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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Chain Drive Tracked Vehicle



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 29th 05, 03:38 PM
Bernd
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Default Chain Drive Tracked Vehicle

I'm in the process of building a tracked snowblower using a 53hp VW
Beetle engine and transmission. In order to slow down the speed from the
output from the tranny I want to use a double reduction chain drive.
Hopefully this will propel the vehicle at a decent slow speed in either
first or second gear. I know some of you are going to say why not use a
hydrostatic drive. One reason is size for this vehicle would dictate a
rather large drive which would probably be cost prohibitive. Also I have
a majority of the material already for the chain drive. Perhaps in the
future I might be able to get a hydrostatic drive from a farm vehicle,
such as a haybine at an auction, but for now it'll be chain drive. If
anybody gets the Farm Show Magazine, there is a picture of a homebuilt
tracked vehicle by a guy up in Minnesota by the name of Larry Brown.
This is close to what I would like to build. I already have the frame
welded together. Next step is to build the tracks.

So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp
and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive
the rear wheel, would that size be about right?

Regards,
Bernd


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  #2  
Old January 29th 05, 03:49 PM
Ecnerwal
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Default

In article ,
"Bernd" wrote:

So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp
and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive
the rear wheel, would that size be about right?


Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles
with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in
possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt
drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be
well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require
adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. The
inexpensive and practical approach to that is probably to drop by a M/C
junkyard - new prices tend to be a bit shocking.

Another (inexpensive, junkyard) approach would be to slap in a second
automotive (or M/C) transmission, driven from the first one - gives the
ability to change your ratios easily if you guess wrong, since it's a
prototype.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by
  #3  
Old January 29th 05, 03:54 PM
Bernd
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Default

I'm sure some of you would like some pictures to look at so here are 3.

First is the frame of my vehicle on the garage floor before welding.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/vw1.jpg

I should have turned the picture 90degree ccw for better viewing. Sorry.

Next is the "Home-Built Tracked Vehicle" by Larry Brown.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/track001.jpg

And here's the whole article about the vehicle.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/track2.jpg

Enjoy,
Bernd


  #4  
Old January 29th 05, 04:02 PM
Bernd
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"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles
with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not
in
possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle
belt
drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to
be
well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require
adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves. The
inexpensive and practical approach to that is probably to drop by a
M/C
junkyard - new prices tend to be a bit shocking.


Are these belts cogged by any chance? Also do you have any rough
dimensions as to width of belt. I had forgotten that the Harley uses
belts, right?

Another (inexpensive, junkyard) approach would be to slap in a second
automotive (or M/C) transmission, driven from the first one - gives
the
ability to change your ratios easily if you guess wrong, since it's a
prototype.


Don't know if your familar with the VW tranny, but the motor mounts to
it in the usall way. But the final drive is also in the transmission. No
drive shaft to attach another tranny. I had thought of this but is very
difficult to do. I should take a picture of the tranny sitting on the
frame you you can see what it looks like. All I need to do is get all
the junk off of it the has acumulated on it over the last several
months. Since it's going to be a nice warm weekend here in NY, I might
just clear things out and take a picture and post it.

Thanks Larry for the info on the possibility of using a belt drive.
Hadn't thought of that.

Bernd

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by



  #5  
Old January 29th 05, 04:49 PM
jtaylor
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Default


"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...

Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements. Motorcycles
with considerably more power use chain or belt drives. If you're not in
possesion of the sprockets, I'd suggest considering the motorcycle belt
drives as being less maintenence headache over time - they do need to be
well-aligned to begin with, but they stretch less (thus require
adjusting less) and attract a lot less dirt & grime to themselves.


Far and away the major cause of cycle chain "stretch" is wear due to road
dust/grit.

Enclosing the chain fully in a case with an oilbath will remove this.




  #6  
Old January 29th 05, 05:01 PM
Leo Lichtman
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"Ecnerwal" wrote: Motorcycle chains should be up to the power requirements.
Motorcycles with considerably more power use chain or belt drives.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, remember that a motorcycle develops full power at around 100 mph,
while a snow blower goes, maybe, 3-4 mph. If you really need 50 HP at that
low speed, the chain tension will be about 25 to 30 times as high. However,
I am not clear on the concept. Isn't most of the power going to be used to
throw the snow? How much will actually be used to drive the wheels, and how
are you planning to divide it?


  #7  
Old January 29th 05, 05:40 PM
mike cordless
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:

Go here www.emerson-ept.com, you must register to git in da gate but
might be some good info. I didn't register so don't know. Dese boys
own morse chain, and browning gear and prolly have lots of info.
Looking at what yer building I'd use 80 chain. Prolly over built.
Maybe git by wit 60. I've changed enough chain to know bigger is
better. If you have the space. If you break something it won't be the
chain, prolly the key.
---------------------------------SNIP-----------------------------------------------
So here's my question, what size chain should be used for the given hp
and application? Seems like motorcycles use quite a large chain to drive
the rear wheel, would that size be about right?

Regards,
Bernd


  #8  
Old January 29th 05, 05:55 PM
Bernd
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Default


"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

However, remember that a motorcycle develops full power at around 100
mph, while a snow blower goes, maybe, 3-4 mph. If you really need 50
HP at that low speed, the chain tension will be about 25 to 30 times
as high. However, I am not clear on the concept. Isn't most of the
power going to be used to throw the snow? How much will actually be
used to drive the wheels, and how are you planning to divide it?


The engine that I'm using, a 4 cylinder opposed VW air-cooled engine,
happens to be around 50hp. Remember I said I'm using the stuff I have
laying around. I'm just going to try to put it all together in a
project. So with that said the engine will drive the vehicle and a
separate engine, 10 to 15 hp will drive a detachable snowblower. I'm
going to upload a few more pictures to make it clearer as to what it
will look like.

Bernd


  #9  
Old January 29th 05, 05:56 PM
Bernd
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Default


"mike cordless" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:38:59 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:

Go here www.emerson-ept.com, you must register to git in da gate but
might be some good info. I didn't register so don't know. Dese boys
own morse chain, and browning gear and prolly have lots of info.
Looking at what yer building I'd use 80 chain. Prolly over built.
Maybe git by wit 60. I've changed enough chain to know bigger is
better. If you have the space. If you break something it won't be the
chain, prolly the key.


Thanks Mike.


  #10  
Old January 29th 05, 06:10 PM
Bernd
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Default

I've uploade a few more pics for those that want to see how far I've
gotten and what it looks like at this point in the project.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/frame1.jpg

This picture shows the frame all welded up and the tranny with shift, by
the way it'll be a four speed, mechanism setting on the frame. The frame
is 7 feet long and about 30" wide.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/tranny1.jpg

This is a closer veiw of a 4 forward and one reverse speed aluminum VW
transmision. From lower rigth to upper left is as follows: bell housing,
differential, trannsmision, shift linkage. The drive from the tranny is
through two sets of constant velocity joints, one on the tranny and one
on the wishbone trailing arm holding the rear drive wheel.

http://kingstonemodeleng.com/vw/tranny2.jpg

Here's a closer view of the transfer part of the case. The constant
velocity joint is bolted to this part with 6 bolts. I plan on makeing
somethign out of round stock to were I can wweld a small sproket and
bolt to the drive axle, just like the original velocity joint.

I hope I've cleared up some questions on my project as to what it looks
like and why I'm doing the things I am. I have 4 front wheel drive VW's
setting around and a Beetle chassi that was once used for a dunebuggy I
had. So I'm using the parts from these to build the snowblower vehicle.

Bernd



 




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