I had another one of my ideas today and it concerns needing to lift
things in my garage around my workbench and the area I usually devote to
working on engines and such. There's never enough room to set up my engine
hoist, so I have to roll everything outside or hump it by hand. I'm getting
too beat up to do all that stupid heavy lifting by myself anymore, so ideas
are welcome.
What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a
track (or two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially
under the garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be in
and out of the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to be
lower than the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up the
end of the track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame with
the upper rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track.
The door tracks are available in several load ratings. The highest I
can ever see lifting is about five hundred pounds, but most likely in the
order of three fifty or so. The engines I usually work on are about that
much. If I had a double track bridge would I be able to safely double the
load rating of a single rail? I have in mind a foot or so spread between
the bridge tracks that would allow me to raise the hoist point above them to
keep the working height to a maximum. I figure the rails will be spreading
out the load between multiple beams to keep local stresses down.

The other thing to consider is the load carrying ability of my garage
ceiling. It's 2x6's on 24" centers, with 5/8" sheet rock below and
strandboard above for creating floor storage space. I could put some
plywood webs between the roof joists and the ceiling beams to give me a
little more beef, but I'm having a hard time guesstimating what will be safe
and what will be asking for trouble. My work area is one corner of the
garage, so I won't be picking things up out in the middle of the span. That
space is currently occupied by the garage door opener and screw track, which
is a point I can't cross with a device like this anyway.

On 7 Mar 2005 04:33:13 GMT, Ignoramus17028
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

And about which much advice for and against was given....

My chain hoist (lifted about 800 lbs once).

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/ChainHoist/

carl mciver wrote:
I had another one of my ideas today and it concerns needing to lift
things in my garage around my workbench and the area I usually devote to
working on engines and such. There's never enough room to set up my engine
hoist, so I have to roll everything outside or hump it by hand. I'm getting
too beat up to do all that stupid heavy lifting by myself anymore, so ideas
are welcome.
What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a
track (or two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially
under the garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be in
and out of the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to be
lower than the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up the
end of the track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame with
the upper rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track.
The door tracks are available in several load ratings. The highest I
can ever see lifting is about five hundred pounds, but most likely in the
order of three fifty or so. The engines I usually work on are about that
much. If I had a double track bridge would I be able to safely double the
load rating of a single rail? I have in mind a foot or so spread between
the bridge tracks that would allow me to raise the hoist point above them to
keep the working height to a maximum. I figure the rails will be spreading
out the load between multiple beams to keep local stresses down.

The other thing to consider is the load carrying ability of my garage
ceiling. It's 2x6's on 24" centers, with 5/8" sheet rock below and
strandboard above for creating floor storage space. I could put some
plywood webs between the roof joists and the ceiling beams to give me a
little more beef, but I'm having a hard time guesstimating what will be safe
and what will be asking for trouble. My work area is one corner of the
garage, so I won't be picking things up out in the middle of the span. That
space is currently occupied by the garage door opener and screw track, which
is a point I can't cross with a device like this anyway.

The best way to mount something like this would be to put a heavy steel channel
strongback on top of the joists above the track to spread out the load. Secure
the hoist track to the strongback with long bolts through the thickness of the
ceiling to avoid weakening the joists by drilling holes in the highly stressed
lower edges. With the load spread over several joists overloading should not be
a problem. What is the total span of the joists and are they the bottom chords
of a truss roof?.

carl mciver wrote:
I had another one of my ideas today and it concerns needing to lift things in
my garage around my workbench and the area I usually devote to working on
engines and such. There's never enough room to set up my engine hoist, so I
have to roll everything outside or hump it by hand. I'm getting too beat up
to do all that stupid heavy lifting by myself anymore, so ideas are welcome.
What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn door
tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a track (or
two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially under the
garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be in and out of
the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to be lower than
the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up the end of the
track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame with the upper
rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track. The door tracks
are available in several load ratings. The highest I can ever see lifting is
about five hundred pounds, but most likely in the order of three fifty or so.
The engines I usually work on are about that much. If I had a double track
bridge would I be able to safely double the load rating of a single rail? I
have in mind a foot or so spread between the bridge tracks that would allow
me to raise the hoist point above them to keep the working height to a
maximum. I figure the rails will be spreading out the load between multiple
beams to keep local stresses down.

The other thing to consider is the load carrying ability of my garage
ceiling. It's 2x6's on 24" centers, with 5/8" sheet rock below and
strandboard above for creating floor storage space. I could put some plywood
webs between the roof joists and the ceiling beams to give me a little more
beef, but I'm having a hard time guesstimating what will be safe and what
will be asking for trouble. My work area is one corner of the garage, so I
won't be picking things up out in the middle of the span. That space is
currently occupied by the garage door opener and screw track, which is a
point I can't cross with a device like this anyway.

The best way to mount something like this would be to put a heavy steel channel
strongback on top of the joists above the track to spread out the load. Secure
the hoist track to the strongback with long bolts through the thickness of the
ceiling to avoid weakening the joists by drilling holes in the highly stressed
lower edges. With the load spread over several joists overloading should not be
a problem. What is the total span of the joists and are they the bottom chords
of a truss roof?.

Time to up your life insurance policy. If you have to pay for health
insurance then double your coverage asap.

Dude, 1/8" angle to hold that hoist plus load? Do you clean your guns
loaded and cocked too?

Why not buy a folding engine lift?


"OldNick" wrote in message
...
On 7 Mar 2005 04:33:13 GMT, Ignoramus17028
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

And about which much advice for and against was given....

My chain hoist (lifted about 800 lbs once).

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/ChainHoist/

What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a

Uni-strut can be used as track and they make matching trolleys.
You can make your own trolleys by studying the catalogs.

I would not lift more that a couple hundred pounds on a questionable
ceiling though.

carl mciver wrote:

I had another one of my ideas today and it concerns needing to lift
things in my garage around my workbench and the area I usually devote to
working on engines and such. There's never enough room to set up my engine
hoist, so I have to roll everything outside or hump it by hand. I'm getting
too beat up to do all that stupid heavy lifting by myself anymore, so ideas
are welcome.
What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a
track (or two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially
under the garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be in
and out of the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to be
lower than the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up the
end of the track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame with
the upper rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track.
The door tracks are available in several load ratings. The highest I
can ever see lifting is about five hundred pounds, but most likely in the
order of three fifty or so. The engines I usually work on are about that
much. If I had a double track bridge would I be able to safely double the
load rating of a single rail? I have in mind a foot or so spread between
the bridge tracks that would allow me to raise the hoist point above them to
keep the working height to a maximum. I figure the rails will be spreading
out the load between multiple beams to keep local stresses down.

The other thing to consider is the load carrying ability of my garage
ceiling. It's 2x6's on 24" centers, with 5/8" sheet rock below and
strandboard above for creating floor storage space. I could put some
plywood webs between the roof joists and the ceiling beams to give me a
little more beef, but I'm having a hard time guesstimating what will be safe
and what will be asking for trouble. My work area is one corner of the
garage, so I won't be picking things up out in the middle of the span. That
space is currently occupied by the garage door opener and screw track, which
is a point I can't cross with a device like this anyway.

Do not under any circumstances try to hang any significant load from the
bottom chord of a truss roof. Truss roofs can only support loads on the
top chords, the bottoms are limited to sheetrock and light fixtures.

If you have a truss roof an independently supported beam will be
required. This beam can be located above the bottom chord of the
trusses as long as there is sufficient clearance given so that no load
can be exerted on the truss due to beam deflection. This will allow the
crane track to be flush against the ceiling and supported by the beam
above. The truss can be used to provide lateral support for the beam as
long as the connections used insure that no vertical loads are placed on
the truss.

If it is not a truss roof and they are "real" 2x6 joists at 24" centers
then you *may* be able to get away with distributing the load across
multiple joists by placing a suitably sized beam across the joists and
anchoring your door track to that beam.

Consult an appropriate architectural engineering reference for the beam
sizing and load limits for a 2x6 24" oc structure.

You also can not place multiples of the 500# door hangers close
together, the door track is not designed for that loading. If you can
lift what you need from a single 500# hanger then it can work.

A company called Spanco (http://www.spanco.com/) produces a gantry
system that is very similar to the barn door tracks. If you need to lift
more than the 500# that the door system is rated for I recommend using
the Spanco products. If a 500# limitation is ok I don't see any reason
why you couldn't use the door tracks within the parameters they are
engineered for.

Pete C.

"Roger_Nickel" wrote in message
...
SNIP
| What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
| door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a
| track (or two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially
| under the garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be
in
| and out of the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to
be
| lower than the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up
the
| end of the track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame
with
| the upper rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track.
SNIP
| The best way to mount something like this would be to put a heavy steel
channel
| strongback on top of the joists above the track to spread out the load.
Secure
| the hoist track to the strongback with long bolts through the thickness of
the
| ceiling to avoid weakening the joists by drilling holes in the highly
stressed
| lower edges. With the load spread over several joists overloading should
not be
| a problem. What is the total span of the joists and are they the bottom
chords
| of a truss roof?.

The open span across the ceiling is about 24' on a built in place
ceiling and roof frame. There's 2x4's at the peak holding up the roof peak,
or holding up the ceiling. One way or the other. Not prefab trusses, that's
for sure.
I've seen the unistrut roller track, until I go looking for it on the
web. I can't seem to find it in either B-line or Unistrut's sites.
Specifically looking for load ratings. How does the load rating of strut
compare to door track? I never knew the load factors of the strut, but I
like how strong the doubled up struts (back to back) were. Never had to buy
any of it, so I don't know the price/load comparison between that and the
door track.
I like the idea of a beam or channel strongback. I can put one end
directly on top of the wall (actually, it's over the garage door beam.) The
joists run parallel to the garage door, so I assume you mean to run it
perpendicular to the door. I wonder how to terminate the other end. Can I
just dead end it? I'll have to do some rearranging of the stuff for sure,
the kids have trashed all sense of organization I put up there! What's a
good size/type that won't wind up being more weight than support? I hadn't
planned on bolting through the joists, rather bolt around or make a bunch of
U-bolts. I figured single legged ones would do the job if I used enough of
'em.
I had originally wanted to do a four legged bridge crane like suggested
from Spanco (thanks for the link!) but I have a car in the garage. There'd
be more room if the car could be moved over, but I've got a compressor and a
few engines on one side that are somewhat stored, and three or so on the
near side that are in work. Lifting these engines are what I've got in
mind. With the car/stuff as well as the garage door and track in the way I
can't do that kind of system.

carl mciver wrote:

"Roger_Nickel" wrote in message
...
SNIP
| What I had in mind was to install three or so fifteen foot long barn
| door tracks in the area I usually work. Suspend from them on rollers a
| track (or two) that work like a bridge. Since my work area is partially
| under the garage door in the up position, I need the upper tracks to be
in
| and out of the area, and parallel to the door track. The bridge has to
be
| lower than the door and track, simply because the frame that holds up
the
| end of the track is in the way. I'd have to have a rigid drop frame
with
| the upper rollers to allow the bridge to clear the garage door track.
SNIP
| The best way to mount something like this would be to put a heavy steel
channel
| strongback on top of the joists above the track to spread out the load.
Secure
| the hoist track to the strongback with long bolts through the thickness of
the
| ceiling to avoid weakening the joists by drilling holes in the highly
stressed
| lower edges. With the load spread over several joists overloading should
not be
| a problem. What is the total span of the joists and are they the bottom
chords
| of a truss roof?.

The open span across the ceiling is about 24' on a built in place
ceiling and roof frame. There's 2x4's at the peak holding up the roof peak,
or holding up the ceiling. One way or the other. Not prefab trusses, that's
for sure.
I've seen the unistrut roller track, until I go looking for it on the
web. I can't seem to find it in either B-line or Unistrut's sites.
Specifically looking for load ratings. How does the load rating of strut
compare to door track? I never knew the load factors of the strut, but I
like how strong the doubled up struts (back to back) were. Never had to buy
any of it, so I don't know the price/load comparison between that and the
door track.
I like the idea of a beam or channel strongback. I can put one end
directly on top of the wall (actually, it's over the garage door beam.) The
joists run parallel to the garage door, so I assume you mean to run it
perpendicular to the door. I wonder how to terminate the other end. Can I
just dead end it? I'll have to do some rearranging of the stuff for sure,
the kids have trashed all sense of organization I put up there! What's a
good size/type that won't wind up being more weight than support? I hadn't
planned on bolting through the joists, rather bolt around or make a bunch of
U-bolts. I figured single legged ones would do the job if I used enough of
'em.
I had originally wanted to do a four legged bridge crane like suggested
from Spanco (thanks for the link!) but I have a car in the garage. There'd
be more room if the car could be moved over, but I've got a compressor and a
few engines on one side that are somewhat stored, and three or so on the
near side that are in work. Lifting these engines are what I've got in
mind. With the car/stuff as well as the garage door and track in the way I
can't do that kind of system.

Not all of the Spanco systems are self supporting, a number of them are
designed to mount to the building roof structure. Granted this is
normally steel I beams, but the smaller Spanco stuff can be adapted to
work in a wood frame garage type of structure.

If you want a full bridge and are willing to spend the money for Spanco
components that are engineered for this you can make them work in your
garage.

With the two bridge tracks mounted flush to the ceiling just in from the
exterior walls you can support them with a relatively small beam above
the joists to distribute the load across the joists. Since you are just
a short distance in from where the joists are supported by the wall
framing as opposed to mid span the load transfer is not too bad.

The last 4' of the joist up to and including the part on top of the wall
should probably be sistered on at least one site with another piece of
2x6 to provide extra strength in that area.

The Spanco bridge is trussed to handle the load between the bridge
tracks properly. The engineering for this would need to be confirmed by
the Spanco folks but I think what I described would be appropriate for a
bridge with a 1,000# max load rating.

The door track would likely work just fine for a single trolley track
with a 500# max capacity and be a lot cheaper, but of course less
flexible than a full bridge.

You also need to be concerned if you intend to put a point load in the
middle of the garage door header since it may well not be sized to
handle the additional load. The Spanco bridge would avoid this problem
since it's supports would be along the walls.

Pete C.