On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:05:02 PM UTC, wrote:


Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane and leave pulling everything out to them. Its probably safer too, because all this speculation and do-it-yourself crap is for the birds.

Where is the fun in that?

Dan

On 8/20/2014 7:15 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Karl, as a fruit farmer, can you tell me what time pears ripen? My
neighbor just gave me permission to harvest her tree (tiny ancient
thing with 2 or 3 varieties on it) but I'm not sure when to pick.
They're all hard as rocks right now, but I only know how to pick
candidates from the grocery store. I gave up googlinit when the first
hundred and fifty were all either how to plant, grow, splice, or other
such unwanted info, but nothing saying "when". Do you know,
perchance?


We learned several years ago to tip the pear upward so the stem bends a
bit. If the stem pops loose from the limb, the pear is ready to be
picked. If the stem doesn't pop loose, leave it for another time.

We have tried it on various varieties, including winter pears and it works.

Paul

Mike Terrell wrote:

)) Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane.
) I'm sure you would since you never do anything but complain

Mike, you're just a child trying to imitate somebody you heard.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:16:13 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:
snip
I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a
torch this is not difficult.
snip
this may be less expensive / quicker if you can rent
http://tinyurl.com/k735kd6


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On 2014-08-21, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:05:02 PM UTC, wrote:


Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane and leave pulling everything out to them. Its probably safer too, because all this speculation and do-it-yourself crap is for the birds.

Where is the fun in that?

And where is the money, after paying the crane company?

And besides, getting a crane there is a major challenge.

i

On 2014-08-21, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:16:13 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:
snip
I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a
torch this is not difficult.
snip
this may be less expensive / quicker if you can rent
http://tinyurl.com/k735kd6

Cannot possibly be cheaper than a torch

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item 1740 )
you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4 lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow. So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee pads would be a good thing if you try that.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to see what is fastest.

Dan

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:41:25 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:50:31 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:

On 2014-08-20, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:03:34 AM UTC, Ignoramus26736 wrote:

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like

that?
Thanks
i

I am assuming that you are only pulling one rail at a time and that you will be pulling about 5 feet of rail free and then moving the jack. My guess is that you will only need about 8 tons at the most. So you might want to be able to substitute a smaller hydraulic cylinder that will operate faster.

This is a guess from pulling fence posts with a jack. So let us know what works.


I will see. I will hook up the cylinder to the bobcat. I realized
there is no reason to use a 110v hydraulic unit here when I will have
the bobcat. The bobcat has a huge pump and speed is clearly not an
issue, neither is the hydraulic system pressure.

My plan is to work backwards, pull a bit of rail, have it torched off,
back up, pull some more, maybe in 10 foot sections. The bobcat will
both move, as well as power, the hydraulic contraption.

This is how it looks.


beam
.=================
!! ; O
!! ;chain |
!!post ; [ ] hydraulic
!! ; [ ] cylinder
---- {}rail ------

The cylinder pushes the beam up, which cantilevers on top of the left
post, a chain is attached to the middle of the beam, to pull up the
rail.

NAH!

===================
; || ;
; 00 ;
; [] ;
; [] ;
; |====| ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
////// | r |////// frame clamps
| r |
| r |

Cylinder over rail, straddling it. Tongs lift on both sides of
cylinder with 1:1 lift, not 1:12 as you show it. Much quicker.
Heavy-ass duty tongs, of course. Maybe body shop frame pulling
clamps large enough to straddle the rail? Stanzani 140?
http://www.cegroup.com/8,Stanzani__1..._4 5_mm_.html
but made from scratch. You may already have something like it.

this is going to fall down right away

Why? The rail will stabilize it. But it doesn't matter anyway. Once
up, you want it moved. It wouldn't be a stable place to start
cutting, but you want to cut with it REALLY stable, so it doesn't
spring apart, taking a leg/ankle/foot out with it as it shifts.

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 13:34:56 -0700, Paul Drahn
wrote:

On 8/20/2014 7:15 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Karl, as a fruit farmer, can you tell me what time pears ripen? My
neighbor just gave me permission to harvest her tree (tiny ancient
thing with 2 or 3 varieties on it) but I'm not sure when to pick.
They're all hard as rocks right now, but I only know how to pick
candidates from the grocery store. I gave up googlinit when the first
hundred and fifty were all either how to plant, grow, splice, or other
such unwanted info, but nothing saying "when". Do you know,
perchance?


We learned several years ago to tip the pear upward so the stem bends a
bit. If the stem pops loose from the limb, the pear is ready to be
picked. If the stem doesn't pop loose, leave it for another time.

We have tried it on various varieties, including winter pears and it works.

Thanks, Paul. I'll keep it in mind, but it still doesn't give me a
window of time to be vigilant. "WHEN do pears pop?" is the question.

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

On 2014-08-20, Ignoramus26736 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a
private property.

[ ... ]

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like
that? Assuming that the ties are rotten? Just pull up enough to torch
cut them? Or will the ground kind of hold them in? Any experience?

Ties used to be soaked in creosote, and tended to resist rotting
rather well. It was only with years of exposure to rain and hot
sunshine (South Texas) that they would eventually start to rot.

Any idea what a linear pull instead of an upward one might do?

You'll probably have to dig up at least one to find out what the
condition is.

Good Luck,
DoN.



--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

" on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:23:49 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the
rails in place.

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item 1740 )
you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4 lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow. So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee pads would be a good thing if you try that.

I suspect that the railroads have (or had) tools which let them
pull the spikes "easily". With out having to crawl from tie to tie on
your knees.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to see what is fastest.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Ignoramus10365 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:50:31 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:

On 2014-08-20, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:03:34 AM UTC, Ignoramus26736 wrote:

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like

that?
Thanks
i

I am assuming that you are only pulling one rail at a time and that you will be pulling about 5 feet of rail free and then moving the jack. My guess is that you will only need about 8 tons at the most. So you might want to be able to substitute a smaller hydraulic cylinder that will operate faster.

This is a guess from pulling fence posts with a jack. So let us know what works.


I will see. I will hook up the cylinder to the bobcat. I realized
there is no reason to use a 110v hydraulic unit here when I will have
the bobcat. The bobcat has a huge pump and speed is clearly not an
issue, neither is the hydraulic system pressure.

My plan is to work backwards, pull a bit of rail, have it torched off,
back up, pull some more, maybe in 10 foot sections. The bobcat will
both move, as well as power, the hydraulic contraption.

This is how it looks.


beam
.=================
!! ; O
!! ;chain |
!!post ; [ ] hydraulic
!! ; [ ] cylinder
---- {}rail ------

The cylinder pushes the beam up, which cantilevers on top of the left
post, a chain is attached to the middle of the beam, to pull up the
rail.

NAH!

===================
; || ;
; 00 ;
; [] ;
; [] ;
; |====| ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
////// | r |////// frame clamps
| r |
| r |

Cylinder over rail, straddling it. Tongs lift on both sides of
cylinder with 1:1 lift, not 1:12 as you show it. Much quicker.
Heavy-ass duty tongs, of course. Maybe body shop frame pulling
clamps large enough to straddle the rail? Stanzani 140?
http://www.cegroup.com/8,Stanzani__1..._4 5_mm_.html
but made from scratch. You may already have something like it.

this is going to fall down right away



All you need is a couple of track jacks and two gandy dancers to go with
them.

John

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:34:09 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
" on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:23:49 -0700

(PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.



If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item 1740 )

you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4 lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow. So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee pads would be a good thing if you try that.

I suspect that the railroads have (or had) tools which let them

pull the spikes "easily". With out having to crawl from tie to tie on
your knees.

Yeah, but that's if iggy wants to pay for the help like a normal person. Why re-invent the wheel?

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:40:36 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus10365 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:05:02 PM UTC, wrote:

Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane and leave pulling everything out to them. Its probably safer too, because all this speculation and do-it-yourself crap is for the birds.

Where is the fun in that?

And where is the money, after paying the crane company ?

And besides, getting a crane there is a major challenge.

Great question to ask a crane operator, instead of us. It may be easier and cheaper than you think. You don't know if you don't ask.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 07:37:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:40:36 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus10365 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:05:02 PM UTC, wrote:

Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane and leave pulling everything out to them. Its probably safer too, because all this speculation and do-it-yourself crap is for the birds.

Where is the fun in that?

And where is the money, after paying the crane company ?

And besides, getting a crane there is a major challenge.

Great question to ask a crane operator, instead of us. It may be easier and cheaper than you think. You don't know if you don't ask.

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

i

On 2014-08-22, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 07:37:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:40:36 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus10365 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:05:02 PM UTC, wrote:

Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane and leave pulling everything out to them. Its probably safer too, because all this speculation and do-it-yourself crap is for the birds.

Where is the fun in that?

And where is the money, after paying the crane company ?

And besides, getting a crane there is a major challenge.

Great question to ask a crane operator, instead of us. It may be easier and cheaper than you think. You don't know if you don't ask.

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.


Exactly, no time to putz around, hire expensive services etc.

i

On 08/22/2014 9:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
....

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

Rail, if it's at all clean could probably be one of those things ig
could chop up into 6" or shorter chunks and sell for the big bucks on
eBay as the shop/bench anvil, etc., ...

--

On 08/22/2014 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 9:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

Rail, if it's at all clean could probably be one of those things ig
could chop up into 6" or shorter chunks and sell for the big bucks on
eBay as the shop/bench anvil, etc., ...

At least that was my supposition of the intent as given the described
locale and bother hardly seems worth the effort for just scrap prices.

--

Ignoramus7070 on Fri, 22 Aug 2014
11:04:54 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the
rails in place.

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

As opposed to rigging a rail lifter? I don't know, it is your
job. Would depend to me on if I had bid on this, was ah, er, ah
"salvaging abandoned rails" or was clearing them off my property.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

I am still of the opinion that pulling the spikes might be
"easiest". OTOH, if you start lifting a rail, you might find out how
many of the spikes are solidly set.
OT3H, "How long will it take you to get those rails up?" (IOW -
I'm not there, not my circus, not my monkeys. B-) "Sounds like you
guys got an interesting day ahead of you.")

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

dpb on Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:30:49 -0500 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 08/22/2014 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 9:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

Rail, if it's at all clean could probably be one of those things ig
could chop up into 6" or shorter chunks and sell for the big bucks on
eBay as the shop/bench anvil, etc., ...

At least that was my supposition of the intent as given the described
locale and bother hardly seems worth the effort for just scrap prices.

Well, you know how it is, a penny here, a penny there, it adds up.
B-)
If time is money, then it is an issue. Especially if one has to
pay for that time (wages/rental).
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

wrote:

Mike Terrell wrote:

)) Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane.
) I'm sure you would since you never do anything but complain

Mike, you're just a child trying to imitate somebody you heard.


You're just an angry chimp, trying to imitate a human.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html


Do you remember the famous, 'Orange Blossom Special'?

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am still of the opinion that pulling the spikes might be
"easiest". OTOH, if you start lifting a rail, you might find
out how many of the spikes are solidly set.


If the tie starts to raise, whack it with a 20 lb sledge hammer.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:54:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html


Do you remember the famous, 'Orange Blossom Special'?

Only the Charlie Daniels version. One hot fiddler, wot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fih2p4HMY

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:54:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html


Do you remember the famous, 'Orange Blossom Special'?

Only the Charlie Daniels version. One hot fiddler, wot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fih2p4HMY


I was talking about the train it was written about.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:41:22 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:16:13 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:
snip
I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a
torch this is not difficult.
snip
this may be less expensive / quicker if you can rent
http://tinyurl.com/k735kd6

Cannot possibly be cheaper than a torch
-----------------
Can cut 6 to 9 inch pieces ready to sell on ebay for craft
anvils. May also be quicker. IIRC you said you had
hydraulic power available from your back hoe. I would cost
this out (rental) before I assume that the torch is cheaper.
cut-off wheels are cheap.
http://tinyurl.com/ljgvwul
http://tinyurl.com/kgdon82

--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

wrote:

Mike Terrell wrote:

)) Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane.
) I'm sure you would since you never do anything but complain

Mike, you're just a child trying to imitate somebody you heard.


You're just an angry chimp, trying to imitate a human.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magilla_Gorilla

On Friday, August 22, 2014 12:04:54 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
On 2014-08-22, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."



If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item

1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4

lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.

So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee

pads would be a good thing if you try that.



The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost

prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you

have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to

see what is fastest.


There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

BTW, here is the tool they use to dig out railroad spikes:

-- http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/t...OPIC_ID=121328

(I'm sure asking any RR worker can help you in the right direction)

On 2014-08-23, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:41:22 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:16:13 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:
snip
I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a
torch this is not difficult.
snip
this may be less expensive / quicker if you can rent
http://tinyurl.com/k735kd6

Cannot possibly be cheaper than a torch
-----------------
Can cut 6 to 9 inch pieces ready to sell on ebay for craft
anvils. May also be quicker. IIRC you said you had
hydraulic power available from your back hoe. I would cost
this out (rental) before I assume that the torch is cheaper.
cut-off wheels are cheap.
http://tinyurl.com/ljgvwul
http://tinyurl.com/kgdon82


George, it may work. Metal bars bring $1/lb, give or take, and I
expect rails to be the same.

However, I am so upset by the latest changes of ebay that I have
decided to reduce the amount of business I do on ebay. I can always do
something else instead of listing stuff on ebay, for example I can
relax more or seek more scrap business.

Yes, selling on ebay is profitable, but so are a lot of other things I
can do.

i

On 2014-08-22, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 9:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

Rail, if it's at all clean could probably be one of those things ig
could chop up into 6" or shorter chunks and sell for the big bucks on
eBay as the shop/bench anvil, etc., ...

At least that was my supposition of the intent as given the described
locale and bother hardly seems worth the effort for just scrap prices.


The way to make it worth the effort is to avoid wasting time and avoid
renting anything expensive.

i

on Sat, 23 Aug 2014 08:27:01 -0700 (PDT) typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Friday, August 22, 2014 12:04:54 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
On 2014-08-22, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the
rails in place.

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

BTW, here is the tool they use to dig out railroad spikes:

-- http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/t...OPIC_ID=121328

I doubt that is what some are declaring it to be. For one, the
hammer head is way too close to the handle - can't reach over the rail
to drive spikes on the other side.

(I'm sure asking any RR worker can help you in the right direction)

Two tools - one is the spike hammer. Which is not what he needs.
The other is a 'crowbar' with a claw at one end to pry the spikes out.
At four to five feet long, can also be used to move the rail. A tad.
That is what he 'needs'.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

wrote:

Mike Terrell wrote:

)) Yeah well, if I were iggy, I'd just call a crane.
) I'm sure you would since you never do anything but complain

Mike, you're just a child trying to imitate somebody you heard.


You're just an angry chimp, trying to imitate a human.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magilla_Gorilla


Magilla Gorilla was smarter, and funnier.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:03:34 -0500, Ignoramus26736
wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a
private property.

The rails are mounted on very old wooden ties. Due to age, in some
areas, the ties sunk somewhat, such as ties are not visible and the
rails are in the ground up to the web. The top is accessible, but the
web is mostly in the rocky ground. (rocks are from the railroad
construction).

I need to get them out. I have 110v in the area and designed a
hydraulic contraption, made with a 110v hydraulic unit, a cylinder and
I-beams, that can apply an upwards force of up to 30 tons and with
about 10 inches of travel. I have most parts for this.

My expectation is that the ties are very rotten due to decades of
neglect and being under the soil, so that the spikes no longer hold in
the ties. I hope that as I pull the rails up, they will separate from
the ties and come out of the ground, at which point I can torch cut
them.

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like
that? Assuming that the ties are rotten? Just pull up enough to torch
cut them? Or will the ground kind of hold them in? Any experience?

Thanks

i

Id use a forklift or a crane. You might get 10"..but its gonna be a
short loop.

When they pulled the rails that ran through town..they left out a
couple spur sidings for some reason.. So the locals simply got a gang
truck and pulled em up, cut off the rail and worked from one end and
worked their way along.

http://www.ledwell.com/content/image...IN_POLE_06.jpg


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:20:50 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:03:34 -0500, Ignoramus26736
wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a
private property.

The rails are mounted on very old wooden ties. Due to age, in some
areas, the ties sunk somewhat, such as ties are not visible and the
rails are in the ground up to the web. The top is accessible, but the
web is mostly in the rocky ground. (rocks are from the railroad
construction).

I need to get them out. I have 110v in the area and designed a
hydraulic contraption, made with a 110v hydraulic unit, a cylinder and
I-beams, that can apply an upwards force of up to 30 tons and with
about 10 inches of travel. I have most parts for this.

My expectation is that the ties are very rotten due to decades of
neglect and being under the soil, so that the spikes no longer hold in
the ties. I hope that as I pull the rails up, they will separate from
the ties and come out of the ground, at which point I can torch cut
them.

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like
that? Assuming that the ties are rotten? Just pull up enough to torch
cut them? Or will the ground kind of hold them in? Any experience?

Thanks

I pull 25 year old apple trees out by using hydraulic cylinders to
wind a chain up around a drum. The amount of force needed varies
HUGELY with soil conditions, moisture and time of year ( 1/3 force to
pull right after ground thaws)

So the anwser is, "It depends"

Karl

i

Im gonna bet when he lifts rail..the ties are gonna come with em.

(Grin)

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 08:14:11 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:26:25 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
snip
I pull 25 year old apple trees out by using hydraulic cylinders to
wind a chain up around a drum. The amount of force needed varies
HUGELY with soil conditions, moisture and time of year ( 1/3 force to
pull right after ground thaws)

So the anwser is, "It depends"

Karl

Anyone who has a rough time surmising that 2x 30 feet or so of railroad
track and 15 or so wet ties is not going to weigh anything even near to 30
tons is a blithering idiot.
==================
I don't think the problem is lifting it once it is loose,
but rather getting it loose. The rails/crossties are
constructed the way they are specifically to prevent
loosening during use, minimize frost heaving etc. Iggy may
well need to develop some sort of railroad spike puller to
free the rail, and then something to grip the rail and pull
it out of the ground where it is embedded, and possibly
rusted to the tie.
http://tinyurl.com/pelpzzh
it may be possible to rent these tools
http://tinyurl.com/qglvrtk


Or simply torch cut the spike heads off. Should be able to do it
pretty quickly. Only need to do one side of the rail and simply spread
the rail out from under the spike on the other side. Fish
plates...shrug

Good luck, and let the group know how you make out.

Photos!!

Gunner




--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:05:43 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.


Thats $4 a foot.
$200 for every 25 foot of track (two rails)

$800 for 100 foot of track. (2 rails)

Not a bad money maker.

Not to mention side sales for anvils and whatnot.

$8000 for 1000 feet of track.

This of course doesnt include fishplates, spikes and whatnot which
would increase the sale price significantly.

Gunner


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

i

http://www.comenaranjas.com/images/g...s-campos-3.jpg

http://www.markgibsonphoto.com/images/N029.09W08W.JPG


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:12:00 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

Ive got at least 20 large orchards within 15 miles of the house.
Grapefruit also

We need oranges..we simply stop and pick. They are harvesting
now..though its late in the season and its only Valencias.

Most other oranges are late winter very early spring.

http://www.pickyourown.org/CAharvestcalendar.htm



Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."