Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Dan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cleaning carbon off of aluminum?

I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan


  #2   Report Post  
Bushy Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20 air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan




  #3   Report Post  
Q
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bushy Pete" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and

cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that

has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice crystals.


I have tried this on some old packaging machines for food products.... This
kicked some serious *ss and wasnt nearly as messy as sandblasting would have
been.. The dry ice blasting didnt leave a scratch on the stainless steel
surfaces, but it might damage the aluminum pans...

Normally I'd suggest ammonia or sodium hydroxide for this type of cleaning,
but that would work too well on aluminum ( sodium hydroxide can corrode
aluminum )

Another trick that might be worth looking into is liquid nitrogen... I have
seen it used on food processing equipment.. Freeze the object to be cleaned
and brush off the dirt...

Otoh.. I might be more cost effective just replacing the pans..

/peter


  #4   Report Post  
Jerry Martes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20 air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that
has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan






  #5   Report Post  
ATP*
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:fpf1e.18041$wL6.15138@trnddc03...
Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry

You either buy it that way, or buy specialized equipment that shaves blocks.
It's an expensive process and it requires special tools to do it on a
practical basis. I had a good application for it but soon decide that the
media cost, etc. would eat us alive.



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside
some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20
air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that
has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan










  #6   Report Post  
Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We use dry ice pellets for cleaning High Voltage ( 500KV) insulators and
switch gear as well as generator windings. Talk to Seattle City Light they
use the same process for their distribution equipment cleaning and they
have a Co2 pelletizer. Co2 shavings do not work any where as well as the
pellets.The nice thing about the pellets is it strikes with enough mass and
mechanically dislodges the particulate and the vaporizes into a gas lifting
the contaminate away from the surface.

Pete




"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:fpf1e.18041$wL6.15138@trnddc03...
Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry

You either buy it that way, or buy specialized equipment that shaves
blocks. It's an expensive process and it requires special tools to do it
on a practical basis. I had a good application for it but soon decide that
the media cost, etc. would eat us alive.



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of
tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from
years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside
some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20
air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that
has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice
crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come
into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating
carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove
this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the
pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to
clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan










  #7   Report Post  
ATP*
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Pete" wrote in message
news:M0h1e.799935$8l.777594@pd7tw1no...
We use dry ice pellets for cleaning High Voltage ( 500KV) insulators and
switch gear as well as generator windings. Talk to Seattle City Light they
use the same process for their distribution equipment cleaning and they
have a Co2 pelletizer. Co2 shavings do not work any where as well as the
pellets.The nice thing about the pellets is it strikes with enough mass
and mechanically dislodges the particulate and the vaporizes into a gas
lifting the contaminate away from the surface.

Pete

Any idea how much it costs for the pellets and how long you can blast? It
looks like an ideal process, with the exception of the cost, which seems to
limit its application. From time to time there is dry ice blasting equipment
on ebay.




"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:fpf1e.18041$wL6.15138@trnddc03...
Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry

You either buy it that way, or buy specialized equipment that shaves
blocks. It's an expensive process and it requires special tools to do it
on a practical basis. I had a good application for it but soon decide
that the media cost, etc. would eat us alive.



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of
tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from
years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside
some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20
air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens
and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that
has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice
crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come
into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we
use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating
carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove
this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the
pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to
clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan












  #9   Report Post  
Pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You buy the pellets by the pound . As for shelf life they deteriorate
quickly . Your storage is critical.Don't plan to keep them for more than
eight hours . It is very dependant on storage and humidity. Once they start
clumping you are fighting a losing battle.

Pete


"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Pete" wrote in message
news:M0h1e.799935$8l.777594@pd7tw1no...
We use dry ice pellets for cleaning High Voltage ( 500KV) insulators and
switch gear as well as generator windings. Talk to Seattle City Light
they use the same process for their distribution equipment cleaning and
they have a Co2 pelletizer. Co2 shavings do not work any where as well as
the pellets.The nice thing about the pellets is it strikes with enough
mass and mechanically dislodges the particulate and the vaporizes into a
gas lifting the contaminate away from the surface.

Pete

Any idea how much it costs for the pellets and how long you can blast? It
looks like an ideal process, with the exception of the cost, which seems
to limit its application. From time to time there is dry ice blasting
equipment on ebay.




"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:fpf1e.18041$wL6.15138@trnddc03...
Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry

You either buy it that way, or buy specialized equipment that shaves
blocks. It's an expensive process and it requires special tools to do it
on a practical basis. I had a good application for it but soon decide
that the media cost, etc. would eat us alive.



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of
tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from
years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside
some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20
air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens
and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon
that has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice
crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come
into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we
use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating
carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove
this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the
pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to
clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan














  #10   Report Post  
Tim Williams
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you have a good fire source and don't mind them being soft afterwards,
you can anneal to 1000°F or so. Carbon burns right off. Don't overheat or
it'll melt.

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan






  #11   Report Post  
Halcitron
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Dan (SPAM) wrote:
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come

into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we

use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating

carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove

this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the

pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster

that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan


A Scotch Brite Abrasive wheel on a drill motor.
I 'd suggest a corded 1/2" angle drill motor, over a cordless.
Unfortunately a Makita DA4031 is coslty, but a fine tool. You will need
to secure the pans with clamps, so they don't go airborne.
Makita DA4031 1/2" Right Angle Drill Kit - $250.00 - Coastal Tool
Makita, DA4031, 1/2" Angle Drill, 2-Sp, Rev, 10.0 amps - $324.00 -
Rhinotoolshop
Makita DA4031 1/2" Sidewinder Angle Drill - $329.95 - Tyler Tool Co.

You could try a propane torch and a 2 inch putty knife.

MAke a paste from cream of tartar and apply to the carbon, let set for
30 minutes, then soak the pans for 1 hour in HOT water, Repeat as
needed.

Buy more pans and wash your pans daily.

The dry ice approach, might work if you place the dry ice in the pans
and let them get cold, so the aluminum shrinks a few microns, and the
carbon would lose grip, and flake off. Perhaps a pot of hot water after
the pans have chilled for 10 minutes. There might be a way to dip the
pans into liquid nitrogen, then into hot water, but I fear that may
crack the pans. Of course you would have to send the pans out for that.

Lastly, I would try liquid oxygen, but that would cause the carbon to
explode,a nd the aluminum to burn. Besides, you need some training
before you handle the stuff. Also, if you get LOX on your skin, you
burn like a newspaper.

BTW - When I was in the Navy, I spent 3-months in the chow hall, part
of which I spent in the pot and pan scullery. On my second day, I threw
a few pans out into the kitchen, and yelled at the FKCUing cooks to
clean these G'damn pans, since they're the ones who baked this **** on
there! It didn't work, I was back in the scullery scrubbing pots and
pans.


:/

  #12   Report Post  
Bugs
 
Posts: n/a
Default

An old trick for estimating the yield temperature of AL castings for
welding is to turn up the acetylene on an oxy torch and smoke up the
work piece.. Then preheat it with a cherryblossom until the carbon
evaporates. The piece is ready to weld. After welding, keep the heat on
the joint and slowly let it cool down.
Burning off the carbon is a good option, if as the man said, you don't
mind annealed pans.
Bugs

  #13   Report Post  
Bob Chilcoat
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I had a BOC Gases prototype CO2 snow blaster that I sold on Ebay a couple of
years ago. It was a high purity stainless steel gun with a special hose
that hooked directly to a special high purity CO2 cylinder with a dip tube.
The liquid CO2 turned into snow as it left the nozzle at high velocity. It
was designed for cleaning silicon wafers during chip fab. If you weren't
interested in the high purity, you could do pretty much the same with an air
blow gun and a high pressure hose to hook it to a CO2 cylinder. If you
turned the cylinder upside down you wouldn't need one with a dip tube.
Obviously the hose would need to be able to stand the full cylinder
pressure, even very cold, but it might be an interesting experiment. Wear
gloves and protect your eyes, particularly if the hose bursts!

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:fpf1e.18041$wL6.15138@trnddc03...
Bush Pete

How do you get the dry ice to size for blasting? I really like the
concept, but dont visualize how the process works.

Jerry



"Bushy Pete" wrote in message
...
Normal sandblasting will leave a messed up aluminium surface full of

tiny
dents that will catch food the next time they are used. I know from

years
ago in the army when we cleaned a bunch of hotplates with the workshop
sandblaster. They went back looking clean, but I pitty the next poor
buggers
that had to clean them.

They use crushed walnut shell blasting or similar for cleaning inside

some
aircraft engines, these would run just as happily through a normal $20

air
sander and be easy to do at home if you wished.

Top of the range is using dry ice as the grit for blasting out ovens and
cookwear on site and there is no residue other than the old carbon that
has
already been blown away. Totally food safe, and all you need is a
compressor, a sandblaster attachment and a container of dry ice

crystals.

Hope this helps,
Peter


"Dan" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of pizza shops (Way OT!) but metalworking DOES come

into
play!

We use aluminum pans for baking the pizzas in the oven and since we use
butter on the edges of the pan-pizza pans they start accumulating

carbon
buildup after a year or so of use. Is there a way for my to remove

this
carbon short of sandblasting? It must be a food safe and leave the

pans
structurally intact, figure about 125-150 pans overall that I need to

clean,
then re-season.

Any ideas? Anyone in the Kirkland or Kent WA area with a sandblaster
that
wants to trade sandblasting time for pizzas?

-Dan








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