I thought it was, or in the process of being, banned, yet I saw reels
of it on the shelves of my local hardware store this morning and the
man said it was news to him that lead-containing solder had been
banned. He reckoned his suppliers kept him up to speed on legislation.

MM

In article , "MM"
says...
I thought it was, or in the process of being, banned, yet I saw reels
of it on the shelves of my local hardware store this morning and the
man said it was news to him that lead-containing solder had been
banned. He reckoned his suppliers kept him up to speed on legislation.

Lead solder in plumbing has already been banned. In electronics it
will be banned next year.

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:11:38 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

In article , "MM"
says...
I thought it was, or in the process of being, banned, yet I saw reels
of it on the shelves of my local hardware store this morning and the
man said it was news to him that lead-containing solder had been
banned. He reckoned his suppliers kept him up to speed on legislation.

Lead solder in plumbing has already been banned. In electronics it
will be banned next year.

...but only in certain types of equipment (consumer & IT, broadly), and not for repair of existing
equipment. It's not going to vanish off the shelves any time soon.

In article , "Mike
Harrison" says...
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:11:38 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

In article , "MM"
says...
I thought it was, or in the process of being, banned, yet I saw reels
of it on the shelves of my local hardware store this morning and the
man said it was news to him that lead-containing solder had been
banned. He reckoned his suppliers kept him up to speed on legislation.

Lead solder in plumbing has already been banned. In electronics it
will be banned next year.

..but only in certain types of equipment (consumer & IT, broadly), and not for repair of existing
equipment. It's not going to vanish off the shelves any time soon.


Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

And of course I dont think China has signed up to this and where does most
electronic eqpt come from these days ?


Dave

Rob Morley wrote:

Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

My laptop has the words "lead free solder" etched into the boards...

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:59:34 +0000, Lee wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:

Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

My laptop has the words "lead free solder" etched into the boards...

Lee

Interesting


Dave

MM wrote:
I thought it was, or in the process of being, banned, yet I saw reels
of it on the shelves of my local hardware store this morning and the
man said it was news to him that lead-containing solder had been
banned. He reckoned his suppliers kept him up to speed on legislation.

MM

A quote from the directive is:

"1. Member States shall ensure that, from 1 July 2006, new electrical
and electronic equipment put on the market does not contain lead,
mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, polybrominated biphenyls (PBB)
or polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE). National measures restricting
or prohibiting the use of these substances in electrical and electronic
equipment which were adopted in line with Community legislation before
the adoption of this Directive may be maintained until 1 July 2006."

from
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/...en00190023.pdf

I think the main problem being tackled is the disposal of old equipment
where if they contain lead and are put into landfill, there is a risk
that these chemicals can then leach out into groundwater etc.

Also http://www.dti.gov.uk/sustainability/weee/

dave stanton wrote:
Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

And of course I dont think China has signed up to this and where does most
electronic eqpt come from these days ?



I don't think this will matter, as it will be illegal for the
electronic products containing lead etc to be sold in the EU - so if
they want to continue selling products here they will have to change.

On 1 Aug 2005 08:01:11 -0700, "
wrote:


I think the main problem being tackled is the disposal of old equipment
where if they contain lead and are put into landfill, there is a risk
that these chemicals can then leach out into groundwater etc.

Just a though but I'm slightly confused re the issue of lead and the
ground?

I assume it was mined from the ground in the first place and I think
someone said when in the ground it's pretty inert and on the surface
it oxidizes and that is also fairly inert (I don't know, just thinking
aloud)?

Not the same sort of problem as with say lead in petrol or solder
fumes etc?

I have probably spent most of my life over a soldering iron (not in
production though) and petrol, cleaning engine componets (benzene?) ,
creosote ..? ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

In article , "T i m"
says...
On 1 Aug 2005 08:01:11 -0700, "
wrote:


I think the main problem being tackled is the disposal of old equipment
where if they contain lead and are put into landfill, there is a risk
that these chemicals can then leach out into groundwater etc.

Just a though but I'm slightly confused re the issue of lead and the
ground?

I assume it was mined from the ground in the first place and I think
someone said when in the ground it's pretty inert and on the surface
it oxidizes and that is also fairly inert (I don't know, just thinking
aloud)?

Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

Rob Morley wrote:
Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

Hm. What compounds does it form when it "dissolves"?

Where does that leave us when there're churches,
cathederals, houses and blocks of garages all with
lead on their roofs!

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:49:29 +0100, Chris Bacon wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:
Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

Hm. What compounds does it form when it "dissolves"?

Where does that leave us when there're churches,
cathederals, houses and blocks of garages all with
lead on their roofs!

Lead is a cumalative poison, that is it builds up in tissue in the body
and does not go away.

Dave

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 18:49:29 +0100, dave stanton
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:49:29 +0100, Chris Bacon wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:
Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

Hm. What compounds does it form when it "dissolves"?

Where does that leave us when there're churches,
cathederals, houses and blocks of garages all with
lead on their roofs!

Lead is a cumalative poison, that is it builds up in tissue in the body
and does not go away.

Ah, thanks Dave / Rob.

And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?

All the best ..

T i m

......... and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of Mercury in
them?

Sod the ground, what about my mouth.


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
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x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

Ah, thanks Dave / Rob.

And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?

All the best ..

T i m

Sort of. Its bound with oxygen as an oxide, it has to be ' reduced' by
chemical process to get the refined metal form.

All my A and ONC chemistry coming back now g.

Dave

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:54:55 GMT, T i m wrote:

Lead is a cumalative poison, that is it builds up in tissue in
the
body and does not go away.

Ah, thanks Dave / Rob.

And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?

Well that depends. If you are in a habit of drinking water that has
perculated through the galena bearing rocks...

Personally I think there is rather a lot of over reaction to the
toxicity of some heavy metals. Wander along the stream and river
beds around here and you can pick up lumps of galena. Found a big
lump the other day 1" dia couple of inches long, not very pure
though as it's not a particulary cubic or heavy bit. Our water
doesn't come from the river though, not so sure about places
downstream like Hexham and Newcastle though. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Chris McBrien wrote:
........ and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of Mercury in
them?

Yes, they're a mercury/silver/tin/copper/zinc amalgam. There's been
a "scare" about it for years. Quite frankly, it seems there's little
evidence it's harmful*, as it's been in use for over 100 years, and
the amount of mercury entering the body from dental amalgam is very
small compared to that ingested in food.


*If mercury vapour is likely to be a threat, I suggest that to be
so you'd be at a temperature where mercury vapour would be the
least of your worries.

dave stanton wrote:
Ah, thanks Dave / Rob.

And when it's (lead ore) in the ground in it's un-mined
state is it 'safe'?

Sort of. Its bound with oxygen as an oxide, it has to be ' reduced' by
chemical process to get the refined metal form.

Sort of. It's lead sulphide, not oxide.


All my A and ONC chemistry coming back now g.

Did you pass? When did you take it?

And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?


Mostly yes because it is deep under the ground. No poison is an problem if
it's out of the way. If you are a troglodyte then I suppose it might be an
issue.

Henry

dave stanton wrote in newsan.2005.08.01.13.24.05.136057
@privacy.net:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:59:34 +0000, Lee wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:

Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

My laptop has the words "lead free solder" etched into the boards...

Lee

Interesting


I noticed a similar thing describing a product on www.scan.co.uk "Lead Free
(Pb)". (I guess, just in case you thought it was, umm, lead free. :-) )


(Not there today.)
--
Rod

I don't think landfill is the problem but other more eurofriendly
methods of recycling. If these things are put in incinerators they all
produce harmful toxins that might easily reach the atmosphere.

I rather think the general trend is a move away from landfill. And as
for China, I think the move to more eco friendly ingredients would be a
lifesaver there, as old computer parts are sent to China where illegal
back street workshops maim (and even kill) hundreds if not thousands in
the recovery of lead solder from pcb boards.

In article ,
Chris Bacon writes:
Chris McBrien wrote:
........ and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of Mercury in
them?

Yes, they're a mercury/silver/tin/copper/zinc amalgam. There's been
a "scare" about it for years.

There was a Dispatches, or Horizon, or similar on this probably
some 15 or more years ago. My recollection is that mercury
release to the environment from crematoria chimneys is actually
quite significant, at around 3g per person. There was some
discussion about removing fillings, but that doesn't work, as
after around 10 years, most of the mercury has left the filling
amalgam and lodged somewhere else in the body (the brain seems
to absorb mercury more than other body tissues).

Quite frankly, it seems there's little
evidence it's harmful*, as it's been in use for over 100 years, and
the amount of mercury entering the body from dental amalgam is very
small compared to that ingested in food.

You may be right, but equally there are lots of diseases which
people get for which the cause is not yet understood.

The other large source of environmental mercury is from the
flues of coal fired power stations, depending where in the
world the coal was mined.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Chris Bacon writes:
Chris McBrien wrote:
........ and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of Mercury in
them?
Yes, they're a mercury/silver/tin/copper/zinc amalgam. There's been
a "scare" about it for years.

There was a Dispatches, or Horizon, or similar on this probably
some 15 or more years ago. My recollection is that mercury
release to the environment from crematoria chimneys is actually
quite significant, at around 3g per person.

That's why the flue is fitted with an expensive "scrubber" (ooh-er!).


There was some
discussion about removing fillings, but that doesn't work, as
after around 10 years, most of the mercury has left

The free mercury, I'd go along with.

*If mercury vapour is likely to be a threat, I suggest that to be
so you'd be at a temperature where mercury vapour would be the
least of your worries.

Mercury has a very low vapour pressure, therefore over a period of years
it will eventually disappear as it evaporates.

Dave

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:35:01 +0100, dave stanton
wrote:


Ah, thanks Dave / Rob.

And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?

All the best ..

T i m

Sort of. Its bound with oxygen as an oxide, it has to be ' reduced' by
chemical process to get the refined metal form.

All my A and ONC chemistry coming back now g.

Dave

Couldn't it be "re-bound" in some way, before landfill?

MM

Sort of. Its bound with oxygen as an oxide, it has to be ' reduced' by
chemical process to get the refined metal form.

Sort of. It's lead sulphide, not oxide.

Yes, your right


All my A and ONC chemistry coming back now g.

Did you pass? When did you take it?

Yes and too long ago 1970-74. Left chemistry soon after as the pay was
**** poor. Still is, thats why Chemistry depts are closing at all these
Uni's, no one wants to take chemistry when they can get more driving a bin
waggon.

Dave

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 20:25:26 +0100, "Henry" wrote:


And when it's in the ground in it's un-mined state is it 'safe'?


Mostly yes because it is deep under the ground. No poison is an problem if
it's out of the way. If you are a troglodyte then I suppose it might be an
issue.

It so makes me laugh, all this fuss about some things and not others.
I have just watched the second half of Channel 4's food programme and
we really must be the stupidest nation of shoppers on earth not to see
through the supermarkets' ruses to get us to buy, at considerably
inflated prices, "perfect" fruit and veg. The programme mentioned how
more and more kids are becoming obese and suffering more from
diabetes. In his School Meals series Jamie Oliver showed how kids fed
a nutritious meal cooked from fresh ingredients lost a lot of their
hyperactivity and became more teachable. We worry about lead leaching
into groundwater, but pay little heed to the thousands of gallons of
pesticide being sprayed on our food. Madness.

MM

I noticed a similar thing describing a product on www.scan.co.uk "Lead Free
(Pb)". (I guess, just in case you thought it was, umm, lead free. :-) )


(Not there today.)

Same as the bags of nuts ' This product may contain nuts ' !!!


Dave

On 1 Aug 2005 12:27:17 -0700, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote:


I don't think landfill is the problem but other more eurofriendly
methods of recycling. If these things are put in incinerators they all
produce harmful toxins that might easily reach the atmosphere.

I rather think the general trend is a move away from landfill. And as
for China, I think the move to more eco friendly ingredients would be a
lifesaver there, as old computer parts are sent to China where illegal
back street workshops maim (and even kill) hundreds if not thousands in
the recovery of lead solder from pcb boards.

One of the problems with pcb boards is the plethora of connections
that need soldering. We should have a lot more solid state devices
that can be snapped together without solder. Modern motherboards look
like they've been designed by that "Shakespeare" group of monkeys who
have taken time off from their rows of typewriters. When will a
"motherboard" be 1 inch square, consisting largely of take off points
for network, modem, printer, VDU etc, all moulded into, not soldered
onto, the package housing?

MM

In message , dave stanton
writes

Will boards be marked with the type of solder that has been used? I
can see compatibilty problems looming.

And of course I dont think China has signed up to this and where does most
electronic eqpt come from these days ?

And cheap solder

--
geoff

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:58:17 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Chris Bacon writes:
Chris McBrien wrote:
........ and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of Mercury in
them?
Yes, they're a mercury/silver/tin/copper/zinc amalgam. There's been
a "scare" about it for years.

There was a Dispatches, or Horizon, or similar on this probably
some 15 or more years ago. My recollection is that mercury
release to the environment from crematoria chimneys is actually
quite significant, at around 3g per person.

That's why the flue is fitted with an expensive "scrubber" (ooh-er!).

Apart from in Britain, of course...

MM

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
There was some discussion about removing fillings, but that doesn't work,
as after around 10 years, most of the mercury has left the filling amalgam
and lodged somewhere else in the body (the brain seems to absorb mercury
more than other body tissues).

It's good to find an explanation for one's stupidity. ;-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

MM wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Chris Bacon writes:
Chris McBrien wrote:
........ and aren't dental fillings made with a percentage of
Mercury in them?

Yes, they're a mercury/silver/tin/copper/zinc amalgam. There's been
a "scare" about it for years.

There was a Dispatches, or Horizon, or similar on this probably
some 15 or more years ago. My recollection is that mercury
release to the environment from crematoria chimneys is actually
quite significant, at around 3g per person.

That's why the flue is fitted with an expensive "scrubber" (ooh-er!).

Apart from in Britain, of course...

So there are no strictures? Emission of mercury vapour (etc.)
is legitimate? *I think not*.

In message , MM
writes
On 1 Aug 2005 12:27:17 -0700, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote:


I don't think landfill is the problem but other more eurofriendly
methods of recycling. If these things are put in incinerators they all
produce harmful toxins that might easily reach the atmosphere.

I rather think the general trend is a move away from landfill. And as
for China, I think the move to more eco friendly ingredients would be a
lifesaver there, as old computer parts are sent to China where illegal
back street workshops maim (and even kill) hundreds if not thousands in
the recovery of lead solder from pcb boards.

One of the problems with pcb boards is the plethora of connections
that need soldering. We should have a lot more solid state devices
that can be snapped together without solder. Modern motherboards look
like they've been designed by that "Shakespeare" group of monkeys who
have taken time off from their rows of typewriters. When will a
"motherboard" be 1 inch square, consisting largely of take off points
for network, modem, printer, VDU etc, all moulded into, not soldered
onto, the package housing?

I think you have a lot to learn grasshopper

--
geoff

dave stanton wrote:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:49:29 +0100, Chris Bacon wrote:


Rob Morley wrote:

Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

Hm. What compounds does it form when it "dissolves"?

Where does that leave us when there're churches,
cathederals, houses and blocks of garages all with
lead on their roofs!

? What is your answer to this?

Lead is a cumalative poison, that is it builds up in tissue in the body
and does not go away.

I don't think that was the answer that the OP was looking for.
Your answer was to a question that had not yet been asked. :-)

Dave In pedant mode. Sorry :-)

Rob Morley wrote:
Lead dissolves in acid rain and is washed into water courses, where
it kills things and can find its way back to us.

IIRC, the big problem at this time is not really lead in pcbs, but lead
in the glass of CRTs (to stop X rays) in landfill. I seem to remember a
figure of 250K tons/yr of lead being dumped from this source for the
USA, so I guess we'll have about the same amount across Europe.

Regards
Capitol

In article , says...
MM wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:

So there are no strictures? Emission of mercury vapour (etc.)
is legitimate? *I think not*.

Ah well, atm, there are no regulations relating to the emissions
of mercury from crematoria, but change is upon us...

The new regulations stipulate a maximum level of mercury
emissions, which will necessitate the installation of specialist
scrubbers, which cost lossa dosh - however, these scrubbers reduce the
output levels to way below the required limits.

The newly "clean" crematoria can then sell their unused quota of
allowable emissions to other crematoria, which have not installed the
new scrubbers...

I'm sure that that must make sense to somebody :-)

--
Regards,

Will.

In article ,
Chris Bacon writes:

That's why the flue is fitted with an expensive "scrubber" (ooh-er!).

Not to be confused with the old scrubber going up the flue...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In message , writes
On 1 Aug,
dave stanton wrote:


I noticed a similar thing describing a product on www.scan.co.uk "Lead
Free (Pb)". (I guess, just in case you thought it was, umm, lead free.
:-) )


(Not there today.)

Same as the bags of nuts ' This product may contain nuts ' !!!

And the allergy information on the milk bottle - "contains milk"


They do that to cover themselves ... perverts

--
geoff