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Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 13th 17, 03:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,893
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.

Just like your plasma - water kills.

Think of a vacuum cleaner / shop vacuum - and then one with a Hepa
filter on it. What air do you breathe while you clean up with it ?

Martin


On 2/12/2017 8:39 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
So I got a cylinder from a friend, that is a Avox System 9700 series, 11.0 CU FT 1800 PSI. Which I really really like, but I am confuse about if I have to refill it which O2 should I use, what if I just can not get aviators oxygen?

Actually I just don't know much about this.

Can someone help me?


Oxygen is oxygen. And unless someone can explain why they are
adding an impurity to the tank, the rest is hand waving.

Adding "Aviation" or "Medical" (like "all natural" or "marine") to
the label merely means it is going to cost you more.


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Ads
  #12  
Old February 13th 17, 05:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,712
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.


I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."



Just like your plasma - water kills.

Think of a vacuum cleaner / shop vacuum - and then one with a Hepa
filter on it. What air do you breathe while you clean up with it ?

Martin


On 2/12/2017 8:39 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
So I got a cylinder from a friend, that is a Avox System 9700 series, 11.0 CU FT 1800 PSI. Which I really really like, but I am confuse about if I have to refill it which O2 should I use, what if I just can not get aviators oxygen?

Actually I just don't know much about this.

Can someone help me?


Oxygen is oxygen. And unless someone can explain why they are
adding an impurity to the tank, the rest is hand waving.

Adding "Aviation" or "Medical" (like "all natural" or "marine") to
the label merely means it is going to cost you more.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #13  
Old February 13th 17, 06:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,887
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 12:14:04 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.


I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."

For one thing, improperly cleaned and/or purged tanks / lines / valves / connectors could have all sorts of impurities. just opening the empty tanks valve to ambient air will introduce impurities (notably, in this case, water in the form of atmospheric humidity).
  #14  
Old February 13th 17, 11:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,261
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:14:25 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.


Isn't that why they put the PSA in the bottom of the tank?


I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."


Especially in Antioch, unless thy passeth the holy hand grenade.


--
Give me the luxuries of life.
I can live without the necessities.
--anon
  #15  
Old February 14th 17, 01:30 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,578
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

danny burstein wrote in news
In Robert Nichols

writes:

Here's an interesting quote I ran across at http://www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo1.htm:
"Also of interest, we have been told by the suppliers of welding oxygen, the purity level

required for welding and cutting purposes is more critical than for breathing."

Well, sure. That's quoting from the welding oxygen sales reps..

Bet you'd get the exact same quote, just the other way, if
you spoke to medical oxygen sale reps...


I have my doubts; after all, the oxygen you're breathing right now is about four parts impurities
to one part oxygen...
  #16  
Old February 16th 17, 03:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,893
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

If you pump air into the medical OX with a cast iron pump with oil
in the rings - you send all sorts of crap from the pump. It also
picks up anything from the air it sucks in. Gas / Diesel / pollen .....
and pumps it into the tank. Lots of junk from the air. Guy painting
the building or out-gas paint...

When medical OX is made, the pump is in a nylon pump and it squeezes the
oxygen by squeezing a hose from a series of filters into the tank.

It is like a scuba tank - can't just suck in the CO the pump puts out
into the tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - it comes from a welding supply
in a welding tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - and it is for life/death it is
from the medical OX supplier.

Water is sucked into the pump and into the tank / hose in real time.
It is kept out of OX for life.

OX is generated in chemical reactions in canisters for airplanes. Now
and then one catches fire and causes news on the TV.

N2 tanks are 'dry' tanks also. No water. Many plasma machines use N2
not air. Plasma creates instant steam and it blasts the beam wide and
cools it as well giving a poor and sloppy cut edge.

Martin

On 2/13/2017 11:14 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.


I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."



Just like your plasma - water kills.

Think of a vacuum cleaner / shop vacuum - and then one with a Hepa
filter on it. What air do you breathe while you clean up with it ?

Martin


On 2/12/2017 8:39 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
So I got a cylinder from a friend, that is a Avox System 9700 series, 11.0 CU FT 1800 PSI. Which I really really like, but I am confuse about if I have to refill it which O2 should I use, what if I just can not get aviators oxygen?

Actually I just don't know much about this.

Can someone help me?

Oxygen is oxygen. And unless someone can explain why they are
adding an impurity to the tank, the rest is hand waving.

Adding "Aviation" or "Medical" (like "all natural" or "marine") to
the label merely means it is going to cost you more.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

  #17  
Old February 16th 17, 04:16 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,712
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

Martin Eastburn on Wed, 15 Feb 2017
21:42:38 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
If you pump air into the medical OX with a cast iron pump with oil
in the rings - you send all sorts of crap from the pump. It also
picks up anything from the air it sucks in. Gas / Diesel / pollen .....
and pumps it into the tank. Lots of junk from the air. Guy painting
the building or out-gas paint...


And what you have is not a tank of oxygen.

When medical OX is made, the pump is in a nylon pump and it squeezes the
oxygen by squeezing a hose from a series of filters into the tank.

It is like a scuba tank - can't just suck in the CO the pump puts out
into the tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - it comes from a welding supply
in a welding tank.


And it has nitrogen, co2, h2o, pollen and dust in it?

When I get an OX tank from a company - and it is for life/death it is
from the medical OX supplier.

Water is sucked into the pump and into the tank / hose in real time.
It is kept out of OX for life.

OX is generated in chemical reactions in canisters for airplanes. Now
and then one catches fire and causes news on the TV.

N2 tanks are 'dry' tanks also. No water. Many plasma machines use N2
not air. Plasma creates instant steam and it blasts the beam wide and
cools it as well giving a poor and sloppy cut edge.




Martin

On 2/13/2017 11:14 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.


I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."



Just like your plasma - water kills.

Think of a vacuum cleaner / shop vacuum - and then one with a Hepa
filter on it. What air do you breathe while you clean up with it ?

Martin


On 2/12/2017 8:39 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
So I got a cylinder from a friend, that is a Avox System 9700 series, 11.0 CU FT 1800 PSI. Which I really really like, but I am confuse about if I have to refill it which O2 should I use, what if I just can not get aviators oxygen?

Actually I just don't know much about this.

Can someone help me?

Oxygen is oxygen. And unless someone can explain why they are
adding an impurity to the tank, the rest is hand waving.

Adding "Aviation" or "Medical" (like "all natural" or "marine") to
the label merely means it is going to cost you more.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #18  
Old February 16th 17, 10:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,906
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you pump air into the medical OX with a cast iron pump with oil
in the rings - you send all sorts of crap from the pump. It also
picks up anything from the air it sucks in. Gas / Diesel / pollen .....
and pumps it into the tank. Lots of junk from the air. Guy painting
the building or out-gas paint...

When medical OX is made, the pump is in a nylon pump and it squeezes the
oxygen by squeezing a hose from a series of filters into the tank.

It is like a scuba tank - can't just suck in the CO the pump puts out
into the tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - it comes from a welding supply
in a welding tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - and it is for life/death it is
from the medical OX supplier.

Water is sucked into the pump and into the tank / hose in real time.
It is kept out of OX for life.

OX is generated in chemical reactions in canisters for airplanes. Now
and then one catches fire and causes news on the TV.

N2 tanks are 'dry' tanks also. No water. Many plasma machines use N2
not air. Plasma creates instant steam and it blasts the beam wide and
cools it as well giving a poor and sloppy cut edge.




This facility compresses air into a liquid, then it boils off each
gas to separate them. The majority of the oxygen is fed to the AK steel
mill a couple miles away, but they also supply hospitals with oxygen.

They also sell the rare gases that were mixed into the air, for
industrial use.

The reduction towers are huge, and the pumps are noisy. I used to
live near it, and I was involved in the upgrade when the sections of new
towers were transported from the Ohio river, through our cable TV
system. Each piece was moved on a 40 axle, 4,000HP crawler with a top
speed of five MPH. The assembly was done in England, since no place in
the US could transport that weight on existing roads and bridges. It
would have been in many smaller sections, and taken at least two more
years to add the needed Oxygen capacity.

,881m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x106f597f0d4863a3!8m2 !3d39.488846!4d-84.397463

--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)
  #19  
Old February 16th 17, 11:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,893
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

Oh sigh...

On 2/15/2017 10:16 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Wed, 15 Feb 2017
21:42:38 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
If you pump air into the medical OX with a cast iron pump with oil
in the rings - you send all sorts of crap from the pump. It also
picks up anything from the air it sucks in. Gas / Diesel / pollen .....
and pumps it into the tank. Lots of junk from the air. Guy painting
the building or out-gas paint...


And what you have is not a tank of oxygen.

This is a 'green' tank marked Oxygen for welding. One uses filters if
it must be cleaner. In a torch - Oxygen/Hydro... it doesn't matter.
If it did you would put a particle filter on it. Don't breathe this as
medical ox.


When medical OX is made, the pump is in a nylon pump and it squeezes the
oxygen by squeezing a hose from a series of filters into the tank.

It is like a scuba tank - can't just suck in the CO the pump puts out
into the tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - it comes from a welding supply
in a welding tank.


And it has nitrogen, co2, h2o, pollen and dust in it?

Oxygen tanks are percentage of pure OX. It will have other stuff in it
if 98% Ox. One never gets pure Ox in an iron/steel tank. It would have
to be glass lined and purged/cleaned every time.
Air isn't pure Ox. It is mostly Nitrogen. It has He in it as well.
All sorts of non OX is in air.


When I get an OX tank from a company - and it is for life/death it is
from the medical OX supplier.

And why if it is always 100% pure OX is there Medical grade ? It isn't
just medical grade container.


Water is sucked into the pump and into the tank / hose in real time.
It is kept out of OX for life.

OX is generated in chemical reactions in canisters for airplanes. Now
and then one catches fire and causes news on the TV.

N2 tanks are 'dry' tanks also. No water. Many plasma machines use N2
not air. Plasma creates instant steam and it blasts the beam wide and
cools it as well giving a poor and sloppy cut edge.




Martin

On 2/13/2017 11:14 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Sun, 12 Feb 2017
21:20:21 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The impurity is 'natural' from pumps and valves. In medical oxygen that
might feed through machines that are very expensive or feed a person
with 20% of their lung left, the air is FILTERED heavily.

At 10 or 20,000 feet with flights up to 80,000 one does not want
moisture in the air line. Simple as that.

I'm still confused.

What sort of 'impurities" can be in an oxygen environment? Okay,
water / humidity I can understand - it is "inert". But how did it get
in their in the first place? One would think that distilling Oxygen
out of the atmosphere would first remove the water.
Part of my confusion come from having dealt with the specs for
manufacturing medical equipment which would be part of the oxygen
system. "Not oil at all." Not before, not after, not during "Thou
shallt have no oil in the presence of the metal. Neither shall it be
on the tools thou useth. On the finished part is straight off."



Just like your plasma - water kills.

Think of a vacuum cleaner / shop vacuum - and then one with a Hepa
filter on it. What air do you breathe while you clean up with it ?

Martin


On 2/12/2017 8:39 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
So I got a cylinder from a friend, that is a Avox System 9700 series, 11.0 CU FT 1800 PSI. Which I really really like, but I am confuse about if I have to refill it which O2 should I use, what if I just can not get aviators oxygen?

Actually I just don't know much about this.

Can someone help me?

Oxygen is oxygen. And unless someone can explain why they are
adding an impurity to the tank, the rest is hand waving.

Adding "Aviation" or "Medical" (like "all natural" or "marine") to
the label merely means it is going to cost you more.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

  #20  
Old February 28th 17, 03:41 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,712
Default Aviators oxygen vs welding or medical oxygen.

Martin Eastburn on Thu, 16 Feb 2017
17:21:58 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Oh sigh...

On 2/15/2017 10:16 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Martin Eastburn on Wed, 15 Feb 2017
21:42:38 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
If you pump air into the medical OX with a cast iron pump with oil
in the rings - you send all sorts of crap from the pump. It also
picks up anything from the air it sucks in. Gas / Diesel / pollen .....
and pumps it into the tank. Lots of junk from the air. Guy painting
the building or out-gas paint...


And what you have is not a tank of oxygen.

This is a 'green' tank marked Oxygen for welding. One uses filters if
it must be cleaner. In a torch - Oxygen/Hydro... it doesn't matter.
If it did you would put a particle filter on it. Don't breathe this as
medical ox.


I'm still curious as to how one can have compounds in a 100% or
even 99.9% Oxy environment.


When medical OX is made, the pump is in a nylon pump and it squeezes the
oxygen by squeezing a hose from a series of filters into the tank.

It is like a scuba tank - can't just suck in the CO the pump puts out
into the tank.

When I get an OX tank from a company - it comes from a welding supply
in a welding tank.


And it has nitrogen, co2, h2o, pollen and dust in it?

Oxygen tanks are percentage of pure OX. It will have other stuff in it
if 98% Ox. One never gets pure Ox in an iron/steel tank.


I would expect that to be true. After all, iron oxidizes rather
well, and unfortunately, the oxides lack the structural integrity to
protect the un oxidized iron from exposure.

It would have
to be glass lined and purged/cleaned every time.
Air isn't pure Ox. It is mostly Nitrogen. It has He in it as well.
All sorts of non OX is in air.


There must be something to the magic of getting oxygen into tanks
which I'm missing.



When I get an OX tank from a company - and it is for life/death it is
from the medical OX supplier.

And why if it is always 100% pure OX is there Medical grade ? It isn't
just medical grade container.



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
 




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