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#1
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OT advice on running wires for a sur. sound unit???
I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig |
#2
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Distribution amplifiers are better than splitters. Each time you split
a signal its strength is cut in half. I don't watch TV but from what I remember there aren't many signals that come in very clearly anyway so cutting signal power by 50% doesn't make sense. - GWE Craig wrote: I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig |
#3
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sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type Surround sound 5.1 -two front speakers -two rear speakers -center channel speaker on top of TV -sub woofer in the corner Surround sound 6.1 adds one more rear speaker. I use generic speaker cable from MSC. Probably 14 ga. My speakers just have clip type jacks on the back. Nothing fancy. put in speaker wire and cover with blank plates. Figure out the connectors when you install speakers. |
#4
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"Craig" wrote in message oups.com... I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig 16 Ga. speaker wire will work fine. Wherever the wire is running out of a wall, use a mud ring screwed to a stud or a low voltage trim ring. Home depot has quickport jacks specifically for speakers, they use a screw connector on back and either a screw down or banana plug on the front. http://www.leviton-lin.com/catalog/B...uildPageID=616 Snap the connectors into a 2 port plate, attach the speaker wires to the back then mount the plate on the mudring. Behind the TV I used a Pass Seymour HT26-LA plate. http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/D33-35.pdf It has all the connections for a 5.1 system labeled for easy hookups. About $35 at menards. My site has some pictures under Family room remodel if you want to check it out, it's not very informative, but it's something to look at. I used electrical boxes and smurf tubing but it was overkill. Nate -- http://www.Weber-Automation.net:8000 |
#5
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In article ,
Charles A. Sherwood wrote: sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type Surround sound 5.1 -two front speakers -two rear speakers -center channel speaker on top of TV -sub woofer in the corner Surround sound 6.1 adds one more rear speaker. I use generic speaker cable from MSC. Probably 14 ga. My speakers just have clip type jacks on the back. Nothing fancy. put in speaker wire and cover with blank plates. Figure out the connectors when you install speakers. But put unique labels on each wire at each end, to simplify identification when the time to put them into service comes around. Certainly, I would not even *consider* using RCA plugs and jacks for serious speaker connections. And I probably would put in an array of quality binding posts for the task -- which can be used either to terminate normal wires, or to accept dual banana plugs (just make sure that you have the binding posts spaced 3/4" so the dual banana plugs will fit. The better quality binding posts are available with replacement insulators to hold that spacing, and some even with triangular patterns for three-way connections as well. My personal favorite for binding posts are those made by Greyhill (I hope that they are still in business). General Radio made some good ones as well, and another style whose manufacturer I never knew. Those latter ones were the ones used by Power Designs on their power supplies, and they had a fat hex knob on each. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#6
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Craig,
What surround mode are you using, THX, Dolby Digital 5.1, 6.1, 7.1??? What power is your amp per channel? What is the wire distance from the amp to your speakers? What is the wattage/impedance rating of your speakers (rms)? THX has different speaker locations than the others. If you have a 250watt/channel amp with 250 watt/2 ohm speakers running 50' of 16ga wire, it's not gonna be pretty. This is a worse-case scenario but wire size, power and impedance make a difference.One hundred feet of 16ga wire (50' pair) can have greater impedance than the speaker at higher power. Not good on the amp or the ears. Higher power, higher current, larger wire. Having said all that, if yours ears are like mine, it really doesn't make a rip! But when your neighbor or brother-in-law comes over.... Respectfully, Ron Moore "Craig" wrote in message oups.com... I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig |
#7
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For 10-20 watts of power, the 16 ga. wire will do alright but if you have
more power than that, larger wire will be better off. I'd just grab some 2 wire romex or other such dual cables and run about 12 gauge solid wire for better results and use the 5 way binding posts to provide a connection. Mark each pair of wires with a colored tape so that you can identify them at the other end and mark the cover plates with what the connection is. RCA connectors are designed for low power uses so using them on speakers would be overworking the connectors badly. -- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole? |
#8
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Craig wrote:
I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig First of all the Speakers are typically High Tech small ones - likely 4 or 8 ohms. So they haul current that is for sure. I put on Monster cable - and have much better sound than the dinky wires shipped. So as many strand, as large - 14ga isn't to big. One the split cable - yes have something on both ends. A TV and a splitter or 75 ohm load on the other end. Don't use RCA jacks on the speakers - not enough current - but might be on the edge of ability. How many watts are you driving with your 5.1 or 4.3 system. We have three systems in the house. I'll have one in my shop once moved. Had to upgrade to a second generation unit and the third is my Sons. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
#9
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I Grant you on that one Grant - however I get service from the pole
via a pair of splits that make three legs (three phase ?) then I split it again and reamp it to the shop and office. The three main sites all have more than enough signal. The AVC AGC automatic voltage control gain control of these 'set top boxes' is great. A Sat LNA amplifier might not be as strong as the Fiber optic split to copper splits I have. Martin Grant Erwin wrote: Distribution amplifiers are better than splitters. Each time you split a signal its strength is cut in half. I don't watch TV but from what I remember there aren't many signals that come in very clearly anyway so cutting signal power by 50% doesn't make sense. - GWE Craig wrote: I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers? I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup, and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors, they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes, that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this would be great. Thanks, Craig -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
#10
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I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my
ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have the access to install wires. Does the cable splitter reduce quality when only one set is hooked to it? There will never be more than that, Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able to move the TV!!). I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged. Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two wires side by side? Thanks for all the help Craig |
#11
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In article .com,
Craig wrote: I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have the access to install wires. While you're there -- run some CAT-5 or even better CAT-6 wires so you can use them for high-speed computer networking if you need to do that. The connector for that is the RJ-45. Does the cable splitter reduce quality when only one set is hooked to it? Yes -- there is 3db signal loss from the original cable to each branch. And if there is any length of cable going from the splitter to where a TV *could* be, but *isn't*, you should get a 75 ohm terminator on that to prevent reflections, too. There will never be more than that, Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able to move the TV!!). O.K. I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence to the size of 12ga.? "Monster cable" is a brand of particularly over-priced cable. It is sold to those who believe that $150.00 wooden knobs improve the sound of a system. :-) If you're planning to run low-impedance speakers (typical speakers are 4 ohm, 8 ohm, or 16 ohm), and are planning to run rather high peak powers, install heavier gauge wires. The longer the run, the heavier the gauge you will need. But I suspect that 2 ga would be overkill for almost any home system. If you truly believe in overkill, go for 4-0 wires (about the diameter of your thumb. :-) The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Yes -- and they also have an end-on hole to accept a banana plug. The good ones have a metal part (nut) which screws onto the post, with a plastic insulating part for you to grip as you screw it down. The post also will have a flat piece which can accept a fork terminal to go to either side of the post. The Cheap ones will have the nut all plastic, and may even not have the metal flange to accept fork terminals. Sounds rugged. Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Sure. Or does it have to be speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two wires side by side? Speaker wire typically has a transparent insulation (to make it blend into the background better), and (sometimes) one of the two wires is tinned, while the other is bare copper, so you can tell the two wires apart. But even zip cord will do for that. It typically has ridges molded into one side only, to allow you to identify the two sides. Speaker wire is usually designed to be less objectionable in view, though some (such as the "Monster Cable") can be very objectionable in view. If you can find a color of zip cord to match your wall background, it could be the better choice. The main thing that speaker wire does is make a living for HI-FI store owners. The same in spades for "Monster Cable". :-) Now -- if you are running quite a few speaker feeds along the same narrow space, ideally you should twist each pair, instead of running them side by side, to minimize crosstalk. You'll find the same principle (on a much smaller scale) in phone cables, and especially in CAT-5 and CAT-6 cables. There (the CAT-? cables), even the rate of twist changes from one pair to the next, to reduce the crosstalk even more. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#12
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Craig wrote:
Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged. Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two wires side by side? Speaker wire is very different. The difference is the price. By calling it speaker wire you can charge up to ten times as much for it. However when I compared Monster Cable with 14ga hardware store wire using characteristic impedance measurements and time domain reflectometry no difference appeared. You want wire heavy enough so that the loop resistance of the wire (i.e. resistance/foot times twice the length of the run) is small compared to the speaker resistance. Example: A 50' run of #14 two conductor wire will have a loop resistance of a bit more than 1/4 ohm. This will have no effect (as in undetectable) on sound quality. 100 watts average power (there is no meaning to the term rms power) sine wave into 4 ohms is only 5 amps rms and #14 wire is what is used for 15amp house wiring circuits. Music is not a sine wave - it has a _much_ higher peak-to-average ratio than a sine wave (such as 60Hz power) and consequently will heat the wire far less. Save your money and buy side-by-side or twisted pair 14ga lamp cord. Oh, and BTW, I have made extensive measurements on many amps over the last 60 years and have only ever encountered one that actually put out its rated power in real world tests. Power ratings of audio amplifiers are almost always used hay. An _honest_ 100 watts per channel is huge! Ted |
#13
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Thank you for all your help, I learned a lot about this. Thanks again,
Craig |
#14
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Craig wrote:
I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have the access to install wires. Does the cable splitter reduce quality when only one set is hooked to it? There will never be more than that, Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able to move the TV!!). I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged. Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two wires side by side? Thanks for all the help Craig These systems don't require splitting. The main wire from the pole/Dish-LNA goes to the "set top box" and the output of it - either F wire (coax) or several other high tech cable sets are then sent to the S. Sound System. From it (that contains RF relays and other goodies) a cable F,or a set of several other signals is sent to TV, Another to the Tape system and so on... It is well documented. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
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