Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,163
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.
Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded well
the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc width
change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the pulse
feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use the pulse
feature but I can see how it will be great for thin stuff. The high
frequency start function works well, it will throw an arc about 5/8
inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty good
one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the flexible
head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the gas
flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right away.
Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.
The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a slight
delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A couple
times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc started really
hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to the
machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay so it
will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to trigger the
time delay relay.
Eric
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 09:50:33 -0700, wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.
Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded well
the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc width
change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the pulse
feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use the pulse
feature but I can see how it will be great for thin stuff. The high
frequency start function works well, it will throw an arc about 5/8
inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty good
one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the flexible
head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the gas
flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right away.
Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.
The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a slight
delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A couple
times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc started really
hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to the
machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay so it
will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to trigger the
time delay relay.
Eric

]

Thanks for the review! That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 09:50:33 -0700, wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.


Are you referring to ewe-tubular reviews, Eric?


Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded well
the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc width
change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the pulse
feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use the pulse
feature but I can see how it will be great for thin stuff. The high
frequency start function works well, it will throw an arc about 5/8
inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty good
one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the flexible
head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the gas
flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right away.
Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?


The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a slight
delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A couple
times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc started really
hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to the
machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay so it
will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to trigger the
time delay relay.
Eric

]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,115
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 09:50:33 -0700, wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.


Are you referring to ewe-tubular reviews, Eric?


Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded
well the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc
width change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the
pulse feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use
the pulse feature but I can see how it will be great for thin
stuff. The high frequency start function works well, it will throw
an arc about 5/8 inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty
good one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the
flexible head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the
gas flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right
away. Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?


The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a
slight delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A
couple times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc
started really hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to
the machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay
so it will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to
trigger the time delay relay.
Eric

]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


You're right about the gas pre-flow delaying the arc . The pre is to give
the arc some ionized (by the HF) gas to help start as well as shield . The
after is to prevent oxidation as the weld cools . I think the gas lens setup
gives better shielding with less gas than standard cups , at least it seems
that way for me . Also , Jody has some excellent videos on all those
controls and what they do .
The Everlast EX250 I got a couple of years ago has all those bells and
whistles , and his videos have been a really big help to me on how to use
them . It also came with both a new water cooled and a used air cooled
torch that they tossed in for free . I still haven't used the water cooled
one ... but I'm pretty sure the pre flow delay is set by the machine and not
the torch .
--
Snag


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,584
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On 2016-10-01, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


[ ... ]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh


Actually -- if your Harbor Freight TIG is like mine it *does*
have DC. What it does not have is polarity reversal and pulsing to
allow it to work well with aluminum.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On 1 Oct 2016 03:36:28 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-10-01, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


[ ... ]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh


Actually -- if your Harbor Freight TIG is like mine it *does*
have DC. What it does not have is polarity reversal and pulsing to
allow it to work well with aluminum.


Yup.

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod
  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:50:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 09:50:33 -0700, wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.


Are you referring to ewe-tubular reviews, Eric?


Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded well
the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc width
change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the pulse
feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use the pulse
feature but I can see how it will be great for thin stuff. The high
frequency start function works well, it will throw an arc about 5/8
inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty good
one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the flexible
head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the gas
flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right away.
Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?


The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a slight
delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A couple
times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc started really
hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to the
machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay so it
will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to trigger the
time delay relay.
Eric

]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh


"Post arc delay" has nothing to do with the weld. Lift your foot off
the pedal and the arch shuts off..yet the gas continues to run for X
seconds.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


Water cooled machines can set that time from 0-60 seconds (most of
them) and its used to cool off the electrode/torch after the weld.
With most water cooled torches and power ranges of the average hobby
shop...its mostly not needed. Pure Tungsten electrodes might benefit
from it..but any others...nah...Id not worry about them.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,984
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 12:30:25 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:




"Post arc delay" has nothing to do with the weld. Lift your foot off
the pedal and the arch shuts off..yet the gas continues to run for X
seconds.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


Water cooled machines can set that time from 0-60 seconds (most of
them) and its used to cool off the electrode/torch after the weld.
With most water cooled torches and power ranges of the average hobby
shop...its mostly not needed. Pure Tungsten electrodes might benefit
from it..but any others...nah...Id not worry about them.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I agree the post arc flow helps to cool the torch, but that is not the reason for it. If the gas stopped flowing the instant the arc stopped, the torch would not get hotter. There is no energy being used when the arc is off.. The post flow is to keep the weld and the tungsten in inert gas while the weld and tungsten cool enough that they do not oxidise. If you want to see the effect on the weld, just whip the torch away from the weld the instant the arc extinguishes.

Dan

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,163
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:15:43 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:11:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 09:50:33 -0700, wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.


Are you referring to ewe-tubular reviews, Eric?


Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems. I fidled with the AC balance and the default 75% setting
works great. I did try the 90% setting and even though it welded
well the weld appearance was not so good, not shiny. Played with the
frequency setting and it was really interesting to watch the arc
width change. I didn't weld much with the DC but did try out the
pulse feature. It is obvious that I will need too learn how to use
the pulse feature but I can see how it will be great for thin
stuff. The high frequency start function works well, it will throw
an arc about 5/8 inch.
I have a few small gripes. It uses an air cooled torch and comes
with regular, not gas lens, cups and so on. The torch is a pretty
good one for an air cooled torch, a model PTA-17F. It has the
flexible head.
I bought gas lens stuff for the torch when I bought the welder. My
first welds were made on steel with the standard cup setup and the
gas flow I usually use with gas lenses. I noticed porosity right
away. Changing to a gas lens and the porosity went away and the weld
appearance improved greatly.


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?


The post flow is about 5 seconds and cannot be adjusted. This must
be to cool the torch.
The pedal doesn't have the same feel as the old heavy one for the
Miller welder so I am not sure when I have stepped on it enough to
start the welder. This wouldn't be a problem except there is a
slight delay between stepping on the gas and the arc initiation. A
couple times I didn't think I pressed far enough and the arc
started really hot.
After welding stops if the pedal is pressed right away there is
that damned delay. Another small gripe but I will get used to it.
I am going to make up a water cooling adapter for when the welder
is used in the shop as well as adding a post flow time external to
the machine. I already have the right adjustable time delay relay
so it will be pretty easy (I think) to use the pedal switch to
trigger the time delay relay.
Eric
]

Thanks for the review!


Yes, interesting review.


That 5 second post cool is very important on
a air cooled torch. Remember you are not just cooling the torch, but
the hose/electrode as well. And it can get prettttty warm at the
higher ranges..so you have to pump some gas at it to try to get it
cool.


Newb here. Aren't the delay, and the resultant flow of gas while the
weld cools, necessary to keep the weld from getting brittle? Even my
little $200 Harbor Freight TIG has that post-arc time delay before the
gas shuts off. Wish it had DC and high-freq start. sigh

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


You're right about the gas pre-flow delaying the arc . The pre is to give
the arc some ionized (by the HF) gas to help start as well as shield . The
after is to prevent oxidation as the weld cools . I think the gas lens setup
gives better shielding with less gas than standard cups , at least it seems
that way for me . Also , Jody has some excellent videos on all those
controls and what they do .
The Everlast EX250 I got a couple of years ago has all those bells and
whistles , and his videos have been a really big help to me on how to use
them . It also came with both a new water cooled and a used air cooled
torch that they tossed in for free . I still haven't used the water cooled
one ... but I'm pretty sure the pre flow delay is set by the machine and not
the torch .

My old TIG welder is a Miller Gold Star. It has a post flow timer but
no pre flow timer. Typically I just mash the pedal when first starting
a weld in order to push all the air out of the torch gas line. The
post flow is set long enough to keep the tungsten from turning blue.
When I am welding a lot of passes I usuallyhave things set up so I can
stop one pass and start the next pass during the post flow time.
Whenever I need a longer post flow I just tap the pedal. The gas
lenses really save on gas use, about half actually. When I get the
water cooled torch adapter made I will also be installing a post flow
timer.
Eric
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,163
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 05:39:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 12:30:25 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:




"Post arc delay" has nothing to do with the weld. Lift your foot off
the pedal and the arch shuts off..yet the gas continues to run for X
seconds.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


Water cooled machines can set that time from 0-60 seconds (most of
them) and its used to cool off the electrode/torch after the weld.
With most water cooled torches and power ranges of the average hobby
shop...its mostly not needed. Pure Tungsten electrodes might benefit
from it..but any others...nah...Id not worry about them.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I agree the post arc flow helps to cool the torch, but that is not the reason for it. If the gas stopped flowing the instant the arc stopped, the torch would not get hotter. There is no energy being used when the arc is off. The post flow is to keep the weld and the tungsten in inert gas while the weld and tungsten cool enough that they do not oxidise. If you want to see the effect on the weld, just whip the torch away from the weld the instant the arc extinguishes.

Dan

The air cooled torch takes longer to cool so the tungsten stays hot
longer which is why I think the post flow is longer than I need for my
water cooled torch. As it is now it is longer than needed for weld
protection.
Eric
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,384
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

Tim Wescott wrote:



If I'm not mistaken, it's not that the work won't get hot enough to glow,
it's that aluminum is never emissive enough in the visible wavelengths
for it to glow. If you watch aluminum casting, you'll see that the
crucible is glowing a dull red, even though the aluminum inside is
shiny. If the aluminum were "black" (meaning, if it were emissive), it'd
be glowing that same dull red.

Hmmm! Very interesting! Well, aluminum has a high specific heat, so it
takes a lot of energy to raise the temp. So, it is possible that the
crucible gets hotter than the melt. I've watched some guys do aluminum
pours, and if you get the aluminum too hot, you get a lot of dross, so that
is to be avoided. Also, when welding, you want the work JUST hot enough to
fuse. Get it too hot, and it ends up on the floor. Due to the high thermal
conductivity of aluminum, the range between welding and melting the whole
piece is REALLY small. Much harder than with steel, for instance.

Jon


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,384
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

Larry Jaques wrote:


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?

The standard cupo produces turbulent mixing with the surrounding air. The
gas lens produces minimum turbulence, so that air is not introduced near the
electrode. If you hold the torch so a stong light makes a shadow on a wall,
you can easily see the flow of argon, and see the difference in how smoothly
a gas lens flows out of the cup.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head

My Lincoln Square Wave TIG has adjustable pre-flow and post-flow timer
settings. The gas valve is in the WELDER, not the cooler, so it is a welder
function. So, it wouldn't care about the torch cooling. I have only used a
water-cooled torch. I can't imagine air-cooled can be used at high current,
the electrode gets WAYY hotter than the work.

Jon
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,163
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 14:48:14 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?

The standard cupo produces turbulent mixing with the surrounding air. The
gas lens produces minimum turbulence, so that air is not introduced near the
electrode. If you hold the torch so a stong light makes a shadow on a wall,
you can easily see the flow of argon, and see the difference in how smoothly
a gas lens flows out of the cup.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head

My Lincoln Square Wave TIG has adjustable pre-flow and post-flow timer
settings. The gas valve is in the WELDER, not the cooler, so it is a welder
function. So, it wouldn't care about the torch cooling. I have only used a
water-cooled torch. I can't imagine air-cooled can be used at high current,
the electrode gets WAYY hotter than the work.

Jon

Air cooled (actually GAS cooled) torches are available for use up to
300 amps. I used to have one. My new welder came with a gas cooled
torch good for 200 amps. I exceeded the duty cycle for a 200 amp gas
cooled that I used to own. I had been welding aluminum at the time. On
several occasions I had done this, gotten the torch so hot I could
only hold on to the very end of the torch handle. The last straw was
when, as I was welding, the weld quality started to suffer and I
noticed a strange burning smell. Flipping up the hood I saw that the
torch was smoking. Smoke was pouring out of the cup as well as off of
the outside. That's when I switched to water cooling.
Eric
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On 01/10/16 21:23, wrote:
On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 14:48:14 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


Were you using less or more gas with the standard cup?

The standard cupo produces turbulent mixing with the surrounding air. The
gas lens produces minimum turbulence, so that air is not introduced near the
electrode. If you hold the torch so a stong light makes a shadow on a wall,
you can easily see the flow of argon, and see the difference in how smoothly
a gas lens flows out of the cup.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head

My Lincoln Square Wave TIG has adjustable pre-flow and post-flow timer
settings. The gas valve is in the WELDER, not the cooler, so it is a welder
function. So, it wouldn't care about the torch cooling. I have only used a
water-cooled torch. I can't imagine air-cooled can be used at high current,
the electrode gets WAYY hotter than the work.

Jon

Air cooled (actually GAS cooled) torches are available for use up to
300 amps. I used to have one. My new welder came with a gas cooled
torch good for 200 amps. I exceeded the duty cycle for a 200 amp gas
cooled that I used to own. I had been welding aluminum at the time. On
several occasions I had done this, gotten the torch so hot I could
only hold on to the very end of the torch handle. The last straw was
when, as I was welding, the weld quality started to suffer and I
noticed a strange burning smell. Flipping up the hood I saw that the
torch was smoking. Smoke was pouring out of the cup as well as off of
the outside. That's when I switched to water cooling.
Eric

I love my water cooled torch compared to the previous air cooled as it
is far more flexible in use due to the nature of the lead construction.
I have once seen a water cooled torch where the water cooled leads
failed, the torch was fine and the leads replaced, but the kiddy using
it found himself in a smoke cloud when the leads overheated and melted
letting out the smoke and water. The water cooler was fine but for some
reason the leads failed, maybe the welding unit, an old Miller
Synchrowave IIRC, was rated for more than the torch, I don't know, but
the leads were replaced and the welding station put back into service
after a day or 2 when new leads arrived.
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 05:39:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 12:30:25 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:




"Post arc delay" has nothing to do with the weld. Lift your foot off
the pedal and the arch shuts off..yet the gas continues to run for X
seconds.

Do machines with water cooled torches not have that delay?
tilts head


Water cooled machines can set that time from 0-60 seconds (most of
them) and its used to cool off the electrode/torch after the weld.
With most water cooled torches and power ranges of the average hobby
shop...its mostly not needed. Pure Tungsten electrodes might benefit
from it..but any others...nah...Id not worry about them.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I agree the post arc flow helps to cool the torch, but that is not the reason for it. If the gas stopped flowing the instant the arc stopped, the torch would not get hotter. There is no energy being used when the arc is off. The post flow is to keep the weld and the tungsten in inert gas while the weld and tungsten cool enough that they do not oxidise. If you want to see the effect on the weld, just whip the torch away from the weld the instant the arc extinguishes.

Dan


I do. I seldom let the torch linger over the weld after the gas is
off.

Its not so much to keep the torch from getting any hotter..its to keep
the torch from not being cooled enough for a few seconds after the
power is off.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 280
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 14:42:16 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:


Hmmm! Very interesting! Well, aluminum has a high specific heat, so it
takes a lot of energy to raise the temp. So, it is possible that the
crucible gets hotter than the melt.


Aluminum is also one of the highest thermally conductive materials so
the metal stays the same temperature as the crucible. Tim nailed the
cause - the extremely low emissivity of clean aluminum.

I've watched some guys do aluminum
pours, and if you get the aluminum too hot, you get a lot of dross, so that
is to be avoided.


My company (tnduction.com) is developing a line of tabletop induction
aluminum melters for sand casting so I've had a great deal of exposure
to molten aluminum alloys.

With clean feedstock and either inerting gas over the top of the
crucible or a covering flux, the metal stays bright and shiny
indefinitely. Of course the furnace has a PID controller to maintain
the desired melt temperature.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address



  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:26:17 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:42:39 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:57:04 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.
Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems.


That's very impressive! It took me a while to get the feel of doing
Aluminum. First problem is nobody told me the work NEVER got hot enough
to glow. Once I realized that bit of info from steel welding would not
be available, things went a bit better. I have a square wave TIG 300,
which is a fantastic machine, but large and heavy.

Gas lenses help reduce gas consumption, and Argon is getting pretty
pricey.

Jon


If I'm not mistaken, it's not that the work won't get hot enough to glow,
it's that aluminum is never emissive enough in the visible wavelengths
for it to glow. If you watch aluminum casting, you'll see that the
crucible is glowing a dull red, even though the aluminum inside is
shiny. If the aluminum were "black" (meaning, if it were emissive), it'd
be glowing that same dull red.


https://www.tinmantech.com/products/...lding-lens.php

The Tinman's lens is for cutting the yellow sodium flare from flux
when gas-welding aluminum. That flare completely obscures vision of
the weld zone. The TM2000 lens completely blocks that yellow flare,
greatly facilitating gas welding of aluminum.

Years ago weldors used cobalt blue lenses to block that sodium flare.
They didn't work as well at blocking the sodium flare. I can attest
to that; they were better than nothing, but not nearly as effective as
the green TM2000 lenses. More importantly, they did not adequately
protect the weldor from UV and IR rays. They are no longer used or
available.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On 13/10/16 02:20, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:26:17 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:42:39 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:57:04 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

So, after looking at tubular reviews I decided the TIG 200 was a
good buy.
Tried it out last night for the first time. Just on 120 volts. I
was able to weld .125 thick 6061 using 3/32 filler rod with no
problems.

That's very impressive! It took me a while to get the feel of doing
Aluminum. First problem is nobody told me the work NEVER got hot enough
to glow. Once I realized that bit of info from steel welding would not
be available, things went a bit better. I have a square wave TIG 300,
which is a fantastic machine, but large and heavy.

Gas lenses help reduce gas consumption, and Argon is getting pretty
pricey.

Jon
If I'm not mistaken, it's not that the work won't get hot enough to glow,
it's that aluminum is never emissive enough in the visible wavelengths
for it to glow. If you watch aluminum casting, you'll see that the
crucible is glowing a dull red, even though the aluminum inside is
shiny. If the aluminum were "black" (meaning, if it were emissive), it'd
be glowing that same dull red.

https://www.tinmantech.com/products/...lding-lens.php

The Tinman's lens is for cutting the yellow sodium flare from flux
when gas-welding aluminum. That flare completely obscures vision of
the weld zone. The TM2000 lens completely blocks that yellow flare,
greatly facilitating gas welding of aluminum.


I've seen this sodium flare issue mentioned many times but have never
actually experienced it when gas welding aluminium and using a standard
gas welding filter as used for OA welding of steel. Maybe the flux
formulation i have used in the UK differs from that in the US and it
doesn't produce the flare or maybe it's a problem when gas welding
aluminum but not aluminium as we have in the UK .


Years ago weldors used cobalt blue lenses to block that sodium flare.
They didn't work as well at blocking the sodium flare. I can attest
to that; they were better than nothing, but not nearly as effective as
the green TM2000 lenses. More importantly, they did not adequately
protect the weldor from UV and IR rays. They are no longer used or
available.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:16:37 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 13/10/16 02:20, Don Foreman wrote:
The Tinman's lens is for cutting the yellow sodium flare from flux
when gas-welding aluminum. That flare completely obscures vision of
the weld zone. The TM2000 lens completely blocks that yellow flare,
greatly facilitating gas welding of aluminum.


I've seen this sodium flare issue mentioned many times but have never
actually experienced it when gas welding aluminium and using a standard
gas welding filter as used for OA welding of steel. Maybe the flux
formulation i have used in the UK differs from that in the US and it
doesn't produce the flare or maybe it's a problem when gas welding
aluminum but not aluminium as we have in the UK .


Right you are, David. Proper spelling and pronunciation _seriously_
affect the intensity of the sodium flare in our two countries.

I've only seen aluminum tigged once, and I wasn't knowledgeable enough
to look for said flare. "I'd only seen Heliarc before that." he
flatly stated, in a high-pitched voice.


Years ago weldors used cobalt blue lenses to block that sodium flare.
They didn't work as well at blocking the sodium flare. I can attest
to that; they were better than nothing, but not nearly as effective as
the green TM2000 lenses. More importantly, they did not adequately
protect the weldor from UV and IR rays. They are no longer used or
available.


Interesting! Thanks for that, Don.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On 13/10/16 21:35, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:16:37 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 13/10/16 02:20, Don Foreman wrote:
The Tinman's lens is for cutting the yellow sodium flare from flux
when gas-welding aluminum. That flare completely obscures vision of
the weld zone. The TM2000 lens completely blocks that yellow flare,
greatly facilitating gas welding of aluminum.

I've seen this sodium flare issue mentioned many times but have never
actually experienced it when gas welding aluminium and using a standard
gas welding filter as used for OA welding of steel. Maybe the flux
formulation i have used in the UK differs from that in the US and it
doesn't produce the flare or maybe it's a problem when gas welding
aluminum but not aluminium as we have in the UK .

Right you are, David. Proper spelling and pronunciation _seriously_
affect the intensity of the sodium flare in our two countries.

I've only seen aluminum tigged once, and I wasn't knowledgeable enough
to look for said flare. "I'd only seen Heliarc before that." he
flatly stated, in a high-pitched voice.


We were not talking about TIG welding but gas welding aluminium where
apparently some experience sodium flare from the chemicals in the flux
used during the welding process to deal with the oxide on the aluminium
surface. TIG doesn't require a flux and so the flare isn't an issue
although the filter is darker and possibly stronger in UV and IR
filtering due to the electric arc being used to perform the weld.



Years ago weldors used cobalt blue lenses to block that sodium flare.
They didn't work as well at blocking the sodium flare. I can attest
to that; they were better than nothing, but not nearly as effective as
the green TM2000 lenses. More importantly, they did not adequately
protect the weldor from UV and IR rays. They are no longer used or
available.

Interesting! Thanks for that, Don.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke


  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Got me a Lincoln TIG 200

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 22:08:15 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 13/10/16 21:35, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:16:37 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 13/10/16 02:20, Don Foreman wrote:
The Tinman's lens is for cutting the yellow sodium flare from flux
when gas-welding aluminum. That flare completely obscures vision of
the weld zone. The TM2000 lens completely blocks that yellow flare,
greatly facilitating gas welding of aluminum.
I've seen this sodium flare issue mentioned many times but have never
actually experienced it when gas welding aluminium and using a standard
gas welding filter as used for OA welding of steel. Maybe the flux
formulation i have used in the UK differs from that in the US and it
doesn't produce the flare or maybe it's a problem when gas welding
aluminum but not aluminium as we have in the UK .

Right you are, David. Proper spelling and pronunciation _seriously_
affect the intensity of the sodium flare in our two countries.

I've only seen aluminum tigged once, and I wasn't knowledgeable enough
to look for said flare. "I'd only seen Heliarc before that." he
flatly stated, in a high-pitched voice.


We were not talking about TIG welding but gas welding aluminium where
apparently some experience sodium flare from the chemicals in the flux
used during the welding process to deal with the oxide on the aluminium
surface.


sigh You're right. I wasn't paying enough attention.


TIG doesn't require a flux and so the flare isn't an issue
although the filter is darker and possibly stronger in UV and IR
filtering due to the electric arc being used to perform the weld.


Let's hope they're darker, for their eyes' sake.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lincoln 175 SP question Steve B[_10_] Metalworking 0 March 27th 11 10:09 PM
Lincoln Tig 300 problems Ken Sterling[_2_] Metalworking 2 April 30th 08 07:42 PM
Lincoln Ranger 9? Gunner[_2_] Metalworking 12 December 21st 07 01:24 PM
FS. Lincoln Tig 250/250 Gunner Metalworking 40 January 10th 06 06:46 AM
Lincoln 185 tig [email protected] Metalworking 2 February 28th 05 02:05 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"