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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1  
Old April 20th 17, 06:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1
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I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper base alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 - 5)% chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios (3 -9)% Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has 1907 C temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper as powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above
Thank with my regards
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  #3  
Old April 20th 17, 06:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,621
Default castting

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:29:07 -0700, asaadka77 wrote:

I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios (3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has 1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare between
these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear resistance.
Please if you any one can help me to achieved these requirements. Did
the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from copper aluminum
alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards


Most of your questions I can't help you with, but the fact that you don't
know if chromium is soluble in copper tells me that you haven't done your
homework.

A Really Short Web Search tells me that chromium-copper systems are
pretty complex: apparently chromium isn't miscible in copper, so you have
to work hard to get a nicely distributed suspension. This is NOT a
question that you're likely to get answered on an amateur metalworking
group (although there may be some enthusiast or retired metallurgist who
knows, in which case I'll be interested in seeing the answer myself).

I think you have some research papers to seek out and read.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com
  #4  
Old April 20th 17, 09:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,621
Default castting

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:33 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 20/04/17 06:29, wrote:
I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios (3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has 1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear
resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these
requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from
copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards

You would need to know the solubility of chrome in copper to know how
much you can add but modern pewter (Britannia metal) is made by melting
tin and then adding the copper and stirring to dissolve the copper.
Copper has a much higher melting temperature than tin but will readily
dissolve up to a point.


I did a bit of searching and based on the little bits I found it seems
they're imiscible.

I was hoping to find a master chart of the solubilities of all metals in
all metals -- I was disappointed.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com
  #5  
Old April 20th 17, 09:16 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 145
Default castting

On 20/04/17 21:01, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:33 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 20/04/17 06:29, wrote:
I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios (3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has 1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear
resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these
requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from
copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards

You would need to know the solubility of chrome in copper to know how
much you can add but modern pewter (Britannia metal) is made by melting
tin and then adding the copper and stirring to dissolve the copper.
Copper has a much higher melting temperature than tin but will readily
dissolve up to a point.

I did a bit of searching and based on the little bits I found it seems
they're imiscible.

I was hoping to find a master chart of the solubilities of all metals in
all metals -- I was disappointed.

I was reading recently about modern pewter (Britannia metal) and it's
typically 92-6-2 for rolled sheet with slight variations depending on
application. That's 92% tin, 6% antimony, and 2% copper. Apparently the
antimony also helps keep the copper in suspension and evenly distributed
as IIRC the copper would separate out and IIRC not much more copper will
dissolve in tin anyway. I've not looked for information as you have
about the copper chrome combination but maybe in a similar way another
element addition might boost take-up, I think I'll leave that to the OP
as I can't see I have any need for playing with a copper chrome alloy.
  #6  
Old April 20th 17, 09:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,515
Default castting

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:29:07 -0700, asaadka77 wrote:

I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper
base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 -
5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios
(3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has
1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper
as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between
these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear
resistance.
Please if you any one can help me to achieved these requirements.
Did
the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from copper
aluminum
alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards


Most of your questions I can't help you with, but the fact that you
don't
know if chromium is soluble in copper tells me that you haven't done
your
homework.

A Really Short Web Search tells me that chromium-copper systems are
pretty complex: apparently chromium isn't miscible in copper, so you
have
to work hard to get a nicely distributed suspension. This is NOT a
question that you're likely to get answered on an amateur
metalworking
group (although there may be some enthusiast or retired metallurgist
who
knows, in which case I'll be interested in seeing the answer
myself).

I think you have some research papers to seek out and read.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com


Phase Diagram:
https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/dl0p...in/pdf/039.pdf
It shows how the solubility of chromium in molten copper increases
with temperature.

Eutectic:
http://csmres.jmu.edu/geollab/Fichte...x/BinryEu.html

-jsw


  #7  
Old April 20th 17, 09:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default castting

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 4:01:48 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:33 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 20/04/17 06:29, wrote:
I am research student I need any one interest in casting of copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios (0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios (3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has 1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and wear
resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these
requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than properties from
copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards

You would need to know the solubility of chrome in copper to know how
much you can add but modern pewter (Britannia metal) is made by melting
tin and then adding the copper and stirring to dissolve the copper.
Copper has a much higher melting temperature than tin but will readily
dissolve up to a point.


I did a bit of searching and based on the little bits I found it seems
they're imiscible.

I was hoping to find a master chart of the solubilities of all metals in
all metals -- I was disappointed.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com


Copper and chromium are not miscable, but they are somewhat soluble, and there is a whole class of copper/chromium alloys:

https://www.copper.org/resources/pro.../chrom_cu.html

When the alloy is cooled, the chromium either goes into solid solution (fast quench) or it precipitates out (slow quench). The usefulness of the alloy depends upon further heat treatment, which allows a fine matrix of chromium to precipitate out of the alpha copper, resulting in a very strong, precipitation-hardened alloy.

You probably can find more by looking up the individual Copper Assn. alloy numbers, which are listed in the article linked to above.

Corrosion resistance of precipitation-hardened alloys typically is not very good, but I have no idea about this pair.

As for the aluminum, I'd start with the big handbooks from the American Society for Metals. I can look it up but it's worthwhile for the OP to make himself familiar with the resources. This is pretty obscure stuff and you have to find your way around the basic references if you're going to get anywhere with complex and obscure questions such as these.

--
Ed Huntress
  #8  
Old April 20th 17, 09:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,515
Default castting

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 4:01:48 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:33 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 20/04/17 06:29, wrote:
I am research student I need any one interest in casting of
copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios
(0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios
(3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has
1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper
as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and
wear
resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these
requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than
properties from
copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards

You would need to know the solubility of chrome in copper to know
how
much you can add but modern pewter (Britannia metal) is made by
melting
tin and then adding the copper and stirring to dissolve the
copper.
Copper has a much higher melting temperature than tin but will
readily
dissolve up to a point.


I did a bit of searching and based on the little bits I found it
seems
they're imiscible.

I was hoping to find a master chart of the solubilities of all
metals in
all metals -- I was disappointed.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com


Copper and chromium are not miscable, but they are somewhat soluble,
and there is a whole class of copper/chromium alloys:

https://www.copper.org/resources/pro.../chrom_cu.html

When the alloy is cooled, the chromium either goes into solid solution
(fast quench) or it precipitates out (slow quench). The usefulness of
the alloy depends upon further heat treatment, which allows a fine
matrix of chromium to precipitate out of the alpha copper, resulting
in a very strong, precipitation-hardened alloy.

You probably can find more by looking up the individual Copper Assn.
alloy numbers, which are listed in the article linked to above.

Corrosion resistance of precipitation-hardened alloys typically is not
very good, but I have no idea about this pair.

As for the aluminum, I'd start with the big handbooks from the
American Society for Metals. I can look it up but it's worthwhile for
the OP to make himself familiar with the resources. This is pretty
obscure stuff and you have to find your way around the basic
references if you're going to get anywhere with complex and obscure
questions such as these.

--
Ed Huntress

================

The copper-aluminum alloy is called a Bronze:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_bronze
-jsw


  #9  
Old April 20th 17, 10:12 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default castting

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 4:35:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 4:01:48 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:33 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 20/04/17 06:29, wrote:
I am research student I need any one interest in casting of
copper base
alloy or high copper alloy with chrome in different ratios
(0.46 - 5)%
chrome and copper base alloy with aluminum in different ratios
(3 -9)%
Al ,I need know how can cast of chrome in molten copper that has
1907 C
temp whereas the copper 1085 C, can I add chrome to molten copper
as
powder? Did the chrome dissolved in molten copper.
then I will try to make solution treatment to these alloy for
strengthening (quenching and aging) to ...then I will to compare
between these alloy with mechanical properties, corrosion and
wear
resistance. Please if you any one can help me to achieved these
requirements. Did the copper chrome alloy has more than
properties from
copper aluminum alloy with the ratios above Thank with my regards
You would need to know the solubility of chrome in copper to know
how
much you can add but modern pewter (Britannia metal) is made by
melting
tin and then adding the copper and stirring to dissolve the
copper.
Copper has a much higher melting temperature than tin but will
readily
dissolve up to a point.


I did a bit of searching and based on the little bits I found it
seems
they're imiscible.

I was hoping to find a master chart of the solubilities of all
metals in
all metals -- I was disappointed.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com


Copper and chromium are not miscable, but they are somewhat soluble,
and there is a whole class of copper/chromium alloys:

https://www.copper.org/resources/pro.../chrom_cu.html

When the alloy is cooled, the chromium either goes into solid solution
(fast quench) or it precipitates out (slow quench). The usefulness of
the alloy depends upon further heat treatment, which allows a fine
matrix of chromium to precipitate out of the alpha copper, resulting
in a very strong, precipitation-hardened alloy.

You probably can find more by looking up the individual Copper Assn.
alloy numbers, which are listed in the article linked to above.

Corrosion resistance of precipitation-hardened alloys typically is not
very good, but I have no idea about this pair.

As for the aluminum, I'd start with the big handbooks from the
American Society for Metals. I can look it up but it's worthwhile for
the OP to make himself familiar with the resources. This is pretty
obscure stuff and you have to find your way around the basic
references if you're going to get anywhere with complex and obscure
questions such as these.

--
Ed Huntress

================

The copper-aluminum alloy is called a Bronze:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_bronze
-jsw


I think he said chromium/copper/aluminum, but yeah, plain aluminum bronze is quite common -- and very strong.

With the chromiun/copper, the question is whether he wants a solid solution or the precipitation-hardened version. The precipitation process is commonly called "aging," but I don't know if this alloy will age naturally, like 6061 aluminum.

--
Ed Huntress
  #10  
Old April 20th 17, 10:33 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default castting

Thank Mr. David ...the solubility of chrome in copper about 1.5 %...I understand from your massage can I add chrome powder to copper....thank
 




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