Not really up on this, i can plumb a central heating system in but I just
phoned someone who is having CH installed by EAGA gov grant funding and
what i can gather is 5 Rads,Combi boiler, and a wireless themostat is to be
installed.
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
...
Not really up on this, i can plumb a central heating system in but I just
phoned someone who is having CH installed by EAGA gov grant funding and
what i can gather is 5 Rads,Combi boiler, and a wireless themostat is to
be
installed.
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




Don't know why but in my 3 houses they have always been in the hall.

--
Steve

Remove "nospam" from email address to reply to me personally

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:54:05 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

|Not really up on this, i can plumb a central heating system in but I just
|phoned someone who is having CH installed by EAGA gov grant funding and
|what i can gather is 5 Rads,Combi boiler, and a wireless themostat is tobe
|installed.
|I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
|positioning the thermostat in the hallway.
|
|Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

Because heat from all the house convects there, so it is affected by all
the rads which probably have TRVs fitted. So it senses approximately the
average temperature of the house. In my case the unTRVed radiator will be
in the hall, so if the hall gets too hot the boiler switches off.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

It is traditional because when central heating was originally installed,
people often still had additional heating in the lounge. You can't put the
thermostat in the same room as an additional heater (i.e. gas/solid fire) as
it will fool the system into making the rest of the house cold.

However, Luddite plumbers still put the stat in the hallway even though
people haven't installed ugly gas fires since the 1970s.

The room that the stat in has the most comfortable and reliable heating, so
you want it to be the most frequently used room. You need to balance it and
choose the radiators such that it is the slowest room in the zone to heat up
so that the other rooms' TRVs close off whilst the boiler is still firing.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

It is traditional because when central heating was originally installed,
people often still had additional heating in the lounge. You can't put the
thermostat in the same room as an additional heater (i.e. gas/solid fire)
as
it will fool the system into making the rest of the house cold.

However, Luddite plumbers still put the stat in the hallway even though
people haven't installed ugly gas fires since the 1970s.

The room that the stat in has the most comfortable and reliable heating,
so
you want it to be the most frequently used room. You need to balance it
and
choose the radiators such that it is the slowest room in the zone to heat
up
so that the other rooms' TRVs close off whilst the boiler is still firing.

Don't use terms like Luddite then ignore current standards and the option of
employing TRVs g

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they
are positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

It is traditional because when central heating was originally
installed, people often still had additional heating in the lounge.
You can't put the thermostat in the same room as an additional heater
(i.e. gas/solid fire) as it will fool the system into making the rest
of the house cold.


.....and why are boilers often installed in the kitchen?


John

In article ,
john wrote:
....and why are boilers often installed in the kitchen?

Because it already has a gas and water supply?

Mine is in the (large) bathroom where any excess heat is welcome. It's not
in a working kitchen.

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they are
positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?


It's very convenient for the householder to adjust the controls in the hall
rather than in any other part of the house.

Mary

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:29:53 +0000, The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Christian McArdle wrote:
I'm a bit mystified as to what he told me over the phone that they
are positioning the thermostat in the hallway.

Can somebody enlighten me as to why the hallway of all places?

It is traditional because when central heating was originally
installed, people often still had additional heating in the lounge.
You can't put the thermostat in the same room as an additional heater
(i.e. gas/solid fire) as it will fool the system into making the rest
of the house cold.

However, Luddite plumbers still put the stat in the hallway even
though people haven't installed ugly gas fires since the 1970s.

The room that the stat in has the most comfortable and reliable
heating, so you want it to be the most frequently used room. You need
to balance it and choose the radiators such that it is the slowest
room in the zone to heat up so that the other rooms' TRVs close off
whilst the boiler is still firing.

Christian.

Thanks for that.
He was a bit miffed at having it in the hall and I suggested sticking a
picture over it. ;-)

As with all these matters there is a mixture of personal preferences,
regulations, common practice and existing arrangements to be taken into
account.

Very often living rooms do have an additional source of heat (various
forms of display or real fires, say). Also the living room might be one
that is subject to a substantial solar gain. [Imagine -5C outside and a
totally cloudless sky with the sun nearly horizontal straight in through
the large patio window?]

I totally agree with Christian about the need to make sure that the area
governed by the thermostat is a bit slower than the rest of the house/zone
to warm up.

A big advantage is that the heating control in the hall is right to hand
whe you come in. (I think it's "Luddite" to still be using separate time
and temperature controls! Ferreting around in utility cupboard or under
kitchen units to switch the heating on.

Sometimes the wiring is already in place to the hallway.

My MIL, aged 90, has the thermostat in the living room and a display gas
fire, the rest of the house gets cold when the fire is in use (which she
likes to use).


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:59 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


|A big advantage is that the heating control in the hall is right to hand
|whe you come in. (I think it's "Luddite" to still be using separate time
|and temperature controls! Ferreting around in utility cupboard or under
|kitchen units to switch the heating on.

It is always possible to turn the thermostat down to say 5 deg C so that it
acts as a frost stat rather than turning the heating off.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

"Ed Sirett" wrote
As with all these matters there is a mixture of personal preferences,
regulations, common practice and existing arrangements to be taken into
account.

Very often living rooms do have an additional source of heat (various
forms of display or real fires, say). Also the living room might be one
that is subject to a substantial solar gain. [Imagine -5C outside and a
totally cloudless sky with the sun nearly horizontal straight in through
the large patio window?]

I totally agree with Christian about the need to make sure that the area
governed by the thermostat is a bit slower than the rest of the house/zone
to warm up.

A big advantage is that the heating control in the hall is right to hand
whe you come in. (I think it's "Luddite" to still be using separate time
and temperature controls! Ferreting around in utility cupboard or under
kitchen units to switch the heating on.

Sometimes the wiring is already in place to the hallway.

My MIL, aged 90, has the thermostat in the living room and a display gas
fire, the rest of the house gets cold when the fire is in use (which she
likes to use).


Another thing to consider, apart from additional heating appliances and
solar gain, is other heating sources. Each warm body is reckoned to be 300W,
then you've got all the lighting in a lounge, not to mention TVs etc. All
these can conspire to make the lounge warmer and the rest of the house cold.


Steve S

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:37:57 GMT, "Steve S" wrote:

| Each warm body is reckoned to be 300W,
|then you've got all the lighting in a lounge, not to mention TVs etc. All
|these can conspire to make the lounge warmer and the rest of the house cold.

The figure for watching TV is about 100 watts. 300 watts is someone doing
vigorous exercise continuously. Now what vigorous exercise do *you* do
in the lounge ;-)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

....and why are boilers often installed in the kitchen?

Because it already has a gas and water supply?

It is also a room that can accept a certain noise level without comment. A
utility room is even better. Mine's in the loft which would be an excellent
place for it if it wasn't taking the place that my bed should be after the
conversion...

Christian.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Not really up on this, i can plumb a central heating system in but I just
phoned someone who is having CH installed by EAGA gov grant funding and
what i can gather is 5 Rads,Combi boiler, and a wireless themostat is to be
installed.


If its a wireless thermostat can't your friend move it, within reason ?

If its a wireless thermostat can't your friend move it, within reason ?

Yes, although you may also need to move a TRV from the new location to the
hallway.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:59 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


A big advantage is that the heating control in the hall is right to
hand whe you come in. (I think it's "Luddite" to still be using
separate time and temperature controls! Ferreting around in utility
cupboard or under kitchen units to switch the heating on.

It is always possible to turn the thermostat down to say 5 deg C so
that it acts as a frost stat rather than turning the heating off.

Not unless you alter the wiring! If you *just* turn the stat down, the
heating will *only* come on when the temperature falls below 5 degrees -
which is unlikely to be acceptable!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:11:21 -0000, "Set Square" wrote:

|In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:17:59 +0000, Ed Sirett
| wrote:
|
|
| A big advantage is that the heating control in the hall is right to
| hand whe you come in. (I think it's "Luddite" to still be using
| separate time and temperature controls! Ferreting around in utility
| cupboard or under kitchen units to switch the heating on.
|
| It is always possible to turn the thermostat down to say 5 deg C so
| that it acts as a frost stat rather than turning the heating off.
|
|Not unless you alter the wiring! If you *just* turn the stat down, the
|heating will *only* come on when the temperature falls below 5 degrees -
|which is unlikely to be acceptable!

In other words turning it down to 5 deg C is the same as turning it off
most of the year.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote
The figure for watching TV is about 100 watts. 300 watts is someone doing
vigorous exercise continuously. Now what vigorous exercise do *you* do
in the lounge ;-)

Got the figure off some official website somewhere. A simple calculation
should have told me that it is a bogus figure. :-(.

The fact remains, though, that a combination of warm bodies, appliances and
lighting can easily conspire to make a lounge an unsuitable place for a
thermostat My own data show this quite clearly. I've been monitoring hall
and lounge temperatures. During the daytime, while I'm in my office upstairs
and the lounge is unoccupied, the lounge temperature is maintained at around
20.7 C. The radiators (with TRV) come on from time to time, but are clearly
not at full bore. During the evening, with 3 or 4 of us in there with the
telly and lights on, the temperature creeps up to 21.6 (or higher,
sometimes) with little or no heat output from the radiators. And before
someone asks, no, the room is not hermetically sealed :-)

Steve S

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:11:21 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:


Not unless you alter the wiring! If you *just* turn the stat down,
the heating will *only* come on when the temperature falls below 5
degrees - which is unlikely to be acceptable!

In other words turning it down to 5 deg C is the same as turning it
off most of the year.

Precisely - which is sod-all use to the OP and thus a total waste of time
suggesting it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Christian McArdle" wrote:
The room that the stat in has the most comfortable and reliable heating,
so
you want it to be the most frequently used room. You need to balance it
and
choose the radiators such that it is the slowest room in the zone to heat
up
so that the other rooms' TRVs close off whilst the boiler is still firing.


I think there is one snag with this. The setup you describe is fine for a
given temperature setpoint. Assume we have reached our setpoint. All rooms
are now up to temperature. We now wish to go out for the day and knock the
temperature back. I think that what will happen is that the rooms without
thermostat but with TRVs will be warmer than we want, and with the expected
savings in fuel not being achieved. Using the standard way of balancing, to
try to achieve an equal rate of heating in each room, is only way I can
think getting round this, apart from using zone valves throughout.

Mind you, my sleep deprived brain might have led me to conceptual errors
here ;-)

Steve S

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Steve S wrote:


I think there is one snag with this. The setup you describe is fine
for a given temperature setpoint. Assume we have reached our
setpoint. All rooms are now up to temperature. We now wish to go out
for the day and knock the temperature back. I think that what will
happen is that the rooms without thermostat but with TRVs will be
warmer than we want, and with the expected savings in fuel not being
achieved.

Not necessarily. If the stat is set low, the heating may not come on at all
because it will take a while for the house to cool below the lower setting.
If it *does* come on, it will only do so sufficiently to bring the room with
the stat up to the reduced stat setting. The other rooms will get a bit
warm - but probably not sufficiently so for their TRVs to operate - so the
fact that the TRVs are set higher than you want under these circumstances is
probably not relevant.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote :

Not necessarily. If the stat is set low, the heating may not come on at
all because it will take a while for the house to cool below the lower
setting. If it *does* come on, it will only do so sufficiently to bring
the room with the stat up to the reduced stat setting. The other rooms
will get a bit warm - but probably not sufficiently so for their TRVs to
operate - so the fact that the TRVs are set higher than you want under
these circumstances is probably not relevant.

The point I was trying to make, though, is that when the house has cooled
down to the lower setting, then whenever there is demand it is likely to be
with the TRVs at full bore. The energy usage is therefore higher than
necessary.

Steve S

"Steve S" wrote in message
...

"Set Square" wrote :

Not necessarily. If the stat is set low, the heating may not come on at
all because it will take a while for the house to cool below the lower
setting. If it *does* come on, it will only do so sufficiently to bring
the room with the stat up to the reduced stat setting. The other rooms
will get a bit warm - but probably not sufficiently so for their TRVs to
operate - so the fact that the TRVs are set higher than you want under
these circumstances is probably not relevant.

The point I was trying to make, though, is that when the house has cooled
down to the lower setting, then whenever there is demand it is likely to
be with the TRVs at full bore. The energy usage is therefore higher than
necessary.

Are you overlooking the point that when the stat is not calling for heat
"none" of the rads get heat?

Get TRVs throughout. Replace one head with the decorating cap and swap
decorating cap and trv head if moving wireless stat (or just leave TRV on
max
in room with wireless stat - it needs excercise theough.)

Of course, a decorating cap would leave the radiator full off, unless not
screwed on properly. However, many TRV ranges do have a lockshield head that
can replace the thermostatic head.

Christian.

"John" wrote

Are you overlooking the point that when the stat is not calling for heat
"none" of the rads get heat?

Not at all. It really depends of how far you lower the thermostat and how
long it is at that lower setting. Let's assume that the system is set up and
balanced such that the room without TRV, and with thermostat is the slowest
to reach desired temperature, as described by Christian.

We start at the 'steady state' with all rooms up to temp. TRV's will now be
pretty much closed. Maintenance of the setpoint is achieved with flow
through the TRV'd radiators being restricted by the TRVs. There is, over a
period of time, a given amount, say 'x', of energy required to be output by
the boiler.

Now we knock the thermostat back a couple of degrees or so to save gas while
we are out. We want to save some gas, but not let the house get really cold.
During the period of cooldown you are correct. None of the radiators get
heat. Energy usage is nil.

At some point we reach the new (lower) thermostat setpoint and wish to
maintain it until our return. During this period, unless we have adjusted
the TRVs, there will be a greater flow through the TRV'd radiators in an
attempt to maintain the TRV setpoint. The TRV'd rooms will not achieve the
temperature reduction we have requested. Overall, therefore, we have higher
energy usage than might be expected from our lowering of the thermostat
setpoint.

Whether the difference is significant is open to debate. Maybe I'll try some
experiments....

Steve S

The TRV'd rooms will not achieve the temperature reduction we have
requested. Overall, therefore, we have higher energy usage than
might be expected from our lowering of the thermostat setpoint.

It depends on how well set up the system is. If the thermostated room is set
only to be marginally slower to heat than the other rooms, then setting the
thermostat back will be effective. The other rooms would only get a couple
of degrees warmer than the thermostat room.

This is the ideal situation. After all, we don't want the lounge to heat up
too slowly, just slowly enough so that the other rooms get a chance to heat
up before the stat trips.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote :

It depends on how well set up the system is. If the thermostated room is
set
only to be marginally slower to heat than the other rooms, then setting
the
thermostat back will be effective. The other rooms would only get a couple
of degrees warmer than the thermostat room.

This is the ideal situation. After all, we don't want the lounge to heat
up
too slowly, just slowly enough so that the other rooms get a chance to
heat
up before the stat trips.


I guess I'll buy that, although I'd rather have the thermostat in the hall
:-)

Steve S