http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/farrell032905.html


Accident Survivor: 'Please Let Them Be Coming for Me'

BY PETER FARRELL
c.2005 Newhouse News Service

\


PORTLAND, Ore. -- "You're in a car going off a bridge -- you think
you're done," Melissa Borgaard says.

But at least 55 feet deep in the Willamette River, she began to think
she might survive her 60-foot fall from the Morrison Bridge in downtown
Portland. She struggled to release her seat belt and got to the water's
surface.

She could hear cheers from a crowd along the river wall. Floating on her
back in the fast current to save energy, she also heard sirens.

"They've got to be coming for me," she told herself. "Please let them be
coming for me."

They were.

People were amazed she survived Saturday and surprised that by Sunday --
bruised and scratched and hurting but not seriously injured -- she
walked out of the hospital and recounted her ordeal in an interview.

No one was more surprised than Borgaard, 31, that she kept her wits in
what was, even in a city of bridges, a spectacular accident.

The legal secretary talked about her fears and near-drowning, both to
thank her rescuers and to tell the world she is a good driver who was
aware of the traffic around her, was not speeding, was alone in the car
and was not distracted by talking to her sister, Alicia, on her
hands-free phone about dinner plans as she drove to a downtown hair
appointment.

"It was no different than if she had been sitting next to me," she said.

Alicia heard her cry "Oh! Oh!" before the phone went dead. She knew
something had happened but didn't know where. She started tracking
Melissa's movements to find her.

By then, Melissa was underwater.

The bridge surface's wet grating had felt as if she were driving on ice,
she said. As she began to slide and quickly steered to avoid a nearby
car, she overcorrected. Then she felt as if she had been launched from a
slingshot. "There wasn't anything I could do" as the back end of her SUV
swung around and sent her flying, she said.

She first crashed through the bridge safety railing. That impact
probably smashed her windshield. If it hadn't, she suspects, she would
have died, trapped in her car.

Her air bag deployed as she went off the bridge, blocking her view as
she fell toward the water. "I couldn't see, so maybe it wasn't as scary
as it could have been." She knew she was going off the bridge but had no
way to time a last breath before she hit.

Her car quickly sank to the river bottom, and darkness closed in faster
than she could believe. The Vancouver, Wash., woman decided she wasn't
meant to die after all.

"I struggled a little bit with my seat belt, and I thought, `This can't
be it,"' she said. "I thought, `OK, where am I at? I need to figure out
where my seat belt is."'

She felt for her door handle and located her belt release, not thinking
that she wouldn't be able to open her door against the pressure of the
water.

The car filled almost instantly. "By the time I got out of my seat
belt," she said, "I was already sort of floating upward," apparently
through the smashed-out windshield.

She saw light through the dark, dirty water she was trying not to
swallow, then more light. "Finally, I popped up."

She heard people cheering from the river bank, where several people with
cell phones had called 9-1-1 seconds after Borgaard went off the bridge.
She could not hear any of the people who were yelling for her to stop
swimming and to float on her back. But she soon decided that was all she
could do.

"I tried to tread water for a couple of minutes, but I was just so
tired," she said. "I don't know whether it was from struggling trying to
get out (of the SUV) or not being able to breathe, or the temperature of
the water or what, but I was exhausted and couldn't breathe, and I just
floated on my back."

Rich Tyler, a dive team rescue swimmer stationed at the Portland Fire
Bureau's main station a few blocks away, was lowered down the 20-foot
bank and swam about 100 yards to get Borgaard onto a Multnomah County
sheriff's boat that also came to the rescue.

"I really appreciated his effort," Borgaard said. "I don't think I was
ever shaken so bad in my life."

Marine deputies from the sheriff's office and the Fire Bureau dive team
will meet this week to decide about raising the car, which they may use
for a training session.

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

March 29, 2005


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

The legal secretary talked about her fears and near-drowning, both to
thank her rescuers and to tell the world she is a good driver who was
aware of the traffic around her, was not speeding, was alone in the car
and was not distracted by talking to her sister, Alicia, on her
hands-free phone about dinner plans as she drove to a downtown hair
appointment.

She sure proved hopw good a driver she was

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

Jim


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On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, jim rozen wrote:

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

At least she was sober, Jim. It's the drunks at 2:am in the
cold rain that annoy the hell out of me. I don't mind kneeling
in a muddy ditch for someone who just screwed up, but when they
screwed up because they're drunk, well, it's less fun.

On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

You mean all those rescue workers who regularly monitor and
participate in three or four (or five...) radio conversations at a
time? Their police or fire department's Dispatch channel, their
Tactical channel, the scanner to pick up what other regional services
are doing (which can count as a dozen or more), and perhaps a CB? And
the AM/FM for traffic reports? And perhaps that little beeping LoJack
receiver even... While /they're/ driving?

Give me a break. ^_^

Been there, done that, still have all the radios mounted in my
LandCruiser - I spent 15 years on a rescue team. I'll take a single
handsfree cellphone call being the sole distraction ANY DAY as far
safer than handling the average Policeman, Fireman or rescue worker's
radio load.

The factor nobody keyed in on was that she was driving on steel
bridge deck grating, not normal asphalt or concrete paving. Those
surfaces are as slippery as greased snot when wet, especially in a
light vehicle with a lot of lightly loaded rubber on the road. If
your vehicle is the tiniest bit unstable (like from making an
emergency lane change) you might as well be driving a Dodgem Bumper
Car at the local carnival, or one of Alice's Teacups at Disneyland.
You're spinning.

And a normal passenger sized SUV shouldn't be punching through or
going over the guard railings of the bridge and into the drink nearly
that easily - unless she was in a raised-to-the-sky Hummer H2 or Ford
Excretio^w Excursion 4X4 with 33's on it, she should have bounced back
into the roadway.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

Jim


The legal secretary talked about her fears and near-drowning, both to
thank her rescuers and to tell the world she is a good driver who was
aware of the traffic around her, was not speeding, was alone in the car
and was not distracted by talking to her sister, Alicia, on her
hands-free phone about dinner plans as she drove to a downtown hair
appointment.

"It was no different than if she had been sitting next to me," she said.

Alicia heard her cry "Oh! Oh!" before the phone went dead. She knew
something had happened but didn't know where. She started tracking
Melissa's movements to find her.

By then, Melissa was underwater.

The bridge surface's wet grating had felt as if she were driving on ice,
she said. As she began to slide and quickly steered to avoid a nearby
car, she overcorrected. Then she felt as if she had been launched from a
slingshot. "There wasn't anything I could do" as the back end of her SUV
swung around and sent her flying, she said.

Shrug.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:28:48 GMT, Bruce L Bergman wrote:
On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

You mean all those rescue workers who regularly monitor and
participate in three or four (or five...) radio conversations at a
time?

I don't know any of those, sorry. Dispatch maybe?

Their police or fire department's Dispatch channel, their
Tactical channel, the scanner to pick up what other regional services
are doing (which can count as a dozen or more), and perhaps a CB? And
the AM/FM for traffic reports? And perhaps that little beeping LoJack
receiver even... While /they're/ driving?

(shrug) Dunno. Our radios in the rig are set to scan with priority
on the talk-to-county channel. The driver drives, the guy in the other
front seat talks on the radio. Maybe we just do it wrong?

Been there, done that, still have all the radios mounted in my
LandCruiser - I spent 15 years on a rescue team. I'll take a single
handsfree cellphone call being the sole distraction ANY DAY as far
safer than handling the average Policeman, Fireman or rescue worker's
radio load.

But how much are you really on the radio? It's just noise in the
background for the most part, and the driver isn't doing the talking
anyway. In the ambo, it's the crew leader (or the designated whoever)
talking to the hospital, and in the trucks, it's the guy in the right
hand seat. But maybe that's just us.

The factor nobody keyed in on was that she was driving on steel
bridge deck grating, not normal asphalt or concrete paving. Those
surfaces are as slippery as greased snot when wet, especially in a
light vehicle with a lot of lightly loaded rubber on the road.

Yes. And she was in an SUV, which aren't known for stability in the
first place.

And a normal passenger sized SUV shouldn't be punching through or
going over the guard railings of the bridge and into the drink nearly
that easily - unless she was in a raised-to-the-sky Hummer H2 or Ford
Excretio^w Excursion 4X4 with 33's on it, she should have bounced back
into the roadway.

I noticed the whole "how she got through or over the guardrail" part
didn't seem to get a lot of attention. I would think that if she was
driving with traffic, she should be at a speed the guardrails were
designed for. Dunno. Sounds like not-fun, though.

Dave Hinz

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:28:48 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

You mean all those rescue workers who regularly monitor and
participate in three or four (or five...) radio conversations at a
time? Their police or fire department's Dispatch channel, their
Tactical channel, the scanner to pick up what other regional services
are doing (which can count as a dozen or more), and perhaps a CB? And
the AM/FM for traffic reports? And perhaps that little beeping LoJack
receiver even... While /they're/ driving?

Give me a break. ^_^

Been there, done that, still have all the radios mounted in my
LandCruiser - I spent 15 years on a rescue team. I'll take a single
handsfree cellphone call being the sole distraction ANY DAY as far
safer than handling the average Policeman, Fireman or rescue worker's
radio load.

The factor nobody keyed in on was that she was driving on steel
bridge deck grating, not normal asphalt or concrete paving. Those
surfaces are as slippery as greased snot when wet, especially in a
light vehicle with a lot of lightly loaded rubber on the road. If
your vehicle is the tiniest bit unstable (like from making an
emergency lane change) you might as well be driving a Dodgem Bumper
Car at the local carnival, or one of Alice's Teacups at Disneyland.
You're spinning.

And a normal passenger sized SUV shouldn't be punching through or
going over the guard railings of the bridge and into the drink nearly
that easily - unless she was in a raised-to-the-sky Hummer H2 or Ford
Excretio^w Excursion 4X4 with 33's on it, she should have bounced back
into the roadway.

-- Bruce --


Bruce called it 100%

Jim of all people should be aware of this sort of road bed danger.
Those sorts of bridges are a nightmare for scooter riders. Freeway
overpasses on cold wet windy nights are nearly as bad as the ice that
forms on them is both invisible and unexpected.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article , Gunner says...

Jim of all people should be aware of this sort of road bed danger.
Those sorts of bridges are a nightmare for scooter riders. Freeway
overpasses on cold wet windy nights are nearly as bad as the ice that
forms on them is both invisible and unexpected.

Sure. This is why I don't talk on a cell phone. Bad conditions
or otherwise. I have too much respect for the other road users.

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

Jim


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On 31 Mar 2005 06:14:27 -0800, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake:

In article , Gunner says...

After what she's been through, Borgaard said, she isn't too worried
about the car.

Yeah but her cell phone got all wet!

I'm sure all those rescue workers were pleased they
had to fish somebody out of the river because they
were yakking on the phone and just drove off the
road.

I like the part where she said "Where am I AT?" A legal secretary
with no English language skills? Perfect! Now watch her boss sue
the SUV manufacturer, the bridge builder, the tire company, the
grating company, the telephone company, the telephone manufacturer,
and the City. Ain't "civilized life" wunnerful?

Darwin should have taken her.


----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
================================================== ==

On 31 Mar 2005 10:12:09 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Jim of all people should be aware of this sort of road bed danger.
Those sorts of bridges are a nightmare for scooter riders. Freeway
overpasses on cold wet windy nights are nearly as bad as the ice that
forms on them is both invisible and unexpected.

Sure. This is why I don't talk on a cell phone. Bad conditions
or otherwise. I have too much respect for the other road users.

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

Jim

And if the same thing had happened in a vehicle with no cell phone?

Would you then commit seppuku?

No other similar accidents have occured on this bridge that didnt
involve cell phones?

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article , Gunner says...

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

And if the same thing had happened in a vehicle with no cell phone?

Ah but it didn't. Why don't you call the lady on her cell
phone and ask if she's going to be yakking away during a
rainstorm while driving over bridges, in the future?

Jim


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==================================================

In article , Larry Jaques says...

I like the part where she said "Where am I AT?" A legal secretary
with no English language skills? Perfect! Now watch her boss sue
the SUV manufacturer, the bridge builder, the tire company, the
grating company, the telephone company, the telephone manufacturer,
and the City. Ain't "civilized life" wunnerful?

Nope, tort reform has shut her down on that. I love that the
cell-phone wielding, SUV driving, republicans now can't sue
each other.

Jim


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In article ,
Gunner wrote:

jim rozen wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Jim of all people should be aware of this sort of road bed danger.
Those sorts of bridges are a nightmare for scooter riders. Freeway
overpasses on cold wet windy nights are nearly as bad as the ice that
forms on them is both invisible and unexpected.

Sure. This is why I don't talk on a cell phone. Bad conditions
or otherwise. I have too much respect for the other road users.

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

Jim

And if the same thing had happened in a vehicle with no cell phone?

Would you then commit seppuku?

No other similar accidents have occured on this bridge that didnt
involve cell phones?

Yes, there have been other incidents on that bridge that involve the
slippery surface. (I live in Portland). Lane changes are prohibited on
the steel grating part because of the reduced traction. Of course, not
everyone obeys, and many drivers seem oblivious to why they need to slow
down and not make sudden maneuvers. A few years ago a pedestrian was
crushed and killed by a driver who made that type of error.

Steel gratings are used on such bridges because it provides much less
roadway mass, a big help in designing an opening bridge. Personally,
I'd like to see more emphasis on raising the standards for driver
competence than attempting to engineer away all hazards. Driving is
*not* a right, and penalties for causing injury and death are laughably
light for drivers. The person who "lost control" and killed the
pedestrian was fined for careless driving. A better outcome would be to
confiscate the car, crush it, remove driving privileges and compensate
for the death. Saying "It was an accident" doesn't cut it.

Ted

--
Ted Bennett
Portland, OR

In article , Ted
says...

Steel gratings are used on such bridges because it provides much less
roadway mass, a big help in designing an opening bridge. Personally,
I'd like to see more emphasis on raising the standards for driver
competence than attempting to engineer away all hazards. Driving is
*not* a right, and penalties for causing injury and death are laughably
light for drivers. The person who "lost control" and killed the
pedestrian was fined for careless driving. A better outcome would be to
confiscate the car, crush it, remove driving privileges and compensate
for the death. Saying "It was an accident" doesn't cut it.

Yep. And the driver in question paid for her stupidity in driving
disctracted (cell phone) by forfeiting her car. Best of all it
wasn't the state that confiscated it, but mr. Newton's laws!

Jim


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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ted
says...

Steel gratings are used on such bridges because it provides much less
roadway mass, a big help in designing an opening bridge. Personally,
I'd like to see more emphasis on raising the standards for driver
competence than attempting to engineer away all hazards. Driving is
*not* a right, and penalties for causing injury and death are laughably
light for drivers. The person who "lost control" and killed the
pedestrian was fined for careless driving. A better outcome would be to
confiscate the car, crush it, remove driving privileges and compensate
for the death. Saying "It was an accident" doesn't cut it.

Yep. And the driver in question paid for her stupidity in driving
disctracted (cell phone) by forfeiting her car. Best of all it
wasn't the state that confiscated it, but mr. Newton's laws!

Jim

I have a hunch her insurance company will bear the brunt of her
actions----unless her lane change lets them off the hook. There's bold
signs on the bridges advising that lane changes are not permitted. I've
driven the bridge on rare occasions. It's not exactly in our neighborhood,
but we get to Portland a few times each year.

Harold

On 1 Apr 2005 11:34:26 -0800, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake:

In article , Ted
says...

Steel gratings are used on such bridges because it provides much less
roadway mass, a big help in designing an opening bridge. Personally,
I'd like to see more emphasis on raising the standards for driver
competence than attempting to engineer away all hazards. Driving is
*not* a right, and penalties for causing injury and death are laughably
light for drivers. The person who "lost control" and killed the
pedestrian was fined for careless driving. A better outcome would be to
confiscate the car, crush it, remove driving privileges and compensate
for the death. Saying "It was an accident" doesn't cut it.

Yep. And the driver in question paid for her stupidity in driving
disctracted (cell phone) by forfeiting her car. Best of all it
wasn't the state that confiscated it, but mr. Newton's laws!

No, it's everyone who buys insurance that will end up paying for the
car, Jim. She'll surely get a settlement from the ins co. sigh
JUSTICE would put her in a bus for a year to think about her
stupidity, and perhaps a mandatory driving school should be added to
that "sentence."


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The Clintons. + Website & Graphic Design
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In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

I have a hunch her insurance company will bear the brunt of her
actions----unless her lane change lets them off the hook. There's bold
signs on the bridges advising that lane changes are not permitted. I've
driven the bridge on rare occasions. It's not exactly in our neighborhood,
but we get to Portland a few times each year.

If insurance companies start to realized that driving while phoning
is nearly the same thing as driving drunk, they'll be sure to make
some kind of change to their policies...

Jim


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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:43:38 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

On 31 Mar 2005 10:12:09 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Jim of all people should be aware of this sort of road bed danger.
Those sorts of bridges are a nightmare for scooter riders. Freeway
overpasses on cold wet windy nights are nearly as bad as the ice that
forms on them is both invisible and unexpected.

Sure. This is why I don't talk on a cell phone. Bad conditions
or otherwise. I have too much respect for the other road users.

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

Jim

And if the same thing had happened in a vehicle with no cell phone?

But it didn't, did it? It merely made a bad driver worse, and she
still doesn't get it. That's the worst part...if she doesn't sue
(for her negligence.)


Would you then commit seppuku?

No other similar accidents have occured on this bridge that didnt
involve cell phones?

Why was it a ONE-car accident, Gunner, if the bridge was so iced up
and unsafe? How many other accidents happened there within the hour?
I'll give you odds that it was her screwup alone.


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Jim

I'm a native Portlander and the metal grating on the Morrison Street
bridge is legendary for its slickness. Even a thick fog will make it
treacherous. It's an unusually large mesh (maybe 4" on center
triangles), so you don't have much tire on any surface. I've run across
it during a foot race and it's frightening. I'd never ride a bike on it.
If she was changing lanes, breaking, or coming onto the bridge from one
of the curving on ramps, she could easily have lost it. People spin and
crash on that bridge all the time. A few years back a motorcyclist slid,
fell off his bike and ground all the way though his right elbow before
he stopped. I think the main difference between this accident and all
the others (and there are several each winter on that bridge) is that
the SUV was tall enough to go over the top of the 3' railing. She was
damned lucky, though, that water is cold this time of year (lot of snow
melt) and has a serious current.

Jim

In article , Jim McGill says...

Jim

I'm a native Portlander and the metal grating on the Morrison Street
bridge is legendary for its slickness. Even a thick fog will make it
treacherous. It's an unusually large mesh (maybe 4" on center
triangles), so you don't have much tire on any surface. ...

This sounds like many of the grating bridges I ride across.
There's one like this on the way into work - and I much prefer
taking my dual-sport bike on it rather than the street bikes.

However, this just makes her actions seem *worse* to me.
If she did know about the hazardous conditions, shouldn't
she have hung up the darn phone?

Jim


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On 1 Apr 2005 09:03:50 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Bottom line is, she screwed up. She almost died. Next time
I bet she'll leave the phone alone. Darwin *almost* worked there.

And if the same thing had happened in a vehicle with no cell phone?

Ah but it didn't. Why don't you call the lady on her cell
phone and ask if she's going to be yakking away during a
rainstorm while driving over bridges, in the future?

Jim

Got any cites that no other similar accidents have occured on that
bridge? Just those where the driver had no cell phone will do.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:43:01 GMT, Ted
wrote:


Yes, there have been other incidents on that bridge that involve the
slippery surface. (I live in Portland). Lane changes are prohibited on
the steel grating part because of the reduced traction. Of course, not
everyone obeys, and many drivers seem oblivious to why they need to slow
down and not make sudden maneuvers. A few years ago a pedestrian was
crushed and killed by a driver who made that type of error.

According to Jim, there had to have been a cell phone involved in each
of those accidents.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:52:03 -0800, Jim McGill
wrote:

Jim

I'm a native Portlander and the metal grating on the Morrison Street
bridge is legendary for its slickness. Even a thick fog will make it
treacherous. It's an unusually large mesh (maybe 4" on center
triangles), so you don't have much tire on any surface. I've run across
it during a foot race and it's frightening. I'd never ride a bike on it.
If she was changing lanes, breaking, or coming onto the bridge from one
of the curving on ramps, she could easily have lost it. People spin and
crash on that bridge all the time. A few years back a motorcyclist slid,
fell off his bike and ground all the way though his right elbow before
he stopped. I think the main difference between this accident and all
the others (and there are several each winter on that bridge) is that
the SUV was tall enough to go over the top of the 3' railing. She was
damned lucky, though, that water is cold this time of year (lot of snow
melt) and has a serious current.

Jim

The guy on the motorcycle was on a cell phone, right?

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article , Gunner says...

Got any cites that no other similar accidents have occured on that
bridge? Just those where the driver had no cell phone will do.

I was only pointing out that the bridge is a known trouble spot.
You would think that somebody who was from the area would respect
that and hang up the phone.

Jim


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In article , Gunner says...

According to Jim, there had to have been a cell phone involved in each
of those accidents.

Gunner, if I'm in heavy traffic on the parkway, I don't try to eat
a cheeseburger at the same time. This is just plain common sense.
Likewise the lady who chose to call her bridge club buddy at the
*worst* possible time. She should have "just said no."

Jim


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On 2 Apr 2005 05:18:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Got any cites that no other similar accidents have occured on that
bridge? Just those where the driver had no cell phone will do.

I was only pointing out that the bridge is a known trouble spot.
You would think that somebody who was from the area would respect
that and hang up the phone.

Jim

So you are finally admiting that accidents occur on the bridge, even
without cell phones being involved?

So what makes you sure that the cell phone in this case was the
proximate cause of the accident?

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

On 2 Apr 2005 05:19:50 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

According to Jim, there had to have been a cell phone involved in each
of those accidents.

Gunner, if I'm in heavy traffic on the parkway, I don't try to eat
a cheeseburger at the same time. This is just plain common sense.
Likewise the lady who chose to call her bridge club buddy at the
*worst* possible time. She should have "just said no."

Jim

So she was dialing the number when the accident occurred?

When you cross the bridge yourself, do you insist that all occupants
in the vehicle shut up?

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 16:57:02 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

On 2 Apr 2005 05:18:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Got any cites that no other similar accidents have occured on that
bridge? Just those where the driver had no cell phone will do.

I was only pointing out that the bridge is a known trouble spot.
You would think that somebody who was from the area would respect
that and hang up the phone.

And slow down, and pay attention, and obey the signs, and...


So you are finally admiting that accidents occur on the bridge, even
without cell phones being involved?

So what makes you sure that the cell phone in this case was the
proximate cause of the accident?

She was talking on the phone (distraction) while attempting to do a
reckless lane change under unsafe conditions on a known dangerous
area. What makes you think it WASN'T the proximate cause?


Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

Darwin flubbed this one with her. She lived and may kill someone else
the next time she pulls cute tricks like that.


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In article , Gunner says...

So what makes you sure that the cell phone in this case was the
proximate cause of the accident?

If you really want to find out what the lady thinks, give her a
call and ask her point-blank if she thinks she wants to talk on
her phone during dicey driving conditions, in the future.

Sure she might say "oh, that had nothing to do with it at all."

Sometimes a trip on Newton's "Express Down Elevator" will change
one's viewpoint a bit though.

Jim


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In article , Gunner says...

When you cross the bridge yourself, do you insist that all occupants
in the vehicle shut up?

I'll tell you one thing, if I get into heavy traffic, which requires
high alertness, I stop talking to folks in the car. I've been
accused of rudeness once or twice under those conditions.

Mostly though the passengers (if they drive themselves) realize
what's going on and shut up.

I maintain this is a primary reason why cell phone conversations
degrade apparent driving skills: the party on the other end of
the line does not have their skin at risk.

Jim


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In article , Larry Jaques says...

She was talking on the phone (distraction) while attempting to do a
reckless lane change under unsafe conditions on a known dangerous
area. What makes you think it WASN'T the proximate cause?

Sure it wasn't the only cause. As others have suggested, only a
very tall, heavy SUV would have gone over the rail into the drink.

As a motorycle rider, I have a policy that I want *all* the advantages
in my court. So I wear protective gear, I don't ever drink and ride,
I enhance my visibility as much as possible, there are certain
roads I avoid. And so on.

Point is that any *one* thing might make only a two percent difference
in the probability of my getting hurt. But I WANT that two percent,
and the next two, and so on. I want all the advantages I can reasonably
get.

Sure having a 50 watt brake light instead of a 15 watt one might seem
like a small deal. Does it give me a tiny edge against being rear-ended
in traffic? If that's one percent, I want it. Do the extra marker lights
in back help? Might be another one percent.

The lady in question might not have gone over the edge if she had realized
what was going on sooner, and slowed down. And the distraction of yakking
on the phone did not help, I know that.

To put it another way, the race is not *always* to the swift, or the
fight to the strong. But that's the way you bet.

Jim


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On 2 Apr 2005 10:25:46 -0800, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

When you cross the bridge yourself, do you insist that all occupants
in the vehicle shut up?

I'll tell you one thing, if I get into heavy traffic, which requires
high alertness, I stop talking to folks in the car. I've been
accused of rudeness once or twice under those conditions.

Mostly though the passengers (if they drive themselves) realize
what's going on and shut up.

I maintain this is a primary reason why cell phone conversations
degrade apparent driving skills: the party on the other end of
the line does not have their skin at risk.

Jim

To be fair, When I get into a difficult situation (unknown road layout, poor
signs etc.) I yell at the wife and kids to shut up.

Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 23:38:20 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On 2 Apr 2005 10:25:46 -0800, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

When you cross the bridge yourself, do you insist that all occupants
in the vehicle shut up?

I'll tell you one thing, if I get into heavy traffic, which requires
high alertness, I stop talking to folks in the car. I've been
accused of rudeness once or twice under those conditions.

Mostly though the passengers (if they drive themselves) realize
what's going on and shut up.

I maintain this is a primary reason why cell phone conversations
degrade apparent driving skills: the party on the other end of
the line does not have their skin at risk.

Jim

To be fair, When I get into a difficult situation (unknown road layout, poor
signs etc.) I yell at the wife and kids to shut up.

Mark Rand
RTFM

As a street bike rider, I'm always extremely aware of th' dangers
looming in traffic. When th' family is in th' cage, it's pretty much
a whisper or silence. I hate distractions. I take driving very
serious and sure as hell wish more people would do so as well.

My solution is to have triple edged, razor sharp, barbed, serrated
daggers coming out of th' steering wheel, pointed at th' drivers
heart. They screw up, hook a tow truck up to whatever's left and haul
it, carcass and all, to th' crusher.

No seat belt laws, no cell phone laws, no speeding enforcement, just
pure Darwinism should do 'er.

Snarl... stupidity should be painful

On 2 Apr 2005 10:25:46 -0800, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake:

In article , Gunner says...

When you cross the bridge yourself, do you insist that all occupants
in the vehicle shut up?

I'll tell you one thing, if I get into heavy traffic, which requires
high alertness, I stop talking to folks in the car. I've been
accused of rudeness once or twice under those conditions.

I just give a quiet "OH ****!", white knuckle the steering wheel,
and open my eyes wide while touching the brake once or twice.
That shuts 'em up in a hurry. eg


Mostly though the passengers (if they drive themselves) realize
what's going on and shut up.

I don't look at people I'm talking to in the vehicle, either. If
they think that's rude, see what they think of an accident because
someone wasn't watching where they were going. Moms/dads with rioting
kids in the car are just like phone-calling drivers: inattentive to
driving.


I maintain this is a primary reason why cell phone conversations
degrade apparent driving skills: the party on the other end of
the line does not have their skin at risk.

And the listener won't use common sense enough to pull over to talk
or to tell them goodbye and hang up.


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In article ,
says...

As a street bike rider, I'm always extremely aware of th' dangers
looming in traffic. When th' family is in th' cage, it's pretty much
a whisper or silence. I hate distractions. I take driving very
serious and sure as hell wish more people would do so as well.

I always thought that if I were to open an insurance agency,
I would only sell car insurance to motorbike riders. :^)

My solution is to have triple edged, razor sharp, barbed, serrated
daggers coming out of th' steering wheel, pointed at th' drivers
heart. They screw up, hook a tow truck up to whatever's left and haul
it, carcass and all, to th' crusher.

No seat belt laws, no cell phone laws, no speeding enforcement, just
pure Darwinism should do 'er.

Yep. Get rid of the airbags, ABS, etc.

That lady who went for a dunking now understands what it's like
to screw up. The "ohnosec" which is the instant between when
you realize you screwed up, and the moment between when you realize
the natural consequences of your actions are *inevitable*.

Jim


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wrote:

As a street bike rider, I'm always extremely aware of th' dangers
looming in traffic. When th' family is in th' cage, it's pretty much
a whisper or silence. I hate distractions. I take driving very
serious and sure as hell wish more people would do so as well.

My solution is to have triple edged, razor sharp, barbed, serrated
daggers coming out of th' steering wheel, pointed at th' drivers
heart. They screw up, hook a tow truck up to whatever's left and haul
it, carcass and all, to th' crusher.

No seat belt laws, no cell phone laws, no speeding enforcement, just
pure Darwinism should do 'er.

Snarl... stupidity should be painful

Hmmm. Every instance of "the" spelled as "th'".

Harley rider, right? Big beer belly too? grin

--
Ted Bennett
Portland, OR

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:38:24 GMT, Ted
wrote:

wrote:

As a street bike rider, I'm always extremely aware of th' dangers
looming in traffic. When th' family is in th' cage, it's pretty much
a whisper or silence. I hate distractions. I take driving very
serious and sure as hell wish more people would do so as well.

My solution is to have triple edged, razor sharp, barbed, serrated
daggers coming out of th' steering wheel, pointed at th' drivers
heart. They screw up, hook a tow truck up to whatever's left and haul
it, carcass and all, to th' crusher.

No seat belt laws, no cell phone laws, no speeding enforcement, just
pure Darwinism should do 'er.

Snarl... stupidity should be painful

Hmmm. Every instance of "the" spelled as "th'".

I type like I talk. I don't say the, phonetically sounding as
"thee". It's just one of my many flaws g.

Harley rider, right?

Heh, heh, yes and no. I've ridden most every brand out there, and
ride with friends who did/do th' same. I don't care what folks ride
as long as they're competent, sober, and know what their
abilities/limitations are. It's all good.

Th' main reason I started lurking in rcm was because I have a
proprietary sand cast and machined aluminum high flow air intake
system for Harley's tho. Trying to learn a few new tricks in here,
and I have. This is a great bunch. Thanks.

Big beer belly too? grin

No Sir. 50mumblesumpthin' years old and I'm still wearing th' same
sized pants as I did in high school, 32" w 34" inseam. My wife thinks
I have worms.

Snarl

In article ,
says...

No Sir. 50mumblesumpthin' years old and I'm still wearing th' same
sized pants as I did in high school, 32" w 34" inseam. My wife thinks
I have worms.

Well ya got me there. I wore a 34x34 and still do also. I remember
you from rmh I think. Have one on me (do they still do that?).

Jim


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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 09:40:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


So you are finally admiting that accidents occur on the bridge, even
without cell phones being involved?

So what makes you sure that the cell phone in this case was the
proximate cause of the accident?

She was talking on the phone (distraction) while attempting to do a
reckless lane change under unsafe conditions on a known dangerous
area. What makes you think it WASN'T the proximate cause?

She was also wearing panty hose while attempting to do a reckless lane
change under unsafe conditions on a known dangerous area.

It was the panty hose. You know it, I know it.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"