Hi,

A friend of mine hired builders who were working for another friend of
his but this friend of mine did not satisfy himself with the quality of
work they are doing and hired them to build a porch and fit kitchen just
on hearsay. He gave the builders £8000 advance and sent these builders
to me to build my porch and toilet.

I also did not see what they have done at my friend's place and thinking
that they are reliable and good builders gave them the advance of £3500
against a contract worth £6500.

Then these builders did not appear to be reliable and after digging the
foundation of my friend's porch, they left the muck lying around with no
skip to take it away.

After the builders left my friend in lurch, then he was worried as to be
the genuineness of the builders. My friend visited the Builder's address
in Gloucester to talk to the builders why they are delaying his project?
Then, the builders brought in some blocks and material for him and that
was it.

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each.

Hearing all these stories, I became suspicious of the builders and when
they sent a team of three on Saturday, 6th August to dig my foundation
without any skip to put the dug out material, I told the workers that I
do not want a mess in front of my house and they should bring the
construction material and the skip before starting the job as the
advance was paid against the materials, skip, etc.

They promised to bring in material last Monday/Tuesday 15/16 August but
nothing so far and they promised to finish my job within 5 weeks of 27
July.

Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.

Now, the facts of the case in a nutshell a-

The Company is a sole trader and is owned by a person who never visits
the sites or signs the contracts but sends workers. The persons
representing his company do not have any business cards that they are
authorised to sign the contracts and these two representatives are
taking money in the name of a private person who claims to be an
employee of the company. The signatures of the person signing the
contract are also dubious. For example, our cheque was taken in his
name on 27 July and presented the very day to be cashed next day from my
Abbey National Bank. I did contact this person on his mobile and asked
him when would he bring the materials but he made false promises and
refused to give his private address saying that he is just an employee
of the company/sole trader.

To me the whole thing is a scam and I would like your advise what course
of action should I take to recover my money please? How could I find
the private address of this private person to sue him for the money
please? I have written to the Police of Gloucester but so far I have
not heard from them.

This Builder has done no work at my place but in the other cases, he
just dug his teeth in to argue his case. Total money involved is around
£91,500. The other three being in a deeper waters rang some solicitors
in Gloucester for assistance but they claim to be already acting for
this Builder.

Trading Standards Officer of Gloucester has been informed for assistance
but he says, we should forget about recovering our money. The employees
of the Builder who have collected the money already stress that they
have not committed any crime and Police cannot touch them.

Rajinder Nijjhar

Try uk.legal or uk.legal.moderated

--
Andrew Gabriel

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:

Trading Standards Officer of Gloucester has been informed for assistance
but he says, we should forget about recovering our money. The employees
of the Builder who have collected the money already stress that they
have not committed any crime and Police cannot touch them.

As Andrew Gabriel has pointed out uk.legal is probably your first stop.
Unfortunately, I suspect that the company may suddenly go into
administration. I do hope that you did not provide all the money up front.

John Schmitt

Owain wrote:
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each....
Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.
The Company is a sole trader


So not actually a company, and that is a crucial difference in terms of
liability.

You can probably sue in the courts. If the court notice cannot be served
on him at his last known address it is possible to advertise the fact
that an action has been raised in the newspapers so the defender can
collect his copy of the court papers from the court. You need a
solicitor to do this.

If the defender doesn't attend the court hearing you should get
judgement in default. However, you are then left with the problem of
locating the defendant and getting your money out of him. If he doesn't
have any assets it's not worth sueing him.

Owain


Is there any other field of human endeavour where people so readily hand
total strangers large sums of money?
You pay for work that has *been* done and materials that are *on* site.
If a builder can't finance the rest, then you would expect trouble down
the line.
Even with this arrangement some of them will do the easy bits, take half
the money, and never be seen again. Keep owing *them* money and you
can't go far wrong.

"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message
...
Hi,

A friend of mine hired builders who were working for another friend of
his but this friend of mine did not satisfy himself with the quality of
work they are doing and hired them to build a porch and fit kitchen just
on hearsay. He gave the builders £8000 advance and sent these builders
to me to build my porch and toilet.

I also did not see what they have done at my friend's place and thinking
that they are reliable and good builders gave them the advance of £3500
against a contract worth £6500.

Then these builders did not appear to be reliable and after digging the
foundation of my friend's porch, they left the muck lying around with no
skip to take it away.

After the builders left my friend in lurch, then he was worried as to be
the genuineness of the builders. My friend visited the Builder's address
in Gloucester to talk to the builders why they are delaying his project?
Then, the builders brought in some blocks and material for him and that
was it.

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each.

Hearing all these stories, I became suspicious of the builders and when
they sent a team of three on Saturday, 6th August to dig my foundation
without any skip to put the dug out material, I told the workers that I
do not want a mess in front of my house and they should bring the
construction material and the skip before starting the job as the
advance was paid against the materials, skip, etc.

They promised to bring in material last Monday/Tuesday 15/16 August but
nothing so far and they promised to finish my job within 5 weeks of 27
July.

Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.

Now, the facts of the case in a nutshell a-

The Company is a sole trader and is owned by a person who never visits
the sites or signs the contracts but sends workers. The persons
representing his company do not have any business cards that they are
authorised to sign the contracts and these two representatives are
taking money in the name of a private person who claims to be an
employee of the company. The signatures of the person signing the
contract are also dubious. For example, our cheque was taken in his
name on 27 July and presented the very day to be cashed next day from my
Abbey National Bank. I did contact this person on his mobile and asked
him when would he bring the materials but he made false promises and
refused to give his private address saying that he is just an employee
of the company/sole trader.

To me the whole thing is a scam and I would like your advise what course
of action should I take to recover my money please? How could I find
the private address of this private person to sue him for the money
please? I have written to the Police of Gloucester but so far I have
not heard from them.

This Builder has done no work at my place but in the other cases, he
just dug his teeth in to argue his case. Total money involved is around
£91,500. The other three being in a deeper waters rang some solicitors
in Gloucester for assistance but they claim to be already acting for
this Builder.

Trading Standards Officer of Gloucester has been informed for assistance
but he says, we should forget about recovering our money. The employees
of the Builder who have collected the money already stress that they
have not committed any crime and Police cannot touch them.

Rajinder Nijjhar

If he was renting the house get in touch with the landlord/letting agent, to
see if they know anything. Also watchdog may be worth a try, they love a
doggy builder!

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:
snip

The Company is a sole trader and is owned by a person who never visits
the sites or signs the contracts but sends workers. The persons
representing his company do not have any business cards that they are
authorised to sign the contracts and these two representatives are
taking money in the name of a private person who claims to be an
employee of the company. The signatures of the person signing the
contract are also dubious. For example, our cheque was taken in his
name on 27 July and presented the very day to be cashed next day from my
Abbey National Bank. I did contact this person on his mobile and asked
him when would he bring the materials but he made false promises and
refused to give his private address saying that he is just an employee
of the company/sole trader.

snip


You could try to cancel your cheque. "Clearing" is not always what it
seems, cheques can sometimes be canceled well after they have cleared I
believe.

Alex.

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:


It would seem that the Cowboys have exploited the Indians yet again.

:-)

Dave

Hi,

Two Indians and two Englishmen.

Rajinder

"david lang" wrote in message
...
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:


It would seem that the Cowboys have exploited the Indians yet again.

:-)

Dave

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:00:14 GMT, "Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt"
wrote:

Hi,

Two Indians and two Englishmen.

Rajinder

You may have to chalk this one down to experience. Were they Irish
tinkers? Is there a camp of travelers near by? You might be able to
get some redress if your prepared to get your hands dirty.

Stuart Noble wrote:
Owain wrote:
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of =A340,000 each....
Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.
The Company is a sole trader


So not actually a company, and that is a crucial difference in terms of
liability.

You can probably sue in the courts. If the court notice cannot be served
on him at his last known address it is possible to advertise the fact
that an action has been raised in the newspapers so the defender can
collect his copy of the court papers from the court. You need a
solicitor to do this.

If the defender doesn't attend the court hearing you should get
judgement in default. However, you are then left with the problem of
locating the defendant and getting your money out of him. If he doesn't
have any assets it's not worth sueing him.

Owain


Is there any other field of human endeavour where people so readily hand
total strangers large sums of money?

The average person in the street simply isn't used to dealing with such
accomplished and convincing liars. Until you've been done by such
con-men, you don't appreciate how persuasive they can be. Even after
the event, you can't work out how they took you in. They exploit
typical human weaknesses. Classically it's the elderly who are more
trusting, but people who are simply too busy to shop around and wait in
for genuine builders who don't turn up to give a quote are equally
vulnerable. And just about everybody is frightened by assurances that
"your house is in a dangerous state and such-and-such must be done
immediately", especially if the caller has given the impression they're
from the Council. Once they've got you into the habit of handing over
large sums of money you get resigned to it.

They most likely did (or started to do) a good job at a good price for
the first person in Rajinder's chain, then relied on the
recommendations. Rajinder: warn everyone that they're probably now an a
circulating "mugs list" and to have absolutely nothing to do with any
builders who appear uninvited on their doorsteps, no matter what they
say; "Yes, we know about X, we're always picking up after him, but
we're not like that." will be the opening ploy.

Sadly, the chances of your getting your money back, even with a court
order, are vanishingly slim. Our local Trading Standards has managed to
get some convictions for not allowing the doorstep sales cooling-off
period, rather than quality of work or conmanship.

Chris

Hi Chris,

You have rightly hit the nail over the head. I totally agree with you
and believe the Government should do some thing to stop this conmanship.

Rajinder


wrote in message
ups.com...

Stuart Noble wrote:
Owain wrote:
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each....
Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used
to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it
seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered.
I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my
money
back but no reply or telephone call.
The Company is a sole trader


So not actually a company, and that is a crucial difference in terms
of
liability.

You can probably sue in the courts. If the court notice cannot be
served
on him at his last known address it is possible to advertise the
fact
that an action has been raised in the newspapers so the defender can
collect his copy of the court papers from the court. You need a
solicitor to do this.

If the defender doesn't attend the court hearing you should get
judgement in default. However, you are then left with the problem of
locating the defendant and getting your money out of him. If he
doesn't
have any assets it's not worth sueing him.

Owain


Is there any other field of human endeavour where people so readily
hand
total strangers large sums of money?

The average person in the street simply isn't used to dealing with such
accomplished and convincing liars. Until you've been done by such
con-men, you don't appreciate how persuasive they can be. Even after
the event, you can't work out how they took you in. They exploit
typical human weaknesses. Classically it's the elderly who are more
trusting, but people who are simply too busy to shop around and wait in
for genuine builders who don't turn up to give a quote are equally
vulnerable. And just about everybody is frightened by assurances that
"your house is in a dangerous state and such-and-such must be done
immediately", especially if the caller has given the impression they're
from the Council. Once they've got you into the habit of handing over
large sums of money you get resigned to it.

They most likely did (or started to do) a good job at a good price for
the first person in Rajinder's chain, then relied on the
recommendations. Rajinder: warn everyone that they're probably now an a
circulating "mugs list" and to have absolutely nothing to do with any
builders who appear uninvited on their doorsteps, no matter what they
say; "Yes, we know about X, we're always picking up after him, but
we're not like that." will be the opening ploy.

Sadly, the chances of your getting your money back, even with a court
order, are vanishingly slim. Our local Trading Standards has managed to
get some convictions for not allowing the doorstep sales cooling-off
period, rather than quality of work or conmanship.

Chris