UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Jason
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

Hi

I've been looking to replace as many of the bulbs in my house as possible
with low energy ones, and wondered if anyone could help with some advice on
obtaining the following:

- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?

- The highest power candle bulb replacements I've seen are 7w (Screwfix and
Toolstation). They're apparently equivalent to 40w. Does anyone know where
I can get 11w ones, or are the 7w ones alright?

Finally, are there effective (and reasonably priced) R50 SES replacements
available, or am I looking at replacing the kitchen light fittings?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Jason


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Andrew Gabriel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

In article ,
"Jason" writes:
Hi

I've been looking to replace as many of the bulbs in my house as possible
with low energy ones, and wondered if anyone could help with some advice on
obtaining the following:

- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?


The reason is that many dusk/dawn and PIR switches reply on powering
themselves through the lamp filament, and this doesn't generally
work if you use a compact fluorescent. Dusk/dawn and PIR switches
which use a relay will work fine -- can you hear a relay click when
your lights go on and off?

Secondly, compact fluorescents are unsuitable for frequent and
short-term switching associated with PIRs. They can take a few
minutes to warm up to full light output, particularly in the cold.
Frequent switching will have a detrimental impact on their life.

- The highest power candle bulb replacements I've seen are 7w (Screwfix and
Toolstation). They're apparently equivalent to 40w. Does anyone know where
I can get 11w ones, or are the 7w ones alright?


My rule is to multiply the power by 4 times to get the equivalent
filament lamp, so I don't believe 7W will be equivalent to a 40W
lamp. YMMV...

For outdoor lamps, particularly in winter, I would suggest using
the type with an additional outer glass bulb (which probably is
the case with your candle lamps) rather than those with exposed
tubes, which can struggle to get up to temperature.

Finally, are there effective (and reasonably priced) R50 SES replacements
available, or am I looking at replacing the kitchen light fittings?


R50 compact fluorescents exist. I don't have personal experience
on how effective they are. The difficulty in folding the tube
into the available space and getting all of the tube exposed to
the front means, I suspect, that they would not do as well as
my 4-times rule, which means you are going to struggle to get
the same lighting level from them.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Harry Bloomfield
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

Jason wrote on 23/04/2006 :
- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?


The problem is not the switch on surge or running current, but the fact
that some PIR units work without a live going to them - depending upon
the the low resistance of the lamp to pass enough current to supply the
PIR unit. If there are several lamps on one PIR, then make one a normal
lamp and it should work fine. Anther way is to add a resistor across
the lamp terminals to pass enough current.

Having said that, low energy lamps are best not used in places where
they can expect frequent switching to take place. A secondary problem
is that their light output is poor on initial switch on until they have
warmed up. Outdoors this could take some time, especially so in winter.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Jason" contains these words:


- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?


I've used 'em in PIR lights without trouble for years.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Jason" wrote in message
...


We don't have a PIR security light because the frequent switching on and off
is irritating. Well, more than irritating.

But we use a low energy lamp in a holder which is sensitised by low and high
light conditions. It comes on at dusk and goes off at sunrise, all year
round.

This might not be what you want but for us it's ideal.


Mary




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
David Hansen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:06:05 +0100 someone who may be "Jason"
wrote this:-

Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?


For such things instant startup is desirable. Dusk to dawn lights
are an alternative.

- The highest power candle bulb replacements I've seen are 7w (Screwfix and
Toolstation). They're apparently equivalent to 40w. Does anyone know where
I can get 11w ones, or are the 7w ones alright?


Alright for what? Answers depend on your circumstances and opinions.

Finally, are there effective (and reasonably priced) R50 SES replacements
available,


Yes they are available. For example B&Q sell them for about £10. I
think this reasonable, others may not.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
chris French
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
"Jason" writes:
Hi

I've been looking to replace as many of the bulbs in my house as possible
with low energy ones, and wondered if anyone could help with some advice on
obtaining the following:

- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?


The reason is that many dusk/dawn and PIR switches reply on powering
themselves through the lamp filament, and this doesn't generally
work if you use a compact fluorescent. Dusk/dawn and PIR switches
which use a relay will work fine -- can you hear a relay click when
your lights go on and off?

Yeah, I fitted a 'dusk/dawn' sensor that would work with CFL, but for
PIR operated lights which are usually only on for a few minutes it
doesn't seem worth worrying about anyway.

- The highest power candle bulb replacements I've seen are 7w (Screwfix and
Toolstation). They're apparently equivalent to 40w. Does anyone know where
I can get 11w ones, or are the 7w ones alright?


My rule is to multiply the power by 4 times to get the equivalent
filament lamp, so I don't believe 7W will be equivalent to a 40W
lamp. YMMV...

Yeah I use the 4x rule - even at the normal claimed 5x it's only be 35 W

Re availability, look for specialist sellers, they have wider variety
than more generalist sellers. A web search for 'light bulbs' etc. will
turn up a number of retailers.

I've used

http://www.eurobatteries.com/

http://www.gbbulbs.co.uk/

In the last year.

The latter list 11W CFL candle
--
Chris French

  #8   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

We don't have a PIR security light because the frequent switching on
and off
is irritating. Well, more than irritating.


You can adjust/mask the sensor so it only goes off when you want it to.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

We don't have a PIR security light because the frequent switching on
and off
is irritating. Well, more than irritating.


You can adjust/mask the sensor so it only goes off when you want it to.


Loses the point, really!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.



  #10   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You can adjust/mask the sensor so it only goes off when you want it to.


Loses the point, really!


No it doesn't. We've a PIR by the front door, but unmasked it reacts to
people walking along the footpath outside. Masked it only lights as you
walk through the gate.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Pete C
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:06:05 +0100, "Jason"
wrote:

Hi

I've been looking to replace as many of the bulbs in my house as possible
with low energy ones, and wondered if anyone could help with some advice on
obtaining the following:

- Replacements for 60w ES bulbs, which are switched by PIRs. All of the
lamps I've seen state they're not suitable for dusk/dawn or PIR switches. I
assume this is due to a heavy surge surrent when they're first switched on.
Does anyone know where I can get some that ARE suitable for use with PIR
switches?

- The highest power candle bulb replacements I've seen are 7w (Screwfix and
Toolstation). They're apparently equivalent to 40w. Does anyone know where
I can get 11w ones, or are the 7w ones alright?


Depends on the size of room and number in the fitting. Philips do a 9w
candle eg:

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0019981/Trail/C%24cip%3D35826.Homewares%3EC%24cip%3D35893.Lighti ng%3EC%24cip%3D35904.Light%2Bbulbs.htm

Finally, are there effective (and reasonably priced) R50 SES replacements
available, or am I looking at replacing the kitchen light fittings?


The problem they might have is that they stick out too much, so it's
worth measuring the existing bulb and fitting to see how much room
there is.

These might be OK in most fittings:

http://www.ryness.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?categoryID=823&category4ID=998 &productID=946

I've had good results with normal round shape 12w Philips Softone
bulbs in R80 spots, they stick out a little but aren't too bad.

The other thing to watch out for is the colour temperature and CRI
(colour rendering index) Colour temperature is basically how cool or
warm the light is, and CRI how evenly balanced the light is in colour
terms. A Google search will get you a much better explanation ~

If you get bulbs from Philips or Osram they should give pretty good
CRI and their websites should give details, but some bulbs esp.
unbranded or 'own brand' ones may not be that good. This may not
matter /that/ much in a kitchen but will in a living room or bedroom.

For long term task lighting like over a desk or most used kitchen
worktop a couple of halogens might still be worth having.

cheers,
Pete.
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Frank Erskine
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:21:57 +0100, Guy King
had this to say:

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You can adjust/mask the sensor so it only goes off when you want it to.


Loses the point, really!


No it doesn't. We've a PIR by the front door, but unmasked it reacts to
people walking along the footpath outside. Masked it only lights as you
walk through the gate.


There's a street nearby where if you walk along the footway in the
evening, PIR "controlled" lamps on both sides of the road at two
particular houses activate almost simultaneously, even though the
gardens are reasonably long.

--
Frank Erskine
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You can adjust/mask the sensor so it only goes off when you want it to.


Loses the point, really!


No it doesn't. We've a PIR by the front door, but unmasked it reacts to
people walking along the footpath outside. Masked it only lights as you
walk through the gate.


Gosh, how useful!

We have a dusk todawn light in the carport so that we can see in the dark if
we need to go out and so that visitors can also see. I'd rather not have it
at all, there's enough light from others ources, but Mr Gadget Man (Spouse)
wanted to use a rather nice light bracket he found in the depths of the
garage.

It makes me smile when he complains about people using torches when there's
no street lighting, saying that it spoils their night vision. He's right, it
does, but he can't relate that to our 'security' light.

But he's a man.

What security does it give by the way?

Mary


  #14   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

What security does it give by the way?


What, ours? None, it's so you can see to put the key in the lock.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

What security does it give by the way?


What, ours? None, it's so you can see to put the key in the lock.


You can get these little torches which attatch to your key ring ... or
usethe one in your mobile ... or simply feel for the keyhole.

Or call them keyhole lights, not security lights. And they don't need to be
pir or filtered.

Mary

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.





  #16   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

What, ours? None, it's so you can see to put the key in the lock.


You can get these little torches which attatch to your key ring ... or
usethe one in your mobile ... or simply feel for the keyhole.


Ah - the wife can't really manage that. She needs two hands to get the
door open.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Helen Deborah Vecht
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

"Mary Fisher" typed

What security does it give by the way?


False sense thereof, methinks...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
David Hansen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:18:59 +0100 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

No it doesn't. We've a PIR by the front door, but unmasked it reacts to
people walking along the footpath outside. Masked it only lights as you
walk through the gate.


Gosh, how useful!


Very useful in one of the houses in the family. The light comes on
as a human reaches for the gate on the drive. It is not set off by
the neighbours or people on the path. Now all we have to do is stop
a cat setting it off.

It makes me smile when he complains about people using torches when there's
no street lighting, saying that it spoils their night vision. He's right, it
does, but he can't relate that to our 'security' light.

But he's a man.


Nothing wrong with being of the male persuasion.

What security does it give by the way?


Low level lighting does deter some people, who would rather be in
the dark. However, it does not deter all of them.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:18:59 +0100 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

No it doesn't. We've a PIR by the front door, but unmasked it reacts to
people walking along the footpath outside. Masked it only lights as you
walk through the gate.


Gosh, how useful!


Very useful in one of the houses in the family. The light comes on
as a human reaches for the gate on the drive. It is not set off by
the neighbours or people on the path. Now all we have to do is stop
a cat setting it off.


Quite.

It makes me smile when he complains about people using torches when
there's
no street lighting, saying that it spoils their night vision. He's right,
it
does, but he can't relate that to our 'security' light.

But he's a man.


Nothing wrong with being of the male persuasion.


Nothing at all. But many of them do seem to have inconsistent thinking - not
you IME.

What security does it give by the way?


Low level lighting does deter some people, who would rather be in
the dark. However, it does not deter all of them.


No. And it's rarely dark in cities. Our drive certainly isn't even without
the light :-(

Our house is one of the few in this street which hasn't a burglar alarm,
many prominently displayed.

Our house is one of the few in this street which hasn't been burgled.

Those facts aren't necessarily related but those without alarms never cause
nuisance by 'false' alarm soundings. There are advantages and disadvantages
to any device.

Mary


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from Owain contains these words:

That, Mary, is because your house is one of the few in the street -
probably in the land - where the bin lorry doesn't collect, it delivers.


While I was on holiday the neighbour who I asked to put out bin out
forgot. Since we had fortnightly collections here it'll be nearly a
month since it was last emptied.

Good job we've got a compost heap!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Owain" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
But he's a man.
Nothing wrong with being of the male persuasion.

Nothing at all. But many of them do seem to have inconsistent thinking -


That's good, coming from a woman!

not you IME.


Ditto

Our house is one of the few in this street which hasn't a burglar alarm,
many prominently displayed.
Our house is one of the few in this street which hasn't been burgled.


That, Mary, is because your house is one of the few in the street -
probably in the land - where the bin lorry doesn't collect, it delivers.
Empty jam-jars?


We generate our own, but they're honey jars :-)

Scrap iron?


We generate our own ...

Anything that can be unpicked/unravelled/reused/recycled? The Fishers will
take it, if they haven't already got it, which by now they probably have.


Yes.

(In the nicest possible way, of course.)


Of course :-)

I think (I've said it before ad nauseam) that the local lads will know
what's in this house and don't want it, it's not easily sellable.

Which is what you said in another way :-

That's not to say that there's nothing 'valuable'. But even if we lost those
few things (which aren't easily recogniseable as valuable) our reaction
would be to say that the loss will stop family arguments when we're dead :-)

Mary

Owain



  #22   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Guy King" wrote in message
...


While I was on holiday the neighbour who I asked to put out bin out
forgot. Since we had fortnightly collections here it'll be nearly a
month since it was last emptied.

Good job we've got a compost heap!


?

If there's stuff in your bin which is compostable it should have been
compostedt rather than put in the bin.

Mary


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

While I was on holiday the neighbour who I asked to put out bin out
forgot. Since we had fortnightly collections here it'll be nearly a
month since it was last emptied.

Good job we've got a compost heap!


?


If there's stuff in your bin which is compostable it should have been
compostedt rather than put in the bin.


That's why I said it's a good job we've got a compost heap - that's why
the bin is still approachable after 4 weeks.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Mary Fisher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights


"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

While I was on holiday the neighbour who I asked to put out bin out
forgot. Since we had fortnightly collections here it'll be nearly a
month since it was last emptied.

Good job we've got a compost heap!


?


If there's stuff in your bin which is compostable it should have been
compostedt rather than put in the bin.


That's why I said it's a good job we've got a compost heap - that's why
the bin is still approachable after 4 weeks.


Oh I see, I thought you meant that there was stuff in there which was
beginning to degrade.

I apologise.

Make the most of it :-)

Mary


  #25   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Jason
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low energy lamps in security lights - Thanks!

Just a quick note to say thanks to everyone who answered my post.

Cheers

Jason


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Energy saving lamps [email protected] UK diy 5 December 31st 05 03:28 AM
Best cable for outside security lights? richard UK diy 2 October 8th 05 12:34 PM
Security Lights Ray Home Repair 14 March 28th 05 03:19 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"