Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Back in the mid 90s atleast partly with help from this group I made my first
"punch" and "die." I needed to install some photo beams at a port of entry
for a pedestrian counter. I designed the "system" using a variety of parts
and components, but I was concerned about the photo beams themselves. They
had something like a 5 year warranty, but the lenses were polycarbonate.
Each set of beams had to be placed in a walkway between counters. My
concern was that people brushing by would quickly wear the lens as clothing
bags, and misc items brushed against the sides of the walkway. I didn't
want to be that guy who everybody there got to know because I was always
there fixing it. I had the idea to recess the emitter and sensor so that
only the most aggressive brushing up against might contact the surfaces. I
looked all over, but nobody made a recessed electrical plate that I thought
would work. I took a piece of hot rolled (didn't even know what it was
called at the time) and cut one pieces with a rectangular hole in it to mate
with the back of an aluminum electrical blank plate. I chamfered the edges
by hand with a grinder so it was a decent fit. Then I cut a small piece to
mate with it about plate thickness smaller all the way around and hand
chamfered it as well. Then I just mashed a cover plate between them with my
hydraulic press. (had it for automotive work, not machine work) It looked
amazingly good. I doubt the guys at GSA ever noticed that was a custom
piece.

As a new (mostly black box) system it had its development issues, but lens
wear of the emitter and sensor was not one of them. It was in use for years
until they went to a new system with some big contractor at all the ports.

That was definitely metal working. I doubt it was really machining though
except in the crudest sense. I take that sort of approach to a lot of what
I do. I don't have a stick up my butt about being a "machinist" "welder"
"fabricator" "mechanic". In fact my knowledge is lacking really in all of
those areas even though now I make my living as a niche market mold maker.
I can weld. If its important to look pretty I do some practice welds and
then do the real weld after I've taken a break and I am fresh. If it just
has to stick I burn it together and clean it up with a grinder. I know less
about welding than almost anybody else in this group, but oddly enough I
have five electric welders and an OA rig and I have welded parts still in
use today with all but one of them. (Just got a new AC/DC pulse TIG a
couple days ago.) Fabricator is a tough term to define, but I've built and
converted trailers a welding table wood storage rack and various other
things to fit needs.A lot of welding there, but various other fabrication
skills as well. Still I don't consider myself a fabricator. I do have
people bring me things to make or fix, but I turn down a lot of it unless
they are friends and they stay to help. What about a machinist... No. Just
ask any old manual machinist. I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree,
wannabe by the very fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3
lifetimes in a steam powered line shop. LOL.

Since I'm no longer a contractor (retired and sold out) what does that make
me? There is a lot I don't know, but very few projects am I afraid to try
to come up with a solution. Atleast for myself. I won't always take on
projects for others. If I don't know I learn how. If I can't figure it out
myself I ask questions. If I don't have the recommended tools I think about
it and see if I can find alternatives. If I still have to have the tools I
put them on the list and when I have money I buy them.

The term "Maker" always bothered me. It didn't sound quite right, but
ultimately I think that's what I am. A maker. I find ways to make what I
need and I don't worry to much about being true to any particular trade. If
it works it works.

I'm a long time member of this group of course. Saddens me to see that
signal to nose ration what it is today. I'm a member of various other
groups. Some very specialized around a particular piece of equipment like
the Yahoo mailing list for the mini lathe and others more broad like Home
Shop Machinist, so when I started my own group (on Facebook) what did I call
it? Makers & Builders. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MakersBuilders/
Visit or don't. I'm good either way.


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?


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On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual
machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a
steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with
overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in
the shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't
a real machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal
over an anvil first.


A 200 HP electric motor ran the line shafts. Does it count that some
of the electricity was low head hydro?

I didn't have a proper anvil until I was a teen; it was on a shelf in
a friend's garage and had my name plainly stamped on the side,
WILKIN(son), the last 3 missing over a depression. They were a family
of lawyers who had no use for such tools.

Before that I had to pound metal on rocks and stumps and chunks of
discarded scrap iron my grandfather and uncle had brought home from
that factory. Stumps work surprisingly well and leave a smooth finish.
Rocks, not so good.


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On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

--
cheers,

John B.



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"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual
machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a
steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with
overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in
the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a
real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over
an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master"
was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil.
About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

--
cheers,

John B.


My apprenticeship was at a small company that built custom production
test equipment for the auto industry. I had to learn manual and
machine metalworking and industrial electrician practices but already
knew drafting from school and quite a bit of analog and digital
electronics from the Army.

I've never seen a good title for the skills necessary to specify,
design, construct and test custom electrical + mechanical equipment.
"Engineer" tends to imply a designer with clean fingernails who passes
the hands-on work to technicians. Maybe that multitasking is only for
small companies like Segway where titles and job descriptions don't
matter, the shop was open for anyone to experimentally machine or
modify the parts they'd designed. Sometimes I had to wait until
midnight for CNC machine time.



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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.
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On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:45:31 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.


Did you get any photos of him with 999, Gerry? That's quite a piece of
racing history.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:28:36 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:27:50 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:



The decline of this group is probably due to the majority of users

aging
out. The noise is due to another reason...



The "decline" of this group is the result of a 18-year-long
infestation of cross-posting cretins, mostly from the "survivalist"
groups, initiated around 2001 by Gunner, which has taken on a life

of
its own and driven many active members away.



--
Ed ****dress


I suppose your trolling for gay sex with minors in the survivalist
groups while prancing around in your daddy's **** dress has nothing
to do with it? Eh , you stank nasty **** in a dress?
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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 11:13:59 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:28:36 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:27:50 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:



The decline of this group is probably due to the majority of users

aging
out. The noise is due to another reason...



The "decline" of this group is the result of a 18-year-long
infestation of cross-posting cretins, mostly from the "survivalist"
groups, initiated around 2001 by Gunner, which has taken on a life

of
its own and driven many active members away.



--
Ed ****dress


I suppose your trolling for gay sex with minors in the survivalist
groups while prancing around in your daddy's **** dress has nothing
to do with it? Eh , you stank nasty **** in a dress?


See what I mean, John? "Red Prepper" is one of the most disgusting of
the "survivalist" cretins -- a sex pervert who projects stories about
some vaginal odor trauma that he probably experienced early in life.
He's one of the sickest ones, but if you want to see a cesspool of
paranoid xenophobes, chronic liars, and a couple of anarchists and
white supremacists, stop into misc.survivalism or alt.survival
sometime.

They started showing up here almost two decades ago, tagging along
with Gunner's cross-posts. Several of the most active members in RCM
just turned away from all the garbage that was being thrown on our
lawn and left for good.

That's what happened. The same thing happened to alt.machines.cnc,
which has completely dried up and blown away. Nobody talks to Red
Pecker here anymore, but he keeps trying to stir something up. Those
who are left have either killfiled him or just ignore him.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 17:13:06 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
See what I mean, John?


See what I mean John? See what I mean?

Guess what **** in a dress? Even John doesn't believe you. John isn't
so stupid that he can't Google your troll posts in the survival
groups.

Hell, I've thrown you back over the fence so many times that John
doesn't even have to leave the group to know that you are a first
class troll who trolls for minors to have gay sex with.

Isn't that true **** in a Dress? Of course it is. Google is your
friend John. ****dress wants to **** your minor sonin the ass.

Stay out of the survivalist groups **** in a dress troll. The people
there are protective of their children and know how to take care of
creeps like you. You do realize that you were voted to be the first
to catch a bullet between the eyes if ever SHTF?
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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 00:39:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:45:31 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.


Did you get any photos of him with 999, Gerry? That's quite a piece of
racing history.

Unfortunately not, and the only photo of his Cadillac with the Ford
motor after the original was burned, was stolen from my uncle when he
took it to school (U of T) for "show & tell". However my son still has
the dinning room table where my Grandmother found him refinishing the
damaged body when she returned from visiting her sister in Canada.
He did have some great stories from his experiences working with
automotive pioneers.
When I took my son to see the 999 several years ago, his first comment
was "Dad, it's made of WOOD!"
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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 23:17:09 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 00:39:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:45:31 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)
If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.


Did you get any photos of him with 999, Gerry? That's quite a piece of
racing history.

Unfortunately not, and the only photo of his Cadillac with the Ford
motor after the original was burned, was stolen from my uncle when he
took it to school (U of T) for "show & tell". However my son still has
the dinning room table where my Grandmother found him refinishing the
damaged body when she returned from visiting her sister in Canada.
He did have some great stories from his experiences working with
automotive pioneers.
When I took my son to see the 999 several years ago, his first comment
was "Dad, it's made of WOOD!"


It's good to have a family connection to something like that, for your
son to remember and appreciate. The people who drove those cars had
guts that are hard to believe. During one year of circle-track racing
in California in the early '20s, an average just under one driver per
race died in crashes.

--
Ed Huntress
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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
...
It's good to have a family connection to something like that, for
your
son to remember and appreciate. The people who drove those cars had
guts that are hard to believe. During one year of circle-track
racing
in California in the early '20s, an average just under one driver
per
race died in crashes.

--
Ed Huntress


That was little different from the chances an aviator of the time
willingly risked.


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On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:47:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
...
It's good to have a family connection to something like that, for
your
son to remember and appreciate. The people who drove those cars had
guts that are hard to believe. During one year of circle-track
racing
in California in the early '20s, an average just under one driver
per
race died in crashes.

--
Ed Huntress


That was little different from the chances an aviator of the time
willingly risked.


Right. And I sometimes wonder what the hell went through their heads.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:18:16 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:47:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..

[...]

That was little different from the chances an aviator of the time
willingly risked.


Right. And I sometimes wonder what the hell went through their heads.


That the odds were for those "other" guys. It wasn't going to happen to
them...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:39:45 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:18:16 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:47:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

[...]

That was little different from the chances an aviator of the time
willingly risked.


Right. And I sometimes wonder what the hell went through their heads.


That the odds were for those "other" guys. It wasn't going to happen to
them...


Yeah, some version of that. But there must have been more. Stirling
Moss, the great race car driver, said that the danger was a big part
of the atraction for him. He was drawn to it.

I don't get it. My personal risk/reward ratio doesn't include getting
off on risks for the sake of thrills.

That's why I don't go rock climbing. g

--
Ed Huntress
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"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:18:16 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:47:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

[...]

That was little different from the chances an aviator of the time
willingly risked.


Right. And I sometimes wonder what the hell went through their
heads.


That the odds were for those "other" guys. It wasn't going to happen
to
them...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI


Eddie Rickenbacker related in his memoir how "Mutiny on the Bounty"
author James Norman Hall liked to practice aerobatic maneuvers over
German antiaircraft batteries. In WW2 Saburo Sakai and two other aces
pulled the same stunt over Port Moresby in New Guinea.
http://planejunkie.com/the-tainan-ai...-port-moresby/


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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ...



I didn't have a proper anvil until I was a teen; it was on a shelf in
a friend's garage and had my name plainly stamped on the side,
WILKIN(son), the last 3 missing over a depression. They were a family
of lawyers who had no use for such tools.

Before that I had to pound metal on rocks and stumps and chunks of
discarded scrap iron my grandfather and uncle had brought home from
that factory. Stumps work surprisingly well and leave a smooth finish.
Rocks, not so good.

**************

I have pounded metal on the ground in the sand before. It was in fact
inspired by this group talking about using a leather covered sand bag to
beat sheet metal into shape. I had a badly dented motor cover interfering
with the operation of the cooling fan on a motor. I took a ball pein
hammer, walked out in the yard, and set the cover in the dirt, where I
proceeded to beat on it with the hammer. It looks hammered, but its roughly
back to a suitable shape and has been in use for a dozen years or so.


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"Gerry" wrote in message ...

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.

****

My maternal grandfather was a World War(S) era machinist. He was born well
before 1900. Exactly when I am not sure. Nobody seems to know. I have
several of his tools. My dad bought them or traded them from him many years
ago and pretty much never used most of it. A few years ago he gave me the
lot as a Christmas present. I'd have to say it was one of the very best
presents I have ever received. I do use some of the stuff from time to
time. Some has been really useful.



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On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 20:42:39 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 17:13:06 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
See what I mean, John?


See what I mean John? See what I mean?

Guess what **** in a dress? Even John doesn't believe you. John isn't
so stupid that he can't Google your troll posts in the survival
groups.

Hell, I've thrown you back over the fence so many times that John
doesn't even have to leave the group to know that you are a first
class troll who trolls for minors to have gay sex with.

Isn't that true **** in a Dress? Of course it is. Google is your
friend John. ****dress wants to **** your minor sonin the ass.

Stay out of the survivalist groups **** in a dress troll. The people
there are protective of their children and know how to take care of
creeps like you. You do realize that you were voted to be the first
to catch a bullet between the eyes if ever SHTF?


That should be a wrap, John. Now you see the kind of degenerate ****
that Gunner dragged in here years ago. Look at the Pecker's latest
half-dozen posts in here and you'll see the kind of sick and
disgusting crap that drove many people away. He's assumed for himself
the role of Ambassador for Survivalists, but he's far from the only
one from there who has emotional problems.

I don't know if you've tried the moderated groups, but there are a few
such that cover metalworking. My opinion is that you still get better
answers here, and the amount of experience per person probably runs
higher here, but there is that noise coming in from other NGs...

--
Ed Huntress
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On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 11:18:58 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:39:45 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

snip
That the odds were for those "other" guys. It wasn't going to happen to
them...


Yeah, some version of that. But there must have been more. Stirling
Moss, the great race car driver, said that the danger was a big part
of the atraction for him. He was drawn to it.

I don't get it. My personal risk/reward ratio doesn't include getting
off on risks for the sake of thrills.

That's why I don't go rock climbing. g


Stuff I would have done in an eye-blink during years past are a no-go
nowadays. What's changed? My calculated risk. Broken bones or any
serious injury now will be very expensive to fix and quite frankly may
just be all-she-wrote. Medical care/cost has gone bonkers. Plus I don't
have anyone watching my backside either. The will is still there but
the possible consequences has become too great, calculated risk is
just too high.

Stuff you feel comfortable with may look crazy to me and vice-versa. It
all depends on what you know you can do, could possibly go wrong and
the likely hood you can pull it off ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:54:22 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 11:18:58 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 10:39:45 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

snip
That the odds were for those "other" guys. It wasn't going to happen to
them...


Yeah, some version of that. But there must have been more. Stirling
Moss, the great race car driver, said that the danger was a big part
of the atraction for him. He was drawn to it.

I don't get it. My personal risk/reward ratio doesn't include getting
off on risks for the sake of thrills.

That's why I don't go rock climbing. g


Stuff I would have done in an eye-blink during years past are a no-go
nowadays. What's changed? My calculated risk. Broken bones or any
serious injury now will be very expensive to fix and quite frankly may
just be all-she-wrote. Medical care/cost has gone bonkers. Plus I don't
have anyone watching my backside either. The will is still there but
the possible consequences has become too great, calculated risk is
just too high.

Stuff you feel comfortable with may look crazy to me and vice-versa. It
all depends on what you know you can do, could possibly go wrong and
the likely hood you can pull it off ;-)


I agree with all of the above, but I would add an important question
that has arisen since the days I rode motorcycles in scrambles and
sports cars in road races.

The question is, "Why?" d8-)

--
Ed Huntress
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On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 17:04:08 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:54:22 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 11:18:58 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

[...]
snip

[...]
[...]

Stuff I would have done in an eye-blink during years past are a no-go
nowadays. What's changed? My calculated risk. Broken bones or any
serious injury now will be very expensive to fix and quite frankly may
just be all-she-wrote. Medical care/cost has gone bonkers. Plus I don't
have anyone watching my backside either. The will is still there but
the possible consequences has become too great, calculated risk is
just too high.

Stuff you feel comfortable with may look crazy to me and vice-versa. It
all depends on what you know you can do, could possibly go wrong and
the likely hood you can pull it off ;-)


I agree with all of the above, but I would add an important question
that has arisen since the days I rode motorcycles in scrambles and
sports cars in road races.

The question is, "Why?" d8-)


At this point in time we know what it's like (no longer a new
experience) to do some of this stuff or similar. AND we know how much
it can hurt, maim, cost us when things go terribly wrong ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:01:29 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 17:04:08 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:54:22 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 11:18:58 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

[...]
snip

[...]
[...]

Stuff I would have done in an eye-blink during years past are a no-go
nowadays. What's changed? My calculated risk. Broken bones or any
serious injury now will be very expensive to fix and quite frankly may
just be all-she-wrote. Medical care/cost has gone bonkers. Plus I don't
have anyone watching my backside either. The will is still there but
the possible consequences has become too great, calculated risk is
just too high.

Stuff you feel comfortable with may look crazy to me and vice-versa. It
all depends on what you know you can do, could possibly go wrong and
the likely hood you can pull it off ;-)


I agree with all of the above, but I would add an important question
that has arisen since the days I rode motorcycles in scrambles and
sports cars in road races.

The question is, "Why?" d8-)


At this point in time we know what it's like (no longer a new
experience) to do some of this stuff or similar. AND we know how much
it can hurt, maim, cost us when things go terribly wrong ;-)


I think that some of us are lucky we lived through the stage of being
immortal. Perceived immortality wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
d8-)



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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:01:29 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:


I think that some of us are lucky we lived through the stage of being
immortal. Perceived immortality wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
d8-)


Much of the "FUN" things I did in my misspent youth are now a felony.

Best Regards
Tom.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:14:59 -0700
"Howard Beel" wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:01:29 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:


I think that some of us are lucky we lived through the stage of being
immortal. Perceived immortality wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
d8-)


Much of the "FUN" things I did in my misspent youth are now a felony.


I'm sure less people, less deer and especially less traffic saved my
butt a few times too

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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"Howard Beel" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:01:29 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:


I think that some of us are lucky we lived through the stage of
being
immortal. Perceived immortality wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
d8-)


Much of the "FUN" things I did in my misspent youth are now a
felony.

Best Regards
Tom.


And how much has been decriminalized?


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On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 12:21:17 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 20:42:39 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:



On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 17:13:06 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
See what I mean, John?


See what I mean John? See what I mean?

Guess what **** in a dress? Even John doesn't believe you. John

isn't
so stupid that he can't Google your troll posts in the survival
groups.

Hell, I've thrown you back over the fence so many times that John
doesn't even have to leave the group to know that you are a first
class troll who trolls for minors to have gay sex with.

Isn't that true **** in a Dress? Of course it is. Google is your
friend John. ****dress wants to **** your minor sonin the ass.

Stay out of the survivalist groups **** in a dress troll. The

people
there are protective of their children and know how to take care

of
creeps like you. You do realize that you were voted to be the

first
to catch a bullet between the eyes if ever SHTF?



That should be a wrap, John. Now you see the kind of degenerate ****
that Gunner dragged in here years ago. Look at the Pecker's latest
half-dozen posts in here and you'll see the kind of sick and
disgusting crap that drove many people away. He's assumed for

himself
the role of Ambassador for Survivalists, but he's far from the only
one from there who has emotional problems.



I don't know if you've tried the moderated groups, but there are a

few
such that cover metalworking. My opinion is that you still get

better
answers here, and the amount of experience per person probably runs
higher here, but there is that noise coming in from other NGs...



--
Ed ****dtess




Be glad it's just a half dozen post Douchebag, Imean ****dress.
Although you may just be a douchebag in a **** dress.

My half dozen posts could easily turn into hundreds to rival your
trolling in the survival groups.

That's right John. Your best friend metalworki g mentor likes to
troll other forums looking for gay sex with minors in his **** dress.
Think about that next time you meet in person and shake his hand.

If you're ok with that John, then you must be a pervert too. They did
say this group has their fair share of them. I suppose it's all of
Ed's friends, I mean ****dress' friends. I guess the meyalworng was a
good cover up until now. LOL, gay sex trolling metalworkers. What's
next, a Democrat president?
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On Mon, 06 May 2019 22:54:23 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 12:21:17 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 20:42:39 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:



On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 17:13:06 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
See what I mean, John?

See what I mean John? See what I mean?

Guess what **** in a dress? Even John doesn't believe you. John

isn't
so stupid that he can't Google your troll posts in the survival
groups.

Hell, I've thrown you back over the fence so many times that John
doesn't even have to leave the group to know that you are a first
class troll who trolls for minors to have gay sex with.

Isn't that true **** in a Dress? Of course it is. Google is your
friend John. ****dress wants to **** your minor sonin the ass.

Stay out of the survivalist groups **** in a dress troll. The

people
there are protective of their children and know how to take care

of
creeps like you. You do realize that you were voted to be the

first
to catch a bullet between the eyes if ever SHTF?



That should be a wrap, John. Now you see the kind of degenerate ****
that Gunner dragged in here years ago. Look at the Pecker's latest
half-dozen posts in here and you'll see the kind of sick and
disgusting crap that drove many people away. He's assumed for

himself
the role of Ambassador for Survivalists, but he's far from the only
one from there who has emotional problems.



I don't know if you've tried the moderated groups, but there are a

few
such that cover metalworking. My opinion is that you still get

better
answers here, and the amount of experience per person probably runs
higher here, but there is that noise coming in from other NGs...



--
Ed ****dtess




Be glad it's just a half dozen post Douchebag, Imean ****dress.
Although you may just be a douchebag in a **** dress.

My half dozen posts could easily turn into hundreds to rival your
trolling in the survival groups.


I've never trolled anywhere in my life, but you don't need to threaten
RCP. We already know you're a dickhead who cares about no one but
himself.


That's right John. Your best friend metalworki g mentor likes to
troll other forums looking for gay sex with minors in his **** dress.
Think about that next time you meet in person and shake his hand.

If you're ok with that John, then you must be a pervert too. They did
say this group has their fair share of them. I suppose it's all of
Ed's friends, I mean ****dress' friends. I guess the meyalworng was a
good cover up until now. LOL, gay sex trolling metalworkers. What's
next, a Democrat president?


Ha-ha! Red Pecker probably has the longest nose and the hairiest palms
in Indiana d8-)

You're getting yourself all worked up with your imagination, Pecker.
You'd better calm down or you're going to need a skin graft on your
dick -- and your hands.

Get a life, Pecker.

--
Ed Huntress


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..


I've never trolled anywhere in my life, but you don't need to

threaten
RCP. We already know you're a dickhead who cares about no one but
himself.


Are we changing the name of the group to rec.****sindresses &
pussydresses? I guess John hasn't gone under the knife yet and just
enjoys his pussy dress and mangina for now.

Good choice for the rename, your followers should be happy with the
rename. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the survival though. As
leader of your group. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the survival
groups and you will have our blessing on thename change you merry
bunch of perverts in dresses.



Ha ha


Why do you like about not being a troll? Are your RCP friends too
stupid to use the Google?

--


Ed ****dress


Stupid **** in a Dress, get a life.
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On Fri, 10 May 2019 19:51:59 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

.


I've never trolled anywhere in my life, but you don't need to

threaten
RCP. We already know you're a dickhead who cares about no one but
himself.


Are we changing the name of the group to rec.****sindresses &
pussydresses? I guess John hasn't gone under the knife yet and just
enjoys his pussy dress and mangina for now.

Good choice for the rename, your followers should be happy with the
rename. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the survival though. As
leader of your group. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the survival
groups and you will have our blessing on thename change you merry
bunch of perverts in dresses.



Ha ha


Why do you like about not being a troll? Are your RCP friends too
stupid to use the Google?


Pecker, you lame, lying troll. Maybe you should take a hint from the
fact that nobody on alt.survival will even talk to you --nothing since
March, except for two smarmy cracks by your xenophobe-in-chief.

You've talked yourself into a dead-end.

--
Ed Huntress
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Its pretty sad when I have to kill list my own thread because regulars
keep replying to the trolls I already have blocked.

On 4/25/2019 8:24 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Back in the mid 90s atleast partly with help from this group I made my
first "punch" and "die."Â* I needed to install some photo beams at a port
of entry for a pedestrian counter.Â* I designed the "system" using a
variety of parts and components, but I was concerned about the photo
beams themselves.Â* They had something like a 5 year warranty, but the
lenses were polycarbonate. Each set of beams had to be placed in a
walkway between counters.Â* My concern was that people brushing by would
quickly wear the lens as clothing bags, and misc items brushed against
the sides of the walkway.Â* I didn't want to be that guy who everybody
there got to know because I was always there fixing it.Â* I had the idea
to recess the emitter and sensor so that only the most aggressive
brushing up against might contact the surfaces.Â* I looked all over, but
nobody made a recessed electrical plate that I thought would work.Â* I
took a piece of hot rolled (didn't even know what it was called at the
time) and cut one pieces with a rectangular hole in it to mate with the
back of an aluminum electrical blank plate.Â* I chamfered the edges by
hand with a grinder so it was a decent fit.Â* Then I cut a small piece to
mate with it about plate thickness smaller all the way around and hand
chamfered it as well.Â* Then I just mashed a cover plate between them
with my hydraulic press.Â* (had it for automotive work, not machine
work)Â* It looked amazingly good.Â* I doubt the guys at GSA ever noticed
that was a custom piece.

As a new (mostly black box) system it had its development issues, but
lens wear of the emitter and sensor was not one of them.Â* It was in use
for years until they went to a new system with some big contractor at
all the ports.

That was definitely metal working.Â* I doubt it was really machining
though except in the crudest sense.Â* I take that sort of approach to a
lot of what I do.Â* I don't have a stick up my butt about being a
"machinist" "welder" "fabricator" "mechanic".Â* In fact my knowledge is
lacking really in all of those areas even though now I make my living as
a niche market mold maker. I can weld.Â* If its important to look pretty
I do some practice welds and then do the real weld after I've taken a
break and I am fresh.Â* If it just has to stick I burn it together and
clean it up with a grinder.Â* I know less about welding than almost
anybody else in this group, but oddly enough I have five electric
welders and an OA rig and I have welded parts still in use today with
all but one of them.Â* (Just got a new AC/DC pulse TIG a couple days
ago.)Â* Fabricator is a tough term to define, but I've built and
converted trailers a welding table wood storage rack and various other
things to fit needs.A lot of welding there, but various other
fabrication skills as well.Â* Still I don't consider myself a
fabricator.Â* I do have people bring me things to make or fix, but I turn
down a lot of it unless they are friends and they stay to help.Â* What
about a machinist... No.Â* Just ask any old manual machinist.Â* I'm just a
hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very fact that I never
serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam powered line shop.Â* LOL.

Since I'm no longer a contractor (retired and sold out) what does that
make me?Â* There is a lot I don't know, but very few projects am I afraid
to try to come up with a solution.Â* Atleast for myself.Â* I won't always
take on projects for others.Â* If I don't know I learn how.Â* If I can't
figure it out myself I ask questions.Â* If I don't have the recommended
tools I think about it and see if I can find alternatives.Â* If I still
have to have the tools I put them on the list and when I have money I
buy them.

The term "Maker" always bothered me.Â* It didn't sound quite right, but
ultimately I think that's what I am.Â* A maker.Â* I find ways to make what
I need and I don't worry to much about being true to any particular
trade.Â* If it works it works.

I'm a long time member of this group of course.Â* Saddens me to see that
signal to nose ration what it is today.Â* I'm a member of various other
groups.Â* Some very specialized around a particular piece of equipment
like the Yahoo mailing list for the mini lathe and others more broad
like Home Shop Machinist, so when I started my own group (on Facebook)
what did I call it?Â* Makers & Builders.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MakersBuilders/ Visit or don't.Â* I'm
good either way.


Its pretty sad when I have to kill list my own thread because regulars
keep replying to the trolls I already have blocked.


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On Fri, 10 May 2019 21:21:04 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Fri, 10 May 2019 19:51:59 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:



.


I've never trolled anywhere in my life, but you don't need to

threaten
RCP. We already know you're a dickhead who cares about no one but
himself.


Are we changing the name of the group to rec.****sindresses &
pussydresses? I guess John hasn't gone under the knife yet and

just
enjoys his pussy dress and mangina for now.

Good choice for the rename, your followers should be happy with

the
rename. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the survival though. As
leader of your group. Just stop trolling for gay sex in the

survival
groups and you will have our blessing on thename change you merry
bunch of perverts in dresses.



Ha ha


Why do you like about not being a troll? Are your RCP friends too
stupid to use the Google?



Pecker, you lame, lying troll. Maybe you should take a hint from the
fact that nobody on alt.survival will even talk to you --nothing

since
March, except for two smarmy cracks by your xenophobe-in-chief.



You've talked yourself into a dead-end.



--
Ed ****dress



Did you notice that when you put on your son's **** dress and went
prancing around the survival groups trolling for gay sex?

Yes, I believe that's when you noticed.

Did you trade cuny dresses with your son?

Do you prefer your son's more modern **** dress to the more
traditional **** dress your daddy gave you?
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On Sat, 11 May 2019 12:35:23 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:
Its pretty sad when I have to kill list my own thread because

regulars
keep replying to the trolls I already have blocked.



On 4/25/2019 8:24 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Back in the mid 90s atleast partly with help from this group I

made my
first "punch" and "die."* I needed to install some photo beams at

a port
of entry for a pedestrian counter.* I designed the "system" using

a
variety of parts and components, but I was concerned about the

photo
beams themselves.* They had something like a 5 year warranty, but

the
lenses were polycarbonate. Each set of beams had to be placed in

a
walkway between counters.* My concern was that people brushing by

would
quickly wear the lens as clothing bags, and misc items brushed

against
the sides of the walkway.* I didn't want to be that guy who

everybody
there got to know because I was always there fixing it.* I had

the idea
to recess the emitter and sensor so that only the most aggressive
brushing up against might contact the surfaces.* I looked all

over, but
nobody made a recessed electrical plate that I thought would

work.* I
took a piece of hot rolled (didn't even know what it was called

at the
time) and cut one pieces with a rectangular hole in it to mate

with the
back of an aluminum electrical blank plate.* I chamfered the

edges by
hand with a grinder so it was a decent fit.* Then I cut a small

piece to
mate with it about plate thickness smaller all the way around and

hand
chamfered it as well.* Then I just mashed a cover plate between

them
with my hydraulic press.* (had it for automotive work, not

machine
work)* It looked amazingly good.* I doubt the guys at GSA ever

noticed
that was a custom piece.

As a new (mostly black box) system it had its development issues,

but
lens wear of the emitter and sensor was not one of them.* It was

in use
for years until they went to a new system with some big

contractor at
all the ports.

That was definitely metal working.* I doubt it was really

machining
though except in the crudest sense.* I take that sort of approach

to a
lot of what I do.* I don't have a stick up my butt about being a
"machinist" "welder" "fabricator" "mechanic".* In fact my

knowledge is
lacking really in all of those areas even though now I make my

living as
a niche market mold maker. I can weld.* If its important to look

pretty
I do some practice welds and then do the real weld after I've

taken a
break and I am fresh.* If it just has to stick I burn it together

and
clean it up with a grinder.* I know less about welding than

almost
anybody else in this group, but oddly enough I have five electric
welders and an OA rig and I have welded parts still in use today

with
all but one of them.* (Just got a new AC/DC pulse TIG a couple

days
ago.)* Fabricator is a tough term to define, but I've built and
converted trailers a welding table wood storage rack and various

other
things to fit needs.A lot of welding there, but various other
fabrication skills as well.* Still I don't consider myself a
fabricator.* I do have people bring me things to make or fix, but

I turn
down a lot of it unless they are friends and they stay to help.*

What
about a machinist... No.* Just ask any old manual machinist.* I'm

just a
hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very fact that I

never
serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam powered line

shop.* LOL.

Since I'm no longer a contractor (retired and sold out) what does

that
make me?* There is a lot I don't know, but very few projects am I

afraid
to try to come up with a solution.* Atleast for myself.* I won't

always
take on projects for others.* If I don't know I learn how.* If I

can't
figure it out myself I ask questions.* If I don't have the

recommended
tools I think about it and see if I can find alternatives.* If I

still
have to have the tools I put them on the list and when I have

money I
buy them.

The term "Maker" always bothered me.* It didn't sound quite

right, but
ultimately I think that's what I am.* A maker.* I find ways to

make what
I need and I don't worry to much about being true to any

particular
trade.* If it works it works.

I'm a long time member of this group of course.* Saddens me to

see that
signal to nose ration what it is today.* I'm a member of various

other
groups.* Some very specialized around a particular piece of

equipment
like the Yahoo mailing list for the mini lathe and others more

broad
like Home Shop Machinist, so when I started my own group (on

Facebook)
what did I call it?* Makers & Builders.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MakersBuilders/ Visit or don't.*

I'm
good either way.



Its pretty sad when I have to kill list my own thread because

regulars
keep replying to the trolls I already have blocked.


The **** in a Dress poisons every well he stops to moisten his ****
at.


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 125
Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Mon, 13 May 2019 12:07:20 -0700, Winston_Smith
wrote:
Ed Huntress takes a thread that has ONLY existed in r.c.m., throws

in
some of his sexual fantasy, some of his love of a spam ****ing
contest, and then posts the resulte ONLY in alt.survival.



And he wonders why no one has any respect for him.


Thank you for coming here and telling the truth.
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