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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Modern car paint and rust



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 16th 17, 07:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 17,077
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:42:21 -0600, Ignoramus20725
wrote:

On 2017-02-12, wrote:

Right. It's better coatings, better primers and protection, and
better application. Read, water-based coatings that often are based
on urethanes; phosphate and weldable, etching primers; galvanizing
in rust-prone areas; and electrophoresis and electrostatic
application. The first water-based coatings -- used into the '80s by
some manufacturers -- had poor adhesion and didn't weather
well. They're MUCH better now.

All of this became more necessary as body panels got thinner, with
the use of AHSS (advanced high-strength steels; a continuing
evolution of the HSLA [high-strength, low-alloy] steels that were
first used in the '70s). Rust is potentially a bigger problem than
ever because the steel is thinner.


Ed, if I buy a modern car like a Honda, how long can I realistically
expect them to last?

25 years if you take care of them. 5 to 7 if you don't. My daughter's
Honda is10? years old and the body is still spotless - and she has had
virtually no repairs. It is serviced regularly - the first years by
the dealer now by her Fiance who is a HD Truck mechanic.
Ads
  #23  
Old February 17th 17, 07:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 569
Default Modern car paint and rust

On 2/16/2017 10:55 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:13:56 -0600
amdx wrote:

snip
I have a 97 Toyota T-100 that still looks beautiful and runs great.
Will admit we had the sides of the bed repainted, not because of any
problem but because we used as a work truck and the idiots that loaded
it rubbed their belt buckles on the bed as they loaded it. They put a
bunch of scratches in the paint. I'm in the Florida sun and after 20
years the roof and hood still look good, we do garage it though.


They have a reputation in the rustbelt

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=toyot...t+recall&kd=-1


WOw! I'll need to climb under and check it out.
I expect I won't see any problems, it's been a Florida truck all it's
life, so no snow or salt on the underside. It just rolled over 100,000
miles in the last two weeks. Hmm, another 20 years will make me 81, I
might need to purchase another truck before I die. ;-)
Thanks for the heads up on the rust problem.

Mikek

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  #24  
Old February 17th 17, 09:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 17,077
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 12:56:10 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 2/16/2017 10:55 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:13:56 -0600
amdx wrote:

snip
I have a 97 Toyota T-100 that still looks beautiful and runs great.
Will admit we had the sides of the bed repainted, not because of any
problem but because we used as a work truck and the idiots that loaded
it rubbed their belt buckles on the bed as they loaded it. They put a
bunch of scratches in the paint. I'm in the Florida sun and after 20
years the roof and hood still look good, we do garage it though.


They have a reputation in the rustbelt

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=toyot...t+recall&kd=-1


WOw! I'll need to climb under and check it out.
I expect I won't see any problems, it's been a Florida truck all it's
life, so no snow or salt on the underside. It just rolled over 100,000
miles in the last two weeks. Hmm, another 20 years will make me 81, I
might need to purchase another truck before I die. ;-)
Thanks for the heads up on the rust problem.

Mikek

---
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If it has no rust yet, get a good oil type rust prevention spray on
it. Do they have Krown or RustChek down there? Or mabee Rusty Jones??
  #25  
Old February 17th 17, 09:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,280
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 12:56:10 -0600
amdx wrote:

snip
WOw! I'll need to climb under and check it out.
I expect I won't see any problems, it's been a Florida truck all it's
life, so no snow or salt on the underside. It just rolled over 100,000
miles in the last two weeks. Hmm, another 20 years will make me 81, I
might need to purchase another truck before I die. ;-)
Thanks for the heads up on the rust problem.


No biggie but it you get around to looking I would be curious to know
how it looks

A friend/neighbor bought a 1976 Chevy K20 Pickup from Montana last
summer. Made a trip to trailer it back. I had a 1976 C10
Shortbox Pickup that was ridiculously rusted out by 1980. Bottom of the
tailgate, doors, front fenders, front of the hood, inner box fenders...
It was two years old when I bought it and immediately had it
rustproofed. It still looked good then... Anyway the truck he brought
back is in immaculate condition. I had warned him about that year and
rust but was I ever wrong. Still has the original paint. He just did
some routine maintenance, tires, exhaust, cab mounts... and drove it.
It has been appraised at $18000 to $22000 if I recall correctly.

So where you live can make a big difference...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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  #26  
Old February 18th 17, 02:41 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17,077
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:45:56 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 12:56:10 -0600
amdx wrote:

snip
WOw! I'll need to climb under and check it out.
I expect I won't see any problems, it's been a Florida truck all it's
life, so no snow or salt on the underside. It just rolled over 100,000
miles in the last two weeks. Hmm, another 20 years will make me 81, I
might need to purchase another truck before I die. ;-)
Thanks for the heads up on the rust problem.


No biggie but it you get around to looking I would be curious to know
how it looks

A friend/neighbor bought a 1976 Chevy K20 Pickup from Montana last
summer. Made a trip to trailer it back. I had a 1976 C10
Shortbox Pickup that was ridiculously rusted out by 1980. Bottom of the
tailgate, doors, front fenders, front of the hood, inner box fenders...
It was two years old when I bought it and immediately had it
rustproofed. It still looked good then... Anyway the truck he brought
back is in immaculate condition. I had warned him about that year and
rust but was I ever wrong. Still has the original paint. He just did
some routine maintenance, tires, exhaust, cab mounts... and drove it.
It has been appraised at $18000 to $22000 if I recall correctly.

So where you live can make a big difference...



HUGE difference
  #27  
Old February 18th 17, 02:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1
Default Modern car paint and rust

On 2017-02-16, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:42:21 -0600
Ignoramus20725 wrote:

Ed, if I buy a modern car like a Honda, how long can I realistically
expect them to last?


You got any repo lots around where they sell stuff? I've got a big one
not too far away and it's very educational to look through. All sorts
of models, years and condition with no cleanup, prepping done for
resale.

I spend most of my time looking underneath the vehicles. The
front wheel well on the Honda CRV is quite interesting. Doesn't look
like a very long lived design for this area and road salt.

Another one that caught my eye was a Buick Rendezvous. The gas filler
is located above the rear wheel well. The filler pipe is in the well
with a thin protective material over some of it.

The Chevy Colorado that has all the emergency brake cable connections
inline with where the left front tire will throw all the road spray on
them.

The 2007 Chevy Silverado that had rear frame rails with major crusty
rust trouble.

Most people look at the body color/paint, interior... I get down and
look all around underneath. The exhaust, drive shaft, suspension,
wheel wells, emergency brake cables, frame rails


Very interesting. My wife had a CR/V for 10 years and it looked almost
new despite being parked outside. She is a gentle car user, for sure,
but still for Illinois it was impressive. Now she has a Honda Pilot,
the same story, great quality vehicle.

i
  #28  
Old February 21st 17, 09:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 230
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:25:30 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Am Dienstag, 14. Februar 2017 03:43:47 UTC+1 schrieb :

If you want to talk to someone who specializes in this stuff, I may be able to get you some names.


Thanks, Ed. That's a kind offer. Here's the question in a different form. I'm working on a book and I want to know how to get a coating with a similar performance (modern car paint is, as far as I can see, way better than anything I can get in the shop). It doesn't have be a unique or comprehensive answer, but it needs to be a practical and understandable method. Any idea of someone who could help?

Best wishes,

Chris


Sorry for the delay, Chris. I had surgery, and ten days later, my wife had surgery. I haven't been online for a while.

It sounds like you're talking about an aftermarket paint, right? Is it actually for cars, or something else?

And are you thinking of "performance" in terms of rust resistance, adhesion, gloss, or what?

Whenever I have questions like that, I go to DuPont, PPG, or similar companies and explain that I'm in need of an engineer, because I have technical questions. Sometimes customer service will direct me; other times, I have to go to marketing or press relations and explain that I'm writing something about it. That always works, although it can take a little time. Since you're writing a book, you should be able to leap that hurdle.

If you're not comfortable doing that, let me know what info you want and I'll get you some names and contact info. If you'd rather do it my email, the address above is valid (edhuntress2 [at] gmail.com.

Be aware that there are several approaches to protecting steel with aftermarket products: barriers; conversion coatings; and sacrificial coatings (zinc-loaded epoxy, for example). There is a lot of territory to cover.

--
Ed Huntress
  #29  
Old February 21st 17, 09:03 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 230
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 8:42:27 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus20725 wrote:
On 2017-02-12, wrote:

Right. It's better coatings, better primers and protection, and
better application. Read, water-based coatings that often are based
on urethanes; phosphate and weldable, etching primers; galvanizing
in rust-prone areas; and electrophoresis and electrostatic
application. The first water-based coatings -- used into the '80s by
some manufacturers -- had poor adhesion and didn't weather
well. They're MUCH better now.

All of this became more necessary as body panels got thinner, with
the use of AHSS (advanced high-strength steels; a continuing
evolution of the HSLA [high-strength, low-alloy] steels that were
first used in the '70s). Rust is potentially a bigger problem than
ever because the steel is thinner.


Ed, if I buy a modern car like a Honda, how long can I realistically
expect them to last?


Jeez, that's above my pay grade, Ig. There are just too many variables. I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry benchmark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you'll find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

--
Ed Huntress
  #30  
Old February 21st 17, 10:44 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17,077
Default Modern car paint and rust

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:03:45 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 8:42:27 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus20725 wrote:
On 2017-02-12,
wrote:

Right. It's better coatings, better primers and protection, and
better application. Read, water-based coatings that often are based
on urethanes; phosphate and weldable, etching primers; galvanizing
in rust-prone areas; and electrophoresis and electrostatic
application. The first water-based coatings -- used into the '80s by
some manufacturers -- had poor adhesion and didn't weather
well. They're MUCH better now.

All of this became more necessary as body panels got thinner, with
the use of AHSS (advanced high-strength steels; a continuing
evolution of the HSLA [high-strength, low-alloy] steels that were
first used in the '70s). Rust is potentially a bigger problem than
ever because the steel is thinner.


Ed, if I buy a modern car like a Honda, how long can I realistically
expect them to last?


Jeez, that's above my pay grade, Ig. There are just too many variables. I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry benchmark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you'll find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

A lot of today's vehicles have a 10 year rust "perforation" warranty.
If you get a bubble in the paint you KNOW there is perforation
allowing moisture in from the back.
 




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