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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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Rising machine tool prices
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 07:47:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: 1/8" steel appears to be the limit for the Enco 8" bench shear, and it distorts one side. If you are shearing a strip from a large sheet the strip may have to be on the distorted side. Do you have the fence/foot for it? If not, consider making one. I've used them with and without, and WITH is the way to go. No more bent stock (or shears!) Yes, it has the foot. If I keep the blade sharp and the pivot tight it isn't really necessary for thinner metal. Hammers and dollies are your friends, too, where applicable. Oh yes, I've made costume armor and fitted a large watertight rust patch at the complex junction of a rear fender well and strut tower. However I'm just an amateur. I'll let those who knock tin for a living give the advice on it. -jsw |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Rising machine tool prices
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 08:48:41 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:47:01 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ................ http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-air-shears.html Is 18ga a casually suggested or actual maximum for sheet thickness? Salesmen usually oversell specs. The 22 gauge pool column steel was difficult to cut with a hand model, more from slipping out than the cutting force. I don't remember how I cut the approximately 18 gauge stainless for the bucket of my loader, Jig or recip saw? maybe the 8" Enco shear? I don't have any mild steel in that thickness. A 24TPI blade in the 4" x 6" bandsaw cuts thicker sheet metal well enough. Yeah, if the piece is small enough that you can get it into the machine. The companies I built equipment for chose 0.062" and 0.093" 6061 aluminum for electronic enclosures. I bought 0.050" 5052 for my hobby work because 0.062" strains the 3-in-1, and most recently used unlabelled 0.031 to fold a box. It cuts and bends like 6061 rather than the flimsy aluminum in a Bud chassis, which had mistakenly convinced me that 0.031 was too thin. The only minor problem is that my stock of PEM nuts was salvaged from 0.062" scrap and they protrude slightly through the 0.031". The flange can be bent back a little to make the visible edges close flush. Huh? How in the heck do you salvage PEM nuts? Do you reuse pop rivets, too? bseg I'm thinking Type F, which was used in the aluminum cases at Southcom, Intl's manpack radio accessories. http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/nuts-for-sheet-metal Are we on the same page here? I can't figure out how you'd unclinch one. The body men where I used to work used air chisels and either electric or air shears like the above. The chisel bits worked well on thin sheet like fenders and 1/4 panels. Hover over the 3rd one down: http://tinyurl.com/h3xmoun I've used one to cut patch material from a scrap fender, so I wouldn't have to shape the wheelwell flare from a flat sheet. I think it's overly aggressive to cut out a small rust area near an edge. Yeah, the body guys primarily used them for removal of material. The new quarterpanel was often cut to fit with the air/elec shears. I liked watching them flange, spotweld, and lead-in the welded area. Isn't rust/hole removal easily enough handled with a 4-1/2" grinder? Oh, and a blue sharpie to do the layout. Have you seen or used the Beverly style throatless air shears from HF? I just saw them online. http://tinyurl.com/hpejdn8 I've used a bench mounted Beverly shear at work. IIRC it distorted the metal a little too much for flat control panels someone else paid me to make but would have been fine for auto body repair. A warped control panel can break meter bezels and pull out molded-in mounting screws. Press flat or hammer and dolly. As long as the distortion isn't excessive that the hammer/press-die marks would show. Masking tape takes a lot of the danger out of that, though. I always tried to make my sheet metal work look as professional as my soldering. The Enco 8" bench shear leaves one side straight. Often good enough, especially if the scrap side is small. The steel of the uprights and top rail from the pool is a good balance between stiffness and workability and the coating stands up pretty well to a planishing hammer. The wall is thinner and easier to bend with hand tools. Was that the skirting and frame for a pool, or the actual pool? It was an above ground pool that bulged from freezing after the winter air bags deflated. I sheared the wall into manageable sections that now protect my woodsheds from brush/leaf fires. The thicker columns and top rail sections are slowly disappearing into projects like splash guards around the bottoms of the sheds and a closable box I can neatly scoop the woodstove fire into to carry it outside and separate the ash buildup from the hot charcoal without having to let the fire die down as far. Shoveling the hot coals into a pail releases too much ash and smoke. The custom box fits the door opening closely enough that the draft draws the ash back in. Cool! Well done. Ash dust is nastyass stuff, both to clean up and to breathe. I bent the 2" wide decorative strips of wall metal that faced the columns into U channels to rim 2' x 4' fireproof ceiling tiles to make a generator sound dampening enclosure. Their unprotected edges shred easily, otherwise they make good high temperature insulation with some structural strength. A propane torch flame merely darkens the surface. The wall metal is thin enough to bend by clamping between wood planks and hammering down on a block that spreads the force and tightens the fold. I have yet to take the old carpet and make a sound dampening enclosure for my compressor. That's a woodworking, not a metalworking project, though. Ply and carpet make a damned good sound deadener for most frequencies. Wood stops the low/mids and carpet absorbs the mid/highs. I need to deepen the shelf density in my shop so I can get enough floor space to fit a small mill. I'm tired of deer paths and stepping -over- stuff. sigh -- There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American.* The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house. --Theodore Roosevelt |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Rising machine tool prices
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 08:48:41 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:47:01 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ................ http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-air-shears.html Is 18ga a casually suggested or actual maximum for sheet thickness? Salesmen usually oversell specs. The 22 gauge pool column steel was difficult to cut with a hand model, more from slipping out than the cutting force. I don't remember how I cut the approximately 18 gauge stainless for the bucket of my loader, Jig or recip saw? maybe the 8" Enco shear? I don't have any mild steel in that thickness. A 24TPI blade in the 4" x 6" bandsaw cuts thicker sheet metal well enough. Yeah, if the piece is small enough that you can get it into the machine. On the left side there's about 2-1/2" clearance to the frame, plenty of allowance for a rough cut with a grinder or torch. On the right I support the sheet with a hydraulic lift table so my hands are only guiding the cut and I can let go to shut off the power. The metal I buy new is within the capacity of my equipment, 6" for the saw and 30" for the shear. .....The only minor problem is that my stock of PEM nuts was salvaged from 0.062" scrap and they protrude slightly through the 0.031". The flange can be bent back a little to make the visible edges close flush. Huh? How in the heck do you salvage PEM nuts? Do you reuse pop rivets, too? bseg I'm thinking Type F, which was used in the aluminum cases at Southcom, Intl's manpack radio accessories. http://catalog.pemnet.com/category/nuts-for-sheet-metal Are we on the same page here? I can't figure out how you'd unclinch one. Insert a screw part way from the back, place the PEM/Southco insert over a hole in a bench block and tap the screw head with a hammer. The taller round ones remove easily, the hex flush Type F ones are a little more difficult but they don't interfere as much with repurposing the metal for something else. The body men where I used to work used air chisels and either electric or air shears like the above. The chisel bits worked well on thin sheet like fenders and 1/4 panels. Hover over the 3rd one down: http://tinyurl.com/h3xmoun I've used one to cut patch material from a scrap fender, so I wouldn't have to shape the wheelwell flare from a flat sheet. I think it's overly aggressive to cut out a small rust area near an edge. Yeah, the body guys primarily used them for removal of material. The new quarterpanel was often cut to fit with the air/elec shears. I liked watching them flange, spotweld, and lead-in the welded area. Isn't rust/hole removal easily enough handled with a 4-1/2" grinder? Oh, and a blue sharpie to do the layout. I usually fix rust before it gets big enough for a flanged patch, although I do have the flanging tool and a set of Clecos. I trace around the patch, trim the hole to the line, then hold the patch in place with magnets while tack-welding. Have you seen or used the Beverly style throatless air shears from HF? I just saw them online. http://tinyurl.com/hpejdn8 I've used a bench mounted Beverly shear at work. IIRC it distorted the metal a little too much for flat control panels someone else paid me to make but would have been fine for auto body repair. A warped control panel can break meter bezels and pull out molded-in mounting screws. Press flat or hammer and dolly. As long as the distortion isn't excessive that the hammer/press-die marks would show. Masking tape takes a lot of the danger out of that, though. I always tried to make my sheet metal work look as professional as my soldering. My workmanship was good enough to show to a customer, which helped get me promoted into engineering over techs who beat out their sheet metal mistakes with a hammer. The steel of the uprights and top rail from the pool is a good balance between stiffness and workability and the coating stands up pretty well to a planishing hammer. The wall is thinner and easier to bend with hand tools. Was that the skirting and frame for a pool, or the actual pool? It was an above ground pool that bulged from freezing after the winter air bags deflated. I sheared the wall into manageable sections that now protect my woodsheds from brush/leaf fires. The thicker columns and top rail sections are slowly disappearing into projects like splash guards around the bottoms of the sheds and a closable box I can neatly scoop the woodstove fire into to carry it outside and separate the ash buildup from the hot charcoal without having to let the fire die down as far. Shoveling the hot coals into a pail releases too much ash and smoke. The custom box fits the door opening closely enough that the draft draws the ash back in. Cool! Well done. Ash dust is nastyass stuff, both to clean up and to breathe. I bent the 2" wide decorative strips of wall metal that faced the columns into U channels to rim 2' x 4' fireproof ceiling tiles to make a generator sound dampening enclosure. Their unprotected edges shred easily, otherwise they make good high temperature insulation with some structural strength. A propane torch flame merely darkens the surface. The wall metal is thin enough to bend by clamping between wood planks and hammering down on a block that spreads the force and tightens the fold. I have yet to take the old carpet and make a sound dampening enclosure for my compressor. That's a woodworking, not a metalworking project, though. Ply and carpet make a damned good sound deadener for most frequencies. Wood stops the low/mids and carpet absorbs the mid/highs. We used carpet scraps to quiet the sound of walking on raised theatre set platforms. If the "Bus Stop" lunch counter could hold a row of burly carpenters making like Rockettes, it was safe for the actress with the Marilyn Monroe part to dance on. |
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