I've got to replace the leather drive belt on my old South Bend lathe. I
want to use a skived glue joint for the splice, but am not sure what type of
glue to use. Any suggestions?

In article FG0Yc.8260$tI.7906@trndny04,
"William R. Hopcraft" wrote:

I've got to replace the leather drive belt on my old South Bend lathe. I
want to use a skived glue joint for the splice, but am not sure what type of
glue to use. Any suggestions?

Speaking as a part-time leatherworker...

Waxed cotton thread. Seriously. A glued joint is likely to be too
brittle to hold for long - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it exploded
the first time the joint crosses a radius smaller than about twice the
length of the lapped section.

Avoid synthetics, as they'll tend to be "slippy", particularly if they
manage to stop on a small pulley. And as an added bonus, if that pulley
happens to be the drive, you'll be re-stitching your splice in no time
'cause of the thread melting and letting go. Stick with waxed cotton.

Skive it down to a good long taper (at least 2-3 times the width of the
belt long) on each end on both sides of the joint - one side skived on
the "inside", the other on the "outside" surface - lay 'em up as a lap
joint, and put in at least two, more if you've got the width for it,
lines of stitching that run parallel to the edges, and at least the full
length of the spliced zone plus a couple inches on either end. "Sink"
each stitch (Try to pull it below the belt's surface, and/or stitch into
a shallow groove you've pre-cut on the inside of the loop) and when
you're done, if you've got the room to get the loop open far enough (or
turn it "inside out"), open it up, inside facing you, lay it across your
anvil (I presume you've got one... if not find/use a similar surface) on
top of a *wrung almost dry* piece of cloth, and use a fairly light
rawhide, wood, or plastic mallet to pound the bejeebers out of it. Not
so hard you thin out or split the leather, but hard enough to "seat" the
lap against itself.

*SLIGHTLY* loose stitiching is a good thing in this case, as it will
give the lap a bit more flexibility to pass the pulleys without
"thumping" - A super-tight stitch will produce a lap with less ability
to conform to the shape of the pulley, so instead of travelling smoothly
around, it will tend to either "stick" or "slip", depending on how rigid
it ends up being. Both cases will give you a "thump" and/or erratic
"grab-slip" misbehavior as the joint crosses a pulley.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

The best stuff is a contact adhesive called Barge Cement.

This is the stuff shoemakers use to glue new soles on and it is seriously
tough stuff.

I've tried some other brands of contact adhesives with less than stellar
results.
(not to say that some brand isn't as good, just that the ones I used
weren't.)

In a pinch, I used some Gorilla Glue. It is a foaming polyurethane glue sold
to woodworkers.
I wiped a very, very thin layer on both sides of the skive and clamped the
joint over night.

That was a couple years ago, and there is no sign of failing.

Paul K. Dickman

William R. Hopcraft wrote in message ...
I've got to replace the leather drive belt on my old South Bend lathe. I
want to use a skived glue joint for the splice, but am not sure what type
of
glue to use. Any suggestions?

In article , Don Bruder says...

Waxed cotton thread. Seriously. A glued joint is likely to be too
brittle to hold for long - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it exploded
the first time the joint crosses a radius smaller than about twice the
length of the lapped section.

This is news to the belt manufacturers - how do you think they
get belting in lengths bigger than one cow unit long? They
glue the skived joints.

Leather belt cement used to be sold by McMaster Carr, and that's
what I've always used on my SB machines. The barge cement is
supposedly also available at shoemaker's stores and is reported
to perform fine.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
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"William R. Hopcraft" wrote in message news:FG0Yc.8260$tI.7906@trndny04...
I've got to replace the leather drive belt on my old South Bend lathe. I
want to use a skived glue joint for the splice, but am not sure what type of
glue to use. Any suggestions?

William:

I was in the same situation, and finally opted to buy a new,
reasonably-priced belt with a metal splice (textile composite belt,
pin-and-loop splice) from Kyle McGowan. His website is at
http://home.earthlink.net/~ninenines/index.html. Email at the address
given on the website for a quote.

Shipping time was a bit long, but the belt has done a fine job on my
SB 14".

Best regards -- terry

Jim has the same question as I -- if skived and glued is not good, why has
it been used for so long? On the other hand, Don's stitching instructions
were quite clear but seem to be bit of trouble if there is another way.

Bob Swinney
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Bruder says...

Waxed cotton thread. Seriously. A glued joint is likely to be too
brittle to hold for long - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it exploded
the first time the joint crosses a radius smaller than about twice the
length of the lapped section.

This is news to the belt manufacturers - how do you think they
get belting in lengths bigger than one cow unit long? They
glue the skived joints.

Leather belt cement used to be sold by McMaster Carr, and that's
what I've always used on my SB machines. The barge cement is
supposedly also available at shoemaker's stores and is reported
to perform fine.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
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==================================================

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:31:06 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
calmly ranted:

Jim has the same question as I -- if skived and glued is not good, why has
it been used for so long? On the other hand, Don's stitching instructions
were quite clear but seem to be bit of trouble if there is another way.

Why use a chipped piece of flat rock when knives are available?
Do you make you own soap, detergent, toothpaste, etc?

One problem with hide glue is temperature. It's intolerant.

Shoe Goo, E6000, etc. are all great sticky stuffs.

--
"I'm sick and tired of having to rearrange my life
because of what the STUPIDEST people *might* do or
how they *might* react."
-- Bill Maher

What I have always wonderd is, if they make glue from horses how do
they tell ahead of time which are the sticky ones?

Errol Groff

I kinda thought animal product to animal product---Hide Glue??--ya know, the
stuff
they make by boiling hides,hoofs,horns,etc...

"William R. Hopcraft" wrote:

I've got to replace the leather drive belt on my old South Bend lathe. I
want to use a skived glue joint for the splice, but am not sure what type of
glue to use. Any suggestions?

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:16:53 GMT, Errol Groff
wrote:


What I have always wonderd is, if they make glue from horses how do
they tell ahead of time which are the sticky ones?

Errol Groff

Thanks Errol....

Gunner, wiping potato chips and Mt. Dew off his monitor....



It's not unwise to remember that Mother Nature is essentially a
murderous, sneakly, promiscuous bitch who has been trying to kill you
since your conception.

Eventually she will succeed, perhaps with the help of your fellow man.

Life consists in putting off the inevitable as long as possible and
taking what good and joy you can before her success.

Whether you attribute that situation to evolutionary forces, a fallen
nature after Adam and Eve screwed the pooch, or whatever, it's no less true.

Be friendly, pleasant, unaggressive, and honest toward all and be
prepared to ignore, avoid, or even kill anyone who is otherwise toward
you. Being ready doesn't mean eager, just ready. What true friends are
found in life will undestand and accept that fundamental rule of human
interaction." John Husvar

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:31:06 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
calmly ranted:

Jim has the same question as I -- if skived and glued is not good, why
has
it been used for so long? On the other hand, Don's stitching
instructions
were quite clear but seem to be bit of trouble if there is another way.

Why use a chipped piece of flat rock when knives are available?
Do you make you own soap, detergent, toothpaste, etc?

One problem with hide glue is temperature. It's intolerant.

Shoe Goo, E6000, etc. are all great sticky stuffs.

--
The kids in South America seem to like "Resistol" by H.B. Fuller.
Unfortunately, they liked it a little too much so the company had to stop
manufacturing it.

LOL---'cow unit long' Remember to specify metric (French, German, etc.
cows), standard (American cows) or whitworth (British cows)
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Bruder says...

Waxed cotton thread. Seriously. A glued joint is likely to be too
brittle to hold for long - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it exploded
the first time the joint crosses a radius smaller than about twice the
length of the lapped section.

This is news to the belt manufacturers - how do you think they
get belting in lengths bigger than one cow unit long? They
glue the skived joints.

Leather belt cement used to be sold by McMaster Carr, and that's
what I've always used on my SB machines. The barge cement is
supposedly also available at shoemaker's stores and is reported
to perform fine.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article ,
NokNokMan wrote:
LOL---'cow unit long' Remember to specify metric (French, German, etc.
cows), standard (American cows) or whitworth (British cows)

I think that it might depend on the pattern of cutting. I could
picture a spiral which could be pretty long (though it might vary in
toughness as it passes under the belly side) until you get to the milk
production factory, at least.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Errol Groff wrote:

What I have always wonderd is, if they make glue from horses how do
they tell ahead of time which are the sticky ones?

Errol Groff
Those eating rubber plants naturally !

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Naw! The real sticky one are those that *don't* throw their riders in the
rodeo bucking bronc event. Those are the first to go.
Bob Swinney
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
m...
Errol Groff wrote:

What I have always wonderd is, if they make glue from horses how do
they tell ahead of time which are the sticky ones?

Errol Groff
Those eating rubber plants naturally !

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Oooops! Strike *don't* below.

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Naw! The real sticky one are those that *don't* throw their riders in the
rodeo bucking bronc event. Those are the first to go.
Bob Swinney
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
m...
Errol Groff wrote:

What I have always wonderd is, if they make glue from horses how do
they tell ahead of time which are the sticky ones?

Errol Groff
Those eating rubber plants naturally !

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

In article , DoN. Nichols says...

I think that it might depend on the pattern of cutting. I could
picture a spiral which could be pretty long ...

Right, but then you have to configure the lathe so the belt
still runs in a cow-shaped spiral during use!

Jim


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please reply to:
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==================================================

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:49:24 -0400, DoN. Nichols wrote:

In article ,
NokNokMan wrote:
LOL---'cow unit long' Remember to specify metric (French, German, etc.
cows), standard (American cows) or whitworth (British cows)

I think that it might depend on the pattern of cutting. I could
picture a spiral which could be pretty long (though it might vary in
toughness as it passes under the belly side) until you get to the milk
production factory, at least.

I wonder, do they have a special lathe to skin a cow in that fashion?

I have some Barge Cement and am looking for a thinner that I can use
in it. The stuff is old andI don't want to throw it out. Id rather
thin it and keep on using it

Anyone know what to use ?

On 28 Aug 2004 15:40:11 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Don Bruder says...

Waxed cotton thread. Seriously. A glued joint is likely to be too
brittle to hold for long - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it exploded
the first time the joint crosses a radius smaller than about twice the
length of the lapped section.

This is news to the belt manufacturers - how do you think they
get belting in lengths bigger than one cow unit long? They
glue the skived joints.

Leather belt cement used to be sold by McMaster Carr, and that's
what I've always used on my SB machines. The barge cement is
supposedly also available at shoemaker's stores and is reported
to perform fine.

Jim

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:55:17 -0700, "Jerry J. Wass"
wrote:

I kinda thought animal product to animal product---Hide Glue??--ya know, the
stuff they make by boiling hides,hoofs,horns,etc...

Hide glue is rigid and won't last any time on a belt. Rabbit skin
glue is flexible, so much more likely to last - especially with maybe
10% glycerine added.

But I'd use a modern glue, like Evo-Stik 528.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:55:17 -0700, "Jerry J. Wass"
wrote:

I kinda thought animal product to animal product---Hide Glue??--ya know, the
stuff they make by boiling hides,hoofs,horns,etc...

I've just checked in Spon. Their recipe uses equal parts of hide glue
and isinglass (a common period additive for making mixtures flexible).
They're mixed cold and wet, before heating. Once hot, tannic acid is
added until the mixture turns "ropey, like egg white".

--
Smert' spamionam