee and running a 15mm through it
will obviously reduce flow.

wrote:

Great ascii art...I had seen this described on uk.diy some months ago
but was worried about flow rate through the 22mm to the pipe as its
internal cross section is reduced by the presence of the 15mm pipe to
the shower.

Well to an extent it will have to reduce the flow a bit, but by how much
is going ot be hard to call. The situation is unlikely to be any better
with a "real" Surrey flange unless you can find one that fits directly
into the cylinder 1" connector without requiring any reduction boss.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Best read what I wrote, and use compression fittings, you don't force

Hmm, plumbing is not your thing is it

No. Pipe and plumbing are not as one as your tiny mind thinks. This is
sad.

pipes past pipe stops on fittings. If the tapping on the top of the
cylinder is 1" BSP, then a 1" BSP x 22mm x 22mm tee can be used. Then
reduce to 15mm at the top of the tee (the shower take off). The tee off
to the bath is then 22mm so full flow to baths. Using a 22mm tee and
running a 15mm through it will obviously reduce flow.

The minor points he neglects to mention a that while sliding an end
feed fitting reducer down a length of 15mm pipe is very easy,

It isn't. There is a pipe stop in the fitting. You are ramming a pipe past a
stop. Onl;y cowboys do this. The pipe stop in the fitting should be filed
or drilled out.

doing something similar with a brass compression fitting will require that
you drill out the pipe end stop.

EXACTLY! As you should, drill it out.

You may find the cost of the 15mm drill bit and a drill press a tad
excessive

Press? My God.

As for the 1" BSP male to x 22mm compression fitting, good luck finding
one of those!

1" BSP x 28mm with reducers.

snip babbling drivel

If anyone is making their own Surrey flange, justfollow what I wrote. DON'T
ram pipes past pipe stops in end feed fittings.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

If anyone is making their own Surrey flange, justfollow what I wrote.

Stick to flags.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If anyone is making their own Surrey flange, justfollow what I wrote.

Chav,

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