Hi all - I have an electrician in, wiring up a loft conversion and he
decided to have a nose in my cellar at the consumer unit etc. There is
an earth cable running from the terminal near the service head to a
bonding clamp on the cable gland at the end of the armoured supply
cable coming in front the street.
He said that the cable wasn't thick enough and that bonding using the
type of clamp used on 15/22mm copper pipe does not meet with the
current IEE regulations and would have to be upgraded before he could
complete his work. He also said that EDF would need to do this work as
he isn't allowed to. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue
and is he correct in what he's saying ?

Thanks

Peter

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all - I have an electrician in, wiring up a loft conversion and he
decided to have a nose in my cellar at the consumer unit etc. There is
an earth cable running from the terminal near the service head to a
bonding clamp on the cable gland at the end of the armoured supply
cable coming in front the street.
He said that the cable wasn't thick enough and that bonding using the
type of clamp used on 15/22mm copper pipe does not meet with the
current IEE regulations and would have to be upgraded before he could
complete his work. He also said that EDF would need to do this work as
he isn't allowed to. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue
and is he correct in what he's saying ?

Thanks

Peter


yes he is correct an earth bonding clamp is not suitable for use in this
fashion.

the supplier should be contacted as it is possible that if no earth termnal
has been provided, that the armour of the incoming cable is not a suitable
earth.

Loz

He said that the cable wasn't thick enough and that bonding using the
type of clamp used on 15/22mm copper pipe does not meet with the
current IEE regulations and would have to be upgraded before he could
complete his work. He also said that EDF would need to do this work as
he isn't allowed to.

He is basically right, although I suspect the electricity company will fix
it free.

They will probably do one of 3 things:

1. They might turn around and say that they don't provide an earth, in which
case you must convert to a TT system, with RCDs everywhere and an earth rod.
This could be expensive.

2. They might fix your TN-S earthing using a proper clamp. This will be the
cheapest and simplest option.

3. They might upgrade you to TN-C-S. This will be safer, but can sometimes
require some work on your installation to bring main equipotential bonding
up to spec if it is undersized, amongst other potential problems.

Christian.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all - I have an electrician in, wiring up a loft conversion and he
decided to have a nose in my cellar at the consumer unit etc. There is
an earth cable running from the terminal near the service head to a
bonding clamp on the cable gland at the end of the armoured supply
cable coming in front the street.
He said that the cable wasn't thick enough and that bonding using the
type of clamp used on 15/22mm copper pipe does not meet with the
current IEE regulations and would have to be upgraded before he could
complete his work. He also said that EDF would need to do this work as
he isn't allowed to. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue
and is he correct in what he's saying ?

Thanks

Peter


OT, but be prepared for the most unbelievable amount of muddle and hassle in
dealing with EDF Energy or their subcontractors (Morrison Utility Services
in my case). I don't have the time or energy to detail all the
failures-to-show, faulty referrals to other companies etc I've had since EDF
Energy wrote in January to say they wanted to change my meter. Suffice it to
say that they couldn't pull the main fuse and five months later I am still
waiting for someone to turn up who can, or who will change the service head
if they can't. Next appointment 1 June after they failed to turn up last
Monday...

I asked them to upgrade my weedy main earth when changing the fuse/service
head/meter: the OSG suggests 16mm csa minimum and it looks like the existing
one is 6mm or even 4mm only. They agreed to look at it but I'm not holding
my breath, given the progress so far.

You may not have these problems but be ready.

I'm a Whitehall civil servant and if my performance was as pathetic as this
bunch of supposedly efficient private service providers, I'd have been
sacked long ago. A case for bringing back some of the nationalised
industries? Can't be worse than this. Rant ends.

Next appointment 1 June after they failed to turn up last Monday...
A case for bringing back some of the nationalised industries? Can't
be worse than this. Rant ends.

Oh, but it can get better - keep the dates of the no-shows, and remind
them that under the guaranteed standards of service you are entitled to
a payment - and not telling you you were entitled to a payment incurs
another payment :-)

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
Next appointment 1 June after they failed to turn up last Monday...
A case for bringing back some of the nationalised industries? Can't
be worse than this. Rant ends.

Oh, but it can get better - keep the dates of the no-shows, and remind
them that under the guaranteed standards of service you are entitled to
a payment - and not telling you you were entitled to a payment incurs
another payment :-)

Indeed; point taken. But in this case it isn't as straightforward as missing
appointments for something easily defined. It's all the buck-passing: "sorry
guv I can't touch that bit of your installation" and "sorry guv I'm only a
subcontractor" etc. And then the basic incompetence, like repeatedly leaving
last-minute messages for me only on my work phone where the voicemail
clearly says "I am not at work today", they know it's my work contact and
they know it's about my home anyway (where I am sitting waiting for them to
show).

On Fri, 26 May 2006 18:09:04 +0000, rrh wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all - I have an electrician in, wiring up a loft conversion and he
decided to have a nose in my cellar at the consumer unit etc. There is
an earth cable running from the terminal near the service head to a
bonding clamp on the cable gland at the end of the armoured supply
cable coming in front the street.
He said that the cable wasn't thick enough and that bonding using the
type of clamp used on 15/22mm copper pipe does not meet with the
current IEE regulations and would have to be upgraded before he could
complete his work. He also said that EDF would need to do this work as
he isn't allowed to. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue
and is he correct in what he's saying ?

Thanks

Peter


OT, but be prepared for the most unbelievable amount of muddle and hassle in
dealing with EDF Energy or their subcontractors (Morrison Utility Services
in my case). I don't have the time or energy to detail all the
failures-to-show, faulty referrals to other companies etc I've had since EDF
Energy wrote in January to say they wanted to change my meter. Suffice it to
say that they couldn't pull the main fuse and five months later I am still
waiting for someone to turn up who can, or who will change the service head
if they can't. Next appointment 1 June after they failed to turn up last
Monday...

I asked them to upgrade my weedy main earth when changing the fuse/service
head/meter: the OSG suggests 16mm csa minimum and it looks like the existing
one is 6mm or even 4mm only. They agreed to look at it but I'm not holding
my breath, given the progress so far.

You may not have these problems but be ready.

I'm a Whitehall civil servant and if my performance was as pathetic as this
bunch of supposedly efficient private service providers, I'd have been
sacked long ago. A case for bringing back some of the nationalised
industries? Can't be worse than this. Rant ends.

Remember this one, I kept 'cos I enjoyed writing it a couple of years ago.

Washing machine not working in a flat.
OK it's the 13A fuse (32A MCB ring circuit no RCD) replace fuse all is well but
... fuses don't blow by themselves so I thought I'll check to see if the
current consumption during heat/pump/spin are plausible. (E.g. there might
be 20A being drawn by a broken heater - say). So I gently eased my tong-tester
(clip on ammeter) around the meter tail.... flash and darkness ... as my
eyes adjusted to the dark I saw the meter tail had _fallen_ out of the
meter (meter replaced an Sub-sub-sub...contractor of Siemens Metering only
a month or two ago).

Decided that whilst I _could_ pull the fuse, break the seals etc. and fix
fault in minutes I would do the 'right' thing...

1) Phone EDF Emergency Eastern Service. Â*(Formerly 24-7 Formerly
Eastern Elec. Formerly the EEB).
Â* Â*Menus & music one level (MM1).
Â* Â*Nice guy. Asked me precisely which wire had falled out. Told me outgoing
meter tails are handled by the supplier. Don't come back to us _they_ must
fix it.

2) Got tenant to find recent bill. (Nobody except a verified cusotmer can
Â*speak to a supplier) Phone NPower. MM1. Another nice guy.
Explain situation carefully. Put on hold.
2 minutes later... "This is the number you need...."

3) Phone "needed" number. MM2 (2 levels of menus & 'soothing' music).
Actually was "Eastern Contracting" or some such. Â*No person at all but the
number your need is ... the one for EDF Emergency Eastern Service
like I got from the phone book before at stage (1).

4) Try previous number again but take different route through MM2 to hold
for an advisor. Â*Engaged tone 3 minutes before giving up.

5) Try Npower again. MM1. Another nice guy. Explain situation carefully.
Unfortunately this guy has short term memory problems.

NP:"You'll need a qualified electrician to fix it."
ES:"Really! I thought this was seriously off limits." Â*(Knowning full well
it is).
NP:"No, all you need is a qualified electrician."
ES:"Just to check, we are talking about the connection on the meter
itself."
NP:"I'll just check with my supervisor."

.... more music ...

NP:"Oops sorry, You can't fix it."
ES:"Right-oh. When are _you_ going to fix it?"
NP:"I'll give you a number."
ES:"Been there, done that, I'll be back here. EDF won't fix meter outlet
problems. _When_ are you going to fix it?"
NP:"It does need fixing."
ES:"Yep. It does indeed."
NP:"I'll ring you back."

5 minutes later.
NP:"It's OK for you to get a qualified electrician to fix it."
ES:"We are talking about the wire which has falled out of the METER."
NP:"I'll check and ring you back".

10 minutes later.
NP:"Someone will be there in the next 9 hours."
ES:"OK what's the job reference." (So I can progress chase if needed).
.....

Experienced guy turns up one hour later, fixes it in 5 minutes. (Also
checks all the other terminals at his own suggestion which saved me
the bother of requesting he did so). He holds unprintable views about
Â*'contractors'.

Tenant: It has taken a lot of work, I think things are simpler in
Japan.

This is the 3rd time in about 6 years that I have directly experienced a
serious fault on an electrical installation associated with a meter
replacement. Twice it was loose tails, Â*Once it was polarity reversal.

If I were a campaigning sort of bloke. I'd be saying this has
got to stop:
Negligent contractors.
Squabbling and buck passing between the Electric companies.
Door step energy sales.

We need:
One emergency number like the gas.
One emergency provider like the gas.
The criminal offence of selling energy door to door.

With appologies to JRRT.

Three ring tones for the Powers of Hell.
Seven for the Gen Co.s and yet some more.
Nine for the Supply Co.s doomed to sell.
One for a saleman at every door.
In the Land of London where the shadows lie.
No number to rule them all, nor one to find them,
No number to ring them all for service by them,
In the land of London where the shadows lie.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Indeed; point taken. But in this case it isn't as straightforward as missing
appointments for something easily defined. It's all the buck-passing: "sorry
guv I can't touch that bit of your installation" and "sorry guv I'm only a
subcontractor" etc.

If the meter operator is already on site and can`t carry out work due to
the failure of equipment belonging to the REC it needs to be passed as
an emergency call - you effectively have no means of isolation if there
was a fire (and you had no DP isolator switch fitted).

The RECs` shift sparks are authorised to do whatever is required to put
the customer back on supply - which includes bypassing the meter
entirely if necessary, and the meter operator to rerurn at a later date.

I would love to see letter from Energywatch if the customer was on a
dialysis machine, and the shift electrician didn`t get the customer back
on supply by hook or by crook (*where safe to do so).

...And then the basic incompetence, like repeatedly leaving
last-minute messages for me only on my work phone where the voicemail
clearly says "I am not at work today", they know it's my work contact and
they know it's about my home anyway (where I am sitting waiting for them to
show).

I think its reasonable to reject that as a means of contact if they`re
only trying to get hold of you on the day. Strongly suggest they make
the payment or you`ll refer it to energywatch anyway.

The message .uk
from Ed Sirett contains these words:

Door step energy sales.

Oh, don't get me started on that.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.