Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Catherine L. Cranche wrote:
On 9/16/2016 6:45 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

There , fixed that for you .


??? It's just the same as I wrote it. It was right the first time.



An now everybody knows that I *OWN* you , you can't NOT respond when I
post . Bitch .
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On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:06:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



I thought maybe you fabbed up a driver, but I hadn't even considered
that you'd have to do optical work. Cool.


I didn't do any optical work. The molded lenses are off-the-shelf for
$1.50.
http://www.ledsupply.com/led-optics/...spot-led-optic



Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.


Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.



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On 9/16/2016 12:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/16/2016 12:16 PM, Catherine L. Cranche wrote:
On 9/16/2016 6:45 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/15/2016 8:05 AM, Catherine L. Cranche wrote:
On 9/15/2016 7:34 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Catherine L. Cranche wrote:
On 9/14/2016 4:16 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 06:47:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:55:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 21:07:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Ignoramus7822 wrote:

Awesome! I hope that you enjoy your retirement for a long time!

Actually, that time period is a concern. A BBC article says:
"... in
some jobs, average life expectancy after retirement is
just 18 months". Here's the website:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18952037

True indeed.

I hope Ed stays alive for a very long time.

Like my tee says
"The more you complain, the longer God makes you live."

You just want him to live long enough to be culled, dontcha?


Nah..they wont cull Fast Eddy. They might prop him up in the Clown
Car..but he has too little influence over anything ...he is just a
minor stench..kinda like a kindergardners fart. Nothing of any
significance. And I kinda like him, damaged as he is.

If he is on the List..its not by my doing.

There is no "list", there are no "those who maintain the list." It's
all bull**** - 100% of it.

You hope ...

We all *know* that "the list" is bull****. You know it. We know that
you know it.

I see you've morphed again , still to much the coward to post
your real name .

I'd apologize, but it would be insincere. I really like that it upsets
you.

There , fixed that for you .


??? It's just the same as I wrote it. It was right the first time.



An now everybody knows that I *OWN* you ,


No. I don't think you even own your own underwear.

you can't NOT respond when Ipost .


Why would I refrain from responding when I know it upsets you and I
enjoy upsetting you?

What's up with the extra and *wrong* space preceding all your
punctuation marks, bitch?

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lucky *******...

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:39:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Well, I retired on Friday. 'Finally had enough. So I went fishing this
weekend -- and I see that a lot of people here spent this nice weekend
blowing smoke at each other.

Tomorrow I'm leaving for a few days of .... more fishing. Then I'm
going somewhere else. I won't be back for a long while.

So, enjoy yourselves. I'll be finding better ways to use my time. I
have a small boat to build before it gets cold. Hasta luego!

(if anyone wants to reach me, delete the "3" from my phony email
address above)

--
Ed Huntress


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Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:53:31 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 16:28:50 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 13/09/2016 5:39 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Well, I retired on Friday. 'Finally had enough. So I went fishing this
weekend
The worst day fishing beats the best day working.
But I guess that doesn't apply anymore, eh?
Enjoy!

Jon
Thanks, Jon. I hope the rest is like the last week. d8-) I didn't
catch many trout (man, am I rusty!) but just being on those freestone
streams is worth the effort. It's beautiful up in north-central PA
right now. But then, it usually is.


Congratulation's on retirement, now get to work you slacker.... :-)

I know the feeling about being rusty. Had a damn stroke early in year,
still trying to get my hand to release a line correctly.

Signed on the line to vote the other day and they looked it over as it
wasn't even close to last years! Told them I was lucky I could still
move the hand.


Oh, jeez, I hope you get those stroke effects rehabbed. It looks like
it didn't damage the most important part -- the part of your brain
that thinks.

Good luck on the rest of it, Steve.


So far I've got 80% or so back. Still have issues with fine motor
control and a tremor that makes some things a real pain.

BUT, I know folks who have it a lot worse than me after one.

--
Steve W.


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On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:08:22 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:06:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



I thought maybe you fabbed up a driver, but I hadn't even considered
that you'd have to do optical work. Cool.


I didn't do any optical work. The molded lenses are off-the-shelf for
$1.50.
http://www.ledsupply.com/led-optics/...spot-led-optic


Oh. Did you know that you can buy complete LED bulbs via eBay for as
little as $0.01, delivered? The average for me over the past 6 years
is $1.50 for anything from 3w to 18w. Most are 6500k (I prefer cool
white or daylight bulbs over the urine yellow of warm white)
I got lots of 9w 12v MR-16 spot bulbs with those lenses and finned
heatsink bodies for $.99 each. I used them in my house as emergency
lighting (fed by the HFT 45w solar panels) adapted with E27-MR16
screw-ins and covered with a 6" globe. It's an interesting look. The
globe had a ring of brighter light at the bottom, but the rest of the
globe was also lit well. It diffused the spotlight better than I had
expected.


Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.


Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.


The failure rate is ghastly, and invariably they short. Some last a
year, some 20, but in most cases, I've just turned the light on at
night & off in the morning. Often, I've moved to a PIR, and once the
sensor shorts, I just let it shine (5 min timer) the few times I pass
it in the day.

Home Depot used to carry (maybe still does) a Chinese brand called
Lights of America. They were the epitome, to me, of under-engineering
and cheapest possible manufacture. I bought half a dozen one year and
had returned all but one at least one time during that year. After the
first couple, I started getting my money back instead of trying
another lamp. The manager of the Vista store told Corporate to stop
sending them to him, as he would not stock them any more, period! I
was proud of him. He related stories to me about dozens more of his
customers who were as irate as I about the crappy brand. The brand is
still around 25 years later, as I recently saw 4' LED shop lights at
BiMart which had that evil company name on it. I ran away screaming.


--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 02:59:49 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:53:31 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 16:28:50 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 13/09/2016 5:39 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Well, I retired on Friday. 'Finally had enough. So I went fishing this
weekend
The worst day fishing beats the best day working.
But I guess that doesn't apply anymore, eh?
Enjoy!

Jon
Thanks, Jon. I hope the rest is like the last week. d8-) I didn't
catch many trout (man, am I rusty!) but just being on those freestone
streams is worth the effort. It's beautiful up in north-central PA
right now. But then, it usually is.


Congratulation's on retirement, now get to work you slacker.... :-)

I know the feeling about being rusty. Had a damn stroke early in year,
still trying to get my hand to release a line correctly.

Signed on the line to vote the other day and they looked it over as it
wasn't even close to last years! Told them I was lucky I could still
move the hand.


Oh, jeez, I hope you get those stroke effects rehabbed. It looks like
it didn't damage the most important part -- the part of your brain
that thinks.

Good luck on the rest of it, Steve.


So far I've got 80% or so back. Still have issues with fine motor
control and a tremor that makes some things a real pain.

BUT, I know folks who have it a lot worse than me after one.


Yeah, they're scary. I had to drive my uncle around for the last
couple years of his life, after he had a stroke, because he just
couldn't do it.

I also had to maintain his 42-foot boat. Lucky for him, he could still
sit in his deck chair and give me instructions. The Caterpillar diesel
was a bit over my head without him. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:34:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.


Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.


The failure rate is ghastly, and invariably they short. Some last a
year, some 20, but in most cases, I've just turned the light on at
night & off in the morning. Often, I've moved to a PIR, and once the
sensor shorts, I just let it shine (5 min timer) the few times I pass
it in the day.


The marginally-designed Chinese 117-volt switch-on-when-dark modules
may fail, but CdS photocells are very reliable. The CdS photocell is
just a photoresistor that varies from a low resistance (a few K) in
presence of light to a high resistance (megohms) in total darkness.

The Chinese dark switches in lights probably use a triac to switch AC
line voltage. Triacs can get zapped by transients, and they'd fail
short when that happens. The remedy is to use higher-voltage triacs,
but that'd cost another few pennies. Designers and mfrs of traffic
controls never use less than 600-volt triacs, and they are protected
from transients with tranzorbs and MOVs.

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On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:00:16 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:34:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.

Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.


The failure rate is ghastly, and invariably they short. Some last a
year, some 20, but in most cases, I've just turned the light on at
night & off in the morning. Often, I've moved to a PIR, and once the
sensor shorts, I just let it shine (5 min timer) the few times I pass
it in the day.


The marginally-designed Chinese 117-volt switch-on-when-dark modules
may fail, but CdS photocells are very reliable. The CdS photocell is
just a photoresistor that varies from a low resistance (a few K) in
presence of light to a high resistance (megohms) in total darkness.

The Chinese dark switches in lights probably use a triac to switch AC
line voltage. Triacs can get zapped by transients, and they'd fail
short when that happens. The remedy is to use higher-voltage triacs,
but that'd cost another few pennies. Designers and mfrs of traffic
controls never use less than 600-volt triacs, and they are protected
from transients with tranzorbs and MOVs.


Yeah, but the advice from Legal is to cheap out and make more money by
selling all those replacement units whose failure was caused by
knowingly cheaping out. Business Anti-Ethics 101, I guess.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:13:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:00:16 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:34:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.

Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.

The failure rate is ghastly, and invariably they short. Some last a
year, some 20, but in most cases, I've just turned the light on at
night & off in the morning. Often, I've moved to a PIR, and once the
sensor shorts, I just let it shine (5 min timer) the few times I pass
it in the day.


The marginally-designed Chinese 117-volt switch-on-when-dark modules
may fail, but CdS photocells are very reliable. The CdS photocell is
just a photoresistor that varies from a low resistance (a few K) in
presence of light to a high resistance (megohms) in total darkness.

The Chinese dark switches in lights probably use a triac to switch AC
line voltage. Triacs can get zapped by transients, and they'd fail
short when that happens. The remedy is to use higher-voltage triacs,
but that'd cost another few pennies. Designers and mfrs of traffic
controls never use less than 600-volt triacs, and they are protected
from transients with tranzorbs and MOVs.


Yeah, but the advice from Legal is to cheap out and make more money by
selling all those replacement units whose failure was caused by
knowingly cheaping out. Business Anti-Ethics 101, I guess.


"We've met the enemy and it is us." Pogo Possum.

They couldn't sell that cheap crap at Wal-Mawrt and Depot if
consumers didn't put price ahead of function. They work when they go
out the door.

Similar is true of CF lights. The lights themselves will last for
years if the integral electronic ballasts don't blow up. I've never
had a CF fail, but I've had the electronics fail after just a few
months of service. When I dissect them, it amazes me that they could
ever have worked at all.

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On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:


They couldn't sell that cheap crap at Wal-Mawrt and Depot if
consumers didn't put price ahead of function. They work when they go
out the door.

Similar is true of CF lights. The lights themselves will last for
years if the integral electronic ballasts don't blow up. I've never
had a CF fail, but I've had the electronics fail after just a few
months of service. When I dissect them, it amazes me that they could
ever have worked at all.

The problem is that one does not know which things are good and which are not. And a higher price does not necessarily mean better.

Walmart sell a LED light. 800 lumens 8.5 watts $1.61 in lots of four. Could be junk, but I have a bunch in use for some months and no failures.

Dan
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:


They couldn't sell that cheap crap at Wal-Mawrt and Depot if
consumers didn't put price ahead of function. They work when they go
out the door.

Similar is true of CF lights. The lights themselves will last for
years if the integral electronic ballasts don't blow up. I've never
had a CF fail, but I've had the electronics fail after just a few
months of service. When I dissect them, it amazes me that they could
ever have worked at all.

The problem is that one does not know which things are good and which are not. And a higher price does not necessarily mean better.


I've found that known brands nearly always have higher price and
usually have higher quality. Sylvania, GE, Osram, Philips, etc.
Definitely not Lights of America! I've had pretty good luck with CF
bulbs since I quit buying the cheapest ones available.

Walmart sell a LED light. 800 lumens 8.5 watts $1.61 in lots of four. Could be junk, but I have a bunch in use for some months and no failures.


Yup, there are some bargains out there. I got two LED shop light
fixtures, each having two 48 inch "tubes", for under 50 bux at Costco,
and I'm very pleased with them. They illuminate better than the 2 x
40W fluorescent tube fixtures that they replaced, one over my lathe.
The brand is Feit Electric. Never heard of them, but seems to be good
stuff.

Got a green light showing outside?
http://www.greenlightavet.com/
I have a green LED light bulb from Home Depot in my front porch
light. It's on 24/7 to thank vets for their service.

I'm a vet, maybe you are too. I appreciate gestures like that.


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On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 09:26:57 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:13:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:00:16 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:34:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Those only last a couple years, yeah? I've replaced quite a few
photosensors over the years in PIR lamp fixtures.

Didn't know that! We'll see, I guess.

The failure rate is ghastly, and invariably they short. Some last a
year, some 20, but in most cases, I've just turned the light on at
night & off in the morning. Often, I've moved to a PIR, and once the
sensor shorts, I just let it shine (5 min timer) the few times I pass
it in the day.

The marginally-designed Chinese 117-volt switch-on-when-dark modules
may fail, but CdS photocells are very reliable. The CdS photocell is
just a photoresistor that varies from a low resistance (a few K) in
presence of light to a high resistance (megohms) in total darkness.

The Chinese dark switches in lights probably use a triac to switch AC
line voltage. Triacs can get zapped by transients, and they'd fail
short when that happens. The remedy is to use higher-voltage triacs,
but that'd cost another few pennies. Designers and mfrs of traffic
controls never use less than 600-volt triacs, and they are protected
from transients with tranzorbs and MOVs.


Yeah, but the advice from Legal is to cheap out and make more money by
selling all those replacement units whose failure was caused by
knowingly cheaping out. Business Anti-Ethics 101, I guess.


"We've met the enemy and it is us." Pogo Possum.


Ain't dat de trufe?


They couldn't sell that cheap crap at Wal-Mawrt and Depot if
consumers didn't put price ahead of function. They work when they go
out the door.


Well, when American companies charge $36 for the same item you can get
from China for a buck, something else is wrong, as well. I'll happily
pay a 20% upcharge to buy American, but I sure as hell won't pay 300
to 3,500% more for nothing. For things I rely on, I'll pay the extra
price for a better design, but I demand value rather than a price
point.

I retired a bunch of 100w equivalent Chiwanese CFLs due to color
rather than death rate. I found that I much preferred cool white or
daylight bulbs to warm white. Enough to throw $20 worth of bulbs out.
(stored, not trashed) That's not easy for a tightw^H^H^H^H^H^Hfrugal
person like myself.


Similar is true of CF lights. The lights themselves will last for
years if the integral electronic ballasts don't blow up. I've never
had a CF fail, but I've had the electronics fail after just a few
months of service. When I dissect them, it amazes me that they could
ever have worked at all.


g Yeah, I've had more than my share of magic smoke leak out of CFLs
over the years, all from cheap electronics, regardless of US or
offshore manufacture.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson


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On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:


They couldn't sell that cheap crap at Wal-Mawrt and Depot if
consumers didn't put price ahead of function. They work when they go
out the door.

Similar is true of CF lights. The lights themselves will last for
years if the integral electronic ballasts don't blow up. I've never
had a CF fail, but I've had the electronics fail after just a few
months of service. When I dissect them, it amazes me that they could
ever have worked at all.

The problem is that one does not know which things are good and which are not. And a higher price does not necessarily mean better.


I've found that known brands nearly always have higher price and
usually have higher quality. Sylvania, GE, Osram, Philips, etc.
Definitely not Lights of America! I've had pretty good luck with CF
bulbs since I quit buying the cheapest ones available.


I switched to Satco when I found that they had both a decent price and
long life. The local Grover's Plumbing and Electric sells that brand.


Walmart sell a LED light. 800 lumens 8.5 watts $1.61 in lots of four. Could be junk, but I have a bunch in use for some months and no failures.


Wow, their prices have really dropped. The last time (couple years?)
I looked at LEDs in Wally World, their bulbs were $15-18 each.

What do you use small bulbs like that for? I see all these 40 and 60w
equivalent LEDs and wonder where the hell they're used. Maybe for
down-light fixtures? I have only one down-light in my house, right
over the sink, and I want more lumens than that.


Yup, there are some bargains out there. I got two LED shop light
fixtures, each having two 48 inch "tubes", for under 50 bux at Costco,
and I'm very pleased with them. They illuminate better than the 2 x
40W fluorescent tube fixtures that they replaced, one over my lathe.
The brand is Feit Electric. Never heard of them, but seems to be good
stuff.


After returning bulb after bulb to Feit (hours or weeks lifetimes), I
stopped using their CFLs (or anything else they build) and spit
whenever I say their name any more. You got lucky with that unit, I
think, Don.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

Walmart sell a LED light. 800 lumens 8.5 watts $1.61 in lots of four. Could be junk, but I have a bunch in use for some months and no failures.


Walmart doesn't sell cool white, and their daylight LEDs are 2-6x the
price of those you mentioned. sigh


Got a green light showing outside?
http://www.greenlightavet.com/
I have a green LED light bulb from Home Depot in my front porch
light. It's on 24/7 to thank vets for their service.


No, I don't. I do have a stripe of blue tape on my truck rear window,
though, showing support for our police.


I'm a vet, maybe you are too. I appreciate gestures like that.


I can imagine that it's much better received than the welcome VietNam
vets got from us back in the 60s and 70s. I wholeheartedly support
our vets, but am not a vet and won't be doing the green light thing.
The only things I've done along those lines are the red ribbon on my
vehicle antenna for MADD and the blue tape. No ribbon stickers or
such.


https://nikolamotor.com/zero Do these look like fun toys, or what?

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson
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On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:17:26 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

What do you use small bulbs like that for? I see all these 40 and 60w
equivalent LEDs and wonder where the hell they're used. Maybe for
down-light fixtures? I have only one down-light in my house, right
over the sink, and I want more lumens than that.


Mostly in the halls and kitchen. One in the basement near the furnace. The lamps are not all that bright, but there are three in the kitchen and another three in the upstairs hall.

Dan

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On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:17:25 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:


snip

After returning bulb after bulb to Feit (hours or weeks lifetimes), I
stopped using their CFLs (or anything else they build) and spit whenever
I say their name any more. You got lucky with that unit, I think, Don.


I had similar experience to Larry with Feit's regular bulbs. Worthless
crap.

Unlike Larry, I hate the blue-white LED's. They glare badly to me,
especially outside. My POA put them at our entrance and bragged on
them. I can't stand them. I get the soft white ones.

The AMA came out earlier this year with a study and guidance against
those blue-white jobs for outside lighting. There are other studies
showing a negative impact on non-human critters as well.

I have to admit using an astronomy telescope from time to time, and then
I pretty much don't like any outside lighting, especially the glare to
the south from Austin. I've got an astro-video camera coming which
should help a lot since my eyes won't have to stay night adjusted.

Pete Keillor
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 11:53:21 GMT, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:17:25 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:


snip

After returning bulb after bulb to Feit (hours or weeks lifetimes), I
stopped using their CFLs (or anything else they build) and spit whenever
I say their name any more. You got lucky with that unit, I think, Don.


I had similar experience to Larry with Feit's regular bulbs. Worthless
crap.

Unlike Larry, I hate the blue-white LED's. They glare badly to me,
especially outside. My POA put them at our entrance and bragged on
them. I can't stand them. I get the soft white ones.


They're brighter than soft white for a given wattage. And no light is
meant to be looked into, especially outdoor lighting. It's for
brightly lighting large areas. People are misusing LEDs in far too
many places. I feel that they're using far too much wattage in
replacing the old yellow mercury/sodium/halide lamps. They use half
the wattage when they could have cut down to 20% and still had better
lighting than the old lamps gave when they were brand new. Over-
wattage in itself causes a whole lot more glare.


The AMA came out earlier this year with a study and guidance against
those blue-white jobs for outside lighting. There are other studies
showing a negative impact on non-human critters as well.


Blue light. It's beginning to warp into a religion (vs science) like
saturated fat, artificial sweeteners, and AGWK, Pete.


I have to admit using an astronomy telescope from time to time, and then
I pretty much don't like any outside lighting, especially the glare to
the south from Austin. I've got an astro-video camera coming which
should help a lot since my eyes won't have to stay night adjusted.


The majority of LED lighting is ground-facing, so it's becoming a
better replacement for the old lighting systems. And cities are
starting to enforce the requests from astronomers to use more care in
lighting, though there are still a lot of idiots out there. The kind
who shine lasers at airline pilots, y'know?


sigh
Well, isn't that interesting? The County just decided that our little
dead end road needed passing lane stripes instead of the dashed yellow
center line and restriped it. Now a crew of 3 is going along
sandblasting the mistakes and another crew of 5 is blacking the
blasted areas and waving traffic. Our tax dollars at work!

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson


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On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:16:34 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

It's like golf clubs or shotguns: you can spend unbelievable amounts of
money on it, but their performance and pleasure you'll get from it have
no relationship to how expensive your equipment is. And if you build
rods and find out that you don't really like it, it's a waste. Ovis
makes fly-fishing outfits that start at $170, and they have some that go
up into the thousands. Until you've been at it for a year or two, you
wouldn't recognize the difference.


I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.
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On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 03:33:46 -0000 (UTC), Przemek Klosowski
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:16:34 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

It's like golf clubs or shotguns: you can spend unbelievable amounts of
money on it, but their performance and pleasure you'll get from it have
no relationship to how expensive your equipment is. And if you build
rods and find out that you don't really like it, it's a waste. Ovis
makes fly-fishing outfits that start at $170, and they have some that go
up into the thousands. Until you've been at it for a year or two, you
wouldn't recognize the difference.


I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.


vbg

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod
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On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:12:28 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.


vbg


Its kinds sorta true...for some value of "doesnt matter"..but if your
racket only has 5 loose strings in it...or your bindings are set
backwards....it can very much matter, no matter how good you are.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Gunner Asch on Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:37:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:12:28 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.


vbg


Its kinds sorta true...for some value of "doesnt matter"..but if your
racket only has 5 loose strings in it...or your bindings are set
backwards....it can very much matter, no matter how good you are.


OTOH, if you know what you are doing, you know _why_ this thing
isn't working.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 03:33:46 -0000 (UTC), Przemek Klosowski
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:16:34 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

It's like golf clubs or shotguns: you can spend unbelievable amounts of
money on it, but their performance and pleasure you'll get from it have
no relationship to how expensive your equipment is. And if you build
rods and find out that you don't really like it, it's a waste. Ovis
makes fly-fishing outfits that start at $170, and they have some that go
up into the thousands. Until you've been at it for a year or two, you
wouldn't recognize the difference.


I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.


Ha-ha! Yes, that's a good point. It certainly applies to fly-fishing
equipment, too.

In fact it's something has happened to many hobbies and passtimes. The
amount of money you can spend on them today, if you're inclined that
way, is amazing. But it doesn't make much difference in how much fun
you have, in my experience.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 03:33:46 -0000 (UTC), Przemek Klosowski
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:16:34 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

It's like golf clubs or shotguns: you can spend unbelievable amounts of
money on it, but their performance and pleasure you'll get from it have
no relationship to how expensive your equipment is. And if you build
rods and find out that you don't really like it, it's a waste. Ovis
makes fly-fishing outfits that start at $170, and they have some that go
up into the thousands. Until you've been at it for a year or two, you
wouldn't recognize the difference.


I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.

That's what I try to tell my offspring when they tell my I need
better machines, i.e. grinder made from a double shaft 1/4 HP motor
50+ years ago or 1/6 HP 3/8" bench top drill press upgraded with a 1/3
HP motor, 1/2" chuck and a 66" column w/ CI base on casters.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
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On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 07:15:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:37:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:12:28 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
I always said this about skiing equipment (where I actually know what I'm
doing) and tennis rackets (where I don't): if you suck, the equipment
doesn't matter, and if you're very good, it doesn't matter either.

vbg


Its kinds sorta true...for some value of "doesnt matter"..but if your
racket only has 5 loose strings in it...or your bindings are set
backwards....it can very much matter, no matter how good you are.


OTOH, if you know what you are doing, you know _why_ this thing
isn't working.


That's what I've always aimed for. The more you know about something,
the more likely it is that you know how it works and can fix it, fake
it, or just say '**** it' as necessary.

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod
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On 10/3/2016 1:07 PM, amdx wrote:
If you save 35% of your income you can retire in 25 years.
If you don't save, you can retire on Social security.


Thanks for sharing the Clinton economic plan for America.
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