We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power Association grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we got it going and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing, so we can't throw any chips on the floor.
If anybody has such a tool holder or knows where I might get one, please let me know. I say it's a 12 inch model because that's the size of the table..


I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that you'd find on a lathe. I can't find any model number on the machine. The hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end, and seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is 1.235 thick.


Any leads would sure be appreciated.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power Association grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we got it going and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing, so we can't throw any chips on the floor.
If anybody has such a tool holder or knows where I might get one, please let me know. I say it's a 12 inch model because that's the size of the table.


I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that you'd find on a lathe. I can't find any model number on the machine. The hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end, and seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is 1.235 thick.


Any leads would sure be appreciated.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

This is a very common shaper, Pete, and you should have no trouble
getting info -- and, probably, parts. Some are still in use, doing
things like squaring up mold bases, although the 24" model probably is
preferable for that job.

Here is a page of manuals that includes some for Cincinnati shapers:

http://www.airgraver.com/shaper/

Yes, the toolholder is a "lantern" type (in older professional
literature, it's usually called a "rocker" type).

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power Association grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we got it going and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing, so we can't throw any chips on the floor.
If anybody has such a tool holder or knows where I might get one, please let me know. I say it's a 12 inch model because that's the size of the table.


I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that you'd find on a lathe. I can't find any model number on the machine. The hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end, and seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is 1.235 thick.


Any leads would sure be appreciated.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------


Pete..Ebay for little dollars though Ive made a bunch of my own tool
holders for shapers over the years

Got a photo or a link to that particular shaper model? Might be able
to direct you to sourcing.

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power Association grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we got it going and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing, so we can't throw any chips on the floor.
If anybody has such a tool holder or knows where I might get one, please let me know. I say it's a 12 inch model because that's the size of the table.


I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that you'd find on a lathe. I can't find any model number on the machine. The hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end, and seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is 1.235 thick.


Any leads would sure be appreciated.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

Pete..there are a number of lantern style tool holders on Ebay.
Shapers take ..generally....holders that put the work piece horizontal
with the axis of the tool holder..IE..straight out the
front...however..you can..can use the standard lathe tool where it
tilts the cutter. You just grind it a bit differently. Not a biggie.
You can indeed use the lantern style, right/left/straight tool holders
on a shaper with good efficacy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Armstrong-1-...-/121409223005

http://www.ebay.com/itm/metal-lathe-...-/131267752419

That being said...I don't always use a tool holder. I have enough long
pieces of HSS or Stellite that I simply secure it in the clapper box
where the tool holder would go..and use it as is.

If you review some of the YouTube videos..you will see the boys making
many different types of holders/adapters with the shaper itself.


As for the 12" size of the table..that doesnt indicate the size of the
shaper. Measure the STROKE length of the shaper..thats the "size"

If the ram will go 17" front to back..its a 17" shaper

36" front to back...36" shaper

The nice little Logan 8"..is 8" front to back

IE..they will machine a cube 8"x8"x8"




Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Thanks for the tips so far.
I goofed and didn't make it clear that the part I need is the lantern type tool post itself, not the took holder (which I have a few of around here.

The link to the Cincinnati parts manual was very helpful. My problem now is that there is no relief on the backside of the clapper for the flange on the tail of the lantern type tool post. So I don't understand what would keep it from pulling out of the hole when the bolt that holds the tool or tool holder in place is tightened up. There are two set screws in the clapper that would tighten the lantern style tool post in place, but I don't think they were designed for the outword pulling force that the tightening-bolt would produce. The clapper in the picture in the parts manual SEEMS to show that the backside of the clapper is relieved, but that's no so on the machine we have.
Now I am wondering if maybe there is a relief cut into the head itself to provide clearance for the lantern tool post's flange. I am about 120 miles away from the machine and just got back from 3 days of fairly intense blacksmithing, so I am not ready to hop back into the van again. But, we have until next year to get it done.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:05:52 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Thanks for the tips so far.
I goofed and didn't make it clear that the part I need is the lantern type tool post itself, not the took holder (which I have a few of around here.

The link to the Cincinnati parts manual was very helpful. My problem now is that there is no relief on the backside of the clapper for the flange on the tail of the lantern type tool post. So I don't understand what would keep it from pulling out of the hole when the bolt that holds the tool or tool holder in place is tightened up. There are two set screws in the clapper that would tighten the lantern style tool post in place, but I don't think they were designed for the outword pulling force that the tightening-bolt would produce. The clapper in the picture in the parts manual SEEMS to show that the backside of the clapper is relieved, but that's no so on the machine we have.
Now I am wondering if maybe there is a relief cut into the head itself to provide clearance for the lantern tool post's flange. I am about 120 miles away from the machine and just got back from 3 days of fairly intense blacksmithing, so I am not ready to hop back into the van again. But, we have until next year to get it done.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

Making a tool post itself is easy peasy. Ive got a bunch of them
around here so next time you are near the machine...mike out the
diameter and Ill dig into the Piles O Stuff and see what I have.

As for relief..simply use a boring head and cut some relief, if you
cant put a spacer on the back of the clapper box..or even machine a
new clapper box for using the machine, leaving the original on hand to
keep the machine "complete"

Shapers are making something of a comeback..simply because they are so
simple..they work very well and the finish left..is beautimus.

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Thanks for the offer to "look around", Gunner.
I was surprised to find no room for the lantern style tool post flange on the backside of the clapper, but it hadn't occurred to me whether the back face of the clapper is held away from the front face of the clapper box in some way. Or there might be recess in the clapper box itself.
I'd rather not make a new clapper because I would be concerned about getting the taper pin hole in exactly the right spot.
Still haven't figured out why there are two setscrews that could hold the tool post in place. I can't believe they'd hold the lantern tool post in place when one cranks on the tool tightening screw.
Maybe I do have to take a trip back up there, armed with measuring equipment and some good lighting. In the manual I saw, it showed that the model number may be located someplace on the front of the ram, and I'd like to have that knowledge too.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop
portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power Association
grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we got it going
and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing, so we can't
throw any chips on the floor.
If anybody has such a tool holder or knows where I might get one, please
let me know. I say it's a 12 inch model because that's the size of the
table.


I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that
you'd find on a lathe. I can't find any model number on the machine. The
hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end, and
seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is
1.235 thick.


Any leads would sure be appreciated.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

This is a very common shaper, Pete, and you should have no trouble
getting info -- and, probably, parts. Some are still in use, doing
things like squaring up mold bases, although the 24" model probably is
preferable for that job.

Here is a page of manuals that includes some for Cincinnati shapers:

http://www.airgraver.com/shaper/

Yes, the toolholder is a "lantern" type (in older professional
literature, it's usually called a "rocker" type).


Ran a shaper off and on for quite a few years, no clapper, simply mounted
the tool solid.

--which begs the question, why exactly is it that the clapper is so often
missing...

On 2014-08-18, wrote:

We have a donated Cincinnati 12" mechanical shaper in the machine shop
portion of our blacksmith shop at the Nowthen Historical Power
Association grounds. It sat there for several years, but this weekend we
got it going and all the functions work. But the Tool holder is missing,
so we can't throw any chips on the floor.

[ ... ]

I'm guessing that it looks like a large lantern type tool holder that
you'd find on a lathe.

Based on the one on my 7" Rockwell/Delta/AMMCO one, it is quite
similar to a lantern style toolpost -- except that the collar around it
is a flat ring, not a cupped one with a rocker to allow adjustment of
angle the way the lantern style toolpost in a lathe is set up.

I can't find any model number on the machine. The
hole in the clapper box is about 1.383" diameter at the outboard end,
and seems to taper to about 1.372 at the inboard end. The clapper box is
1.235 thick.

Make your own. Probably something like drill rod, turn it to
fit into the clapper plate with a shoulder at the bottom to keep it from
pulling through, and then mill a slot for it.

The tool holder which goes in there, unlike most of the ones for
a lathe, don't hold the bit at an angle, and have an interesting clamp
with a castle style guide for the bit so it can be set straight on, at
45 degrees either side or 90 degrees either side (and maybe even 135
degrees for some awkward setups. :-)

Oh yes -- beware of where the chips go. That one may be big
enough to be shooting hot chips like one a friend operated which set
fire to papers on the foreman's desk over twenty feet away. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
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On 2014-08-18, wrote:
Thanks for the tips so far.

I goofed and didn't make it clear that the part I need is the lantern
type tool post itself, not the took holder (which I have a few of around
here.

The link to the Cincinnati parts manual was very helpful. My problem
now is that there is no relief on the backside of the clapper for the
flange on the tail of the lantern type tool post. So I don't understand
what would keep it from pulling out of the hole when the bolt that holds
the tool or tool holder in place is tightened up.

How much room is there in the box under the clapper plate? if
there is enough, you don't need the step in the hole.

Now I am wondering if maybe there is a relief cut into the head itself
to provide clearance for the lantern tool post's flange.

Check the cavity under the clapper plate in the clapper box.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2014-08-18,
wrote:
...
Make your own. Probably something like drill rod, turn it to
fit into the clapper plate with a shoulder at the bottom to keep it
from
pulling through, and then mill a slot for it.
...
Good Luck,
DoN.

A Grade 5 bolt is a good starting point if you can find one with a
large enough shank. I'd buy one long enough that the tapped hole is in
the shank because rolling the bolt's threads work-hardens the steel
under them.

Fastenal has large square-headed setscrews.
-jsw