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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. They offer to forward my question to other customers. WTF? I've even been queried on products I've ordered but didn't yet arrive. "What is the volume of that spray bottle?" Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't something like that be in the description? And, how much faith should you have in another customers' answer? I think I will answer: 25 liters. Moving out of shop stuff, I wanted to buy a shoulder travel bag. There are never photos of accessories like this on a person or even a dummy, so even with some basic dimensions, you can't get a good idea of what you are buying.
Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:43:03 -0800, robobass wrote:
This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. They offer to forward my question to other customers. WTF? I've even been queried on products I've ordered but didn't yet arrive. "What is the volume of that spray bottle?" Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't something like that be in the description? And, how much faith should you have in another customers' answer? I think I will answer: 25 liters. Moving out of shop stuff, I wanted to buy a shoulder travel bag. There are never photos of accessories like this on a person or even a dummy, so even with some basic dimensions, you can't get a good idea of what you are buying. Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? Sounds like a business opportunity. Start with things that Amazon does a particularly poor job of selling, and go from there. -- Tim Wescott Control systems, embedded software and circuit design I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:43:03 -0800 (PST), robobass
wrote: This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. They offer to forward my question to other customers. WTF? I've even been queried on products I've ordered but didn't yet arrive. "What is the volume of that spray bottle?" Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't something like that be in the description? And, how much faith should you have in another customers' answer? I think I will answer: 25 liters. Moving out of shop stuff, I wanted to buy a shoulder travel bag. There are never photos of accessories like this on a person or even a dummy, so even with some basic dimensions, you can't get a good idea of what you are buying. Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? You need abrasives? Best supplier Ive ever found http://www.barbkat.com/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM UTC+1, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:43:03 -0800 (PST), robobass wrote: This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. They offer to forward my question to other customers. WTF? I've even been queried on products I've ordered but didn't yet arrive. "What is the volume of that spray bottle?" Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't something like that be in the description? And, how much faith should you have in another customers' answer? I think I will answer: 25 liters. Moving out of shop stuff, I wanted to buy a shoulder travel bag. There are never photos of accessories like this on a person or even a dummy, so even with some basic dimensions, you can't get a good idea of what you are buying. Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? You need abrasives? Best supplier Ive ever found http://www.barbkat.com/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Barbkat. Never heard of them. They are not far from where I grew up! |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 23:30:30 -0800 (PST), robobass
wrote: On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM UTC+1, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:43:03 -0800 (PST), robobass wrote: This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. They offer to forward my question to other customers. WTF? I've even been queried on products I've ordered but didn't yet arrive. "What is the volume of that spray bottle?" Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't something like that be in the description? And, how much faith should you have in another customers' answer? I think I will answer: 25 liters. Moving out of shop stuff, I wanted to buy a shoulder travel bag. There are never photos of accessories like this on a person or even a dummy, so even with some basic dimensions, you can't get a good idea of what you are buying. Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? You need abrasives? Best supplier Ive ever found http://www.barbkat.com/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Barbkat. Never heard of them. They are not far from where I grew up! Check her out. Great prices, very good materials, you can get 2 from column A and 3 from column B --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On 2016-11-15, robobass wrote:
This may be less of a problem in the USA, but I live in Germany, where there is no Harbor Freight, McMaster, or MSC, so I am especially reliant on Ebay (which is actually pretty good at picking up the slack) and Amazon. FWIW -- I believe that MSC still sells overseas. It is a problem for those who live in Canada, because the shipping is via UPS, which insists on proxying the customs -- whether there should be customs duty or not. :-( This tends to run the cost up. Not sure what it is like in Germany. But McMaster Carr just plain *won't* sell to individually in other countries, for whatever reason. Amazon is so poor at describing their wares, however, that I find it ludicrous. I need a wide aluminum dustpan for the shop, for example. The choices on Amazon give me neither the size, nor a way to contact the seller to ask. I *think* that Amazon assumes that you have already looked at the product at a local store, and are looking for a less expensive way to purchase it. [ ... ] Ebay, on the other hand, has been my salvation, I like Klingspor sandpaper, for example. Even though it is made here, if you call them, they will refer you to a seller in your area. If the seller doesn't stock what you want, then tough luck. Now there are Ebay sellers out there who will provide me with the products I want, and at a good price! And this goes for anything from rubber gloves to carbide endmills. eBay started out with *individuals* selling used things -- likely things no longer made-- so good photos and good descriptions were pretty much required. While there are now a lot of commercial vendors there, the description process is still the same. I don't understand Amazon's reasoning for this practice, but it is certainly a strategy. My guess is that it is as described above -- they think that you've already looked at it in a store, so you know what it is. And it is up to the actual vendor to handle descriptions -- and many of those are set up for walk-in purchases, and offer through Amazon to allo them to move things which are slow in their inventory. It's nice that they deliver so fast and take back what you don't want, but why ship you stuff that you wouldn't have ordered in the first place had they described it properly? And, why forgo the sales on products I didn't order because I didn't have enough information? Again -- they think that you can walk into a store and look -- and don't take into account that you may not be in the same country. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
Again -- they think that you can walk into a store and look -- and don't take into account that you may not be in the same country. Don, I don't think that's it at all. Amazon is huge. I believe they are now the world's largest retailer. Large enough that they have distribution centers in most regions of the world, and multiples in larger (geographically) countries for logistical reasons. They face local legal, logistical, and cultural issues just like a locallly owned business in many regions of the world. They are very much aware of where there customers are buying from. I think its an expansion of an old bit of sales wisdom. If you give the "average" customer to much information to process you lose the sale. They can't decided. Its like offering your customer to many options. They walk away to think about it. I grew up in retail and learned that lesson first hand when showing customers bits of merchandise from behind the behind the counter or in the display cases. If you just show them what they ask to see you more often make the sale. Sure you might upsell them for a larger sale if you show them something nicer, but the percentages say you will lose more than you gain if you give them to much to process. Its not universal of course. Technical customers want to know the specs, pros, and cons of an item, but Amazon is not geared to the technical customer. They are geared to the average customer. \ |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
" I *think* that Amazon assumes that you have already looked at
the product at a local store, and are looking for a less expensive way to purchase it." Don, I think this idea has some validity, but only goes so far. Here, at least, it's often the case that the product is not any cheaper at Amazon, but they get the sale anyway because the customer can save himself a shopping trip. If you lived in Cologne, or any dense urban environment, you would especially appreciate this. I drove all the time before I moved to Germany, but nowadays I use the car pretty much exclusively for weekend pleasure excursions. Besides that, Amazon is trying to offer more than what you can already buy in a brick and mortars, whose assortments are shrinking anyway as a result of competition from Amazon. In Germany especially, we don't have the specialty catalogs like McMaster, and the small specialty shops for tinkers like me have disappeared. Amazon does try to capitalize on this, selling everything from auto parts to buffing compounds, but they seem to suffer from the mindset that Bob mentions - Don't offer too many details or options. (Bob, "too" is a word. "to" is a different word!) Ebay. Yes, it started out as a way to get rid of your unwanted collection of "Mamma's Family" VHS tapes, but fortunately for me, lot's of entrepreneurs out there have recognized the hole in modern retailing, and found Ebay to be a perfect vehicle to sell all kinds of obscure industrial supplies that I simply couldn't get otherwise, and they are not hidebound by corporate inertia. Nowadays I still need to source a few things from McMaster, mainly because I use an inch thread for my product, which I don't want to change. I have to find friends who are traveling to and from the States to bring the stuff to me. Mailing from the States is a disaster. Very expensive, first of all, and then we have a very diligent customs office. You generally pay 35% in duty, the calculation including shipping costs. Another funny thing is that small items are exempt, so there is a lot of stuff now on German Ebay which comes directly from China. It takes four weeks, but if you can wait you save at least half. |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 03:03:07 -0800 (PST), robobass
wrote: " I *think* that Amazon assumes that you have already looked at the product at a local store, and are looking for a less expensive way to purchase it." Don, I think this idea has some validity, but only goes so far. Here, at least, it's often the case that the product is not any cheaper at Amazon, but they get the sale anyway because the customer can save himself a shopping trip. If you lived in Cologne, or any dense urban environment, you would especially appreciate this. Yes, one of the best incentives to a lot of people is that for $79 (now $99) per year, you can join Amazon Prime and get free 2-day delivery (in the US) on everything you purchase through them. I have found better pricing on almost everything at Amazon and have been a Prime member for a decade or so now. If I could have found everything I wanted locally, I likely would have paid over $500 in fuel costs and potentially paid 1.5x the overall price each year. Trips to town and back usually take 20 minutes travel time and 15 minutes per store (I'm an extremely efficient buyer.), so I save time shopping online. About 60% of things I want aren't even available locally. I drove all the time before I moved to Germany, but nowadays I use the car pretty much exclusively for weekend pleasure excursions. Besides that, Amazon is trying to offer more than what you can already buy in a brick and mortars, whose assortments are shrinking anyway as a result of competition from Amazon. In Germany especially, we don't have the specialty catalogs like McMaster, and the small specialty shops for tinkers like me have disappeared. Amazon does try to capitalize on this, selling everything from auto parts to buffing compounds, but they seem to suffer from the mindset that Bob mentions - Don't offer too many details or options. As someone already said, Amazon leaves the description and header up to the vendor to put up. eBay vendors have the same problem. They are mom and pop stores and don't know diddly squat about 99% of the products they sell, so they rely on an indifferent manufacturer who likely doesn't pay their sales team enough to care to write out all the details. Hell, i've called manufacturers to get details and even they don't have them, so I have waited several weeks for a product engineer to get back to me. They curse the company's lack of foresight as strongly as I have. shrug I'm currently trying to get info on a Figo Atrium 5.5 phone, and even the Amazon vendors and forum folks are tight lipped. For the record, the Posh Equal 7" phablet is not back- pocketable. Yes, I heard the dreaded "tink" sound on the way to town and when I tried it in the store while waiting for the clerk to bring out another box of veggies, I turned on a rainbow-cracked mess. Hence, the Atrium screen durability search. Surprisingly, Posh didn't warrant the screen but Amazon did. Who can be angry with Amazon with a customer service policy like that? (Bob, "too" is a word. "to" is a different word!) Thank you for saying it for me. Ebay. Yes, it started out as a way to get rid of your unwanted collection of "Mamma's Family" VHS tapes, but fortunately for me, lot's of entrepreneurs out there have recognized the hole in modern retailing, and found Ebay to be a perfect vehicle to sell all kinds of obscure industrial supplies that I simply couldn't get otherwise, and they are not hidebound by corporate inertia. Yes, thank Crom! Nowadays I still need to source a few things from McMaster, mainly because I use an inch thread for my product, which I don't want to change. I have to find friends who are traveling to and from the States to bring the stuff to me. Mailing from the States is a disaster. Very expensive, first of all, and then we have a very diligent customs office. You generally pay 35% in duty, the calculation including shipping costs. Another funny thing is that small items are exempt, so there is a lot of stuff now on German Ebay which comes directly from China. It takes four weeks, but if you can wait you save at least half. Save up to 90%. I see exactly the same Chinese products online and shelved locally for $10-14.99 which I got from a Chinese vendor for $0.74 ($0.99CAD) to $0.99USD with free subsidised shipping. Same products sourced in the USA from an eBay vendor cost $3.99, with zero to $3.49 shipping. So if it's not available locally when I need it now, I can either get it through a more local eBay store, McMaster, or Amazon within the week, or wait until it slow-boats over from Shenzen, depending on availability. Home Depot gives free shipping to store, so I ordered a water heater on Nov 05. It will be here on the 23rd. I wonder if Rheem is outsourcing now, too... If you want expensive shipping, move to Australia. _Product_ costs are usually less than the cost of shipping to or from there. (Right, Jon?) I wonder how much of that is duty. -- I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned, but it is not greed to want take someone else's money. --Thomas Sowell |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
"robobass" wrote in message
news:6105cb48-d167-4eb3-8b4b- (Bob, "too" is a word. "to" is a different word!) So is "two" and "tu", but tu is a bit to familiar. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 9:13:19 PM UTC+1, Bob La Londe wrote:
"robobass" wrote in message news:6105cb48-d167-4eb3-8b4b- (Bob, "too" is a word. "to" is a different word!) So is "two" and "tu", but tu is a bit to familiar. Yes. You can say "Tu" in Madrid most of the time, but be careful in Seville! In Germany you can be fined for saying "Du" to a cop. Writing "to" when you mean "too" doesn't cause an inadvertent insult, but it does rub some feathers for some of us. Back there in the primordial part of our brain somewhere, at least... |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Is anyone as annoyed as me with Amazon?
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
news "robobass" wrote in message news:6105cb48-d167-4eb3-8b4b- (Bob, "too" is a word. "to" is a different word!) So is "two" and "tu", but tu is a bit to familiar. Thus thinkest thou? |
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