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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob
above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? David |
#2
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lobster" wrote in message ... Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. My understanding is that a fixed hob cannot be plumbed in with a rubber pipe and must have a copper fixed pipe. Rubber pipes are still allowed on cookers/ranges with wheels ... but a safety chain should be fitted to avoid stressing pipe of the moving unit. |
#3
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
In article ,
Lobster writes: Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? Yes, the hose he used is not "a flexible rubber tubing" (which is indeed not permitted). It is a flexible metal hose with a rubber covering. I would have expected a CORGI to know that. Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#4
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:55:18 +0000, Lobster wrote:
Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
#5
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote: Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. And the gas iron, gas poker, gas lights, and gas oven that my grandparents had in the 1950s. ;-) -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
#6
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:24:25 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. And the gas iron, gas poker, gas lights, and gas oven that my grandparents had in the 1950s. ;-) Speaking of gas pipes, is it stil possible to get brass "gas barrel"? I want to make some replica gas lights (wired for leccy!), and would like to use screwed barrel and fittings. -- Frank Erskine |
#7
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Lobster writes: Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? Yes, the hose he used is not "a flexible rubber tubing" (which is indeed not permitted). It is a flexible metal hose with a rubber covering. I would have expected a CORGI to know that. That would make sense, but you'd maybe expect the instructions to make the distinction between pipe types a bit clearer? Though I have to say that in other respects they are as clear as mud; it took me several reads-through to understand the ventilation requirements! David |
#8
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:24:25 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. And the gas iron, gas poker, gas lights, and gas oven that my grandparents had in the 1950s. ;-) And loads of portable camping stoves / bbq's / blowtorches in the 00's ;-) (Well, probably not 'rubber' any more but still 'flexible' something and no steel etc) All the best .. T i m |
#9
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
Lobster wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , Lobster writes: Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven [snip] That would make sense, but you'd maybe expect the instructions to make the distinction between pipe types a bit clearer? Though I have to say that in other respects they are as clear as mud; it took me several reads-through to understand the ventilation requirements! Baumatic instruction books/leaflets are truly diabolically awful, I have a couple. Both the installation instructions and the user instructions are equally flawed. The examples I can remember from our dishwasher instructions a- Dishwasher installation - it tells you to adjust the door closure and tells you how the catch can be moved back and forth. However it doesn't tell you how to judge when it's correctly adjusted. Dishwasher use - it has a list of the dishwasher programs (there are eight) which have descriptions like 'heavy', 'very hot', 'severe' etc. but absolutely no indication of whether 'severe' is stronger or less strong than 'heavy' for example. The programs are not in 'strength' order either, they appear to be entirely random so it's completely impossible to decide their relative washing power. The only way to guess, approximately, is by their duration. -- Chris Green |
#10
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:55:18 GMT, Lobster
wrote: Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? Fixed ovens and hobs MUST be installed with fixed pipework. As the instructions state it's impossible to move a fixed oven to inspect the hose. Moveable cookers can be installed with flexi-hoses. sponix |
#11
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
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#12
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:55:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: Just had a Corgi round to install a built-in Baumatic gas oven with hob above. However, he and I were both scratching our heads over the oven installation instructions, which state: "Warning: the use of a flexible rubber tubing attached to the outlet connector is prohibited because it cannot be inspected". Now given that the gas hob definitely needs to be fitted with fixed pipe work, how the hell can the oven also be fitted that way? There's no way to access the back of the oven. We wondered about the wisdom of making a large access hole in the external wall of the house but that seemed a *tad* like overkill, so the Corgi just fitted the oven in the normal way using a rubber hose/bayonet connector. Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? Fixed ovens and hobs MUST be installed with fixed pipework. As the instructions state it's impossible to move a fixed oven to inspect the hose. Moveable cookers can be installed with flexi-hoses. To fit the oven it is possible to have access via the kickspace void beneath. Fit a pipe on the oven and access this via the kickspace void. A compression joint can be used here for a disconnection device. |
#13
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
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#14
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:54:53 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:24:25 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell wrote: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. And the gas iron, gas poker, gas lights, and gas oven that my grandparents had in the 1950s. ;-) Speaking of gas pipes, is it stil possible to get brass "gas barrel"? I want to make some replica gas lights (wired for leccy!), and would like to use screwed barrel and fittings. yes ask a real PM or look in the BES catalogue. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
#15
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:04:16 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote: On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:54:53 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote: On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:24:25 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell wrote: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: Flexible rubber tubing is what you had on a bunsen burner at school. And the gas iron, gas poker, gas lights, and gas oven that my grandparents had in the 1950s. ;-) Speaking of gas pipes, is it stil possible to get brass "gas barrel"? I want to make some replica gas lights (wired for leccy!), and would like to use screwed barrel and fittings. yes ask a real PM or look in the BES catalogue. Thanks. -- Frank Erskine |
#16
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature |
#17
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:38 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation"
mused: Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. -- | Stuart @ SJW Electrical. Please Reply to group. | |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message ... On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:38 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation" mused: Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I wonder if this is based on the same logic. |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message ... On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:38 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation" mused: Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. -- But if the hose comes into contact with the hot rear metalwork of the oven it can exceed the rated temperature of the Gas hose. I am Corgi registered and fit the appliance's strictly as per the installation instructions, as required by the GAUR. |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:24:35 +0000 (UTC), "John"
mused: I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I wonder if this is based on the same logic. Doubt it as it's a built in oven which doesn't require any extraction and the required kitchen extraction isn't required by CORGI so it has nothing to do with gas ovens. Even if there was extraction in the kitchen it isn't neccesarily over the oven. -- | Stuart @ SJW Electrical. Please Reply to group. | |
#21
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:28:43 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation"
mused: "Lurch" wrote in message .. . On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:38 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation" mused: Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. -- But if the hose comes into contact with the hot rear metalwork of the oven it can exceed the rated temperature of the Gas hose. I am Corgi registered and fit the appliance's strictly as per the installation instructions, as required by the GAUR. The rear of the oven shouldn't get that hot though. Is the above a guess or is that a statement of fact? -- | Stuart @ SJW Electrical. Please Reply to group. | |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
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#23
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message ... On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:28:43 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation" mused: "Lurch" wrote in message .. . On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:38 +0000 (UTC), "powerstation" mused: Bizzarre or what? Anyone able to shed any light on this? I've only fitted one gas oven and I used a flexible connection that was a few years back. However I do note that the safety guidelines as found in some recent (2005) gas fitting texts state that rigid pipework is to be used. The only way I can think this might be achievable is to make the service isolator accessible in an adjacent cupboard (say). Then make a compression joint behind the oven accessible from an adjacent cupboard. Thus the pipe can be disconnected and the oven removed. I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. -- But if the hose comes into contact with the hot rear metalwork of the oven it can exceed the rated temperature of the Gas hose. I am Corgi registered and fit the appliance's strictly as per the installation instructions, as required by the GAUR. The rear of the oven shouldn't get that hot though. Is the above a guess or is that a statement of fact? -- FACT The regulations state the hose should not come into contact with hot surfaces or exceed its temperature limit, that is fact. "The rear of the oven shouldn't get that hot though" that IS a guess isn't it ? Have you got access to the manufactures test data, are you prepared to leave it on full heat for hours in the summer, then measure it, if not you must follow their installation instructions, which do not permit the use of a flexible gas hose, period. |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message ... On or around Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:24:35 +0000 (UTC), "John" mused: I really need more info why the flexible hose is not permitted here. Temperature Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I wonder if this is based on the same logic. Doubt it as it's a built in oven which doesn't require any extraction and the required kitchen extraction isn't required by CORGI so it has nothing to do with gas ovens. Even if there was extraction in the kitchen it isn't neccesarily over the oven. I'm thinking along the lines of a wood/chipboard top to the unit possibly with a gap at rear. Moving the oven forward "might" result in the heat from the oven vent being under the top, unless the vent is hidden in a grille at the front. As many kitchen units are fully enclosed at the rear presumably any manufacturer will have been asked this point before and maybe a question to them might be better than asking us to guess from here. |
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Rob Morley" wrote in message t... In article , says... IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I'd have thought that screwing it to the floor would have been a better solution. What about things not sitting on a floor? |
#26
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
In article ,
powerstation wrote: Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. But if the hose comes into contact with the hot rear metalwork of the oven it can exceed the rated temperature of the Gas hose. I am Corgi registered and fit the appliance's strictly as per the installation instructions, as required by the GAUR. So are you saying the insulation on a built in oven is poorer than on a freestanding cooker where a flexible connection is allowed? -- *Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#27
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , powerstation wrote: Nope. If it got that hot around the oven then surely the worktops and adjecant units would have to be of some non-flammable construction. But if the hose comes into contact with the hot rear metalwork of the oven it can exceed the rated temperature of the Gas hose. I am Corgi registered and fit the appliance's strictly as per the installation instructions, as required by the GAUR. So are you saying the insulation on a built in oven is poorer than on a freestanding cooker where a flexible connection is allowed? -- I am saying the connection must be made in accordance with the instructions supplied, this is why no new gas appliance (or second hand) can be installed by law without installation instructions being available to the installer, simple as that. New free standing appliances normally have measurements for position for the bayonet on the wall, so that the hose hangs in a specific place on the rear away from the hottest parts of the appliance and so as not to touch the floor when the appliance is in place. This wouldn't be possible with an oven because you cannot see it with the oven in place. |
#28
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On or around Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:35:28 +0000 (UTC), "John"
mused: "Rob Morley" wrote in message et... In article , says... IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I'd have thought that screwing it to the floor would have been a better solution. What about things not sitting on a floor? They must be fitted to something, I haven't seen a levitating cooking appliance yet, domestic or commercial. -- | Stuart @ SJW Electrical. Please Reply to group. | |
#29
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message news On or around Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:35:28 +0000 (UTC), "John" mused: "Rob Morley" wrote in message . net... In article , says... IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I'd have thought that screwing it to the floor would have been a better solution. What about things not sitting on a floor? They must be fitted to something, I haven't seen a levitating cooking appliance yet, domestic or commercial. Immediately to mind I have seen water boilers and freestanding grills positioned on top of stainless steel catering kitchen furniture (table type worktops) with a vent hood above and piped in rigid pipe so no-one could slide them around and end up not under the hood. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't so:-) |
#30
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
On or around Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:47:59 +0000 (UTC), "John"
mused: IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I'd have thought that screwing it to the floor would have been a better solution. What about things not sitting on a floor? They must be fitted to something, I haven't seen a levitating cooking appliance yet, domestic or commercial. Immediately to mind I have seen water boilers and freestanding grills positioned on top of stainless steel catering kitchen furniture (table type worktops) with a vent hood above and piped in rigid pipe so no-one could slide them around and end up not under the hood. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't so:-) Then it is attached to something then isn't it. Just because it isn't on the floor doesn't mean it can't be fixed down. Also, I can't believe that anyone would connect a rigid supply pipe to a non-fixed piece of equipment. This thread is getting dafter by the minute. -- | Stuart @ SJW Electrical. Please Reply to group. | |
#31
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Gas oven - flexible gas pipe NOT allowed!
"Lurch" wrote in message ... On or around Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:47:59 +0000 (UTC), "John" mused: IIRC solid piping was required for some commercial catering equipment to prevent things being moved out from under flue hoods where applicable. I'd have thought that screwing it to the floor would have been a better solution. What about things not sitting on a floor? They must be fitted to something, I haven't seen a levitating cooking appliance yet, domestic or commercial. Immediately to mind I have seen water boilers and freestanding grills positioned on top of stainless steel catering kitchen furniture (table type worktops) with a vent hood above and piped in rigid pipe so no-one could slide them around and end up not under the hood. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't so:-) Then it is attached to something then isn't it. Just because it isn't on the floor doesn't mean it can't be fixed down. Also, I can't believe that anyone would connect a rigid supply pipe to a non-fixed piece of equipment. This thread is getting dafter by the minute. Quite so! You are arguing about something you obviously have no real concept of.. Catering equipment is not domestic, and you obviously don't work in the game so I suggest you drop it. Re the OPs question the best solution is going to be ask the manufacturer of the oven. |
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