Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

It will be going into ground that is generally damp, but never flooded
(yet), and I would be most disappointed if it was discovered within
100 years, and ideally I would like it to last a 1000, if not more,
which I realise is probably unrealistic.

Initial thoughts were of some strong galvanised steel waterproof box,
with maybe 100 bin liners individually wrapped and tied around it.
Then I realised that is going for quantity over quality and if I want
it to really last then the box itself is going to have to be the main
barrier.

A few thoughts I'd had about some of the contents would be to seal
them all in plastic, and place them all in the oven for an hour or so
on just over 100° C. to kill any microbial activity. I'd also put
silica gel in the box to absorb moisture, and iron filings to absorb
the oxygen in a bid to further inhibit any growth.

Any suggestions at all greatly appreciated, how to build it or what to
buy, how deep to bury (I do want it discovered eventually), what to
put in, and how to preserve both the integrity of the box, and its
contents. All the contents will be duplicated in a 'house box' so that
we never have the temptation to dig up the real one to check what's
inside


------------------
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all. A video of a trip round the town and some
of the local shops. Maps, both national and local. Most of this would
also be duplicated onto a computer hard disk drive which I understand
preserve their data pretty well, and hopefully they will still somehow
be able to read. Currency, a few of the latest hi-tec gadgets [cheap
ones obviously] so they can have a laugh. The kids will also have
their own little 'secret box' which goes inside with things that only
they know about, which has excited them greatly

Sim D. wrote:
Lo all,


You need a hobby, have you tried DIY?
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Sim D. wrote:
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.


We've got one bricked up behind the fireplace in a metal biccy tin. It can't
come out unless the brickwork's removed so it should stay where it is for a
good few years!

I wouldn't bury one in the ground, personally, because it's quite possible
it wouldn't ever be found.

Si

In message , Sim D.
wrote


{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all. A video of a trip round the town and some
of the local shops. Maps, both national and local. Most of this would
also be duplicated onto a computer hard disk drive which I understand
preserve their data pretty well,

Didn't you imply that you have learnt from the Blue Peter experience?
Will anyone be able to play a CD, video or access a hard disk in 100
years time? Isn't there already a problem with the physical longevity of
data on such media?
--
Alan

"Sim D." on@request wrote in message
...
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

It will be going into ground that is generally damp, but never flooded
(yet), and I would be most disappointed if it was discovered within
100 years, and ideally I would like it to last a 1000, if not more,
which I realise is probably unrealistic.

Initial thoughts were of some strong galvanised steel waterproof box,
with maybe 100 bin liners individually wrapped and tied around it.
Then I realised that is going for quantity over quality and if I want
it to really last then the box itself is going to have to be the main
barrier.


The council buried one near here last year. They got a stainless steel
cylinder about 6" dia x 18" with a screw lid and probably an O ring seal.
Cost a hew hundred £.

Nobody believes the contents will survive very long.

rusty

Sim D. on@request wrote:
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

I'd go with nice old-fashioned stuff.
Lead roofing sheet box, welded seams, dipped in pitch, and several layers.
Put in a polyproplylene bucket, filled with wax.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Sim D. on@request wrote:

Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

How about using a length of plastic soil pipe with suitable end caps with
their own (synthetic)rubber seals etc.?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:39 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Sim D. on@request wrote:

Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

How about using a length of plastic soil pipe with suitable end caps with
their own (synthetic)rubber seals etc.?

I think that for _long_ term burial of artefacts, plastics are best
avoided.

--
Frank Erskine

In message , Sim D.
writes
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all.

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with
the Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

The CD format is on it's way out, There is a DVD format war going on at
the moment with china (who makes most of the players) coming up with
their own format by 2008

Think back 20 years - hard drive formats have changed and the concept
of primitive mechanically stored media will be quaint and out dated in
another 20 as will 64 bit computing and the formats required to e.g.
view pictures

If you're going to do this, you really need to bury a laptop with PSU
and without battery



A video of a trip round the town and some
of the local shops. Maps, both national and local. Most of this would
also be duplicated onto a computer hard disk drive which I understand
preserve their data pretty well, and hopefully they will still somehow
be able to read. Currency, a few of the latest hi-tec gadgets [cheap
ones obviously] so they can have a laugh. The kids will also have
their own little 'secret box' which goes inside with things that only
they know about, which has excited them greatly

--
geoff

Sim D. wrote:
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

Ceramics are a good protecter when burying something.
However its finding something large enough and strong for items you have
stated.

I worked on a farm in my youth and the tractor was forever upheaving
ceramic and glass pottery items dating back to 16th century, clay pipes
came up in their hundreds this must have been a kiln area.


--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:25:28 GMT, Sim D. on@request wrote:

Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

It will be going into ground that is generally damp, but never flooded
(yet), and I would be most disappointed if it was discovered within
100 years, and ideally I would like it to last a 1000, if not more,
which I realise is probably unrealistic.

Initial thoughts were of some strong galvanised steel waterproof box,
with maybe 100 bin liners individually wrapped and tied around it.
Then I realised that is going for quantity over quality and if I want
it to really last then the box itself is going to have to be the main
barrier.

A few thoughts I'd had about some of the contents would be to seal
them all in plastic, and place them all in the oven for an hour or so
on just over 100° C. to kill any microbial activity. I'd also put
silica gel in the box to absorb moisture, and iron filings to absorb
the oxygen in a bid to further inhibit any growth.

Any suggestions at all greatly appreciated, how to build it or what to
buy, how deep to bury (I do want it discovered eventually), what to
put in, and how to preserve both the integrity of the box, and its
contents. All the contents will be duplicated in a 'house box' so that
we never have the temptation to dig up the real one to check what's
inside

I'd suggest a box fabricated from sheet lead and seam soldered would
be your best bet.

Lead lined stone coffins have been discovered dating back thousands of
years.

sponix

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:13 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Sim D.
writes
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all.

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with
the Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

The CD format is on it's way out, There is a DVD format war going on at
the moment with china (who makes most of the players) coming up with
their own format by 2008

I think CDs are now so widespread that there will always be something to read them reasonably
available, however the lifetime of the CD itself may be questionable, especially in possibly damp
environments.

Ian Stirling wrote:

Sim D. on@request wrote:
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

I'd go with nice old-fashioned stuff.
Lead roofing sheet box, welded seams, dipped in pitch, and several layers.
Put in a polyproplylene bucket, filled with wax.

The only suggestion so far for an outer casing that IMHO stands any
chance of lasting!


--

Sim D. on@request wrote:

{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all. A video of a trip round the town and some
of the local shops. Maps, both national and local. Most of this would
also be duplicated onto a computer hard disk drive which I understand
preserve their data pretty well, and hopefully they will still somehow
be able to read. Currency, a few of the latest hi-tec gadgets [cheap
ones obviously] so they can have a laugh. The kids will also have
their own little 'secret box' which goes inside with things that only
they know about, which has excited them greatly

Burying *any* electronic media is a complete waste of time, photos
need very stable conditions to survive intact for more than a few
decades and unless the right choice of paper and ink is made that will
quickly degrade as well.

Look at items that have in the past survived 1000 years - not very
many, then look at the ones that have survived 4000 years - quite a
lot when they were stored correctly - replicate what the Ancients,
particularly the Egyptians did rather than relying on anything post
industrial revolution.


--

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:47:10 +0100, --s-p-o-n-i-x--
wrote:

I'd suggest a box fabricated from sheet lead and seam soldered would
be your best bet.

This will crack under its own weight. If you want to make a long seam in
lead, then it needs to be either mechanically joined (a rolled edge) or
a welded edge (lead burning).

Lead lined stone coffins have been discovered dating back thousands of
years.

Depending on the local water. In some conditions the water goes right
through them. Lead isn't actually that stable long-term, you need a
moderately hard water to build up a surface carbonate layer on it.

"Sim D." on@request wrote in message
...

Put it all on a cheap laptop.
Seal that up (without the battery) and they may be able to access the data
in a hundred years or so.
Assuming they still have electricity that is.

Anything on computer storage is likely to be unreadable in 100 years time as
standards have changed a few times.

"Matt" wrote in message
...


Burying *any* electronic media is a complete waste of time, photos
need very stable conditions to survive intact for more than a few
decades and unless the right choice of paper and ink is made that will
quickly degrade as well.

Pencil will last longer than ink.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:18:58 +0100, Matt
wrote:

Ian Stirling wrote:

Sim D. on@request wrote:
Lo all,

Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

I've a pretty good idea what I want to put in it [see below], but I'm
much less sure about how to preserve the integrity of whatever box I
put it in, and how long the contents will last even if the box stays
leakproof.

I'd go with nice old-fashioned stuff.
Lead roofing sheet box, welded seams, dipped in pitch, and several layers.
Put in a polyproplylene bucket, filled with wax.

The only suggestion so far for an outer casing that IMHO stands any
chance of lasting!

What about filling the box with a gas to remove the oxygen and prevent
oxidisation of the contents?

If it were pressurised it'd also discourage the ingress of water, for
a period of time at least.

sponix

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:13 GMT, raden wrote:

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with
the Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

I tried returning a Betamax tape some time ago only to be told "Sorry,
it's an obsolete format and isn't covered". This was despite the tape
sleeve having the lifetime guarantee printed on it and the same Maxell
Betamax tapes were still available in Argos (At the time)!

sponix

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:27:52 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

This will crack under its own weight.

I was assuming that this'd be something maybe 6" cubed. It'd only
crack under it's own weight if huge.

Obviously a lead box would need to be placed inside something else
(Concrete?) to provide mechanical strength and prevent it being
crushed.

Depending on the local water. In some conditions the water goes right
through them. Lead isn't actually that stable long-term, you need a
moderately hard water to build up a surface carbonate layer on it.

So how do lead covered roofs work? The rain water bounces straight
off. Rain water is also "soft" so there would be no build up of
minerals either.

sponix

In article , Matt
wrote:
replicate what the Ancients, particularly the Egyptians did rather than
relying on anything post industrial revolution.

Desiccating surroundings.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:25:28 +0100, Sim D. on@request wrote:


Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

It occurs to me with all this talk of lead lined boxes et al, that the
finder needs to know that it is a time capsule, and have a method of
opening it!

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

In article op.syo8wnvato48ne@tosher, says...
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:25:28 +0100, Sim D. on@request wrote:


Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

Conservation Resources sell stainless steel time capsules with silica
gel sachets and shreddies (their word not mine) which can be sealed and
purged with inert gas. I spex thats the bees knees of time capsules.
Should be at 245 pounds for the smallest size

Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Mike Gayler wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:25:28 +0100, Sim D. on@request wrote:


Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to do
since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

It occurs to me with all this talk of lead lined boxes et al, that the
finder needs to know that it is a time capsule, and have a method of
opening it!

One solution would be to use a 24k gold box, TIG welded together.

In message , Mike Harrison
writes
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:13 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Sim D.
writes
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all.

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with
the Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

The CD format is on it's way out, There is a DVD format war going on at
the moment with china (who makes most of the players) coming up with
their own format by 2008

I think CDs are now so widespread that there will always be something
to read them reasonably
available,

Really ?

Have you forgotten that the primary medium for sound reproduction for
more than 70 years was vinyl, yet how many people still have a
turntable, or that Dixons no longer sell video recorders which were the
almost exclusive means of recording video images for about 30 years or
that Kodak are bowing out of traditional film for cameras ?

Do you understand that the rate of change is speeding up and that, as a
mechanical, and thus inherently unreliable, means of data storage, the
CD format will go the same way.

In 50 years the only CD players you'll see will be those accidentally
dug up in time capsules


however the lifetime of the CD itself may be questionable, especially
in possibly damp
environments.

--
geoff

In message ,
"dennis@home" writes

"Sim D." on@request wrote in message
.. .

Put it all on a cheap laptop.
Seal that up (without the battery) and they may be able to access the data
in a hundred years or so.
Assuming they still have electricity that is.

Didn't I write that ?



Anything on computer storage is likely to be unreadable in 100 years time as
standards have changed a few times.

You didn't really pay attention there did you ?

As long as you have 'lektrik, all you need to do is plug it in and
switch it on, the standards, obsolete or not, are internal to the
computer and as long as the electronics still works will be quite
readable


--
geoff

raden wrote:
In message ,
"dennis@home" writes

"Sim D." on@request wrote in message
. ..

Put it all on a cheap laptop.
Seal that up (without the battery) and they may be able to access the data
in a hundred years or so.
Assuming they still have electricity that is.

Didn't I write that ?

Anything on computer storage is likely to be unreadable in 100 years time as
standards have changed a few times.

You didn't really pay attention there did you ?

As long as you have 'lektrik, all you need to do is plug it in and
switch it on, the standards, obsolete or not, are internal to the
computer and as long as the electronics still works will be quite
readable

Based on my electronics knowledge.
After 100 years.
The hard drive will certainly not work, neither will the CD.
The LCD is unlikely to work, owing to diffusion of water and stuff into
the LCD.
The battery certainly won't work.

Tougher problems.
All the electrolytic capacitors inside (maybe 100) are likely to have at
best, the dielectric film broken down, and quite possibly to have leaked, and
the contents gone over the board, corroding it. The sealing isn't especially
good in many cases, and is certainly not up to 100 years.

I would expect most of the semiconductors to work.
The flash BIOS may be OK, some do claim 100 year retention, but...

In short - apart from the LCD, it's not impossible it could be revived.

It's going to be easier to reterofit a conventional PC so that it would last
that time.

I'd replace the low value electrolytics with film caps, and the high value
ones probably with some sort of more exotic cap.

A CRT monitor can have the same done with it.

I'd dissasemble the CD/DVD, and clean off all lubricants from it.

I would have doubts about the lens quality in commercial players - especially
solvent crazing of the lens.

Not to mention the problem with CD longevity.

It'd be easier if it was able to boot every 20 years or so, and rewrite
all the flash memory.

This is possible, but an interesting challenge.

Amongst other problems - the connectors will likely corrode.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ,
"dennis@home" writes

"Sim D." on@request wrote in message
. ..

Put it all on a cheap laptop.
Seal that up (without the battery) and they may be able to access the data
in a hundred years or so.
Assuming they still have electricity that is.

Didn't I write that ?

Yes you did.
I didn't see yours until later on.. sorry 8-(
Just shows that great minds and fools think alike.


Anything on computer storage is likely to be unreadable in 100 years time
as
standards have changed a few times.

You didn't really pay attention there did you ?

As long as you have 'lektrik, all you need to do is plug it in and switch
it on, the standards, obsolete or not, are internal to the computer and as
long as the electronics still works will be quite readable

You are making the assumption that it will still work and that someone will
know how to drive it.
Maybe it needs to be a MAC.. they are marketed as being suitable for idiots.
;-)

--s-p-o-n-i-x-- wrote:

If it were pressurised it'd also discourage the ingress of water, for
a period of time at least.

and use archival quality acid free paper for any that goes in there...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

raden wrote:
In message , Mike Harrison
writes
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:13 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Sim D.
writes
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all.

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with
the Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

The CD format is on it's way out, There is a DVD format war going on at
the moment with china (who makes most of the players) coming up with
their own format by 2008

I think CDs are now so widespread that there will always be something
to read them reasonably
available,

Really ?

Certainly.

Have you forgotten that the primary medium for sound reproduction for
more than 70 years was vinyl, yet how many people still have a
turntable, or that Dixons no longer sell video recorders which were the
almost exclusive means of recording video images for about 30 years or
that Kodak are bowing out of traditional film for cameras ?

The point is not "how many people still have".
But, how many people in the world have one.
I'd guess that right now, 100 people in my little village have the
capabiity of reading vinyl.
I would be utterly astonished if the number of edison disk readers in the
UK was less than 1000.
And reading old film isn't exactly hard.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ian Stirling wrote:


Based on my electronics knowledge.
After 100 years. . .

Gosh, you must be old! g
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember raden saying
something like:

Have you forgotten that the primary medium for sound reproduction for
more than 70 years was vinyl, yet how many people still have a
turntable, or that Dixons no longer sell video recorders which were the
almost exclusive means of recording video images for about 30 years or
that Kodak are bowing out of traditional film for cameras ?

Do you understand that the rate of change is speeding up and that, as a
mechanical, and thus inherently unreliable, means of data storage, the
CD format will go the same way.

Most non-pressed CDs will be unreadable of their own accord in a few
years time anyway. The OP is proposing to put home-burnt video CDs in
the box; I've been ****ed off recently with the loss of some quite
useful data on burnt CD, after a mere 2 years.
--

Dave

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Sim D.
writes
{*} contents would include the predictable items such as a selection
of that day's newspapers, written letters from each of the family,
brief history of the house and family, photographs videos CDs of music
and commentary from us all.

I'd steer away from (especially) video - they might have problems with the
Maxell lifetime guarantee in 1000 years time

The CD format is on it's way out, There is a DVD format war going on at
the moment with china (who makes most of the players) coming up with their
own format by 2008

Think back 20 years - hard drive formats have changed and the concept of
primitive mechanically stored media will be quaint and out dated in
another 20 as will 64 bit computing and the formats required to e.g. view
pictures

If you're going to do this, you really need to bury a laptop with PSU and
without battery



A video of a trip round the town and some
of the local shops. Maps, both national and local. Most of this would
also be duplicated onto a computer hard disk drive which I understand
preserve their data pretty well, and hopefully they will still somehow
be able to read. Currency, a few of the latest hi-tec gadgets [cheap
ones obviously] so they can have a laugh. The kids will also have
their own little 'secret box' which goes inside with things that only
they know about, which has excited them greatly

--
geoff

Store letters in txt files and copy to a usb thumb drive. Or scan them into
bmp files to
store on the thumb drive.

While on the subject or a few hudred years hence.
Say for example, this bird flu wipes out everyone on the planet and then
long after the crows have picked our bones clean.
have scientists speculated on how long it would be before avery man made
thing has ..in short, turned to dust?

Arthur

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:48:14 +0100, --s-p-o-n-i-x--
wrote:

Depending on the local water. In some conditions the water goes right
through them. Lead isn't actually that stable long-term, you need a
moderately hard water to build up a surface carbonate layer on it.

So how do lead covered roofs work?

A carelessly installed lead gutter may leak in just a year or two.
Properly applied leadwork is treated with "patination oil" after
installation and it's this patina that provides much of the corrosion
resistance. A roof itself isn't that bad, as they tend to dry fairly
quickly after rain.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:41:32 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

and use archival quality acid free paper for any that goes in there...

Almost all paper is acid free - when they make it. If you want it to
last, then it needs to be buffered (i.e. an excess of an alkaline filler
added) to ensure that it doesn't become acid in the future. It should
also be made from the right sort of fibre (i.e. not lignin-rich wood
fibre and not produced by an acid rich process). If you take the "pulp"
paper as used for cheap paerbacks and filled it with chalk, the stuff
would still be brittle and acidic a few decades hence.

"Acid free" paper labelled as such is by and large garbage and won't
last a decade. If you want to trust it, then get it from a reputable
maker (and that doesn't include the impressively packaged "Crimson &
Blake" tat sold in the poundshop bookshops, no matter how convincing it
looks). It will also be labelled as "archival" or "buffered", not just
"acid free".

OTOH, avoid buffered materials if you're working with colour
photographs, as they don't like alkalis any more than acids.

--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

In message , Huge
writes
raden writes:
In message ,
"dennis@home" writes

[16 lines snipped]

You didn't really pay attention there did you ?

As long as you have 'lektrik, all you need to do is plug it in and
switch it on, the standards, obsolete or not, are internal to the
computer and as long as the electronics still works will be quite
readable

So, here's an 8" floppy, get the data off it for me, will you?

I have to say that I've never seen a laptop with an 8" floppy in it


Selective snipping, dontchya lurve it ?



Or a TK50.

Or a DC6150.



--
geoff

Ian Stirling wrote:
Mike Gayler wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:25:28 +0100, Sim D. on@request wrote:


Doing a bit of minor outside work and it presents the perfect
opportunity to bury a time capsule. Something I've always wanted to
do since seeing Blue Peter's abortive efforts as a kid in the 70s.

It occurs to me with all this talk of lead lined boxes et al, that
the finder needs to know that it is a time capsule, and have a
method of opening it!

One solution would be to use a 24k gold box, TIG welded together.

Inside a 6' square reinforced concrete vault. With a 1000 year "Here I am"
beacon inside.

Si

On 16 Oct 2005 00:17:09 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

So, here's an 8" floppy, get the data off it for me, will you?

Or a TK50.

Or a DC6150.

I can read any of those formats with a couple of phone calls (also
cards, paper tapes, anything 9 track)

Anything later, and especially DAT from the early '90s, and you're
screwed.

In the mid '90s I worked on a (substantial budget, 6,000 disk) project
to store engineering drawings on optical disks. It was a re-work of a 5
year old project because the "eternity guarantee" optical media would
only be read by an optical reader that was no longer in production and
was becoming hard to find working readers for. In a staggering piece
of stupidity the barrow-boy mentality salesman who was architecting this
project chose to switch to a HP optical disk format that was available
cheaply because _those_ readers were becoming obsolete too. Of course in
under 5 years time, that project had to be entirely scrapped again.

Data evaporates from any medium that isn't actively spinning right this
minute. If you want to keep it, you need to put it onto a NAS now and
keep it on-line. As technology moves onwards, buy new hardware and copy
it over about every 5 years. Fortunately Moore's Law means that anything
it costs serious money to collect in the first place will be cheap to
move for the first time and trivial after that.

If you keep your data on a disk in a dark cupboard, it just won't be
there when you go to use it.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:24:01 +0100, Anna Kettle
wrote:

Conservation Resources sell stainless steel time capsules with silica
gel sachets and shreddies (their word not mine) which can be sealed and
purged with inert gas. I spex thats the bees knees of time capsules.
Should be at 245 pounds for the smallest size

I don't know "Conservation Resources" (I use the other big two) but the
expensive steel time capsules I've seen were most unimpressive in
manufacture.

Personally I used vacuum system plumbing, from my favourite scrapyard.
1/4" thick stainless, of the right grade, and properly welded. The
bolted flanges seal with wire gaskets. Most importantly (why I don't
like the commercial time capsules I've seen) the flanges were stiff
enough so that tree-root movement wasn't enough to bend the flange and
open up the skinny seal gasket.

Mil-surplus shell cases are good too. Tank shells are shipped in lovely
cylindrical plastic cases with good bayonet-fit ends and big rubbber
o-ring seals. Their lifetime ought to be good and I know divers who've
used them to some fair depth and had them stay watertight.


Web searching for "geocaching" will give you more ideas.

In article ,
says...

I don't know "Conservation Resources" (I use the other big two)

Who are the other big two? For me they would be Tiranti and South
Western Industrial Plaster but I suspect you mean different companies
which maybe it would be handy for me to know about

Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642If it were me