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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"bob prohaska" wrote in message news

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind
the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct
name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right angle
pipe wrench on the end of a T handle). Google or search amazon.com for
pictures of both. Or make a socket by milling a deep 3/4" wide slot in the
end of a piece of 1" square bar and turn it with a big adjustable wrench.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska


Just some maybes... Can you fit a crowfoot in the

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NPUJNA/

Just one example, lots of makes out there...

Also those universal one size fit all sockets:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...+Socket+wrench

might work, don't know if it's big enough though nor how tight your nut
is. I don't think those would hold up well to heavy loads...

Also might fit a basin wrench in the

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...s=basin+wrench

I would probably make something if all those fail to work

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 15:52:53 -0500
"Carl" wrote:

snip
Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right angle
pipe wrench on the end of a T handle). Google or search amazon.com for
pictures of both. Or make a socket by milling a deep 3/4" wide slot in the
end of a piece of 1" square bar and turn it with a big adjustable wrench.


Too funny Carl. My post sounded like an echo of your's

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original
plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats
milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of
the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch
behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the
correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have
crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that
requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct
terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska


Dos it back up to a closet where you could cut an access hole and fit
a cover?






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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Carl wrote:
"bob prohaska" wrote in message news

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind
the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct
name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right angle


Nowhere close to big enough for a crow's foot. I'll have a grind out some
of the tile and grout to get a relatively thin socket on the bonnet fitting.

If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_ work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|

There's nothing particularly special about the house or the way it's built,
I'm sure the valves were common before the advent of single-control valves.
If I knew what the needed wrench was called I'd have a chance of finding one.
Terms like "2 flat socket" and "2 point socket" find nothing. "Valve bonnet
wrench" finds many matches, but they're all hex.

A search through McMaster-Carr catalog 117 found nothing even close. That
could mean the valve is rare, but nore likely it just means the valve is a
purely residential product.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 4:43:20 PM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:


If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_ work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|


Thanks for writing,

bob


If I wore going to make a special tool, I would think about using a deep socket and a nut that fits the socket. And modify the nut by cutting it so it converts the socket to what you need. THen hold the pieces of the nut in the socket with glue

Dan
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
...
If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_
work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst
wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|


If you make a socket by milling a 3/4" slot in the end of round stock,
there's no need to match the 7/8" circle at the ends, the slot can
just be longer.


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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Dos it back up to a closet where you could cut an access hole and fit
a cover?


No, shower and tub are back-to-back, plumbing is in the common wall
and both surfaces are tiled.

I suspect a lot of these valves were used in the '50s and '60s and
quite a few of them are still in service. If I knew what they're called
it's likely I could find a wrench, or at least what the wrench looks
like.

I don't have any machine tools except a lathe, so cutting a pair of
accurate wrench flats will be a "file and fit" proposition. Using the
lathe to form a pilot hole that fits on the valve stem/bonnet will
ease the fiting problem somewhat, but a purchased wrench of the correct
type is much less likely to damage the valve.

Would posting a photo of the valve bonnet help with identifying it?
I thought somebody would recognize it by the description.

Thanks for posting,

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 15:52:53 -0500
"Carl" wrote:

snip
Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right
angle
pipe wrench on the end of a T handle). Google or search amazon.com for
pictures of both. Or make a socket by milling a deep 3/4" wide slot in
the
end of a piece of 1" square bar and turn it with a big adjustable wrench.


Too funny Carl. My post sounded like an echo of your's


:-)

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Jim Wilkins wrote:


I don't have any machine tools except a lathe, so cutting a pair of
accurate wrench flats will be a "file and fit" proposition.


You can mill on a lathe, as long as the cutter in the chuck only
pushes the work on the carriage downward.



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 2:52:00 PM UTC-8, bob prohaska wrote:

I suspect a lot of these valves were used in the '50s and '60s and
quite a few of them are still in service. If I knew what they're called
it's likely I could find a wrench, or at least what the wrench looks
like.

I don't have any machine tools except a lathe, so cutting a pair of
accurate wrench flats will be a "file and fit" proposition.


Yeah, that's do-able; just turn a thick disk, mark center and scribe lines
at 3/8 inch either side; hacksaw through half or less of the thickness
near those lines, and grind out the middle.

Then fine-tune with a file until it fits. Extra credit, weld a pipe onto the
disk and make a T-element on the other end of the pipe for a handle.

Actually, welding a couple of bars onto the endface of a pipe wouldn't be too bad:
clamp a right-thickness chunk between 'em to keep parallel.
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


That's the problem with posting a question about unseen hardware here.
Like calling the body shop and asking "How much to fix my fender?" LOL
Sounds like what I call Double D, but I've never seen one on plumbing,
only on electronics and front wheel spindle washers.

The worst part about plumbing is that the guy who installs this crap
never has to disassemble it 10-50 years later. If only they'd put
anti-sieze on it in the first place...

Will calipers fit down in there to get good measurements to mill one
up? Find the Old Guy at the ACE near you and ask him, or an ancient
plumber.

--
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined
and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross
the road." --Steven Hawking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 2:52:00 PM UTC-8, bob prohaska wrote:

I suspect a lot of these valves were used in the '50s and '60s and
quite a few of them are still in service. If I knew what they're called
it's likely I could find a wrench, or at least what the wrench looks
like.

I don't have any machine tools except a lathe, so cutting a pair of
accurate wrench flats will be a "file and fit" proposition.


Yeah, that's do-able; just turn a thick disk, mark center and scribe lines
at 3/8 inch either side; hacksaw through half or less of the thickness
near those lines, and grind out the middle.

Then fine-tune with a file until it fits. Extra credit, weld a pipe onto the
disk and make a T-element on the other end of the pipe for a handle.

Actually, welding a couple of bars onto the endface of a pipe wouldn't be too bad:
clamp a right-thickness chunk between 'em to keep parallel.


The idea of welding wrench jaws to a handle is a good one that I
didn't think of. I do have a welder, trying to make a wrench would
be an instructive exercise in any event.

In the ( probaby vain ) hope that somebody will recognize the valve's
maker or the needed wrench type a few photos have been put at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
For scale, the long threaded part is 5/8" diameter, the flats are about
3/4" apart and the OD of the boss is 7/8".

If the manufacturer is known it'd maybe let me anticipate what sort
of seals are required before I take it apart.

Thanks very much!

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


That's the problem with posting a question about unseen hardware here.
Like calling the body shop and asking "How much to fix my fender?" LOL
Sounds like what I call Double D, but I've never seen one on plumbing,
only on electronics and front wheel spindle washers.

Double-D looks right in the photos, but the few examples I can find
on-line are all much too small. Still, it's a start, I've never seen
the term before.

The worst part about plumbing is that the guy who installs this crap
never has to disassemble it 10-50 years later. If only they'd put
anti-sieze on it in the first place...

Yes, that's one of the larger questions. I've no idea how badly stuck
the threads are.

Will calipers fit down in there to get good measurements to mill one
up? Find the Old Guy at the ACE near you and ask him, or an ancient
plumber.

The one ancient plumber I talked to said "You've got a problem".
All the rest seem to be dead or retired.

My calipers won't fit, but I can get them close enough to have a pretty
good idea of the size. The flats are just under .750 across, the boss
OD is just under .875" across, the long thread (holds the decorative
cover on) is close to .625" in the photos at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/

Thanks very much for the double-d tip!

bob prohaska




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"bob prohaska" wrote in message
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http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/

Thanks very much for the double-d tip!

bob prohaska


It may have been assembled with an open-end wrench before it was
placed in the wall. I'd look into modifying a cheap 3/4" or 19mm deep
impact socket, perhaps anneal it, drill / bore out the ID, mill
(grind) clearance notches across the end and turn it with Vise-Grips.
-jsw


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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

You are not ever going to find a ready-made wrench for that. The
welded-up suggestion is a good one. Another approach might be to use a
die grinder to cut the other 4 flats on your nut & turn it into a hex.
The nut being brass would make it more easily done.

However, fitting a wrench to that nut is likely to be only the first
problem in fixing that shower. After 60 years, that nut is not going to
come out gracefully and there's a good probability that something will
break in the process.

The right way to fix the valve is to replace it. I know, it's in a
tiled wall, but they make large plates to cover the hole. Google/images
"remodeling shower cover plate". Ask This Old House did a segment on
it:
https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/...d-shower-valve

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.
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"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
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You are not ever going to find a ready-made wrench for that. The
welded-up suggestion is a good one. Another approach might be to
use a die grinder to cut the other 4 flats on your nut & turn it
into a hex. The nut being brass would make it more easily done.

However, fitting a wrench to that nut is likely to be only the first
problem in fixing that shower. After 60 years, that nut is not
going to come out gracefully and there's a good probability that
something will break in the process.

The right way to fix the valve is to replace it. I know, it's in a
tiled wall, but they make large plates to cover the hole.
Google/images "remodeling shower cover plate". Ask This Old House
did a segment on it:
https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/...d-shower-valve

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't
be the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I've partly disassembled a tree of old brass pipe from a contractor
neighbor's scrap pile. Some of the pipe-doped fittings unscrew fairly
easily, others require enough vise clamping pressure to crush the
pipe.

The pipe can be machined into 1/2" ID pivot pin bushings that
withstand more force than Oilite.

-jsw


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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 05:44:41 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

snip
In the ( probaby vain ) hope that somebody will recognize the valve's
maker or the needed wrench type a few photos have been put at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
For scale, the long threaded part is 5/8" diameter, the flats are about
3/4" apart and the OD of the boss is 7/8".


I've got the same or very similar bathtub faucet. Mine wasn't mounted
so deep and you can fit a spanner wrench on the bonnets. Couldn't get
the seats out though. Didn't want to break something trying any harder
to turn them. Those two flats on the bonnet for a wrench are pretty
common or at least it used to be. For instance Streamway as shown he

https://www.danco.com/product/7j-2hc...amway-faucets/

is pretty close. You can download the whole Danco catalog here (huge!
180MB):

https://s16962.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...thAddendum.pdf

it has good pictures for a lot of old stems in it with manufacturer
names. Streamway has a few good examples on actual page 38 of pdf. I
couldn't find any special sockets to fit that shape though. Also a
nice schematic on page 5 detailing all the proper part names...

On my bathtub I just replaced the washer, packer, escutcheon nipple and
escutcheon. Used a 6-flute countersink to touch up the seats. Maybe a
conical grind stone too. Probably by hand or really slow in VSR drill.
Been over 10 years now, don't remember the details for sure...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska


I would tell you to call a plumbing shop but you probably already did.
There is a shop I go to rarely for old stuff and they would at least
know if the tool is available. There is another thing you should do
along with this repair and that is install valves (AKA stops) in the
plumbing before the shower and tub valves. This way you only need to
shut off water to those valves and not the whole house. If you take
that valve apart and everything goes to hell with the valve you will
be happy that you installed the extra stops. Of course this assumes
you can get access easily to the plumbing under the floor.
Eric


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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Leon Fisk wrote:

I've got the same or very similar bathtub faucet. Mine wasn't mounted
so deep and you can fit a spanner wrench on the bonnets. Couldn't get
the seats out though. Didn't want to break something trying any harder
to turn them. Those two flats on the bonnet for a wrench are pretty
common or at least it used to be. For instance Streamway as shown he

https://www.danco.com/product/7j-2hc...amway-faucets/

is pretty close. You can download the whole Danco catalog here (huge!
180MB):

https://s16962.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...thAddendum.pdf

it has good pictures for a lot of old stems in it with manufacturer
names. Streamway has a few good examples on actual page 38 of pdf. I
couldn't find any special sockets to fit that shape though. Also a
nice schematic on page 5 detailing all the proper part names...

On my bathtub I just replaced the washer, packer, escutcheon nipple and
escutcheon. Used a 6-flute countersink to touch up the seats. Maybe a
conical grind stone too. Probably by hand or really slow in VSR drill.
Been over 10 years now, don't remember the details for sure...


Just sent an email to Danco with a link to the photos, maybe they'll reply.
In the meantime I'll download the manual to see what I can learn.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for pointing
it out.

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On 12/10/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska



How about long-nose vise grips, maybe with some grinding.
Good use for Harbor Freight tools. :-)

--
Gary A. Gorgen | "From ideas to PRODUCTS"
| Tunxis Design Inc.
| Cupertino, Ca. 95014
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On 12/11/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for pointing
it out.

bob prohaska



I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around 1950.
It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the repair
battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them. It was a
big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you add them all up
over the years. Just sayin'.

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
news
On 12/11/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it
won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd
rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too
much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the
decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for
pointing
it out.

bob prohaska


I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around
1950. It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the
repair battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them.
It was a big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you
add them all up over the years. Just sayin'.

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L


A 1/2" hex nut bored out to fit over the pipe could be the scribing or
chiseling guide.




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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Gary A. Gorgen wrote:

How about long-nose vise grips, maybe with some grinding.
Good use for Harbor Freight tools. :-)


I should probably at least think about the idea. It's a cringeworthy
practice, but if the bonnet is loose enough to remove that way it'd
be easy to file the rounded parts to fit a hex socket.

Up to now I've been thinking the bonnet is too tight tp remove with
something as flimsy as long-nose pliers, perhaps I should check first.
The grip will be very frail, but it'll only have to work once.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska


I would tell you to call a plumbing shop but you probably already did.
There is a shop I go to rarely for old stuff and they would at least
know if the tool is available. There is another thing you should do
along with this repair and that is install valves (AKA stops) in the
plumbing before the shower and tub valves. This way you only need to
shut off water to those valves and not the whole house. If you take
that valve apart and everything goes to hell with the valve you will
be happy that you installed the extra stops. Of course this assumes
you can get access easily to the plumbing under the floor.


Access? yes. Easy? no.... Adding stops before the shower and tub could
be done, but I think it'll be a considerable project in its own right.
Still, it's something to think about. I should probably look at the tub
valves before going too much farther.

Thanks!

bob prohaska



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Jim Wilkins wrote:
I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around
1950. It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the
repair battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them.
It was a big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you
add them all up over the years. Just sayin'.

Long term the bathroom should be completely re-done, certainly. It's
possible the clock has already run out, but I'm not willing to admit
it just yet 8-)

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L


A 1/2" hex nut bored out to fit over the pipe could be the scribing or
chiseling guide.


You're right, that's not much metal to remove. Alas, my freehand skills
with a die grinder aren't very good. If I could extract the bonnet once
I could certainly file the hex accurately enough. If I can replace the
seals and put it back once it'll outlive me...

bob prohaska





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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

If you have a socket with flat to flat distance suitable for the shower,
remove the unwanted flats with a bench grinder. Handy tools, those.

Hul

bob prohaska wrote:
Carl wrote:
"bob prohaska" wrote in message news

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind
the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct
name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right angle


Nowhere close to big enough for a crow's foot. I'll have a grind out some
of the tile and grout to get a relatively thin socket on the bonnet fitting.


If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_ work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|


There's nothing particularly special about the house or the way it's built,
I'm sure the valves were common before the advent of single-control valves.
If I knew what the needed wrench was called I'd have a chance of finding one.
Terms like "2 flat socket" and "2 point socket" find nothing. "Valve bonnet
wrench" finds many matches, but they're all hex.


A search through McMaster-Carr catalog 117 found nothing even close. That
could mean the valve is rare, but nore likely it just means the valve is a
purely residential product.


Thanks for writing,


bob prohaska




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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Hul Tytus wrote:
If you have a socket with flat to flat distance suitable for the shower,
remove the unwanted flats with a bench grinder. Handy tools, those.


Rather than butcher a good deep socket I decided to try making one out
of steel tubing. The valve bonnet needn't be extremely tight since it
seals with gaskets (though of course it could be siezed) and in any case
the valve is suspended on the piping, which won't take a whole lot of
torque no matter how strong the socket is.

It turned out to be surprisingly easy to craft a socket out of 3/4"
thinwall conduit, flaring the tube on the horn of an anvil and hammering
in the flats. If it proves weaker than the piping support making a
stronger socket out of better-quality tubing promises to be quite easy.

Perhaps this is why nobody bothers to sell sockets for this application;
they're easy enough to make. There are photos at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
in case anyone's curious.

To my relief (and some embarrassment) it was pointed out to me that the
tile on the back side of the shower wall stops below the shower valves.
If all else fails the valves can be replaced without disturbing the tile.

Thanks for reading, and everyone's counsel!

bob prohaska





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On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 17:18:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

There are photos at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
in case anyone's curious.


I was curios why "valve_1.jpg" reminded me of my dial-up days.;-)
2.8 MB verses ~150 KB... Nice wrench though, a bit crude, but made
of metal!
--
William
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William Bagwell wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 17:18:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

There are photos at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
in case anyone's curious.


I was curios why "valve_1.jpg" reminded me of my dial-up days.;-)


Just a matter of hoping the higher resolution might be helpful.

2.8 MB verses ~150 KB... Nice wrench though, a bit crude, but made
of metal!


You are being too polite. It fact it's _very_ crude
and took only a few minutes to make. I think it might
be strong enough as-is, but if not a much stronger
example can be made in little more time once material
is in-hand. Say, 7/8" ID by 1" OD DOM steel. I'm somewhat
fearful of needing a wrench that strong. Number one on
my list of things to avoid is damaging the pipes in the
wall.

The wrench had to be metal, to keep this thread on topic 8-)

Thanks for reading!

bob prohaska

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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 17:18:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Hul Tytus wrote:
If you have a socket with flat to flat distance suitable for the shower,
remove the unwanted flats with a bench grinder. Handy tools, those.


Rather than butcher a good deep socket I decided to try making one out
of steel tubing. The valve bonnet needn't be extremely tight since it
seals with gaskets (though of course it could be siezed) and in any case
the valve is suspended on the piping, which won't take a whole lot of
torque no matter how strong the socket is.

It turned out to be surprisingly easy to craft a socket out of 3/4"
thinwall conduit, flaring the tube on the horn of an anvil and hammering
in the flats. If it proves weaker than the piping support making a
stronger socket out of better-quality tubing promises to be quite easy.


Very similar to my solution to second son wanting a better tool to
operate the spare tire winch on his 2010 Grand Carravan. What was
required was a 1/2" sq. drive extension with a female end on both
ends. I took a length of 1/2" EMT and worked a modified 1/2' square
bar into each end -took all of ten minutes.

Perhaps this is why nobody bothers to sell sockets for this application;
they're easy enough to make. There are photos at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
in case anyone's curious.

To my relief (and some embarrassment) it was pointed out to me that the
tile on the back side of the shower wall stops below the shower valves.
If all else fails the valves can be replaced without disturbing the tile.

Thanks for reading, and everyone's counsel!

bob prohaska



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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:01:39 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 4:43:20 PM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:


If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_ work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|


Thanks for writing,

bob


If I wore going to make a special tool, I would think about using a deep socket and a nut that fits the socket. And modify the nut by cutting it so it converts the socket to what you need. THen hold the pieces of the nut in the socket with glue

Dan


You will likely have to make your make a tool. Perhaps a piece of
solid round or hex stock and mill a slot in it, then bore a hole in
the center to fit the valve shaft. Be plenty strong at that point.

You might want to take a photo of the valve and ask a plumber or a
plumbing shop if they have the old wrench kicking around you could
rent or borrow.

Gunner
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:42:38 -0800, "Gary A. Gorgen"
wrote:

On 12/10/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska



How about long-nose vise grips, maybe with some grinding.
Good use for Harbor Freight tools. :-)


Oh, no no no no no. Don't use HF tools when rigidity, jaw toughness,
or parallelism are required of a tool. I'm a fond user of their
tools, but their vise grips are sh*t.

--
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined
and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross
the road." --Steven Hawking
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