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whole house DIY-ish air con ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 13th 05, 04:24 PM
[email protected]
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

Anyone done anything like whole house DIY-ish air con ?
For example, air con unit in loft (meaty one), vents in roof,
DIY ducting around house, to air condition the main rooms of the house.
It strikes me this might be easier than those through-the-wall units in
one or two rooms. Bung a duct down unused chimney breast etc. Might
need booster pumps due to large ducting lengths. Any thoughts ?
Simon.

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  #3  
Old October 14th 05, 10:20 AM
s--p--o--n--i--x
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

On 13 Oct 2005 07:24:31 -0700, wrote:

Anyone done anything like whole house DIY-ish air con ?
For example, air con unit in loft (meaty one), vents in roof,
DIY ducting around house, to air condition the main rooms of the house.
It strikes me this might be easier than those through-the-wall units in
one or two rooms. Bung a duct down unused chimney breast etc. Might
need booster pumps due to large ducting lengths. Any thoughts ?
Simon.


I'd recommend the Xpelair or Olympia range of air conditioners:

http://www.celsiusair.co.uk/equipmen...ir/xpelair.htm

http://www.celsiusair.co.uk/equipmen...ia/olimpia.htm

This system has the advantage that you can install it room-by-room as
finances permit.

It also means that should a unit fail you only loose air conditioning
in that room only. If you have a system with one centralised unit when
that fails you loose cooling for the whole house.

If you ever tried getting an air conditioning engineer out in the
height of summer you'll know what an advantage this is!

I have installed one of these systems so far and they are *really*
effective. Installation takes less than an hour-drill two 6" holes,
fix the aircon unit to the wall, plug in and away you go!

sponix
  #4  
Old October 14th 05, 10:52 AM
Aidan
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

wrote:
Anyone done anything like whole house DIY-ish air con ?


No, one day soon, awaiting round tuits.

For example, air con unit in loft (meaty one), vents in roof,
DIY ducting around house, to air condition the main rooms of the house.


Depends what you mean by "air con".

AC as seen in cars and as delivered by Hitachi split system cassettes
should be more correctly called comfort cooling. Proper AC controls not
only temperature, but also humidity and cleanliness of the air. Mr
Carrier developed AC to control humidity, not temperature. Go google
for more info.

It strikes me this might be easier than those through-the-wall units in
one or two rooms. Bung a duct down unused chimney breast etc.


If you want cooling, and something akin to a conventional AC system
chucking out an icy cold gale, I don't think this is practical. The
duct work needs to be insulated and have a vapour barrier.

Might need booster pumps due to large ducting lengths. Any thoughts?


Fans. I'd suggest you'd need some advice before starting.

IMHO, you can live comfortably without AC in the UK unlike, say, the US
deep south or tropics. It is insidious in that, once you become
accustomed to it in the car or at work, you then start to feel
uncomfortable without it.

If your main aim was warm, clean air & ,possibly, a bit of ccooling, it
is more promising. 'Which' did an investigation of energy savings (I
think, I've been told of this but never seen the report) many years
back & found that whole house ventilation was a major labour saving
device. If the house is supplied with filtered air at a slight positive
pressure, then the ingress of draughts and airborne dirt is greatly
reduced. Routine cleaning is reduced accordingly. You could use a
displacement ventilation system (Google) since these use low velocity
supply air at a smaller differential temperature; this could be
operated to avoid condensation on the ducts, but the ducts should still
be thermally insulated.

Thesw systems are more common in the US, mainly due to more disposable
income I think. Google for "Lifebreath".

  #5  
Old October 15th 05, 10:21 AM
Doctor Drivel
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?


wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyone done anything like whole house DIY-ish air con ?
For example, air con unit in loft (meaty one), vents in roof,
DIY ducting around house, to air condition the main rooms of the house.
It strikes me this might be easier than those through-the-wall units in
one or two rooms. Bung a duct down unused chimney breast etc. Might
need booster pumps due to large ducting lengths. Any thoughts ?
Simon.


Why? There is no need for a/c in the UK if:

- insulation is added (cavity wall, 300mm in the loft)
- the place made more air-tight
- adequate shading in summer (awnings, shutters, deciduous trees, etc)
- adequate ventilation, taking in cooler air from the north side.
- ect

a./c "costs" to run maintain. What you could do is the above points and add
a heat recovery and vent system. But the house must be pretty air tight,
otherwise you are venting twice.

We just don't have the climate for a/c. In other countries no matter what
you do they will need a/c. We just don't have those climates and a cool
building can be had by using a variety of other means.

  #6  
Old October 16th 05, 03:35 PM
John Rumm
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

wrote:

Anyone done anything like whole house DIY-ish air con ?
For example, air con unit in loft (meaty one), vents in roof,
DIY ducting around house, to air condition the main rooms of the house.
It strikes me this might be easier than those through-the-wall units in
one or two rooms. Bung a duct down unused chimney breast etc. Might
need booster pumps due to large ducting lengths. Any thoughts ?


The difficulty with ducting is that it would need to be two way. Air con
is not just about pumping cold air into the room. You also need to
extract the warm moist air since it is the dehumidification that makes a
big difference to the comfort level and not just the temperature.

Getting two sets of insulated ducting to/from each room is going to be
harder.

A split system that uses several internal air handlers connected to a
single external condensor would be a simpler job to install.

I did look into options for doing this (when I had the roof off the
house seemed like the ideal opportunity!) but could not find any multi
way split systems that were avaiable for self install (one or two way
units were available - but four way seemed more elusive). The
"professional" installation often cost more than the hardware costs by a
fair margin! (i.e. an internal heat pump air handler costing 250 quid
say, was often accompanied by an installation charge of 500!). There
also seemed to be a certain amount of "closed shop" mentality going on
as well, in that many suppliers were not keen to supply the kit to
people outside of the HVAC funny handshake club.


--
Cheers,

John.

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  #7  
Old October 16th 05, 05:59 PM
Andrew Gabriel
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
wrote:
The difficulty with ducting is that it would need to be two way. Air con
is not just about pumping cold air into the room. You also need to
extract the warm moist air since it is the dehumidification that makes a
big difference to the comfort level and not just the temperature.

Getting two sets of insulated ducting to/from each room is going to be
harder.


US systems feed into each room, but have a smaller number of common
return ducts, typically from the hallways, kitchen, and bathroom.
Actually, I don't recall any feeds into the kitchens and bathrooms
either -- probably just keep these at negative pressure to avoid
heat, moisture, and smells invading rest of house.

A split system that uses several internal air handlers connected to a
single external condensor would be a simpler job to install.


When I looked at these systems for an office, admittedly some 8
years ago, the multiple evaporator systems could only have a single
thermostat. That made them fine for very large rooms, but not for
multiple rooms. Things maybe different with them nowadays.

I did look into options for doing this (when I had the roof off the
house seemed like the ideal opportunity!) but could not find any multi
way split systems that were avaiable for self install (one or two way
units were available - but four way seemed more elusive). The


I don't know where the crossover point is, but multiple internal
units are more commonly done with fan coil units running from
chilled and heated water circuits. A single outdoor chiller is used
to create the chilled water to drive them (and sometimes the heated
water too, particularly for buildings which need some parts cooling
and other parts heating at the same time).

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #8  
Old October 16th 05, 06:39 PM
John Rumm
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Default whole house DIY-ish air con ?

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

When I looked at these systems for an office, admittedly some 8
years ago, the multiple evaporator systems could only have a single
thermostat. That made them fine for very large rooms, but not for
multiple rooms. Things maybe different with them nowadays.


The ones I saw would let you have different stat temps for each air
handler. The only thing you could not run, was a combination of air con
and heat pump at the same time.

I don't know where the crossover point is, but multiple internal
units are more commonly done with fan coil units running from
chilled and heated water circuits. A single outdoor chiller is used
to create the chilled water to drive them (and sometimes the heated
water too, particularly for buildings which need some parts cooling
and other parts heating at the same time).


I found quite a few split units that worked with conventional
refrigerant circulation (and water outlet) that went up to 4 way with a
single condensor. More than four and there were also some cascaded
condensor arrangements.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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