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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Cast iron grate repair
I just got a call from the guy I buy my compressed gasses from wanting me
to weld up some cracks in a stove grate . I'm thinking plain phosphor bronxe filler might not take the heat , and am looking for opinions on what to use .. Looks like my choices are Ni-99 , Ni-55 , silicon bronze . or cast iron filler . Will CI or SB require peening , like the nickel does ? Or is peening necessary with the part preheated to around 500°-600° ? I'll have the grate in/on firebricks to retain the heat while I work on it or possibly bury it in dry sand . Which would you use ? I do know that whatever I use it's going to need preheat and a slow cooldown . I'm thinking a nice wood fire could handle both since I don't have anything else to preheat a piece about 11 x 13 . He won't be bringing it for a couple of weeks , so I have time to order some filler as soon as I decide which to use . -- Snag |
#2
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Cast iron grate repair
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:42:58 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: I just got a call from the guy I buy my compressed gasses from wanting me to weld up some cracks in a stove grate . I'm thinking plain phosphor bronxe filler might not take the heat , and am looking for opinions on what to use . Looks like my choices are Ni-99 , Ni-55 , silicon bronze . or cast iron filler . Will CI or SB require peening , like the nickel does ? Or is peening necessary with the part preheated to around 500°-600° ? I'll have the grate in/on firebricks to retain the heat while I work on it or possibly bury it in dry sand . Which would you use ? I do know that whatever I use it's going to need preheat and a slow cooldown . I'm thinking a nice wood fire could handle both since I don't have anything else to preheat a piece about 11 x 13 . He won't be bringing it for a couple of weeks , so I have time to order some filler as soon as I decide which to use . Greetings Terry, I'm not sure which of the rods mentioned above is best for your job but I do know that there is a rod available for stick welding cast iron alone or welding it to steel. I used the stuff years ago and it worked very well and I think I bought it at the hardware store.I think it was the Ni-55. In fact, I'm almost positive that's what it was. Your idea about pre-heating is a good one. When I weld cast iron I use ceramic blanket material that I buy from Seattle pottery supply. I like the stuff because it is real easy to make a form fitting oven. When I use it I lay it on the welding table, lay the part on the stuff, and I pack it around the part as close as possible. If the part is heavy I will lay fire brick on top of the blanketand lay the part on the fire brick. I then use a weed burner to heat the cast iron so that it is very hot. Then welding commences and as soon as I am finished welding I cover the part with the blanket to cool slowly. Since I started using this method I have not had any parts with cracks once cooled. A couple jobs I have done had such thin cross sections being welded I worried about strength after welding. So I welded some mild steel reinforcements to the cast iron. Eric |
#3
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Cast iron grate repair
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 11:43:02 AM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I just got a call from the guy I buy my compressed gasses from wanting me to weld up some cracks in a stove grate . I'm thinking plain phosphor bronxe filler might not take the heat , and am looking for opinions on what to use . Looks like my choices are Ni-99 , Ni-55 , silicon bronze . or cast iron filler . Will CI or SB require peening , like the nickel does ? Or is peening necessary with the part preheated to around 500°-600° ? I'll have the grate in/on firebricks to retain the heat while I work on it or possibly bury it in dry sand . Which would you use ? I do know that whatever I use it's going to need preheat and a slow cooldown . I'm thinking a nice wood fire could handle both since I don't have anything else to preheat a piece about 11 x 13 . He won't be bringing it for a couple of weeks , so I have time to order some filler as soon as I decide which to use . -- Snag I do not have much experience welding cast iron. But read http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...on-detail.aspx From Lincoln Electric. It only mentions peening when you do not preheat. When you do not preheat , the weld shrinks on cooling and the cast iron does not. So you peen the weld to make it expand. I think the NI-55 shrinks less than NI-99. and may have about the same thermal expansion as cast iron. I am just guessing here. ( invar36 is 36 % nickel. Invar -41 is 41 % Ni. INvar 36 has less thermal exponsion acound room temperatures , but invar 41 has less thermal expansion at higher tempertures. ) But Ni-99 is softer and will yield . I would probably go with NI-55 as it is a lot cheaper than NI-99. But if you preheat you could probably use CI rod. Dan |
#4
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Cast iron grate repair
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 8:34:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I do not have much experience welding cast iron. Dan I wandered around the internet and found a site ( welding tricks ...jody ) that mentioned using 312 stainless rod on cast iron. I am pretty sure that I have some invar 36 and invar 41 tig rod and could cut some to fit in a flat rate box. But as I remember it is all 1/16 dia. Let me know if you want some. Dan |
#5
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Cast iron grate repair
On 11/20/2015 11:42 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I just got a call from the guy I buy my compressed gasses from wanting me to weld up some cracks in a stove grate . I'm thinking plain phosphor bronxe filler might not take the heat , and am looking for opinions on what to use . Looks like my choices are Ni-99 , Ni-55 , silicon bronze . or cast iron filler . Will CI or SB require peening , like the nickel does ? Or is peening necessary with the part preheated to around 500°-600° ? I'll have the grate in/on firebricks to retain the heat while I work on it or possibly bury it in dry sand . Which would you use ? I do know that whatever I use it's going to need preheat and a slow cooldown . I'm thinking a nice wood fire could handle both since I don't have anything else to preheat a piece about 11 x 13 . He won't be bringing it for a couple of weeks , so I have time to order some filler as soon as I decide which to use . I know what a pain these kind of jobs can be and I wish you luck! I would truly like to see a before and after and explain your process. |
#6
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Cast iron grate repair
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:42:58 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: I just got a call from the guy I buy my compressed gasses from wanting me to weld up some cracks in a stove grate . I'm thinking plain phosphor bronxe filler might not take the heat , and am looking for opinions on what to use . Looks like my choices are Ni-99 , Ni-55 , silicon bronze . or cast iron filler . Will CI or SB require peening , like the nickel does ? Or is peening necessary with the part preheated to around 500°-600° ? I'll have the grate in/on firebricks to retain the heat while I work on it or possibly bury it in dry sand . Ni-55 is my go-to filler for cast iron and just about anything else. Couple of weeks ago I had to weld some 18-8 stainless weld nuts to a cast iron pot for a custom induction heated lead melter. This was the ******* of all jobs. I recently had my TIG setup stolen and the Ni-55 rods the shop had were too large for my little solid state rig so I stripped some carbon-zinc D cells and carbon arc welded the fittings! I heated the pot to 600 degrees with one of our induction heaters, blanketed the rest of the pot and welded away, arc-to-work from the carbon rod. It worked amazingly well. I heated the weld nut and the cast iron nearby red hot with the induction heater and then I blanketed the welded assembly and let it cool for a couple of hours. I sacrificed one pot trying to break the weld in shear (actual use is in compression). The pot broke in the press before the weld did. I did NOT make any attempt to peen the weld. The stress-relieving was the heating to red heat and slow cool. Which would you use ? I do know that whatever I use it's going to need preheat and a slow cooldown . I'm thinking a nice wood fire could handle both since I don't have anything else to preheat a piece about 11 x 13 . He won't be bringing it for a couple of weeks , so I have time to order some filler as soon as I decide which to use . Well, I could fix you up with a nice, inexpensive induction heater. See fluxeon.com. :-) Seriously now, if I didn't have an induction heater, I'd probably tack together several lengths of 3/8" black steel pipe, manifold them together, drill a bunch of holes and feed it with gas. Optionally with a reducer fitting acting as a venturi. That should easily get a large area to red heat. John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address |
#7
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Cast iron grate repair
On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 1:58:03 PM UTC-5, Neon John wrote:
Ni-55 is my go-to filler for cast iron and just about anything else. John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address This is a general question, not necessarily to you , John. But can anyone tell me why the nickel percentage in a 55% rod is 55%. I mean there is 55% and 99% but nothing in between and nothing recommended for cast iron below 55%. I have rummaged around on the internet, but have not found the answer. Dan |
#8
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Cast iron grate repair
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote:
John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? |
#9
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Cast iron grate repair
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:56:33 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote: John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? $499 Annie (OOS, but the parts are in) $741 Roy See 'web store' button on fluxeon page. Gonna buy two? They're small. -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
#10
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Cast iron grate repair
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:08:45 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:56:33 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote: John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? $499 Annie (OOS, but the parts are in) $741 Roy See 'web store' button on fluxeon page. Gonna buy two? They're small. It was taking forever to load for some reason, so I bailed out and never did get a price. Thanks Bit rich for my blood. Ill stick with the 2 methods that have worked for me for 30 yrs and doesnt cost 1/10 the price |
#11
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Cast iron grate repair
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:08:45 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:56:33 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote: John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? $499 Annie (OOS, but the parts are in) $741 Roy See 'web store' button on fluxeon page. Gonna buy two? They're small. It was taking forever to load for some reason, so I bailed out and never did get a price. Thanks Bit rich for my blood. Ill stick with the 2 methods that have worked for me for 30 yrs and doesnt cost 1/10 the price Propane torch and a pan of water ? -- Snag |
#12
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Cast iron grate repair
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:40:55 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:08:45 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:56:33 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote: John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? $499 Annie (OOS, but the parts are in) $741 Roy See 'web store' button on fluxeon page. Gonna buy two? They're small. It was taking forever to load for some reason, so I bailed out and never did get a price. Thanks Bit rich for my blood. Ill stick with the 2 methods that have worked for me for 30 yrs and doesnt cost 1/10 the price Propane torch and a pan of water ? Don't forget the lazy susan base. -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
#13
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Cast iron grate repair
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:25:19 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:40:55 -0600, "Terry Coombs" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:08:45 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:56:33 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:57:53 -0500, Neon John wrote: John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.fluxeon.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN How much are the case neck annealers? $499 Annie (OOS, but the parts are in) $741 Roy See 'web store' button on fluxeon page. Gonna buy two? They're small. It was taking forever to load for some reason, so I bailed out and never did get a price. Thanks Bit rich for my blood. Ill stick with the 2 methods that have worked for me for 30 yrs and doesnt cost 1/10 the price Propane torch and a pan of water ? Actually an acet torch and a bowl of water. One of those small plumbing torches. Its actually cheaper than using propane in the long run. Don't forget the lazy susan base. I use an old record player that has been repullyed. Works fine and will turn a 14" ss bowl nicely. |
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