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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

DRO System Mill/Drill



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 1st 04, 06:42 PM
Kenneth A. Emmert
external usenet poster
 
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Default DRO System Mill/Drill

Over a year ago I started hunting for a DRO system for my Mill/Drill! I
looked at everything offered for a system. What I found were 2 key problems
system price was one and other DRO installation.

A Mill/Drill has no built in mounting points for DRO addition unlike many
knee mills. I quickly found that no DRO system seller had any support or
installation design for a Mill/Drill! Scale accuracy of a DRO system is
absolutely dependent on its mounting system. Most reasonably priced system
matched purchase cost my mill/drill and the rest were much higher!

Problems aside I still wanted the major benefits of an instrument based
positioning system, repeatable accuracy and reduced layout time!
Frustration is a great motivator; I ended up hunting the world for a
solution. I eventually located scales that supplied needed quality and
repeatable accuracy. Also now have manufactured an easy to read and use
3-axis LCD display system.

I decided to form these components into a Kit! Put in the time needed to
engineer a rigid mounting system and write an easy to follow installation
guide. My secondary goal for a mounting system was too use existing
fastening points. Complete installation requires only 2 new fastening
points.

Over the past 4 months I have been selling system in limited numbers
primarily on EBay. User input has been very helpful for continued
development! Comments have been enthusiastic on both accuracy and value of
this DRO system. Systems have been installed on machines from RF15 to RF45
and clones. One major need did become apparent in testing many users needed
brackets to be supplied. Those are now included with kit purchase along with
1 year USA Warrantee and installation support. System cost is under $400.00
and can be viewed on EBay Item #3857220019 or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3857220019



Thanks,



Ken

Kenneth A. Emmert

SMW Precision

509-216-4959


Ads
  #2  
Old December 1st 04, 06:53 PM
Grant Erwin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm not in your target marketplace, but if I were, I'd not bid on your
auction because the pictures don't show me what I'd need to know. You
might consider doing a little more work on your auction posting -- it
might return you a lot more money.

GWE

Kenneth A. Emmert wrote:

Over a year ago I started hunting for a DRO system for my Mill/Drill! I
looked at everything offered for a system. What I found were 2 key problems
system price was one and other DRO installation.

A Mill/Drill has no built in mounting points for DRO addition unlike many
knee mills. I quickly found that no DRO system seller had any support or
installation design for a Mill/Drill! Scale accuracy of a DRO system is
absolutely dependent on its mounting system. Most reasonably priced system
matched purchase cost my mill/drill and the rest were much higher!

Problems aside I still wanted the major benefits of an instrument based
positioning system, repeatable accuracy and reduced layout time!
Frustration is a great motivator; I ended up hunting the world for a
solution. I eventually located scales that supplied needed quality and
repeatable accuracy. Also now have manufactured an easy to read and use
3-axis LCD display system.

I decided to form these components into a Kit! Put in the time needed to
engineer a rigid mounting system and write an easy to follow installation
guide. My secondary goal for a mounting system was too use existing
fastening points. Complete installation requires only 2 new fastening
points.

Over the past 4 months I have been selling system in limited numbers
primarily on EBay. User input has been very helpful for continued
development! Comments have been enthusiastic on both accuracy and value of
this DRO system. Systems have been installed on machines from RF15 to RF45
and clones. One major need did become apparent in testing many users needed
brackets to be supplied. Those are now included with kit purchase along with
1 year USA Warrantee and installation support. System cost is under $400.00
and can be viewed on EBay Item #3857220019 or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3857220019



Thanks,



Ken

Kenneth A. Emmert

SMW Precision

509-216-4959


  #3  
Old December 1st 04, 08:58 PM
Ahernwill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That looks like the Chinese made unite from SD ZIMA- uses the scales from
digital calipers which can be ordered in either horizontal or vertical
display or with the remote display. Wholesale Tool offers this system as
well. Problems with batteries in scales and poor cabling connections have
plagued these units as well as low resolution- the scales are highly
sensitive to liquids, so are not good on the tables where flood coolants are
used.
Mounting is pretty simple as the scales have a bracket on each end and they
can be cut with a high speed abrasive wheel. The unit I had experience with
used LCD display which was not bright.
"Kenneth A. Emmert" wrote in message
...
Over a year ago I started hunting for a DRO system for my Mill/Drill! I
looked at everything offered for a system. What I found were 2 key

problems
system price was one and other DRO installation.

A Mill/Drill has no built in mounting points for DRO addition unlike many
knee mills. I quickly found that no DRO system seller had any support or
installation design for a Mill/Drill! Scale accuracy of a DRO system is
absolutely dependent on its mounting system. Most reasonably priced

system
matched purchase cost my mill/drill and the rest were much higher!

Problems aside I still wanted the major benefits of an instrument based
positioning system, repeatable accuracy and reduced layout time!
Frustration is a great motivator; I ended up hunting the world for a
solution. I eventually located scales that supplied needed quality and
repeatable accuracy. Also now have manufactured an easy to read and use
3-axis LCD display system.

I decided to form these components into a Kit! Put in the time needed to
engineer a rigid mounting system and write an easy to follow installation
guide. My secondary goal for a mounting system was too use existing
fastening points. Complete installation requires only 2 new fastening
points.

Over the past 4 months I have been selling system in limited numbers
primarily on EBay. User input has been very helpful for continued
development! Comments have been enthusiastic on both accuracy and value

of
this DRO system. Systems have been installed on machines from RF15 to

RF45
and clones. One major need did become apparent in testing many users

needed
brackets to be supplied. Those are now included with kit purchase along

with
1 year USA Warrantee and installation support. System cost is under

$400.00
and can be viewed on EBay Item #3857220019 or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3857220019



Thanks,



Ken

Kenneth A. Emmert

SMW Precision

509-216-4959




  #4  
Old December 2nd 04, 03:32 AM
Kenneth A. Emmert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Response:



That looks like the Chinese made unite from SD ZIMA- uses the scales from
digital calipers which can be ordered in either horizontal or vertical
display or with the remote display-

Measurement system used in these scales and digital calipers are the same!
Display bodies and travel beams are different in design and manufactured
exactly for this product. X-axis scale beam is about an 11/8" wide and a
1/4" thick Z-axis beam is 7/8th" wide and 3/16" thick both hardened
Stainless Steel. I am not familiar with SD ZIMA!





Wholesale Tool offers this system as well- They do not sell a similar unit!
They do sell scales manufactured in China Wholesale Tool price for 3
similar appearing and length scales $363.00. They do not list a 20" scale
only a 24" horizontal I charge $25.00 extra for the increased length. They
do sell a 3-axis display unit which will only work with Mitutoyo's Digimatic
Scales and none that work with a 4 prong SPC port.



Problems with batteries in scales and poor cabling connections have plagued
these units! One of the upgrades added to my system is Lithium batteries
they have a 3 year plus life span with continuous operation, Cabling
connections have not proved to be a problem with these units. Installation
guide covers cable running and tying there have been no reported problems!



As well as low resolution- One of the areas I am fanatical on is scale
resolution. DRO system is of little value without consistent accuracy.
Part of the guarantee/warrantee is scale accuracy! It took samples from
several manufactures before I found one who supplied what I demanded for
repeatable accuracy. Where problems occur is these instruments all appear
the same with many sellers of factory seconds. I only buy or sell Factory
first quality and check a percentage of each shipment for accuracy and
repeatable accuracy.



Scales are highly sensitive to liquids, so are not good on the tables where
flood coolants are used- Scales have integrated wipers and use of flood
coolant is not recommended with out covering display body. System works
well with misting systems no problems reported!



LCD display was not bright- Which is true, they do have great contrast and
are easier on the eyes in long term use. I would not recommend a LCD
display for use in a poorly lighted shop.



Point of this product is to provide an option for homeshop and small shop
users. DRO systems in general are priced out of practical reach for many
users. Or if they do spend the money they quickly find a mill/drilll
problematic to install a DRO system on! Installations times of 30 to 40
hours are not unusual and many have been unable to ever get a correctly
working Z-axis.

This system provides excellent accuracy along with installation design and
support. If you read my EBay feedback you will find buyers agree with that
statement!



Ken

Kenneth A. Emmert

SMW Precision









  #5  
Old December 2nd 04, 01:11 PM
Ahernwill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

After more research I found the CBX system from Canada to have better
accuracy, more functions and easier mounting for near the same price- 549.00
2 axis, 749.99 for 3 axis
www.startechno.com




That looks like the Chinese made unite from SD ZIMA- uses the scales from
digital calipers which can be ordered in either horizontal or vertical
display or with the remote display-

Measurement system used in these scales and digital calipers are the same!
Display bodies and travel beams are different in design and manufactured
exactly for this product. X-axis scale beam is about an 11/8" wide and a
1/4" thick Z-axis beam is 7/8th" wide and 3/16" thick both hardened
Stainless Steel. I am not familiar with SD ZIMA!





Wholesale Tool offers this system as well- They do not sell a similar

unit!
They do sell scales manufactured in China Wholesale Tool price for 3
similar appearing and length scales $363.00. They do not list a 20" scale
only a 24" horizontal I charge $25.00 extra for the increased length.

They
do sell a 3-axis display unit which will only work with Mitutoyo's

Digimatic
Scales and none that work with a 4 prong SPC port.



Problems with batteries in scales and poor cabling connections have

plagued
these units! One of the upgrades added to my system is Lithium batteries
they have a 3 year plus life span with continuous operation, Cabling
connections have not proved to be a problem with these units.

Installation
guide covers cable running and tying there have been no reported problems!



As well as low resolution- One of the areas I am fanatical on is scale
resolution. DRO system is of little value without consistent accuracy.
Part of the guarantee/warrantee is scale accuracy! It took samples from
several manufactures before I found one who supplied what I demanded for
repeatable accuracy. Where problems occur is these instruments all appear
the same with many sellers of factory seconds. I only buy or sell Factory
first quality and check a percentage of each shipment for accuracy and
repeatable accuracy.



Scales are highly sensitive to liquids, so are not good on the tables

where
flood coolants are used- Scales have integrated wipers and use of flood
coolant is not recommended with out covering display body. System works
well with misting systems no problems reported!



LCD display was not bright- Which is true, they do have great contrast and
are easier on the eyes in long term use. I would not recommend a LCD
display for use in a poorly lighted shop.



Point of this product is to provide an option for homeshop and small shop
users. DRO systems in general are priced out of practical reach for many
users. Or if they do spend the money they quickly find a mill/drilll
problematic to install a DRO system on! Installations times of 30 to 40
hours are not unusual and many have been unable to ever get a correctly
working Z-axis.

This system provides excellent accuracy along with installation design and
support. If you read my EBay feedback you will find buyers agree with

that
statement!



Ken

Kenneth A. Emmert

SMW Precision











  #6  
Old December 2nd 04, 05:01 PM
Charles A. Sherwood
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Posts: n/a
Default

knee mills. I quickly found that no DRO system seller had any support or
installation design for a Mill/Drill!


I managed to mount a Sargon 2 axis DRO on my Jet mill drill by drilling a
few holes and screwing it down.


absolutely dependent on its mounting system. Most reasonably priced system
matched purchase cost my mill/drill and the rest were much higher!


You get what you pay for. Glass scales are not cheap.
  #7  
Old December 2nd 04, 05:35 PM
Kenneth A. Emmert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ahernwill" wrote in message
.net...
After more research I found the CBX system from Canada to have better
accuracy, more functions and easier mounting for near the same price-
549.00
2 axis, 749.99 for 3 axis
www.startechno.com


CBX is the next system up in price at $750.00 for a 3-axis DRO system. Cost
is exactly twice the price! Resolution of 0.0005 are the same on both
system fuctions are the same except CBX has a reversible count direction
function. User reviews of the CBX product have been positive!
Installation instructions consist of some user installation pictures and
there is no support or design for installation. Pictured installations show
about 8 new fastening points needing to be added. No picture of a Z-axis
installation is shown and that is where buyers have run into problems.
It was after reviewing the CBX system installations and focus group
installation problems with my system that it became clear a designed
installation system was required. A mill/drill in not a user friendly
machine for an unplanned DRO installation!

Appreciate your comments and interest!

Ken
Kenneth A. Emmert
SMW Precision


  #8  
Old December 2nd 04, 05:49 PM
ERich10983
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I bought some Acu-rite scales that were in a pile of "miscellaneous" and had an
Analam Wizard dual readout display given to me months later. The scales just
plugged in and worked perfectly.

I mounted the scales to 1"x1/4" aluminum bar stock and attached those
assemblies to the mill. I just had to jig around a little with standoff spacing
but the assembly has been in use for about 5 years.

The vertical scale is from a salvaged printer feeding into a Red Lion counter.
It doesn't have enough resolution, only giving me .01" resolution, but better
than nothing. For precise vertical adjustment, I use a seperate Mitutoyo sensor
and readout. Cumbersome and slow, but "hey, what's time to an amateur".

Earle Rich
Mont Vernon, NH
  #9  
Old December 2nd 04, 06:33 PM
Peter Grey
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Kenneth A. Emmert" wrote in message
...
Over a year ago I started hunting for a DRO system for my Mill/Drill! I
looked at everything offered for a system.


How does your product differ from what ShumaTech offers in terms of
functionality and capabilities? I understand that ShumaTech's product is a
kit, but I'm wondering what the differences are once both are up and
running.

Peter


  #10  
Old December 2nd 04, 09:07 PM
Kenneth A. Emmert
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Posts: n/a
Default


How does your product differ from what ShumaTech offers in terms of
functionality and capabilities? I understand that ShumaTech's product is
a kit, but I'm wondering what the differences are once both are up and
running.

Peter


Peter,

Shumatech is a hobby group for building a DRO display system I am a member!
Shumatech display is a total you build it project if you have some
electronics experience and time it can be an excellent display. Lots of
advanced features with that system I would not discourage anyone from
building one.
Parts costs are between a $100 to $150 and build time about 10 hours by the
time you order parts and assemble. I have sold scales and connecting cables
for Shumatech systems and continue to do so! It is another available option
though not a commercial product.

Ken


 




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