Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

Daniel Koller wrote:



So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than
a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along
the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck.
...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the
desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees
of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good
Morse taper?
Unfortunately, very. What you may have to do, and it is really painful, is
to get it as close as you can, grind the taper with whatever you can
(Dremel, die grinder, etc. mounted on compound rest) to get it smooth and
then test fit with a morse taper socket. Examine the dye and decide which
way to adjust the compound swivel. Then, this is the painful part, you have
to make infinitesimal adjustments to the compound angle and try again.

How smooth does the cut have to be?
Pretty smooth, or it won't grab.

What are the
pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?
If the compound slide is worn, it may not travel in a straight line, leading
to a barrel rather than a cone.

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with
a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

Start with the carbide and get as close as you can, but the finish likely
needs to be ground.

Jon

"Daniel Koller" wrote in message
...


Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice
boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion with
a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice accessory for my
1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and will not
fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is
plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick
swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and browsed
the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little iffy
and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the dovetail
integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely the part can be
held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than a
degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along the side
of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck. ...actually, I just
calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils
over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good
Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the pitfalls to
cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with a
hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a carbide
tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make
sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

Being in a simular sitution i used a MT endmill holder in the tailstock to
hold round shank tooling. I later moved on to a
tg100 collet chuck that has a range up to 1 inch.


The easy way. No muss, no fuss.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-MT2-mors...AOSwgZ1XqgD O

Best Regards
Tom.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"Daniel Koller" wrote in message
...


Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice
boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion
with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice
accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and
will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do
about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is
plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick
swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and
browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut
straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little
iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the
dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely
the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better
than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it
along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck.
....actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the
desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees
of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a
good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the
pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch
with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to
make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be
appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

=====================

Even if you succeed you may not like the result. Morse #2 won't resist
much torque and the hole will likely taper smaller as the tailstock
extends. Save the boring head for your Bridgeport.
-jsw

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 5:35:33 PM UTC-4, Daniel Koller wrote:

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

My advice would be to find a piece of scrap stock and cut a morse taper on it. I think you can just use hss to cut the taper. Having made a taper, you can judge if it is exactly the right angle, how smooth the finish needs to be, etc. When you get an acceptable taper, leave the compound at that angle and cut the taper on the boring bar shank.

Is the shank part of the boring bar? Most boring bars screw onto a shank.

Dan

"Jim Wilkins"

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this
one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so
advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

=====================

Even if you succeed you may not like the result. Morse #2
won't resist much torque and the hole will likely taper
smaller as the tailstock extends. Save the boring head for
your Bridgeport.
-jsw



+1

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:51:58 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Daniel Koller wrote:



So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than
a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along
the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck.
...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the
desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees
of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good
Morse taper?
Unfortunately, very. What you may have to do, and it is really painful, is
to get it as close as you can, grind the taper with whatever you can
(Dremel, die grinder, etc. mounted on compound rest) to get it smooth and
then test fit with a morse taper socket. Examine the dye and decide which
way to adjust the compound swivel. Then, this is the painful part, you have
to make infinitesimal adjustments to the compound angle and try again.

How smooth does the cut have to be?
Pretty smooth, or it won't grab.

What are the
pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?
If the compound slide is worn, it may not travel in a straight line, leading
to a barrel rather than a cone.

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with
a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

Start with the carbide and get as close as you can, but the finish likely
needs to be ground.

Jon

I agree.

I wont cut morse taper males without doing it on a nice solid stiff
CNC machine.

If your machine is worn...get a matching morse taper device and simply
modify it.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 14:35:28 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Koller
wrote:



Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan
Greetings Dan,
Since you are only doing one part turning with the compound should
work OK. You will need a Morse #2 socket to use as a gauge as well as
some prussian blue. Keep in mind that the finished shank must be long
enough for you to be able to eject it from the tailstock quill. If the
existing shank isn't long enough you will need to add some length. To
do this the end of the shank can just be tapped for a screw that
sticks out enough. The screw does not need to be machined with a
taper, it's just there to add enough length so that the shank can be
ejected. Now, about turning that taper. Start gauging the taper well
before you get to the finished diameter. To get a good enough finish
will probably require polishing the the taper with sandpaper and/or a
stone. So, turn the shank until you have a taper about 2 inches long.
Wrap some good wet or dry sandpaper around something flat, like a 123
block, so that the sandpaper is backed up by a flat surface. Sand the
taper carefully making sure that the surface is sanded evenly. Then
try a test fit with a known good #2 socket. If the taper is pretty far
off you will feel it rocking. You should be able to tell if the taper
is more or less than the proper angle by observing where the socket is
pivoting from, either the front or the back. Once you are very close
apply a very thin layer of the prussian blue on the taper. Now try the
socket on the taper, pushing it on and then twisting slightly.
Removing the socket will reveal where the bluing has been rubbed off.
You want to remove material from wherever the bluing has been rubbed
off. The bluing can be bought at a good auto parts store. Ask for
"bearing blue" or "high spot blue". If they don't know what that is
tell them you need the marking compound used for setting the pinion
distance in a rear differential. When you get the compound set
correctly start removing enough material to get the taper to the
proper length. When you are close and only a tiny amount of material
needs to be removed for the taper to go deep enough into the socket
don't move the tool in the X axis. Instead move the tool in the Z
axis. This will make it much easier to get the shank to go in the
proper amount.
Good luck,
Eric

Nice machine. Some of us Know of the family that built it.

3/4" shaft ? wow that is large. Does it screw out of the head ? Many do.

If so then buy a Morse taper for it.

If you don't have the proper equipment it would be trivial for a pro
shop to do the job. If the shaft is forever on the head (doubtful) it
is a one time shot for the head. Wrong cut - trash the head.

Martin


On 4/4/2017 4:35 PM, Daniel Koller wrote:


Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

HI All,

Thanks a ton for the great suggestions. I am still interested in learning how to cut tapers, so I will try on some scrap pieces. ...and aluminum first.

But it's really hard to beat China inc.! For the price of that e-bay MT2 to 3/4" tool holder, I just don't know how I could do better. Even at minimum wage, I would have to cut a taper in under 2 hours to beat it. So I think I will try the tool holder for starters and see how it goes. If there is too much slop in my tail stock and it proves to be pointless, I can still use the tool holder and I haven't altered the shaft of the boring head.

Yes, the boring head shaft is most certainly part of the head. I looked under a microscope to be absolutely sure there wasn't a seam hidden away.

As for the Logan, it's a nice lathe. I know the son of the guy who bought it and started a business with in in 1952, so I know it's whole history. It survived a fire and 3 moves and all that was missing was one of the chuck jaws. I've fully restored it and it works nicely. The cross feed is a bit tapered, as it tends to bind as it feeds in, but the bed is in decent shape. The compound is new as the original one was broken. I used parts of the original compound and a new cross feed to mount a vertical carriage and vice for milling, so I just slide the cross feed off the end to switch between the two. I *wish* I had a Bridgeport, but the lathe works fine to mill small things.

Thanks again for the advice! I'm glad this group is still alive and thriving.

Dan









On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 5:35:33 PM UTC-4, Daniel Koller wrote:
Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut straight..
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

wrote in message
...
HI All,

Thanks a ton for the great suggestions. I am still interested in
learning how to cut tapers, so I will try on some scrap pieces.
....and aluminum first.

But it's really hard to beat China inc.! For the price of that
e-bay MT2 to 3/4" tool holder, I just don't know how I could do
better. Even at minimum wage, I would have to cut a taper in under 2
hours to beat it. So I think I will try the tool holder for starters
and see how it goes. If there is too much slop in my tail stock and
it proves to be pointless, I can still use the tool holder and I
haven't altered the shaft of the boring head.

Yes, the boring head shaft is most certainly part of the head. I
looked under a microscope to be absolutely sure there wasn't a seam
hidden away.

As for the Logan, it's a nice lathe. I know the son of the guy who
bought it and started a business with in in 1952, so I know it's whole
history. It survived a fire and 3 moves and all that was missing was
one of the chuck jaws. I've fully restored it and it works nicely.
The cross feed is a bit tapered, as it tends to bind as it feeds in,
but the bed is in decent shape. The compound is new as the original
one was broken. I used parts of the original compound and a new cross
feed to mount a vertical carriage and vice for milling, so I just
slide the cross feed off the end to switch between the two. I *wish*
I had a Bridgeport, but the lathe works fine to mill small things.

Thanks again for the advice! I'm glad this group is still alive and
thriving.

Dan

==================

Mount something with a Morse #2 shank in the lathe, put a dial
indicator in the tool holder and see how well you can adjust the
compound angle to follow the Morse taper.
-jsw








On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 5:35:33 PM UTC-4, Daniel Koller wrote:
Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a
nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment
motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really
nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and
will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do
about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There
is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for
quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe"
and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut
straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little
iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the
dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely
the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to
better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and
running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the
lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound
parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's
within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a
good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are
the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to
scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right
to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be
appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

Howdy,

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking of doing to get the initial angle close.

Out of curiosity, if I can only get but so close to the angle, is it better for the male taper to be more conical or less conical than the female for the best fit?

Dan

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 12:46:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
HI All,

Thanks a ton for the great suggestions. I am still interested in
learning how to cut tapers, so I will try on some scrap pieces.
...and aluminum first.

But it's really hard to beat China inc.! For the price of that
e-bay MT2 to 3/4" tool holder, I just don't know how I could do
better. Even at minimum wage, I would have to cut a taper in under 2
hours to beat it. So I think I will try the tool holder for starters
and see how it goes. If there is too much slop in my tail stock and
it proves to be pointless, I can still use the tool holder and I
haven't altered the shaft of the boring head.

Yes, the boring head shaft is most certainly part of the head. I
looked under a microscope to be absolutely sure there wasn't a seam
hidden away.

As for the Logan, it's a nice lathe. I know the son of the guy who
bought it and started a business with in in 1952, so I know it's whole
history. It survived a fire and 3 moves and all that was missing was
one of the chuck jaws. I've fully restored it and it works nicely.
The cross feed is a bit tapered, as it tends to bind as it feeds in,
but the bed is in decent shape. The compound is new as the original
one was broken. I used parts of the original compound and a new cross
feed to mount a vertical carriage and vice for milling, so I just
slide the cross feed off the end to switch between the two. I *wish*
I had a Bridgeport, but the lathe works fine to mill small things.

Thanks again for the advice! I'm glad this group is still alive and
thriving.

Dan

==================

Mount something with a Morse #2 shank in the lathe, put a dial
indicator in the tool holder and see how well you can adjust the
compound angle to follow the Morse taper.
-jsw








On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 5:35:33 PM UTC-4, Daniel Koller wrote:
Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a
nice boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment
motion with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really
nice accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and
will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do
about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There
is plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for
quick swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe"
and browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut
straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little
iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the
dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely
the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to
better than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and
running it along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the
lathe chuck. ...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound
parallel to the desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's
within 0.15 degrees of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a
good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are
the pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to
scratch with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right
to make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be
appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 10:26:59 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Howdy,

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking of doing to get the initial angle close.

Out of curiosity, if I can only get but so close to the angle, is it better for the male taper to be more conical or less conical than the female for the best fit?

Dan

SNIP

Mount something with a Morse #2 shank in the lathe, put a dial
indicator in the tool holder and see how well you can adjust the
compound angle to follow the Morse taper.
-jsw
SNIP
More conical, that way as the shank is forced into the socket the O.D.
of the socket can expand slightly to fit the shank. But really, it's
no big deal to get the taper correct. Jim's suggestion of indicating
an existing #2 morse taper shank should get you very close. For this
to work well though some care must be taken. First, indicate the taper
shank so that there is as close to zero runout as possible at both
ends. Then mount the indicator on the compound so that the tip is on
the exact center line of the lathe. Now you can set the angle using
Jim's suggestion. And when it comes time to turn the taper your
curring tool also needs to be set at the exact center line of the
lathe. If it is not you will not get the correct taper. I din't think
you should buy the adapter you wrote about. If you use it the boring
head will be hanging way out with a corresponding lack of rigidity. By
the way, why are you wanting to mount a boring head in the tailstock?
To set a center over in order to cut tapers?
Eric

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 1:27:01 PM UTC-4,

Out of curiosity, if I can only get but so close to the angle, is it better for the male taper to be more conical or less conical than the female for the best fit?

Dan


As I said make a morse taper on a piece of scrap steel. Doing that will answer all your questions. I think you will find it easier than most of the answers that you have gotten. My answer to the above is make it so it is the best fit. After machining it you can use some relatively fine sandpaper to get a smooth finish and to improve the fit.

Dan

" wrote in message
...
Howdy,

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking of doing to get the
initial angle close.

Out of curiosity, if I can only get but so close to the angle, is
it better for the male taper to be more conical or less conical than
the female for the best fit?

Dan

My vote for "better" is to leave the boring head alone and use a
boring bar toolholder on the carriage. Then all the factors that
contribute to deflection will remain constant as the cut advances into
the hole.

Before finding a proper one I adapted a boring head with a Morse #2
arbor to the Brown & Sharpe #7 spindle of my mill by shimming with a
ring of aluminum auto body repair tape. It was good enough to cut
holes for panel meters, but not when I needed to accurately bore a
replacement bushing in a hydraulic pump.
-jsw

.....
By the way, why are you wanting to mount a boring head in the tailstock?
To set a center over in order to cut tapers?
Eric

Laziness!! Mainly I'd like it as a convenient way to make oddball size holes. I have a quick-change tool post with a boring bar attachment, but most of the time I use a turret tool holder on the compound. It's nicely adjusted so I don't like to remove it often. That's why I have a whole separate cross-slide for my milling attachment. Being able to swap a boring head into the tail stock seems like a convenient thing to do, assuming it's not too sloppy.

I think I am going to try to tool holder first, to make sure I like the way the boring head works. If it's ok, and just a bit sloppy, I might cut a taper on it directly to tighten it up.

Someone mentioned "save it for my Bridgeport". I wish!! I had an opportunity to pick up a Bridgeport for cheap from the same guy who I got my lathe from but at the time I didn't have any sensible way of getting half a ton or more of metal into my basement. And now I am married.

Dan

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Koller
wrote:

....
By the way, why are you wanting to mount a boring head in the tailstock?
To set a center over in order to cut tapers?
Eric

Laziness!! Mainly I'd like it as a convenient way to make oddball size holes. I have a quick-change tool post with a boring bar attachment, but most of the time I use a turret tool holder on the compound. It's nicely adjusted so I don't like to remove it often. That's why I have a whole separate cross-slide for my milling attachment. Being able to swap a boring head into the tail stock seems like a convenient thing to do, assuming it's not too sloppy.

I think I am going to try to tool holder first, to make sure I like the way the boring head works. If it's ok, and just a bit sloppy, I might cut a taper on it directly to tighten it up.

Someone mentioned "save it for my Bridgeport". I wish!! I had an opportunity to pick up a Bridgeport for cheap from the same guy who I got my lathe from but at the time I didn't have any sensible way of getting half a ton or more of metal into my basement. And now I am married.

Dan
I thnk you will find that the boring head used in the tailstock will
make lousy holes. Especially if mounted in an adapter. I can already
hear the chatter. Since you are using a turret why not make a block to
hold a boring bar in the turret? If you mount the boring head in the
chuck you can bore the block exactly on the lathe center line. And, as
a bonus you can use the block to hold other centerline tools. Like if
you need to drill deep holes. Winding the tailstock in and out is way
slower than winding the carriage back and forth. Even if the block
holds the boring bar shank outboard of the turret it will be much more
rigid than the boring head hanging out of the tailstock quill.
Eric

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 2:49:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

My vote for "better" is to leave the boring head alone and use a
boring bar toolholder on the carriage.
-jsw

That is what I did. I have a lathe with a tool holding block on the compound. So I took a block of scrap steel and made it so it would fit in the tool holding block. Then put a sharp rod in the chuck and used it to scribe a line on the new block. So that line was on the centerline. So offset a bit higher and drilled a hole to hold the boring bar. When you are cutting on the lathe you want the tool to be a bit below centerline. But in boring you want it a bit high.

And then drilled some holes and tapped them for set screws to hold the boring bar.

So now I just have to put a boring bar in my block and put the block in the tool holder. No fiddling with shims

Dan

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 11:25:05 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 10:26:59 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Howdy,

Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking of doing to get the initial angle close.

Out of curiosity, if I can only get but so close to the angle, is it better for the male taper to be more conical or less conical than the female for the best fit?

Dan

SNIP

Mount something with a Morse #2 shank in the lathe, put a dial
indicator in the tool holder and see how well you can adjust the
compound angle to follow the Morse taper.
-jsw
SNIP
More conical, that way as the shank is forced into the socket the O.D.
of the socket can expand slightly to fit the shank. But really, it's
no big deal to get the taper correct. Jim's suggestion of indicating
an existing #2 morse taper shank should get you very close. For this
to work well though some care must be taken. First, indicate the taper
shank so that there is as close to zero runout as possible at both
ends. Then mount the indicator on the compound so that the tip is on
the exact center line of the lathe. Now you can set the angle using
Jim's suggestion. And when it comes time to turn the taper your
curring tool also needs to be set at the exact center line of the
lathe. If it is not you will not get the correct taper. I din't think
you should buy the adapter you wrote about. If you use it the boring
head will be hanging way out with a corresponding lack of rigidity. By
the way, why are you wanting to mount a boring head in the tailstock?
To set a center over in order to cut tapers?
Eric


It should be mentioned that many..many of the makers of such items
dont machine the entire body..but only a band about 1" wide on each
end..and turn the material in between undersize, so they dont have to
fight the entire length. Which makes a great deal of sense.

Gunner

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On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:53:51 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

It should be mentioned that many..many of the makers of such items
dont machine the entire body..but only a band about 1" wide on each
end..and turn the material in between undersize, so they dont have to
fight the entire length. Which makes a great deal of sense.

I'd always thought that was so the center could take stamped info,
before the final dimensioning. If you're grinding the exterior,
there's no big savings in time or trouble; the whole length is
done in one pass.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 15:54:24 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:53:51 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

It should be mentioned that many..many of the makers of such items
dont machine the entire body..but only a band about 1" wide on each
end..and turn the material in between undersize, so they dont have to
fight the entire length. Which makes a great deal of sense.

I'd always thought that was so the center could take stamped info,
before the final dimensioning. If you're grinding the exterior,
there's no big savings in time or trouble; the whole length is
done in one pass.

And leaves a goodly section that can be damaged, ruining the fit of
the whole taper. Shrug


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Check out :

http://www.lathe.com/

This is Logan Engineering - they made the lathes until the design was
sold and discontinued. So they make parts for the machine from time to
time. Have other parts as well.

Logan parts and maybe chucks. I bought a part and got it to fit my
machine (Sheldon) with a little machining one adaptor.

Martin - they have a newsletter.....

On 4/5/2017 9:44 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Nice machine. Some of us Know of the family that built it.

3/4" shaft ? wow that is large. Does it screw out of the head ? Many do.

If so then buy a Morse taper for it.

If you don't have the proper equipment it would be trivial for a pro
shop to do the job. If the shaft is forever on the head (doubtful) it
is a one time shot for the head. Wrong cut - trash the head.

Martin


On 4/4/2017 4:35 PM, Daniel Koller wrote:


Hi folks,

I have a machining question for the group. I have acquired a nice
boring head for a lathe tail stock. It has a smooth adjustment motion
with a big dial calibrated in mils and it would be a really nice
accessory for my 1952 Montgomery Ward / Logan 200 10" lathe.

However, the integral shaft of the head is 3/4" in diameter and
will not fit the Morse #2 taper of my tail stock. So, what can I do
about it?

I was thinking I should cut a Morse taper into the shaft. There is
plenty of diameter and length to do that, and it would allow for quick
swap-outs when I need it. I read through "How to Run a Lathe" and
browsed the various ways to cut a taper:
A) turn the compound to the desired angle and cut at an angle.
B) Offset the tail stock and hold the part between centers. Cut
straight.
C) Use a taper attachment.

I don't have a taper attachment, so C) is out. B) seems a little
iffy and I'd need to grind down a center to clear parts of the
dovetail integrated into the head. Also I don't trust how securely
the part can be held at the necessary offset to get the taper.

So, A) seems to be the best option. I can set the angle to better
than a degree by putting a micrometer on my compound and running it
along the side of a known good MT2 taper held in the lathe chuck.
...actually, I just calculated, if I get the compound parallel to the
desired taper by 0.5 mils over a 2" length, that's within 0.15 degrees
of the correct angle.

QUESTION 1: How accurate does this angle have to be to have a
good Morse taper? How smooth does the cut have to be? What are the
pitfalls to cutting a taper by rotating the compound?

And it appears that my boring head shaft is soft enough to scratch
with a hard steel cutting tool, so...

QUESTION 2: Do I have to grind the taper or can I cut it with a
carbide tipped turning tool?

I've never cut a taper before, and I need to get this one right to
make sure I don't screw up my boring head, so advice would be
appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan