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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Chain Drive Tracked Vehicle
I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW
Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle, such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown. This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame welded together. Next step is to build the tracks. So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd |
#2
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In article ,
"Bernd" wrote: So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. The inexpensive and practical approach to that is probably to drop by a M/C junkyard - new prices tend to be a bit shocking. Another (inexpensive, junkyard) approach would be to slap in a second automotive (or M/C) transmission, driven from the first one - gives the ability to change your ratios easily if you guess wrong, since it's a prototype. -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
#3
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I'm sure some of you would like some pictures to look at so here are 3.
First is the frame of my vehicle on the garage floor before welding. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/vw1.jpg I should have turned the picture 90degree ccw for better viewing. Sorry. Next is the "Home-Built Tracked Vehicle" by Larry Brown. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/track001.jpg And here's the whole article about the vehicle. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/track2.jpg Enjoy, Bernd |
#4
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"Ecnerwal" wrote in message ... Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. The inexpensive and practical approach to that is probably to drop by a M/C junkyard - new prices tend to be a bit shocking. Are these belts cogged by any chance? Also do you have any rough dimensions as to width of belt. I had forgotten that the Harley uses belts, right? Another (inexpensive, junkyard) approach would be to slap in a second automotive (or M/C) transmission, driven from the first one - gives the ability to change your ratios easily if you guess wrong, since it's a prototype. Don't know if your familar with the VW tranny, but the motor mounts to it in the usall way. But the final drive is also in the transmission. No drive shaft to attach another tranny. I had thought of this but is very difficult to do. I should take a picture of the tranny sitting on the frame you you can see what it looks like. All I need to do is get all the junk off of it the has acumulated on it over the last several months. Since it's going to be a nice warm weekend here in NY, I might just clear things out and take a picture and post it. Thanks Larry for the info on the possibility of using a belt drive. Hadn't thought of that. Bernd -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
#5
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"Ecnerwal" wrote in message ... Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. Far and away the major cause of cycle chain "stretch" is wear due to road dust/grit. Enclosing the chain fully in a case with an oilbath will remove this. |
#6
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"Ecnerwal" wrote: Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives.(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ However, remember that a motorcycle develops full power at around 100 mph, while a snow blower goes, maybe, 3-4 mph. If you really need 50 HP at that low speed, the chain tension will be about 25 to 30 times as high. However, I am not clear on the concept. Isn't most of the power going to be used to throw the snow? How much will actually be used to drive the wheels, and how are you planning to divide it? |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:
Go here www.emerson-ept.com, you must register to git in da gate but might be some good info. I didn't register so don't know. Dese boys own morse chain, and browning gear and prolly have lots of info. Looking at what yer building I'd use 80 chain. Prolly over built. Maybe git by wit 60. I've changed enough chain to know bigger is better. If you have the space. If you break something it won't be the chain, prolly the key. ---------------------------------SNIP----------------------------------------------- So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd |
#8
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"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... However, remember that a motorcycle develops full power at around 100 mph, while a snow blower goes, maybe, 3-4 mph. If you really need 50 HP at that low speed, the chain tension will be about 25 to 30 times as high. However, I am not clear on the concept. Isn't most of the power going to be used to throw the snow? How much will actually be used to drive the wheels, and how are you planning to divide it? The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine, happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a project. So with that said the engine will drive the vehicle and a separate engine, 10 to 15 hp will drive a detachable snowblower. I'm going to upload a few more pictures to make it clearer as to what it will look like. Bernd |
#9
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"mike cordless" wrote in message ... On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote: Go here www.emerson-ept.com, you must register to git in da gate but might be some good info. I didn't register so don't know. Dese boys own morse chain, and browning gear and prolly have lots of info. Looking at what yer building I'd use 80 chain. Prolly over built. Maybe git by wit 60. I've changed enough chain to know bigger is better. If you have the space. If you break something it won't be the chain, prolly the key. Thanks Mike. |
#10
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I've uploade a few more pics for those that want to see how far I've
gotten and what it looks like at this point in the project. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/frame1.jpg This picture shows the frame all welded up and the tranny with shift, by the way it'll be a four speed, mechanism setting on the frame. The frame is 7 feet long and about 30" wide. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/tranny1.jpg This is a closer veiw of a 4 forward and one reverse speed aluminum VW transmision. From lower rigth to upper left is as follows: bell housing, differential, trannsmision, shift linkage. The drive from the tranny is through two sets of constant velocity joints, one on the tranny and one on the wishbone trailing arm holding the rear drive wheel. http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/tranny2.jpg Here's a closer view of the transfer part of the case. The constant velocity joint is bolted to this part with 6 bolts. I plan on makeing somethign out of round stock to were I can wweld a small sproket and bolt to the drive axle, just like the original velocity joint. I hope I've cleared up some questions on my project as to what it looks like and why I'm doing the things I am. I have 4 front wheel drive VW's setting around and a Beetle chassi that was once used for a dunebuggy I had. So I'm using the parts from these to build the snowblower vehicle. Bernd |
#11
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:49:12 -0400, "jtaylor"
wrote: "Ecnerwal" wrote in message ... Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. Far and away the major cause of cycle chain "stretch" is wear due to road dust/grit. Enclosing the chain fully in a case with an oilbath will remove this. Of course, if the chain is run in an oil bath it must be sealed very well, otherwise along with oil leaking out you will get water and dirt leaking in. Since the chain can be lubed safely with chain lube and left to run that way maybe just having a good dust cover would do. The belting mentioned earlier is indeed toothed belting. It won't stretch and won't wear at the pins like chain and appear to stretch. It's expensive. You can get a toothed pulley made from aluminum which would be cheaper than a steel one. Several years ago I needed to buy some chain but did not know how to specify it. I called a local supplier, Washington Chain (I think), and the fellow I spoke to asked about my application, what speed, HP or torque of the motor, and environment the chain would be running in. With all that info he was able to give me a couple options and I was able to order the chain. The whole phone call lasted about ten minutes as I had all the data in front of me before the call was placed. I'm usually not that organised. If the chain is very long an idler may be needed. These can be made from plastic. UHMW works well if the idler as just a block that the chain rubs against. If the idler rotates then nylon, Delrin, or Acetron will work well. Delrin and Acetron don't absorb water, nylon does. I have seen power transmission parts pretty cheap on ebay. Another source is to google for "surplus _____". You fill in the blank. BTW, did you know that the ring gear in the VW transaxle can be switched to the other side? Then you can have 4 speeds reverse, and one forward. ERS |
#12
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Bernd wrote:
The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine, happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a project. My hat is off to you. Someday I hope to be able to move out of surburban Washington DC and have the space to tinker with stuff like you are doing. ;-) -- Mark |
#13
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"Eric R Snow" wrote in message ... You fill in the blank. BTW, did you know that the ring gear in the VW transaxle can be switched to the other side? Then you can have 4 speeds reverse, and one forward. ERS Yes I did. That's how they made the mid engine formula Vee's that used to race at Watkins Glenn many moons ago. The VW dealer I bought all my cars from had a sales man that was into racing the Vee's. He had his car on display at the dealership. Almost got into racing back then but my dad talked me out of it. DARN Bernd |
#14
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"Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:7VQKd.739$EX.339@trnddc03... Bernd wrote: The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine, happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a project. My hat is off to you. Someday I hope to be able to move out of surburban Washington DC and have the space to tinker with stuff like you are doing. ;-) -- Mark Thanks Mark. I'm going to document as much of this build as possible and then put it up on the web. The project is stalled because I needed to figure out how I was going to do the track. But that has been solved now so hopefully this spring I'll get it going again. Bernd |
#15
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In article ,
"Bernd" wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... However, remember that a motorcycle develops full power at around 100 mph, while a snow blower goes, maybe, 3-4 mph. If you really need 50 HP at that low speed, the chain tension will be about 25 to 30 times as high. However, I am not clear on the concept. Isn't most of the power going to be used to throw the snow? How much will actually be used to drive the wheels, and how are you planning to divide it? The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine, happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a project. So with that said the engine will drive the vehicle and a separate engine, 10 to 15 hp will drive a detachable snowblower. I'm going to upload a few more pictures to make it clearer as to what it will look like. I think you have it backward, I'd use the 50 hp for the snowblower and the 10 hp for drive. -- Free men own guns, slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#16
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"Bernd" wrote in message ... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:7VQKd.739$EX.339@trnddc03... Bernd wrote: The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine, happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a project. My hat is off to you. Someday I hope to be able to move out of surburban Washington DC and have the space to tinker with stuff like you are doing. ;-) -- Mark Thanks Mark. I'm going to document as much of this build as possible and then put it up on the web. The project is stalled because I needed to figure out how I was going to do the track. But that has been solved now so hopefully this spring I'll get it going again. Bernd |
#17
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What happens if a rock gets caught between the sprocket and belt?
No mention of guards? Jordan Ecnerwal wrote: I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. The inexpensive and practical approach to that is probably to drop by a M/C junkyard - new prices tend to be a bit shocking. |
#18
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"Nick Hull" wrote in message ... I think you have it backward, I'd use the 50 hp for the snowblower and the 10 hp for drive. I used to have a Massey Ferguson 12hp garden tractor with snowblower. It worked quite well in the snow. Don't need much to turn a auger and a 2 foot dia. impeller such as used on centrifugal fans. Besides that is what I have available to put together the vehicle. If the blower motor isn't big enough I can always get a bigger motor,eh? Bernd |
#19
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In article ,
"Bernd" wrote: Are these belts cogged by any chance? Also do you have any rough dimensions as to width of belt. I had forgotten that the Harley uses belts, right? Yes they are cogged. Yes, Harley has been using them for quite a while now. Kawasaki used them for a while on some bikes. Not sure what current production is using them. My bike is a shafty, and old. I was skeptical of them when I first heard of them, but the more I learned about them, the more they seemed like a heck of a good system. Typically a bit over an inch wide, IIRC, but they can be had in many sizes. Don't know if your familar with the VW tranny Duh, right, it's a tranny and diff all in one (aka transaxle). I had a Corvair for a few years myself if I'd just engage my brain about what you are starting from - The main thing I recall about our aircooled VW was that it would be a royal pain to start at home, and behave perfectly when at the VW mechanic; and 9 (2-string) haybales fit (more or less inside) the van. -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
#20
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I'd second the idea of a second tranny for the wheel drive. Start out with
a reduction of about 4:1 (rear end ratio) and then you can gain another about 3:1 or more reduction by the gear selection. Having the gears in a second tranny will also allow you to have 4 choices for speeds which will make the depth of the cut for the snowblower adjustable for the various depths of snow. You're probably going to be wanting to do about 3mph when the engine is turning for 60mph on the first tranny so that ends up with a reduction of about 20:1 and that means that you need to have about 5:1 for the intermediate reduction to the second tranny clutch something easily possible with a chain drive. Please also note that chains are transmitting tension, not torque so a larger gears will allow for more power transmission for any particular chain size. You're also not going to be transmittng that much power (maybe 5hp) so the requirements are not going to be that hard for the chain drive. -- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole? |
#21
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I'm possibly interested in the FarmShow CD. Do you have any opinions? Is it
complete with articles, pics, diagrams, etc? I haven't been able to find anyone who has one and I hate to buy stuff without some report / review / etc / someones opinion. Have a good one, Byrd ******************************* Remove any NOSPAM text from my email address. I have been getting a lot of spam and have had to include some additional text to my email in an attempt to deceive those nasty email scavenging programs that skim addresses off of mail servers. |
#23
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:
I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle, such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown. This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame welded together. Next step is to build the tracks. So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd Here you go http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UI...211-B&catname= |
#24
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Bernd wrote:
I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle, such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown. This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame welded together. Next step is to build the tracks. So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd Hi . I have a VW driven track machine with chain drives . First off the chains are 60's . More then strong enough to carry 3000 lb over uneven ground and steep slopes . My reduction after the axles is about 5/1 ( I should check this ). Not enough ;-( . I can only use 1st gear , second only on the smoothest ground . The other gears are simply far to fast . I need to do some major rework of mine and will slow it down more then . Mine has the brakes after the reduction , bad idea . It would have been much better right at the axle . I don't really have room to move it now so planning on going over to power brakes and double up my calipers hoping that solves the problem . My tracks are far different then the pictures you posted . Mine are old rubber conveyor belting with metal cross bars for the drive sprockets to engage . I have had mine for 20 or so years and never had to replace the chains but probably will shorten them soon by half a link . If you have any other specific questions ask and I will see if I can help . I can see if about pictures if you like . I really wish mine had an automatic tranny . Things get real busy and shifting from forward to reverse on slopes can be a bit nervy . Well the slopes in BC are for me anyway . ;-) . Luck Ken Cutt |
#25
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I had a friend who built a lawn mower like this. At the output side of the VW transaxle, he fashioned axle shafts with gears
from a coal mine winch, I think. He built an enclosure that bolted to the transaxle and to the frame. He used what he had but I think it was something like 7:1 reduction and in low, I could walk fast than he could drive wide open. He pulled a gang of 10 reel mowers over his 5 acre front yard for over 5 years without a drive train failure. I think the secret to his success was that the gear set was way oversized and he keep them running in hypoid (sp?) gear lub. R. Wink On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote: I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle, such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown. This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame welded together. Next step is to build the tracks. So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd |
#26
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That is a GOOD price! But the picture and the description are a bit
off. Pic shows a 2:1 reduction, description sounds like 1:1 Andy Asberry wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote: I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle, such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown. This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame welded together. Next step is to build the tracks. So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive the rear wheel, would that size be about right? Regards, Bernd Here you go http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UI...211-B&catname= |
#27
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"eByrd" wrote in message ... I'm possibly interested in the FarmShow CD. Do you have any opinions? Is it complete with articles, pics, diagrams, etc? I haven't been able to find anyone who has one and I hate to buy stuff without some report / review / etc / someones opinion. Have a good one, Byrd Byrd, Don't know about the CD, but the magazine is fun to look through. It's great for a guy who wants to get ideas for building something fun. Also has some good sources of info on products. Bernd |
#28
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Here you go
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UI...211-B&catname= I have their catalog. Thanks Andy. Bernd |
#29
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"Ken Cutt" wrote in message ... Hi . I have a VW driven track machine with chain drives . First off the chains are 60's . Ken, that's one of the answers I was looking for. Great. Thanks. My reduction after the axles is about 5/1 ( I should check this ). Not enough ;-( . Again an answer to what I was looking for. I haven't looked in to the specifics of ratios yet. But at least from your experince I can get a better idea. Mine has the brakes after the reduction , bad idea . It would have been much better right at the axle . I don't really have room to move it now so planning on going over to power brakes and double up my calipers hoping that solves the problem . I was haveing trouble in deciding were to put the brakes. I figured if it was after the reduction that the power transmitted through the reduction that it would be hard to brake. So you think the brakes would be better of if they were at the output of the tranny before the reduction? My tracks are far different then the pictures you posted . Mine are old rubber conveyor belting with metal cross bars for the drive sprockets to engage . I was orginally going to use a drive sprocket put couldn't find a ready source for one. What did you use for a sprocket? If you have any other specific questions ask and I will see if I can help . I think the ones I posed here are about it for now. I'll keep your e-mail addy in the address book. I can see if about pictures if you like . A pic or two would be nice if you can do that. I realy would appreciate it. I really wish mine had an automatic tranny . Things get real busy and shifting from forward to reverse on slopes can be a bit nervy . I was also wondering if an automatic would work better. I don't have the hills to contend with. Just a 1/10 mile long driveway that gets plugged with snow real fast, plus I don't like when it gets below te 20's and the wind chill way minus. Again thanks for all the good info. I'm kind of surprised that somebody else has actually tried this. At first I thought I was a bit nuts trying to do this. Regards, Bernd |
#30
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"R. Wink" wrote in message ... I had a friend who built a lawn mower like this. At the output side of the VW transaxle, he fashioned axle shafts with gears from a coal mine winch, I think. He built an enclosure that bolted to the transaxle and to the frame. He used what he had but I think it was something like 7:1 reduction and in low, I could walk fast than he could drive wide open. He pulled a gang of 10 reel mowers over his 5 acre front yard for over 5 years without a drive train failure. I think the secret to his success was that the gear set was way oversized and he keep them running in hypoid (sp?) gear lub. R. Wink Thanks for the info R. Wink Regards, Bernd |
#31
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:53:20 GMT, Andy Asberry
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email Cogged belt and pulleys 80HP. $9 !???????? On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote: I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive. Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either Here you go http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UI...211-B&catname= |
#32
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Bernd wrote:
"Ken Cutt" wrote in message ... Hi . I have a VW driven track machine with chain drives . First off the chains are 60's . Ken, that's one of the answers I was looking for. Great. Thanks. My reduction after the axles is about 5/1 ( I should check this ). Not enough ;-( . Again an answer to what I was looking for. I haven't looked in to the specifics of ratios yet. But at least from your experince I can get a better idea. My thinking on reduction is why have four gears but only be able to use one or two ? I will try look tomorrow and get the tooth count . Mine has the brakes after the reduction , bad idea . It would have been much better right at the axle . I don't really have room to move it now so planning on going over to power brakes and double up my calipers hoping that solves the problem . I was haveing trouble in deciding were to put the brakes. I figured if it was after the reduction that the power transmitted through the reduction that it would be hard to brake. So you think the brakes would be better of if they were at the output of the tranny before the reduction? Ideally I think clutches and brakes would be the best choice but for sure I have a hard time braking the way mine is set up . I would put the brakes right at the trans axle if I could . One note . Mine is really hard on the rear spindles and idler wheels . Loaded the side strain is huge when braking . I have to go heavier all around . My original spindles are off a Ford Cortina and I have 12 inch idler wheels .. My spindles are welded to heavy tubing that goes from side to side . So changing them is a pain . When I replace them, I am going to spindles that bolt on . There are some Dodge rear spindles that look good at the wreckers . So welding on plates and bolts should make it easier to change them when they do go . I can get spindles at PICKNPULL on sale for 7.99 so I figure I can afford to lose a few and can keep a spare on hand . Then I will also move up to 13 inch idlers and hope they are a little tougher but really if I brake a few rims I do not care . Old Dodge rims here are freebies anyway . It isn't that things brake that often but the side drag is a design issue you can not avoid using only brake steering . My tracks are far different then the pictures you posted . Mine are old rubber conveyor belting with metal cross bars for the drive sprockets to engage . I was orginally going to use a drive sprocket put couldn't find a ready source for one. What did you use for a sprocket? Drive sprocket , ha ha . Mine will surprise you . Center hub welded to a flat plate , then about a piece 1 1/2 inches welded wrapped around that at 90 degrees , Then teeth welded around that made from solid metal . I know sounds like a big pain but really not very hard to do and they turn so slow nothing really needs to be balanced . For sure with teeth they never slip . If you have any other specific questions ask and I will see if I can help . I think the ones I posed here are about it for now. I'll keep your e-mail addy in the address book. The email is good . Just put track machine in the header so I do not dump it with the reg daily spam . I can see if about pictures if you like . A pic or two would be nice if you can do that. I realy would appreciate it. I will see if I can get some pics into the drop box tomorrow . Enough to show clearly the points I have made so far . I really wish mine had an automatic tranny . Things get real busy and shifting from forward to reverse on slopes can be a bit nervy . I was also wondering if an automatic would work better. I don't have the hills to contend with. Just a 1/10 mile long driveway that gets plugged with snow real fast, plus I don't like when it gets below te 20's and the wind chill way minus. Again thanks for all the good info. I'm kind of surprised that somebody else has actually tried this. At first I thought I was a bit nuts trying to do this. I am amazed at where mine will go . I can carry a cord of wood on the back and crawl up hills too steep to stand on . Side note , seat belt , honest they lurch enough to throw you right off the front . Happened to me once , yikes . Now I do have a belt and I will not get on it unless it is hooked up . I can not say how important the belt is so plan for one . My machine I estimate weighs about 1800 Lbs. empty and loaded just about 5000 . This will give you an idea about the power you can expect . If you plan on moving snow weight will be important . I guess mine has some flotation but no where enough to stay on top of snow . Regards, Bernd Feel free to ask any questions you have as you go along , these things are way too cool a toy not to share :-) . Luck Ken Cutt |
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Feel free to ask any questions you have as you go along , these things
are way too cool a toy not to share :-) . Luck Ken Cutt Thanks Ken. I'll keep in touch as I go along. Could be weeks or months between e-mails. Bernd |
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 6:09:21 -0800, Bernd wrote
(in message ): Bernd I'm playing with a smaller-scale tracked machine for handicapped persons transport and wonder what ideas you have for the actual track? TIA. |
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:48:52 GMT, "Bernd" vaguely
proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email Mine has the brakes after the reduction , bad idea . It would have been much better right at the axle . I don't really have room to move it now so planning on going over to power brakes and double up my calipers hoping that solves the problem . I was haveing trouble in deciding were to put the brakes. I figured if it was after the reduction that the power transmitted through the reduction that it would be hard to brake. So you think the brakes would be better of if they were at the output of the tranny before the reduction? My .002 worth... Brakes will need to be smaller if before the trannie or any reduction, because they are stopping a much lower torque when the engine is driving, and _with_ a higher advantage if you are "freewheeling" (as much as this thing will ever freewheel G). But if the trannie or any part of the drive train after the brakes should fail, you have no brakes, and also no drive train. You are right about the braking under power, except that in most cases that I know of, skid steer stuff that is not hydrostatic drive also requires that you disengage a clutch to the stopping side of the tracks before you brake to turn anyway. |
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I'm playing with a smaller-scale tracked machine for handicapped persons transport and wonder what ideas you have for the actual track? TIA. Roger, If you go back through some of the messages you'll see I posted some URL's that explain how I found out what to use. I was originally going to make my own track using belting and C channel bolted to the belting with a sprocket drive. But to save you the trouble of searching right away, I'm going to use the rear tire of a farm tractor with the side wall cut out. I think for your application you should be able to use any kind of rubber tire that will fit the length of track you want to make. Just cut the side walls out and use the tread. One problem I'm going to need to solve is keeping the track on the drive and support wheels. I think perhaps that a conveyor type of belting might work for you. Since I'm familiar with farm equipment I was going to use the belting that is used on round hay balers. If you have a "Tractor Supply" store near you, that is were you can purchase the belting. Think of any kind or tire or belting to make your track out of. Got more questions, just ask. You can e-mail me at bhf51 at att dot com. I may forget to stop back here to check on posts. Best to take it to e-mail. I'll check back just incase you can't get through. Bernd |
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In article ,
Old Nick wrote: [...] Brakes will need to be smaller if before the trannie or any reduction, because they are stopping a much lower torque when the engine is driving, and _with_ a higher advantage if you are "freewheeling" (as much as this thing will ever freewheel G). But if the trannie or any part of the drive train after the brakes should fail, you have no brakes, and also no drive train. He could set up an emergency brake of sorts. I stuck one on a cart once--it was just a simple parallelogram that would swing down far enough to contact the ground--rolling in one direction would wedge it further into the ground. Two back-to-back for bidirectional braking. Simple, lightweight, damn near bulletproof. Or use auto wheel ends with brakes in 'em and pull like all hell when something goes wrong. (: You are right about the braking under power, except that in most cases that I know of, skid steer stuff that is not hydrostatic drive also requires that you disengage a clutch to the stopping side of the tracks before you brake to turn anyway. I think the transaxle he plans to use has a differential in it, so steering clutches shouldn't be needed--just twin brakes. I believe most crawlers omit the differential because it's hard to make sturdy enough, and it would make it possible for the tractor to drift to one side rather that going straight when digging with only one end of the blade. Shouldn't be an issue on this doodad. -- B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/ |
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Bernd wrote:
Feel free to ask any questions you have as you go along , these things are way too cool a toy not to share :-) . Luck Ken Cutt Thanks Ken. I'll keep in touch as I go along. Could be weeks or months between e-mails. Bernd Hi . I did send in pics today but I do not see them in the " drop box " yet . I may have botched it . If they do not show up tomorrow I will try track them down . They will be under the heading of " track machine " if some how I did get it right ;-) . Email any time along the route . Luck Ken Cutt |
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B.B. wrote:
In article , Old Nick wrote: [...] Brakes will need to be smaller if before the trannie or any reduction, because they are stopping a much lower torque when the engine is driving, and _with_ a higher advantage if you are "freewheeling" (as much as this thing will ever freewheel G). But if the trannie or any part of the drive train after the brakes should fail, you have no brakes, and also no drive train. He could set up an emergency brake of sorts. I stuck one on a cart once--it was just a simple parallelogram that would swing down far enough to contact the ground--rolling in one direction would wedge it further into the ground. Two back-to-back for bidirectional braking. Simple, lightweight, damn near bulletproof. Or use auto wheel ends with brakes in 'em and pull like all hell when something goes wrong. (: You are right about the braking under power, except that in most cases that I know of, skid steer stuff that is not hydrostatic drive also requires that you disengage a clutch to the stopping side of the tracks before you brake to turn anyway. I think the transaxle he plans to use has a differential in it, so steering clutches shouldn't be needed--just twin brakes. I believe most crawlers omit the differential because it's hard to make sturdy enough, and it would make it possible for the tractor to drift to one side rather that going straight when digging with only one end of the blade. Shouldn't be an issue on this doodad. I have a trans axle but sure wish for them clutches none the less . In fact I consider it a design flaw on mine ;-( . I keep meaning to fire the designer ;-) . Nick is right in my opinion . You can get by without but it is harder on the machine . Cheaper though and a ton less engineering . Also with clutches I could have posi . It is a minor pain but would be nice the odd time . Now if a track spins on steep or sloppy ground I brake that track and it powers through . Just it annoys me . If a chain broke stopping even on steep hill would be no problem . If the tranny failed . Well in my case I think stopping with the brakes would depend on the load . If fully loaded I think it would be time to jump ship and hope the landing spot was better then the crash site ;-) . Normal operating speed is so slow you do have some reaction time . Ken Cutt |
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Seems even my best efforts could not stump " MR. Stallings " ;-)
So here are the links http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/track_machine.txt http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_001.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_002.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_003.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_004.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_005.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_006.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_007.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_008.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_009.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_010.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_011.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_012.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_013.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_014.jpg http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...e_2005_015.jpg |
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