I'm looking to replace at least part of my heterogenous collection of
wrenches, sockets and other mechanic's tools with something better. I'm
willing to spend the money to do it right, but I'm not sure what 'right'
is.

Back in the 1960s Snap-On was a highly regarded brand of professional
tools. But things change and I don't know about now.

What would you folks recommend as a brand of high-quality tools?

--RC

Snap-On
Steve
"Rick Cook" wrote in message
...
I'm looking to replace at least part of my heterogenous collection of
wrenches, sockets and other mechanic's tools with something better. I'm
willing to spend the money to do it right, but I'm not sure what 'right'
is.

Back in the 1960s Snap-On was a highly regarded brand of professional
tools. But things change and I don't know about now.

What would you folks recommend as a brand of high-quality tools?

--RC

cant go wrong with snap on

but what are you going to be using them for

are you turning wrenches for a living or is this for hobby?

is your hobby building concourse cars ?

craftsmen and cobalt as well as proto are all very reliable and well made
tools ,

most of mine are snap on , but then I use mine to pay my mortgage

williamhenry wrote:

cant go wrong with snap on

but what are you going to be using them for

are you turning wrenches for a living or is this for hobby?

is your hobby building concourse cars ?

craftsmen and cobalt as well as proto are all very reliable and well made
tools ,

most of mine are snap on , but then I use mine to pay my mortgage

Strictly a hobby and I haven't done much mechanic's work in 20 years or so.
Hence the question.

--RC

craftsmen would probably treat you just fine , it is what I use at home

Easy bang for the buck is Craftsman end wrenches on sale.
Same with screwdrivers.
I won't be buying anymore Craftsman sockets.
Take a look at KD Tools for those, or for the whole works. That's the Danaher
company, which makes a lot of recognixzable brands these days.

Matter of fact, KD has been doing special buy-ins to their distributors on
various sets, big and small, which has most of us loaded up. You might check
with your local parts store, see if they or their supplier stocks KD, and ask
them to find you a real deal on one of the bigger sets.


On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:34:46 GMT, Rick Cook
wrote:

||williamhenry wrote:
||
|| cant go wrong with snap on
||
|| but what are you going to be using them for
||
|| are you turning wrenches for a living or is this for hobby?
||
|| is your hobby building concourse cars ?
||
|| craftsmen and cobalt as well as proto are all very reliable and well made
|| tools ,
||
|| most of mine are snap on , but then I use mine to pay my mortgage
||
||Strictly a hobby and I haven't done much mechanic's work in 20 years or so.
||Hence the question.
||
||--RC
||
||

Texas Parts Guy

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:34:46 GMT, Rick Cook
wrote:

Strictly a hobby and I haven't done much mechanic's work in 20 years or so.
Hence the question.

--RC


If you have a Home Depot nearby, Husky tools are a pretty good value
for hobby work. Certainly cheaper than some of the other professional
grades mentioned.

--
Bryce

Rick Cook wrote:
I'm looking to replace at least part of my heterogenous collection of
wrenches, sockets and other mechanic's tools with something better.

I went through this about a year ago when I wanted to buy some tools for
my son. The short answer is that most mechanic's tools are made by
Danaher or Stanley (you can check google for my list). At the time
Kobalt tools were made by J.C. Williams and were good. Now they are made
by Danaher and are not good. Cornwall still makes their own tools, last
I heard. Cooper tools makes Crescent, which is what I bought the last
time I bought tools. I like Crescent, though made in Taiwan they may be,
and MSC is always running a sale on them.

Kevin Gallimore


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On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Bryce
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:34:46 GMT, Rick Cook
wrote:

Strictly a hobby and I haven't done much mechanic's work in 20 years or so.
Hence the question.

--RC


If you have a Home Depot nearby, Husky tools are a pretty good value
for hobby work. Certainly cheaper than some of the other professional
grades mentioned.
In Canada, the Mastercraft Professional tools from Canadian Tire are
pretty decent stuff.
I made my living for 25 years with Craftsman tools - and I still have
the majority of that first set - missing a few that got lost or
pinched by apprentices and fellow workers. Had a few replaced under
Warranty.
I also liked the SK tools - and bought a fair amount of Herbrand over
the years. I bought Snap-On when I had to.
Also a smattering of Mac and Proto and the odd Husky - and KD for
specialty tools.

Some years the usage was light - working on Toyotas etc, and other
years it was heavy - buldozers, farm equipment, backhoes, ditchers,
etc.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:34:46 GMT, Rick Cook
calmly ranted:

williamhenry wrote:

cant go wrong with snap on

but what are you going to be using them for

are you turning wrenches for a living or is this for hobby?

is your hobby building concourse cars ?

craftsmen and cobalt as well as proto are all very reliable and well made
tools ,

most of mine are snap on , but then I use mine to pay my mortgage

Strictly a hobby and I haven't done much mechanic's work in 20 years or so.
Hence the question.

Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

----
- Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it? -
http://diversify.com Web Applications

Heh heh. I completely agree.



Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

"AL" wrote in message
newsFQ1d.437687$%_6.102829@attbi_s01...
Heh heh. I completely agree.



Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.



On the aircraft at work, I've got all MAC or Snap-On. Their box end
wrenches have the thin walls that you have to have in tight places. At
home, (or hobby stuff, I guess it could also be called), got a lot of
Craftsman wreches that come up on sale. In my opinion, they're fine for
this application. What's the problem?

Garrett Fulton




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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:47:27 -0400, "Garrett Fulton"
calmly ranted:

"AL" wrote in message
newsFQ1d.437687$%_6.102829@attbi_s01...
Heh heh. I completely agree.

Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

On the aircraft at work, I've got all MAC or Snap-On. Their box end
wrenches have the thin walls that you have to have in tight places. At
home, (or hobby stuff, I guess it could also be called), got a lot of
Craftsman wreches that come up on sale. In my opinion, they're fine for
this application. What's the problem?

I started my professional career as an auto mechanic in 1974.
By late in the decade, Craftsman had started turning into
Crapsman. In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.
I then started buying MAC, Snap-On, Cornwall, and even HF tools.
Cheap Chiwanese junk was better than Crapsman at the time. I
literally lost a pound of flesh to those damned tools. Add a
gallon of blood to the ticket and it was a costly mistake for
me to have continued using the damned things as long as I did.
Oh, I didn't mention that the counter people gave me crap about
some of the tools, too. I had to escalate to Tool or Store
managers about 1/4 of the time. Several of them tried to give me
non-Crapsman tools in trade, so when they broke (as they always
did) I wouldn't be able to ask for a replacement. Feh!

Anyway, I vowed "Never Again!".

But...
Just 2 weeks ago my old 1/4" spinner handle split in half. It
was in an early Craftsman 1/4" drive set. I grudgingly went to
the local Searz counter and asked for a replacement. "OK, but we
don't stock them. We'll call it in and they will mail the
replacement to you." I agreed and left.

The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

----
- Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it? -
http://diversify.com Web Applications

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:47:27 -0400, "Garrett Fulton"
calmly ranted:

"AL" wrote in message
newsFQ1d.437687$%_6.102829@attbi_s01...
Heh heh. I completely agree.

Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

On the aircraft at work, I've got all MAC or Snap-On. Their box end
wrenches have the thin walls that you have to have in tight places. At
home, (or hobby stuff, I guess it could also be called), got a lot of
Craftsman wreches that come up on sale. In my opinion, they're fine for
this application. What's the problem?

I started my professional career as an auto mechanic in 1974.
By late in the decade, Craftsman had started turning into
Crapsman. In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.
I then started buying MAC, Snap-On, Cornwall, and even HF tools.
Cheap Chiwanese junk was better than Crapsman at the time. I
literally lost a pound of flesh to those damned tools. Add a
gallon of blood to the ticket and it was a costly mistake for
me to have continued using the damned things as long as I did.
Oh, I didn't mention that the counter people gave me crap about
some of the tools, too. I had to escalate to Tool or Store
managers about 1/4 of the time. Several of them tried to give me
non-Crapsman tools in trade, so when they broke (as they always
did) I wouldn't be able to ask for a replacement. Feh!

Anyway, I vowed "Never Again!".

But...
Just 2 weeks ago my old 1/4" spinner handle split in half. It
was in an early Craftsman 1/4" drive set. I grudgingly went to
the local Searz counter and asked for a replacement. "OK, but we
don't stock them. We'll call it in and they will mail the
replacement to you." I agreed and left.

The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

----
- Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it? -
http://diversify.com Web Applications



Yeah. You've had a run of bad luck with Craftsman and I can't say as I
blame you. It's just not been my experience, though. The only Craftsman
wrenches I've ever broken were ones I'd ground the ring down on a box-end to
fit somewhere on a tight area on a turbine engine. Long time ago and I
started with the MAC and Snap-On after that. Thinner.

Garrett




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I was always a Craftsman fan until the last 10 years or so. I've broken more
ratchet gears than I care to remember. I've had plating peel up on at least a
dozen wrenches and form a razor sharp edge. Neve broke a box end wrench but I
have some that are so thick that they will not fit in tight places. I have
always perfered a ratchet with a lever to reverse rather a knob that takes two
hands. No new Craftsman tool for me now, I buy from local hardware store and do
better

Larry Jaques writes:

In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.

Slow learner, are you? ;-)

Do you get the Japanese brand "Kamasa" in the US? Over here, it's
about the best buy one can get for home use: Kamasa tools are very
good, and inexpensive. (Not cheap; there are no good cheap tools.)

Of course, there are times when "very good" isn't enough. I once bent
a Kamasa socket wrench shaft (and bled some in the process) trying to
loosen a recalcitrant nut in a difficult place. Got so angry, I
walked straight to the nearest real tool merchant, slammed the damn
thing down on the counter, and said "I want something that doesn't do
that". He sold me a German (West German, back then) shaft made by
Stahlwille, and explained that if I ever (no time limit) managed to
damage it, I could take it to any Stahlwille retailer, anywhere, with
no receipt, and I'd get it replaced, absolutely no questions asked.

I still have it, of course. Good as new, 20 years later. :-)

-tih
--
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo, Senior System Administrator, EUnet Norway Hosting
www.eunet.no T +47-22092958 M +47-93013940 F +47-22092901 FWD 484145

I bought my first Snap-on's in April, 1940. Got the long 1/2" drive
ratchet, set of 15 scokets, and 2 extensions--total price $15 @ 50 cents
down and 50 cents a week Added to it over the years, but still have and use
the original.

Walt
"GMasterman" wrote in message
...
I was always a Craftsman fan until the last 10 years or so. I've broken
more
ratchet gears than I care to remember. I've had plating peel up on at
least a
dozen wrenches and form a razor sharp edge. Neve broke a box end wrench
but I
have some that are so thick that they will not fit in tight places. I have
always perfered a ratchet with a lever to reverse rather a knob that takes
two
hands. No new Craftsman tool for me now, I buy from local hardware store
and do
better

E. Walter Le Roy wrote:
I bought my first Snap-on's in April, 1940. Got the long 1/2" drive
ratchet, set of 15 scokets, and 2 extensions--total price $15 @ 50 cents
down and 50 cents a week Added to it over the years, but still have and use
the original.

I'll bet that in those days, that was a damm good
start for a toolbox. Now look where we are.. inch,
metric, deep, high impact, torx, hex, a bunch of
1/4" drive stuff, etc, etc...


Walt
"GMasterman" wrote in message
...

I was always a Craftsman fan until the last 10 years or so. I've broken

more

ratchet gears than I care to remember. I've had plating peel up on at

least a

dozen wrenches and form a razor sharp edge. Neve broke a box end wrench

but I

have some that are so thick that they will not fit in tight places. I have
always perfered a ratchet with a lever to reverse rather a knob that takes

two

hands. No new Craftsman tool for me now, I buy from local hardware store

and do

better

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:41:04 +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
calmly ranted:

Larry Jaques writes:

In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.

Slow learner, are you? ;-)

I guess so. Actually, most of those trips back were to
replace the same tools over and over: ratchets in all drive
sizes, ratchet repair kits (once they got the gist of it),
6 and 12pt sockets in all drives, a few combo wrenches.


Do you get the Japanese brand "Kamasa" in the US? Over here, it's
about the best buy one can get for home use: Kamasa tools are very
good, and inexpensive. (Not cheap; there are no good cheap tools.)

No, never heard of it. I have some very old eastern Indian wrenches
which had held up better than the Crapsmans.


Of course, there are times when "very good" isn't enough. I once bent

That's where my Snap-On purchases happened. I'm too much of a
tightwad otherwise.


a Kamasa socket wrench shaft (and bled some in the process) trying to
loosen a recalcitrant nut in a difficult place. Got so angry, I
walked straight to the nearest real tool merchant, slammed the damn
thing down on the counter, and said "I want something that doesn't do
that". He sold me a German (West German, back then) shaft made by
Stahlwille, and explained that if I ever (no time limit) managed to
damage it, I could take it to any Stahlwille retailer, anywhere, with
no receipt, and I'd get it replaced, absolutely no questions asked.

Yeah, well, that's what SEARZ said, too. Fat luck that brought me.
A warranty is good only as long as it isn't needed. I think I'd
be willing to trust the German toolmaker more. Sad, isn't it?


I still have it, of course. Good as new, 20 years later. :-)

As tools _should_ be.

--
Lord, Thou hast made this world below the shadow of a dream,
An', taught by time, I tak' it so - exceptin' always Steam.
from "McAndrews Hymn" by Rudyard Kipling
-http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development-

I still have it, of course. Good as new, 20 years later. :-)

As tools _should_ be.

I'm about to have the same problem. All my hand tools got ripped and
have the check from the ins. co. I've been slowly collecting old tools
at the swap meet. Got to get back to that free surface grinder. Its
been so bad that I had to beg for tools so I didn't have to use
channel locks on my lathe. I'll probably go through MSC for the
general ones and Snap-on for the type of work that can't break at the
far off job. Chrome is no big deal to me , it's getting enough so I do
have one when I look for it. Plus grinding all the correct ones right
again.

I can't remember ever buying a craftsman tool , but have destroyed a
number of them. I looked for one once while exchanging little stuff
and they didn't even have that size...

There have been many threads on this subject. I don't know of anything
between cm and what you would get from a tool truck , yet.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:41:04 +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

Do you get the Japanese brand "Kamasa" in the US?

Some of the better sockets I've bought, and definitely the best
bargain, was a set of Kamasa "Texans" (around 1980).

Snap-on made, badge engineered by Kamasa.



Just for my vote on what to buy, the best are Facom or Snap-on, in
that order.

"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message ...
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:47:27 -0400, "Garrett Fulton"
calmly ranted:

"AL" wrote in message
newsFQ1d.437687$%_6.102829@attbi_s01...
Heh heh. I completely agree.

Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

On the aircraft at work, I've got all MAC or Snap-On. Their box end
wrenches have the thin walls that you have to have in tight places. At
home, (or hobby stuff, I guess it could also be called), got a lot of
Craftsman wreches that come up on sale. In my opinion, they're fine for
this application. What's the problem?

I started my professional career as an auto mechanic in 1974.
By late in the decade, Craftsman had started turning into
Crapsman. In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.
I then started buying MAC, Snap-On, Cornwall, and even HF tools.
Cheap Chiwanese junk was better than Crapsman at the time. I
literally lost a pound of flesh to those damned tools. Add a
gallon of blood to the ticket and it was a costly mistake for
me to have continued using the damned things as long as I did.
Oh, I didn't mention that the counter people gave me crap about
some of the tools, too. I had to escalate to Tool or Store
managers about 1/4 of the time. Several of them tried to give me
non-Crapsman tools in trade, so when they broke (as they always
did) I wouldn't be able to ask for a replacement. Feh!

Anyway, I vowed "Never Again!".

But...
Just 2 weeks ago my old 1/4" spinner handle split in half. It
was in an early Craftsman 1/4" drive set. I grudgingly went to
the local Searz counter and asked for a replacement. "OK, but we
don't stock them. We'll call it in and they will mail the
replacement to you." I agreed and left.

The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Dan

In article ,
(Dan Thomas) wrote:

[...]

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Dan

I have a very good craftsman 1/2" ratchet with a LONG handle. I've
busted loose countless head bolts and loads of track bolts without any
failure. I used it with one of those oil filter strap wrenches and
applied enough torque to rip the strap on one occasion, and twist apart
an extension (not mine!) on another occasion. I took it apart a while
back to look at the ratchet teeth--doing just fine. Even if it was used
as a hammer a couple of times. It is only a couple of years old, though.
The only craftsman tool I've been disappointed with so far was a
screwdriver that really didn't appreciate being used as a pry bar, but I
was able to exchange it for one that was quite happy in that role!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net

I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Don't get me wrong. I love this country but consider US made quality to be
a sad joke.

"AL" wrote in message news:OP92d.52742$MQ5.34877@attbi_s52...
I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

FWIW, in the late '80s early '90s we had a large framing crew which
built apartment houses. The guys liked the 23 oz Craftsman
"California Framers" with the milled faces. When the faces became
dull they would break the handle off and go to Sears and get a new
hammer. It was interesting to see how the hammers were re-engineered
several times to increase handle strength. After several years the
boys had to use a 4' pipe to break the handles. I wonder if anybody
ever figured out why the milled face hammer handles were breaking and
the smooth face hammer handles weren't.
Paul

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 05:49:34 GMT, "AL" calmly ranted:

I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Around the time of the quality problems, I saw lots of sockets
in the Searz stores with INDIA cast into them. I thought the
Craftsman stuff was all US-made and the crap Chi/Tai/Indian
imports. Some were Japanese? Japanese tools imported here were
real crap in the 60's but back to high quality in the 80's.

--
Lord, Thou hast made this world below the shadow of a dream,
An', taught by time, I tak' it so - exceptin' always Steam.
from "McAndrews Hymn" by Rudyard Kipling
-http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development-

"AL" wrote in message
news:OV92d.201277$Fg5.142932@attbi_s53...
Don't get me wrong. I love this country but consider US made quality to
be
a sad joke.

"AL" wrote in message
news:OP92d.52742$MQ5.34877@attbi_s52...
I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made
with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.



This past winter I drove through rain, sleet, snow and ice for 1900 miles to
trade a Shoptask 3 in 1 for a Clausing lathe. Worth every bit of the
aggravation, as comparing the quality of the Shoptask and the Clausing is
like comparing chicken**** and chickenfeed. I know they're not made
anymore, but that old Clausing lathe is sure enough a quality machine. I
work on Boeing and airbus every day. 36 yrs. now. An airbus is a cheap
imitation of an aircraft compared to a Boeing, in my opinion. We still make
some good stuff in this country.

Garrett Fulton




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"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message
...
"AL" wrote
Don't get me wrong. I love this country but consider US made quality to
be a sad joke.

I work on Boeing and airbus every day. 36 yrs. now. An airbus is a cheap
imitation of an aircraft compared to a Boeing, in my opinion. We still
make
some good stuff in this country.

Gee, I really like the way the airbuses flop and wiggle through the air.
It's kind of fun to look back and watch the aisle wave left to right about 6
inches.

Not.

Pete

Rick,
If you can get Snap-On at a discount then go for it otherwise it is over
priced and really not worth it.
Depending on what you are doing anything else from Craftsman
professional on up will do.
Michelle ( got all of my Snap-On at an educational discount)

Rick Cook wrote:

I'm looking to replace at least part of my heterogenous collection of
wrenches, sockets and other mechanic's tools with something better. I'm
willing to spend the money to do it right, but I'm not sure what 'right'
is.

Back in the 1960s Snap-On was a highly regarded brand of professional
tools. But things change and I don't know about now.

What would you folks recommend as a brand of high-quality tools?

--RC






--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

"Pete Bergstrom" wrote in message
...
"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message
...
"AL" wrote
Don't get me wrong. I love this country but consider US made quality
to
be a sad joke.

I work on Boeing and airbus every day. 36 yrs. now. An airbus is a
cheap
imitation of an aircraft compared to a Boeing, in my opinion. We still
make
some good stuff in this country.

Gee, I really like the way the airbuses flop and wiggle through the air.
It's kind of fun to look back and watch the aisle wave left to right about
6
inches.

Not.

Pete



It was so bad on the 747-400's that Boeing installed the MSAS system. Modal
Stability Augmentation System. There is a little aerodynamic vane on the
nose below the radome and on the centerline of the aircraft. It and some
rate gyros sense when the fuselage is about to flex excessively in the
longitudinal axis. MSAS sends a signal to the rudder servo to kick to tail
back over just a tad and counteract the flexing. Works good and lasts a
long time. You never know it's working. God, I love Boeings. They're so
clever, those people.

Garrett Fulton




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I don't know about the sockets, but back in the late 80's Sears Canada had
beautiful red handled pliers with "Craftsman", and "Made in Japan" on them.
Beautiful finish, close tolerances, no slop in the pivot, jaws that lined
up. I sure wish I had bought some, but I couldn't afford them. Compare
that to the US-made black handled crap that you get at Sears now.

Around the time of the quality problems, I saw lots of sockets
in the Searz stores with INDIA cast into them. I thought the
Craftsman stuff was all US-made and the crap Chi/Tai/Indian
imports. Some were Japanese? Japanese tools imported here were
real crap in the 60's but back to high quality in the 80's.

Larry Jaques wrote:

snipped

But...
Just 2 weeks ago my old 1/4" spinner handle split in half. It
was in an early Craftsman 1/4" drive set. I grudgingly went to
the local Searz counter and asked for a replacement. "OK, but we
don't stock them. We'll call it in and they will mail the
replacement to you." I agreed and left.

The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I've had one of those for over 40 years now, and you're right, that 1/4"
female socket at the top end is very handy when I have to give something
a little more torque than my aging wrists can take.

My Craftman tools date back to the early 60s, and that's pretty much the
only brand I bought back then because I was living a few blocks from the
multistory "Sears Building" near Fenway Park in Boston which housed
their regional offices. At the time they had a "bargain basement" store
there. (Yep, it was really the basement.)

I haunted that place with the same fervor that my then SWMBO frequented
Filene's basement (Another Beantown landmark.) and I got most of my
Craftsman mechanic's tools there little by little. With the exception of
of a few which "grew legs" and left 'cause my teen aged sons took them
to friends' houses and couldn't remember where they left them, those
good old US made Craftsman tools are all still with me. Also with me is
the US made Craftsman floor style drill press I remember buying there
for (IIRC) around $30.



I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

I find concluding letters of that sort to Corporate goodfaddles with the
line "There is no right way to do the wrong thing." produces positive
results more often than not.

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

Nothing is forever...


************************************************** ************

While on the subject of sockets, is the "international standard" for
drive sizes still the english 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" etc., or have they
started manufacturing metric sockets with metric sized drives and (G-d
forbid) maybe even inch size sockets with metric sized drives?

Just wondering...

Jeff

--
My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message....

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:02:39 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
calmly ranted:

Larry Jaques wrote:
snipped
The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I've had one of those for over 40 years now, and you're right, that 1/4"
female socket at the top end is very handy when I have to give something
a little more torque than my aging wrists can take.

My hands are still strong, but -my- wrists are losing ground, too.



My Craftman tools date back to the early 60s, and that's pretty much the
only brand I bought back then because I was living a few blocks from the
multistory "Sears Building" near Fenway Park in Boston which housed
their regional offices. At the time they had a "bargain basement" store
there. (Yep, it was really the basement.)

I haunted that place with the same fervor that my then SWMBO frequented
Filene's basement (Another Beantown landmark.) and I got most of my
Craftsman mechanic's tools there little by little. With the exception of
of a few which "grew legs" and left 'cause my teen aged sons took them
to friends' houses and couldn't remember where they left them, those
good old US made Craftsman tools are all still with me. Also with me is
the US made Craftsman floor style drill press I remember buying there
for (IIRC) around $30.

They had good tools up until the mid-70's, when some brilliant
idiot in Corporate apparently decided to "save them some money."
Then came the automotive department boondoggle and Searz now looks
nothing like the entity it started out. Absolutely nothing.


I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

I find concluding letters of that sort to Corporate goodfaddles with the
line "There is no right way to do the wrong thing." produces positive
results more often than not.

Excellent idea. I'll remember to add that to my next letter. sigh
Wouldn't it be nice to never again need to write those letters?


Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

Nothing is forever...

I don't foresee the need to go back to them again. They lost
my trust and, as I said, took a gallon of blood and pound of
flesh from me, and then gave me **** about replacements. I
surely won't soon forget that.

-
- Let Exxon send their own troops -
-------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Programming

I hear ya, same reason I can't throw my money away on a domestic vehicle
either.




"AL" wrote in message
news:OV92d.201277$Fg5.142932@attbi_s53...
Don't get me wrong. I love this country but consider US made quality to
be
a sad joke.

"AL" wrote in message
news:OP92d.52742$MQ5.34877@attbi_s52...
I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made
with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Larry Jaques wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 05:49:34 GMT, "AL" calmly ranted:

I remember in the late 80's when Craftsman in Canada was quality made with
pride in Japan, while Crapsman in the US was US made. I sure wish I had
bought some, but I was a poor college student.

I understand that the Craftsman stuff sold here in Canada is Chinese
stuff, while in the US it's American-made. I can't find any decent
Craftsman stuff in any Sears store here, but friends visiting the
States have brought back Craftsman that's obviously much better
quality.

Around the time of the quality problems, I saw lots of sockets
in the Searz stores with INDIA cast into them. I thought the
Craftsman stuff was all US-made and the crap Chi/Tai/Indian
imports. Some were Japanese? Japanese tools imported here were
real crap in the 60's but back to high quality in the 80's.

In the '70s I sold heavy truck wheels and brakes. There were two
major US manufacturers of big brake drums, one really expensive (iron
centrifugally cast into a steel shell) and the other reasonable
(straight cast iron). The reasonable outfit had a strike that lasted a
long time, and the other outfit couldn't keep up, so somebody had a
foundry in India make some cast-iron drums.
They came packaged two to a crate, the crate made of teak, and
wrapped in plastic inside and protected with dessicant bags (the
American drums came complete with rust, from being stored outside the
factory, in the rain). The truckers kept coming back for more of those
Indian drums, since they were really hard and lasted a long time,
about twice as long as the American drums. I read once somewhere that
the Indians and Chinese were masters of iron casting long before the
Europeans, and they had a white cast (as opposed to our gray cast)that
was super hard.
Another American outfit started making drums during that strike,
and by the time I left the business thay had a huge chunk of the
market. Plain gray cast iron, and the truckers were disappointed. Just
like us tool buyers, lamenting the lost quality of yesterday's
manufacturing.

Dan

I too have found that Sears can be a REAL PAIN on backing their
warranties.

I suggest you remind the folks at Sears of the phase "Satisfaction
Guaranteed or Your Money Back".

Then remind them that you can and will find the time to go to small
claims court if the foot dragging continues.

If turns out like my situation, you will get your money back faster
than you think possible.

Let us know how it turns out.

TMT





Larry Jaques wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:47:27 -0400, "Garrett Fulton"
calmly ranted:

"AL" wrote in message
newsFQ1d.437687$%_6.102829@attbi_s01...
Heh heh. I completely agree.

Nor have I, but the answer hasn't changed: ABC

Anything But Crapsman.

On the aircraft at work, I've got all MAC or Snap-On. Their box end
wrenches have the thin walls that you have to have in tight places. At
home, (or hobby stuff, I guess it could also be called), got a lot of
Craftsman wreches that come up on sale. In my opinion, they're fine for
this application. What's the problem?

I started my professional career as an auto mechanic in 1974.
By late in the decade, Craftsman had started turning into
Crapsman. In the early 80's, nearly every tool I bought from
Crapsman was faulty and I ended up at the Searz tool counter
DAILY, with bandaged hands, with one broken tool or another.
I then started buying MAC, Snap-On, Cornwall, and even HF tools.
Cheap Chiwanese junk was better than Crapsman at the time. I
literally lost a pound of flesh to those damned tools. Add a
gallon of blood to the ticket and it was a costly mistake for
me to have continued using the damned things as long as I did.
Oh, I didn't mention that the counter people gave me crap about
some of the tools, too. I had to escalate to Tool or Store
managers about 1/4 of the time. Several of them tried to give me
non-Crapsman tools in trade, so when they broke (as they always
did) I wouldn't be able to ask for a replacement. Feh!

Anyway, I vowed "Never Again!".

But...
Just 2 weeks ago my old 1/4" spinner handle split in half. It
was in an early Craftsman 1/4" drive set. I grudgingly went to
the local Searz counter and asked for a replacement. "OK, but we
don't stock them. We'll call it in and they will mail the
replacement to you." I agreed and left.

The next week brought a package to my door. When I opened it, I
found a nice little Crapsman 1/4" drive ratchet, not a 1/4" drive
screwdriver handle with a 1/4" female socket in the end, the main
feature which made it an indispensable tool to me.

I called down to the local Searz store and told the girl the problem.
She asked me to bring it in, so I did. Well, Searz doesn't make this
particular handle any more. I asked for a refund of the ratchet's
cost so I could purchase what I needed at competitor's store since
several other companies still make them. They wouldn't go for that.
So now I'm awaiting a response from Searz Corporate.

Is it any -wonder- I don't like Searz or Crapsman tools any more?

----
- Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it? -
http://diversify.com Web Applications

In article ,
(Too_Many_Tools) wrote:

I too have found that Sears can be a REAL PAIN on backing their
warranties.

I suggest you remind the folks at Sears of the phase "Satisfaction
Guaranteed or Your Money Back".

Then remind them that you can and will find the time to go to small
claims court if the foot dragging continues.

If turns out like my situation, you will get your money back faster
than you think possible.

Let us know how it turns out.

TMT

Hmmm... I've taken back piles of busted/bent/worn out Craftsman stuff
almost every month since the late 70's... and rarely have gotten guff
from them.

They have different warranties for different things, but usually the
unlimited hand tool warranty (the only one I'm ever personally involved
with by the way) is a non issue.

I usually deal with the Santa Monica CA store, but have dealt with many
other stores in the greater LA area as well.

Can't speak for other areas around the country though... just curious,
what sort of things have you had trouble exchanging... and where?

Erik

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:01:41 GMT, Erik calmly
ranted:

Hmmm... I've taken back piles of busted/bent/worn out Craftsman stuff
almost every month since the late 70's... and rarely have gotten guff
from them.

They have different warranties for different things, but usually the
unlimited hand tool warranty (the only one I'm ever personally involved
with by the way) is a non issue.

I usually deal with the Santa Monica CA store, but have dealt with many
other stores in the greater LA area as well.

Can't speak for other areas around the country though... just curious,
what sort of things have you had trouble exchanging... and where?

My main return center was the Carlsbad, CA store at the El Camino
Real Mall. I had to go as high as the store manager too often, but
once I had, the mention of his name usually smoothed things out.

---
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