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  #1   Report Post  
antgel
 
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Default Converting one-way light switch

Hi all,

I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it
difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I
modify the wiring?

Antony

  #2   Report Post  
 
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antgel wrote:
Hi all,

I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it
difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I
modify the wiring?

Antony


google 2 way switch to find a pic of the citcuit, then youl see
Or Maybe Ive misunderstood

NT

  #3   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"antgel" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it
difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I
modify the wiring?



This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last
few days... :~(


  #5   Report Post  
antgel
 
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Default

Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well
happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector
cables anyway.

So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch
to each of the two lights?



  #6   Report Post  
Sparks
 
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Default

"antgel" wrote in message
oups.com...
Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well
happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector
cables anyway.

So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch
to each of the two lights?

What cables are in the switch already?
If there is just a single cable (Containing a black or blue, red or brown
and bare wire) you will need to run another one of these from the switch
into the ceiling.

Can you get access to the light fittings from above?

Sparks...


  #7   Report Post  
Lobster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sparks wrote:
"antgel" wrote in message
oups.com...

Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well
happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector
cables anyway.

So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch
to each of the two lights?


What cables are in the switch already?
If there is just a single cable (Containing a black or blue, red or brown
and bare wire) you will need to run another one of these from the switch
into the ceiling.

Can you get access to the light fittings from above?


Also, what sort of fittings are there presently - ceiling roses or
something different? If you've got ceiling roses, how many cables are
wired in to each one? I'd expect one to have several (call this light
"A") and one to have just one cable (light "B") because B will simply be
piggy-backed on to light A, so that it goes on and off at the same time
as A.

You need to get a cable to run from light "B" all the way down to the
switch; and finally the 'piggy-back' cable connecting to light "A" needs
to be wired differently in order to energise light "B" continuously
rather than just when light "A" is switched on.

If you don't have roses, how many cables come through the ceiling - just
one for each fitting? If so, the connections will presumably be in
junction boxes above the ceiling, instead, and it's not so immediately
obvious which light is A and which is B.

David

  #8   Report Post  
antgel
 
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Default

We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I
want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic
knowledge of electrics.

  #9   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
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Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last
few days... :~(


How do you figure that?

I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this
question everytime someone asks it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #10   Report Post  
fred
 
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Default

In article .com
, antgel writes
We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I
want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic
knowledge of electrics.


Indeed you do, don't take it personally, a quick google on that poster's id
shows a tendency towards arrogance over helpfulness in posts to this
group; killfiled by me long ago.
--
fred


  #11   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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Default


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the

last
few days... :~(


How do you figure that?

I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this
question everytime someone asks it.


Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming
*after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously
doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking
how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be
realistic about their abilities...


  #12   Report Post  
dave stanton
 
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Default

On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:29:20 -0700, antgel wrote:

We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I
want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic
knowledge of electrics.


I bet he did his first house rewire when he was 2....

Dave

  #13   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last
few days... :~(


How do you figure that?

I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this
question everytime someone asks it.



Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming
*after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously
doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking
how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be
realistic about their abilities...


Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what
the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor
work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass
whichever way you look at it.

You do raise an intersting question however: How are we to be
"realistic" about our abilities without knowing where the limits of
those lay? How do we test where those are without actually attempting to
do something and reaching them? Surely reaching the limits of ones
abilities is not a significant event in itself, what we do next however
is significant (e.g. seek help, give up, press on regardless). In an
ideal world we could research every step of a job from start to finish
before starting, but the real world has a habit of not being so
deterministic.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #14   Report Post  
al
 
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Default

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news:427e63ba$0$2388$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-

Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming
*after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously
doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking
how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be
realistic about their abilities...


Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what the
OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how
is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you
look at it.


Enough already with the "past his abilities" stuff! ;P

I'm not entirely clueless and do understand basic safety with electricity.
I also know a fair bit about electricity at a slightly lower level from an
engineering degree many years ago. From that, I know I'm not likely to set
the neighbourhood alight by connecting a cable in a lighting circuit to see
what happens. I'm also not dumb enough to leave something in place if I
don't think it's right. Thus my original post.

The only reason I've run into difficulties here is because of impractical
house design and the impossibility of doing something right without
destroying my kitchen



a


  #15   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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Default


"dave stanton" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:29:20 -0700, antgel wrote:

We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows

that I
want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an

encyclopaedic
knowledge of electrics.


I bet he did his first house rewire when he was 2....


Five actually, I could get my hands were my father couldn't get his
own.....

But I don't call my self an expert by any means, although I've done
quite a bit of both domestic and 'industrial' [1] 3ph wiring - the one
thing I always do if I don't understand things is ask first before I
risk making mistakes that could prove fatal to others.

20 odd tears ago in a voluntary organisation.




  #16   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the

last
few days... :~(

How do you figure that?

I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this
question everytime someone asks it.



Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are

coming
*after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously
doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people

asking
how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be
realistic about their abilities...


Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since

what
the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor
work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass
whichever way you look at it.


Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


You do raise an intersting question however: How are we to be
"realistic" about our abilities without knowing where the limits of
those lay? How do we test where those are without actually

attempting to
do something and reaching them? Surely reaching the limits of ones
abilities is not a significant event in itself, what we do next

however
is significant (e.g. seek help, give up, press on regardless). In an
ideal world we could research every step of a job from start to

finish
before starting, but the real world has a habit of not being so
deterministic.


There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds
and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what
needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from
that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before
they start altering existing wiring.


  #17   Report Post  
al
 
Posts: n/a
Default

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...
There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds
and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what
needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from
that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before
they start altering existing wiring.


Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where one was
needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated. Unfortunately
the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There is no
part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from for this
switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried it ...
and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand.

My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main
junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to the
switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which I
fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area.



a


  #18   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
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"al" wrote in message
. uk...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...
There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched

feeds
and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with

what
needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit

from
that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more

before
they start altering existing wiring.


Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where

one was
needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated.

Unfortunately
the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There

is no
part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from

for this
switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried

it ...

That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could
not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this
'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned
out to be ?

and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense

of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand.


My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic
circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know...


My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main
junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to

the
switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which

I
fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area.


Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...


  #19   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"al" wrote in message
. uk...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...
There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched

feeds
and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with

what
needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit

from
that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more

before
they start altering existing wiring.


Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where

one was
needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated.

Unfortunately
the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There

is no
part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from

for this
switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried

it ...

That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could
not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this
'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned
out to be ?

and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense

of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand.


My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic
circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know...


My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main
junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to

the
switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which

I
fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area.


Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...


  #20   Report Post  
BigWallop
 
Posts: n/a
Default


":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"al" wrote in message
. uk...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...
There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched

feeds
and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with

what
needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit

from
that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more

before
they start altering existing wiring.


Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where

one was
needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated.

Unfortunately
the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There

is no
part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from

for this
switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried

it ...

That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could
not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this
'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned
out to be ?

and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense

of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand.


My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic
circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know...


My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main
junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to

the
switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which

I
fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area.


Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...



So glad you said it twice. I missed it first time. :-)




  #21   Report Post  
al
 
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Default

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
news.net...
That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could
not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this
'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned
out to be ?

Not really ... I know enough not to be stupid.


and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense

of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand.


My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic
circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know...


There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or Googling a
bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of trying
what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying.

Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...


Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a sh*t-load of
other stuff needing urgent attention!!



a


  #22   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"al" wrote in message
. uk...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
news.net...
That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said

could
not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this
'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it

turned
out to be ?

Not really ... I know enough not to be stupid.


Well, that is a mater of opinion - bad drivers never consider
themselves as bad drivers...



and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make

sense
of what
I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly

understand.

My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then

basic
circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know...


There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or

Googling a
bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of

trying
what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying.


How did you know this, yet you didn't know that what you were doing
would not work, sorry but you are adding two plus two and coming up
with five as the answer IMO...


Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...


Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a

sh*t-load of
other stuff needing urgent attention!!


Well at least you know how to do something right, or was that also an
accident waiting to happen ?!...


  #23   Report Post  
antgel
 
Posts: n/a
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what
the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor
work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass
whichever way you look at it.


Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


No. I was the OP and my post about converting a light switch to
two-gang has nothing to do with a kitchen. al replied to the wrong
thread, making all of the subsequent replies very confusing.

Antony
  #24   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
...ask first before I
risk making mistakes that could prove fatal to others.


That's very considerate. I'd encourage you to ask before making mistakes
which could prove fatal to yourself too.

20 odd tears ago in a voluntary organisation.


:-)

Owain


  #25   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor
work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass
whichever way you look at it.



Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


You are right, I missed that.

Still, who cares?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #26   Report Post  
 
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al wrote:
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message


There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or

Googling a
bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of

trying
what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying.


I agree with Al on this one. As long as you know not to connect L or N
to the E, on a lighting circuit you could pretty well connect the other
wires up at random and not cause a danger. A handy feature of lighting
circuits for newbies.


Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need
redecorating...


Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a sh*t-load

of
other stuff needing urgent attention!!


Reality decides the day.


NT

  #27   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a

minor
work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass
whichever way you look at it.



Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


You are right, I missed that.

Still, who cares?


The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason
there are set colours for conductors etc., I know what I've done, you
know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has done
IYSWIM.


  #28   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
..


Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


You are right, I missed that.

Still, who cares?


The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason
there are set colours for conductors etc., I know what I've done, you
know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has

done
IYSWIM.


I know what I've done... but often forget it after a while. I've been
right puzzled by former work on rare occasions.

There would be many accidents if we didnt use standard conductor colour
codes, but not using part p wouldnt cause any such increase.


NT

  #29   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ?


You are right, I missed that.


In fact it was not the OP who added "kitchen" to the question... so
outside of part taking the Pee...

Still, who cares?


The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason
there are set colours for conductors etc.,


I can think of a good few reasons for having set colours other than that!

I know what I've done, you
know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has done
IYSWIM.


Well if we both do it to BS7671 then there is not going to be a problem
is there?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #30   Report Post  
al
 
Posts: n/a
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"antgel" wrote in message
...
No. I was the OP and my post about converting a light switch to
two-gang has nothing to do with a kitchen. al replied to the wrong
thread, making all of the subsequent replies very confusing.


I've just noticed that .... *scratches head* ...

and to think ... Jerry might love me after all ;o)




a


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