I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and replace
10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me quotes, one as
high as £4500. One however told me to go to B and Q and pick up a
Ravenheat boiler pack - 87,000 BTU 11 litres per second, complete with
7 radiators ( and thermostatic valves ). Factor in the extra three rads
I need and the 10% OAP discount, it seems I can get the whole lot for
pretty much bang on a grand.

Does any one have experience of these packs. The price seems great, but
what of the quality. I haven't heard Ravenheat.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:57:15 -0800, JavaEnquirer wrote:

I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and replace
10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me quotes, one as
high as £4500. One however told me to go to B and Q and pick up a
Ravenheat boiler pack - 87,000 BTU 11 litres per second, complete with
7 radiators ( and thermostatic valves ). Factor in the extra three rads
I need and the 10% OAP discount, it seems I can get the whole lot for
pretty much bang on a grand.

Does any one have experience of these packs. The price seems great, but
what of the quality. I haven't heard Ravenheat.

How long do you want the boiler to last? Ravenheat are certainly cheaper
than, say, Worcester-Bosch or Vaillant but it's like whether you buy, say,
a Bosch, Siemens or Miele washing machine rather than a cheaper brand. The
cheaper model _may_ last as long and require as little repair, and when it
packs up you just buy a new one and the suppliers will bring it round and
install it for you for little or no extra cost. However replacing a boiler
is much more expensive (apart from the cost of the boiler itself) so I'd
really suggest getting a good one despite the extra cost.

At the moment Worcester-Bosch and Vaillant (and maybe Gloworm?) seem to be
mainstream manufacturers with good products whereas the traditional safe
buys Potterton and possibly Ideal have rather tarnished reputations in
recent years. I'll put on my fireproof overalls now as there's likely to
be a flame war starting :-)

John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:57:15 -0800, JavaEnquirer wrote:

I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as £4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack - 87,000 BTU 11 litres per
second, complete with 7 radiators ( and thermostatic valves ).
Factor in the extra three rads I need and the 10% OAP discount, it
seems I can get the whole lot for pretty much bang on a grand.

Does any one have experience of these packs. The price seems great,
but what of the quality. I haven't heard Ravenheat.

How long do you want the boiler to last? Ravenheat are certainly
cheaper than, say, Worcester-Bosch or Vaillant but it's like whether
you buy, say, a Bosch, Siemens or Miele washing machine rather than a
cheaper brand. The cheaper model _may_ last as long and require as
little repair, and when it packs up you just buy a new one and the
suppliers will bring it round and install it for you for little or no
extra cost. However replacing a boiler is much more expensive (apart
from the cost of the boiler itself) so I'd really suggest getting a
good one despite the extra cost.

At the moment Worcester-Bosch and Vaillant (and maybe Gloworm?) seem
to be mainstream manufacturers with good products whereas the
traditional safe buys Potterton and possibly Ideal have rather
tarnished reputations in recent years. I'll put on my fireproof
overalls now as there's likely to be a flame war starting :-)

all good advice, the biasi boilers at B&Q are also worth a punt.
given the savings to be had at B&Q the OP could make, it would
not be too daft to build in the /potential/ cost of a new boiler in 6
years time, *if* a "cheap" boiler *does* fail, which is unlikely.

most plumbers I know buy heating packs from B&Q due to the price.
seems that merchants can't match the buying power of B&Q.

if the OP can wait until easter I'm certain that there will be a 20%
off everything special offer which will bring the price right down.
and he would be advised to get the honest plumber who told him
about B&Q to install the system. see if he will take £750 cash for
the install, if he does, go for it.

hth

A lot of the plumbers I've spoken to also mention Baxi, I thought these
were well respected too, but presumably not as much as Worcester-Bosch
and Vaillant.

Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as £4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and the
plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:12:54 -0800, JavaEnquirer wrote:

A lot of the plumbers I've spoken to also mention Baxi, I thought these
were well respected too, but presumably not as much as Worcester-Bosch
and Vaillant.

Sorry forgot to mention: they're part of Potterton now and AFAIK share
their current reputation for lack of reliability.

TBH it's a bad time to be replacing a boiler: prices of good condensing
boilers are still almost as high as when they were a premium choice, and
of course most of the condensing boilers on the market are fairly new
so it's quite possible that, say, Worcester-Bosch's new condensing
range may have problems much as Potterton's recent standard-efficiency
designs have.

.. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and the
plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's
fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

.. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's
fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

addendum: in fact, I'd say that B&Q's returns policy is far *better* than
any merchants /because/ of the fact that there are no 'experts' there
who are able to contradict a customer. every time I've returned anything
the B&Q the young lady at the dedicated returns desk has only been
interested in the reciept and not the reason for return.

think about it.

.. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's
fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

The problem is not that B&Q, or the plumber are dishonest.
The problem is that if it goes wrong, there is no clear liable party.

If you hand the plumber the money, and say "build me a central heating
system", then it's entirely his problem if it doesn't work.
If his suppliers claim that the heating doesn't work properly due to his
installation, that's his responsability.
If you buy the bits, and hand it to him, it can end up with no clear
responsibility on who should get your heating working.

Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and
Q and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the
plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

The problem is not that B&Q, or the plumber are dishonest.
The problem is that if it goes wrong, there is no clear liable party.

of course there is. the OP calls the plumber and the plumber calls B&Q

If you hand the plumber the money, and say "build me a central heating
system", then it's entirely his problem if it doesn't work.
If his suppliers claim that the heating doesn't work properly due to
his installation, that's his responsability.
If you buy the bits, and hand it to him, it can end up with no clear
responsibility on who should get your heating working.

only in a pessimistic (glass half empty) world. the OPs plumber was
honest enough to point the OP to B&Q for a heat pack so I would
optimistically (glass half full) suggest that the plumber is on the level.

you may think differently but in the absence of any evidence I'l stay
on the sunny side of the street and advise the OP to do the same ;-)

.. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and
Q and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the
plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

The problem is not that B&Q, or the plumber are dishonest.
The problem is that if it goes wrong, there is no clear liable party.

of course there is. the OP calls the plumber and the plumber calls B&Q

And (potentially) B&Q says it's the plumbers fault, whereas the plumber
says it's B&Qs fault.
Then what do you do?

Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving
me quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to
B and Q and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong
and the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the
plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able
to assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed
correctly.

the same can be said for any of the merchants/suppliers I've used
but, ateotd, a defective part is a defective part. (me)

The problem is not that B&Q, or the plumber are dishonest.
The problem is that if it goes wrong, there is no clear liable
party.

of course there is. the OP calls the plumber and the plumber calls
B&Q

And (potentially) B&Q says it's the plumbers fault, whereas the
plumber says it's B&Qs fault.
Then what do you do?

the install _will_ go fine and the boiler would run flawlessly for a number of
years* and the OP can spend the money saved on a back up service
plan when the standard warranty of the boiler runs out.

cheer up, Ian.


*the most likely scenario

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:12:54 -0800, JavaEnquirer wrote:

A lot of the plumbers I've spoken to also mention Baxi, I thought these
were well respected too, but presumably not as much as Worcester-Bosch
and Vaillant.

Sorry forgot to mention: they're part of Potterton now and AFAIK share
their current reputation for lack of reliability.

TBH it's a bad time to be replacing a boiler: prices of good condensing
boilers are still almost as high as when they were a premium choice, and
of course most of the condensing boilers on the market are fairly new
so it's quite possible that, say, Worcester-Bosch's new condensing
range may have problems much as Potterton's recent standard-efficiency
designs have.




I think you'll find that Potterton are a part of Baxi - Baxi
bought Potterton when Blue Circle Industries put them up for sale.

Sorry for being pedantic...

--
Regards,

Will.

Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and the
plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

It's between the plumber and the boiler manufacturer, not B&Q.

My experience with manufacturers, just with self-installs, has been
very good. Always helpful and willing to overlook small mistakes.

To the OP, I'd have a look at the Biasi boilers rather than Ravenheat.
B&Q also do them.

wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Owain wrote:
JavaEnquirer wrote:
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and
replace 10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me
quotes, one as high as ?4500. One however told me to go to B and Q
and pick up a Ravenheat boiler pack

The problem doing it this way would be if something goes wrong and
the plumber says it's a boiler fault and B&Q say it's the
plumber's fault.

a plumber honest enough to point the OP towards a heat pack
from B&Q is unlikely to lie about a faulty part. (yoda)

Wheras B&Q never lie, and are complete experts on plumbing, able to
assess, simply on looking at you, if it's been installed correctly.

It's between the plumber and the boiler manufacturer, not B&Q.

My experience with manufacturers, just with self-installs, has been
very good. Always helpful and willing to overlook small mistakes.

To the OP, I'd have a look at the Biasi boilers rather than Ravenheat.
B&Q also do them.

I've got a biasi, with the 20% off bonanza I got it and the flue for about
£450 and bunged BiL £100 to hook it up and do a drop test , I mean do
a "tightness test" and sign it off. mostly stainless workings, cheap,
efficient and very quiet.

recommended

I bought the ravenheat boiler from B&Q in Feb this year. I had already
replaced my radiators so I did not go for the pack option (but it is a very
good deal.
I installed the boiler myself (no, I'm NOT Corgi registered and NO the law
does not require me to be Corgi registered to install a boiler in my own
property). The fitting was simple and the improvements were instant and
amazing.
Cautionary tale:
After 4 weeks, the boiler stopped working. I contacted B&Q and said that I
would take a replacement boiler rather than have my money back. They came up
with all kinds of ****, saying that because I had fitted the boiler myself
blah blah. Up shot is I now have 5 years parts and labour service from
Ravenheat (they ended up comming out to identify the breakdown and went
straight to replacing the main fan, this suggests that its a common problem)
and I got compensation from B&Q for the actions of an idiot of a manager (so
push them hard)
B&Q prices are great (they are in a bad state in retail sales) and the
Ravenheat boiler works fine (but as a company I think they stink). I saved
substantial sums of money doing it myself against quoted prices from the
sharks that swim in the sea they call "plumbers"
Do it!!
"JavaEnquirer" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking to upgrade my old boiler to a condensing combi and replace
10 radiators. I've had a number of plumbers in giving me quotes, one as
high as £4500. One however told me to go to B and Q and pick up a
Ravenheat boiler pack - 87,000 BTU 11 litres per second, complete with
7 radiators ( and thermostatic valves ). Factor in the extra three rads
I need and the 10% OAP discount, it seems I can get the whole lot for
pretty much bang on a grand.

Does any one have experience of these packs. The price seems great, but
what of the quality. I haven't heard Ravenheat.

In message , Keith D
writes
I bought the ravenheat boiler from B&Q in Feb this year. I had already
replaced my radiators so I did not go for the pack option (but it is a very
good deal.


Does any one have experience of these packs. The price seems great, but
what of the quality. I haven't heard Ravenheat.

When one talks about quality, the word Ravenheat doesn't immediately
spring to mind

--
geoff

Keith D wrote:
I bought the ravenheat boiler from B&Q in Feb this year. I had already
replaced my radiators so I did not go for the pack option (but it is a very
good deal.
I installed the boiler myself (no, I'm NOT Corgi registered and NO the law
does not require me to be Corgi registered to install a boiler in my own
property). The fitting was simple and the improvements were instant and
amazing.
Cautionary tale:
After 4 weeks, the boiler stopped working. I contacted B&Q and said that I
would take a replacement boiler rather than have my money back. They came up
with all kinds of ****, saying that because I had fitted the boiler myself
blah blah. Up shot is I now have 5 years parts and labour service from
Ravenheat (they ended up comming out to identify the breakdown and went
straight to replacing the main fan, this suggests that its a common problem)
and I got compensation from B&Q for the actions of an idiot of a manager (so
push them hard)
B&Q prices are great (they are in a bad state in retail sales) and the
Ravenheat boiler works fine (but as a company I think they stink). I saved
substantial sums of money doing it myself against quoted prices from the
sharks that swim in the sea they call "plumbers"
Do it!!

You're very lucky IMO. If I was B&Q I wouldn't have offered a
replacement either. The usual practice is to contact the manufacturer
and they will send an engineer out to rectify the fault, if they can't
solve it on the phone.
Why go through the hassle of removing the boiler and installing another
when you can sit back and let the manufacturers sort it?

On 1 May 2006 08:57:09 -0700, wrote:


Keith D wrote:
I bought the ravenheat boiler from B&Q in Feb this year. I had already
replaced my radiators so I did not go for the pack option (but it is a very
good deal.
I installed the boiler myself (no, I'm NOT Corgi registered and NO the law
does not require me to be Corgi registered to install a boiler in my own
property). The fitting was simple and the improvements were instant and
amazing.
Cautionary tale:
After 4 weeks, the boiler stopped working. I contacted B&Q and said that I
would take a replacement boiler rather than have my money back. They came up
with all kinds of ****, saying that because I had fitted the boiler myself
blah blah. Up shot is I now have 5 years parts and labour service from
Ravenheat (they ended up comming out to identify the breakdown and went
straight to replacing the main fan, this suggests that its a common problem)
and I got compensation from B&Q for the actions of an idiot of a manager (so
push them hard)
B&Q prices are great (they are in a bad state in retail sales) and the
Ravenheat boiler works fine (but as a company I think they stink). I saved
substantial sums of money doing it myself against quoted prices from the
sharks that swim in the sea they call "plumbers"
Do it!!

You're very lucky IMO. If I was B&Q I wouldn't have offered a
replacement either. The usual practice is to contact the manufacturer
and they will send an engineer out to rectify the fault, if they can't
solve it on the phone.
Why go through the hassle of removing the boiler and installing another
when you can sit back and let the manufacturers sort it?

What is "usual practice"?

He bought an item from a retail store that was defective. The
manufacturer could have denied any responsibility, because they didn't
sell him the boiler directly.

His recourse in law is with B&Q, not the manufacturer.

He followed the normal practice for a consumer purchase and was
rejected by the vendor, which is against the consumer law in this
country.

EricP wrote:
On 1 May 2006 08:57:09 -0700, wrote:


Keith D wrote:
I bought the ravenheat boiler from B&Q in Feb this year. I had already
replaced my radiators so I did not go for the pack option (but it is a very
good deal.
I installed the boiler myself (no, I'm NOT Corgi registered and NO the law
does not require me to be Corgi registered to install a boiler in my own
property). The fitting was simple and the improvements were instant and
amazing.
Cautionary tale:
After 4 weeks, the boiler stopped working. I contacted B&Q and said that I
would take a replacement boiler rather than have my money back. They came up
with all kinds of ****, saying that because I had fitted the boiler myself
blah blah. Up shot is I now have 5 years parts and labour service from
Ravenheat (they ended up comming out to identify the breakdown and went
straight to replacing the main fan, this suggests that its a common problem)
and I got compensation from B&Q for the actions of an idiot of a manager (so
push them hard)
B&Q prices are great (they are in a bad state in retail sales) and the
Ravenheat boiler works fine (but as a company I think they stink). I saved
substantial sums of money doing it myself against quoted prices from the
sharks that swim in the sea they call "plumbers"
Do it!!

You're very lucky IMO. If I was B&Q I wouldn't have offered a
replacement either. The usual practice is to contact the manufacturer
and they will send an engineer out to rectify the fault, if they can't
solve it on the phone.
Why go through the hassle of removing the boiler and installing another
when you can sit back and let the manufacturers sort it?

What is "usual practice"?

He bought an item from a retail store that was defective. The
manufacturer could have denied any responsibility, because they didn't
sell him the boiler directly.

That's hardly likely.


His recourse in law is with B&Q, not the manufacturer.

Fine, if you want to waste your time.


He followed the normal practice for a consumer purchase and was
rejected by the vendor, which is against the consumer law in this
country.

On 1 May 2006 09:31:19 -0700, wrote:


You're very lucky IMO. If I was B&Q I wouldn't have offered a
replacement either. The usual practice is to contact the manufacturer
and they will send an engineer out to rectify the fault, if they can't
solve it on the phone.
Why go through the hassle of removing the boiler and installing another
when you can sit back and let the manufacturers sort it?

What is "usual practice"?

He bought an item from a retail store that was defective. The
manufacturer could have denied any responsibility, because they didn't
sell him the boiler directly.

That's hardly likely.


His recourse in law is with B&Q, not the manufacturer.

Fine, if you want to waste your time.


He followed the normal practice for a consumer purchase and was
rejected by the vendor, which is against the consumer law in this
country.

You don't have the faintest idea about Sale of Good Acts and such do
you! )

Never mind, I don't have time to play with you. Bye. )

EricP wrote:
On 1 May 2006 09:31:19 -0700, wrote:


You're very lucky IMO. If I was B&Q I wouldn't have offered a
replacement either. The usual practice is to contact the manufacturer
and they will send an engineer out to rectify the fault, if they can't
solve it on the phone.
Why go through the hassle of removing the boiler and installing another
when you can sit back and let the manufacturers sort it?

What is "usual practice"?

He bought an item from a retail store that was defective. The
manufacturer could have denied any responsibility, because they didn't
sell him the boiler directly.

That's hardly likely.


His recourse in law is with B&Q, not the manufacturer.

Fine, if you want to waste your time.


He followed the normal practice for a consumer purchase and was
rejected by the vendor, which is against the consumer law in this
country.

You don't have the faintest idea about Sale of Good Acts and such do
you! )


This isn't alt.uk.law or about the semantics of the sale of goods act.
This is about installing a boiler, problems and the REAL world,
something you obviously have no idea about.

In your world a problem with a self installed boiler is the same as a
faulty power drill.

I never said B&Q didn't bear responsibility for problems with the
boiler, just that it was normal/better practice to contact the boiler
manufacturer first and get it resolved.

Never mind, I don't have time to play with you. Bye. )

No, you don't have an answer so you play the smug card with your
smilies. Pat yourself on the back.