This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:20:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...f=139&t=666980

On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

Industrial lighting and commercial lighting is often grounded by law to
provide a save area or another voltage.

Remember 20 to 60 Thousands of an amp will stop your heart. A car
battery will stop it if just placed in the right locations.

The Voltage drives the current. One has a resistance of so many ohms.
Current = voltage divided by resistance.

E=IR or Voltage = Current times resistance. or since you have
voltage given and a deadly current given then a resistance of

277/60 ma = resistance. 4 thousand ohms. A salty person is in 100's.

Don't fool yourself - treat it safe. You stay safe.

Leaning on a power pole can cause the heart to stop - leakage from high
voltage insulators down a pole taking you as an easier route to ground.

277 is saving transformer winding copper, copper in the walls. more
plastic insulation, but most commercial/industrial wire is 600+ volts.

Martin

wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

"do your job right and make sure fixtures are grounded".

It doesn't mean you need a ground wire, conduit and metallic whips are
good enough at least here in Chicago where we have strict (and good)
electrical codes. Garbage like stapled down romex and plastic boxes are
not allowed here. I'm not sure why they're allowed anywhere.

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

277 is one hell of a reason to make sure things are grounded.

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:43:26 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

Industrial lighting and commercial lighting is often grounded by law to

provide a save area or another voltage.

Remember 20 to 60 Thousands of an amp will stop your heart. A car

battery will stop it if just placed in the right locations.

The Voltage drives the current. One has a resistance of so many ohms.

Current = voltage divided by resistance.

E=IR or Voltage = Current times resistance. or since you have

voltage given and a deadly current given then a resistance of

277/60 ma = resistance. 4 thousand ohms. A salty person is in 100's.

Don't fool yourself - treat it safe. You stay safe.

Leaning on a power pole can cause the heart to stop - leakage from high

voltage insulators down a pole taking you as an easier route to ground.

277 is saving transformer winding copper, copper in the walls. more

plastic insulation, but most commercial/industrial wire is 600+ volts.

Yes, most other devices and their accessories are grounded. I think emphasis on lightbulbs not being grounded is out of commercial convenience.

Like using Aluminum to replace copper devices and wiring. Its done out of convenience, at the expense of potential damage to property/health.

Namely, you never ever completely know when aluminum will catch fire - where you can be more sure with copper.

On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:


Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

I'd like to correct your thinking above.

While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current
than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,
it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly
could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even
50 amps continuously.



Mikek

On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:51:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

"do your job right and make sure fixtures are grounded".

It doesn't mean you need a ground wire, conduit and metallic whips are
good enough at least here in Chicago where we have strict (and good)
electrical codes. Garbage like stapled down romex and plastic boxes are
not allowed here. I'm not sure why they're allowed anywhere.

Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon
type?

Ive been doing a job for the past 8 days..transforming a large machine
shop to an upholstery shop. After the walls were framed for the
offices and store rooms..I ran Carlon conduit and boxes and then ran
everything to the existing metallic bus tray and then wired all the
variouis circuits back to the breaker panels. Inspectors were very
happy with the work and the client was tickled that it went so quickly
and well.

One simply has to make sure that the grounding tabs on each outlet and
switch (on some 3 way switches) is properly connected to the green
wire and then run back to the panels in good order.

The lighting in the office was also run in Carlon, the (19) 8 foot
florescent fixtures were run in metallic conduit (existing) and
duplex recepticals installed..and the lights simply plugged into them

Inspectors were happy. Shrug

What took the longest was getting all the compressed air to the
various assembly stages after the compressor room had been framed.
Fortunately..all that main air busway Id installed 8 yrs ago had Ts in
the right places and it was simply a matter of removing the plugs and
running new 1/2" joints, hanging them properly and terminating them in
fittings suitable for attaching QD air fittings.

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

I'd like to correct your thinking above.

While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current

than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

wrote :
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

I'd like to correct your thinking above.

While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current

than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

Please do not post rubbish.
There are some people trying to learn here.

The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.
Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse
than 120 and 270 ia worse.
The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.

Please go and learn some basic electricity before you make foolish
statements. :-?

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon
type?"


For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.

I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.

On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:49:45 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:
wrote :

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:



Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less

dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?



I'd like to correct your thinking above.



While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current



than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,



it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.



The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly



could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even



50 amps continuously.



In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is

dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.



Please do not post rubbish.

There are some people trying to learn here.



The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.

Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse

than 120 and 270 ia worse.

The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.



Please go and learn some basic electricity before you make foolish

statements. :-?

John, why don't you quit lying to these people and admit that the amount of wattage does have a bearing on the risk of electrocution?

(actually you admitted that when you said voltage above 50 is dangerous - and even that is off - voltage above 5mv is considered dangerous - but keep learning - that's good of you)

On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet
rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic
ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it
without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run
plastic boxes aren't the way to go.

Also, plastic boxes have less potential than metal boxes/rings. The (grounded)box and ring's higher potential means less risk.

explained on 20/07/2014 :
On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:49:45 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:
wrote :

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:


Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?


I'd like to correct your thinking above.


While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current


than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,


it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.


The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly


could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even


50 amps continuously.



In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.



Please do not post rubbish.

There are some people trying to learn here.



The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.

Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse

than 120 and 270 ia worse.

The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.



Please go and learn some basic electricity before you make foolish

statements. :-?

John, why don't you quit lying to these people and admit that the amount of
wattage does have a bearing on the risk of electrocution?

(actually you admitted that when you said voltage above 50 is dangerous - and
even that is off - voltage above 5mv is considered dangerous - but keep
learning - that's good of you)

Could please explain wehich wattage you consider dangerous?

no matter which voltage you chose the available wattage on agrid
connected line is more than you can measure, be it at 120 volts or 277
or 415 or 33 kv the wattage available is near enough for all intents
and purposes infinate. :-?

where did you measure 5 mv? :-?

wrote :
On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet
rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic
ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it
without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run
plastic boxes aren't the way to go.

Also, plastic boxes have less potential than metal boxes/rings. The
(grounded)box and ring's higher potential means less risk.

Again you demonstrate you know absoultly nothing about electricity.
Please explain the potential of a plastic box. :-Z

John G fired this volley in
. au:

John, why don't you quit lying to these people and admit that the
amount of wattage does have a bearing on the risk of electrocution?

Who the **** said THAT?

That's the most inane thing I've ever heard, and indicates the poster has
absolutely no knowledge of electricity or electronics. Maybe even "no
knowledge" whatsoever.

LLoyd

John G fired this volley in news:7a-
:

Also, plastic boxes have less potential than metal boxes/rings. The
(grounded)box and ring's higher potential means less risk.


I understand John G did not post this, but:

AGAIN, an idiot, posting stupidity that has no place in electrical work.
"Potential" to friggin' WHAT?

This person is both a poser and endangering folks who know nothing of
electrician's work, electricity, or maybe even 'work' of any kind.

Lloyd

On 2014-07-19, John G wrote:
wrote :
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

[ ... ]

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

Please do not post rubbish.
There are some people trying to learn here.

The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.
Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse
than 120 and 270 ia worse.
The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.

And, while the initial resistance will be a function mostly of
the moisture and salinity of the hands contacting the voltage source,
once the initial current starts to flow, the skin breaks down and the
resistance drops rapidly -- and the more the voltage, the more rapidly
the resistance drops. And the current needed for a fatal dosage is well
below the trip current levels of commercial circuit breakers. (I do
have some glass cartridge fuses rated at 1/100 Amp (10 mA) which should
be enough to protect you -- but not enough to allow most equipment to
operate, so that is why I still have those fuses unused. :-)

Please go and learn some basic electricity before you make foolish
statements. :-?

Amen,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 20 Jul 2014 00:52:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-07-19, John G wrote:
wrote :
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

[ ... ]

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

Please do not post rubbish.
There are some people trying to learn here.

The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.
Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse
than 120 and 270 ia worse.
The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.

And, while the initial resistance will be a function mostly of
the moisture and salinity of the hands contacting the voltage source,
once the initial current starts to flow, the skin breaks down and the
resistance drops rapidly -- and the more the voltage, the more rapidly
the resistance drops. And the current needed for a fatal dosage is well
below the trip current levels of commercial circuit breakers. (I do
have some glass cartridge fuses rated at 1/100 Amp (10 mA) which should
be enough to protect you -- but not enough to allow most equipment to
operate, so that is why I still have those fuses unused. :-)

Anecdotally, 240 is safer because it will kick you off more quickly
than 120v. If you fall into wires and complete the circuit, you'll be
dead more quickly, but brushes against it are, IMHO, safer, and I'd
rather work with 240 than 120 for that reason. 5mil nitrile gloves are
a part of my DVM package, and I wear them when working with live
circuits. You can feel the voltage start to bite through them and
move your mostly-water body parts quickly out of contact. When
convenient (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the time), I shut off the breaker.
I have a healthy respect for deadly but wonderful electricity.

CAVEAT: Kids, don't try this at home.

--
Liberalism is the result of severe pathogens in our society.

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 6:05:23 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
John G fired this volley in news:7a-

:

Also, plastic boxes have less potential than metal boxes/rings. The

(grounded)box and ring's higher potential means less risk.

I understand John G did not post this, but:

AGAIN, an idiot, posting stupidity that has no place in electrical work.

"Potential" to friggin' WHAT?

DUH !!! Loud the ROCKHEAD. Go take a class.

This person is both a poser and endangering folks who know nothing of

electrician's work, electricity, or maybe even 'work' of any kind.

You probably don't even know why the HELL I posted anything about potential. You are a THIRD GRADE dropout.

Get lost.

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:53:47 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:
wrote :

On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:







"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon



type?"











For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet

rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic

ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it

without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run

plastic boxes aren't the way to go.



Also, plastic boxes have less potential than metal boxes/rings. The

(grounded)box and ring's higher potential means less risk.





Again you demonstrate you know absoultly nothing about electricity.

Please explain the potential of a plastic box. :-Z

Rather than get people on here to clean your rear. How about you actually take a class and actually LEARN SOMETHING like jon has been asking most of the people here to do ??

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:50:58 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:
explained on 20/07/2014 :

On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:49:45 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:

wrote :

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:





Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less

dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?





I'd like to correct your thinking above.





While it is true, that a light using 277 Volts will draw less current





than a light using 120 Volts, assuming equal wattage lights,





it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.





The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly





could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even





50 amps continuously.







In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is

dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.







Please do not post rubbish.



There are some people trying to learn here.







The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.



Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse



than 120 and 270 ia worse.



The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.







Please go and learn some basic electricity before you make foolish



statements. :-?



John, why don't you quit lying to these people and admit that the amount of

wattage does have a bearing on the risk of electrocution?



(actually you admitted that when you said voltage above 50 is dangerous - and

even that is off - voltage above 5mv is considered dangerous - but keep

learning - that's good of you)



Could please explain wehich wattage you consider dangerous?

What ever over 5mv you have coming into an interface.

In ANY kind of electrical situation over 5mvac or dc, you have to think "path back", "path back", "path back". You learn that in the third year of electrical school (which is grounding).

no matter which voltage you chose the available wattage on agrid

connected line is more than you can measure, be it at 120 volts or 277

or 415 or 33 kv the wattage available is near enough for all intents

and purposes infinate. :-?

No its not, because its limited to measurement within an hour. That's why you say Kilowatt Hour.

power (watts) = current (amps) x potential difference (volts) or
P=IE (if you went to electrical school)

Lets say service is residential 2 phase (of 500kcm) to main panel (I guess you have a 60 amp breaker if you are familiar with the industry). That's 240v. You've got all neutral wire connected to the main panel BOX.

You use number 8 wire to the oven. You use 12/3 MC (or 10/3 MC if you are expensive) all armored everywhere else, to increase potential to all branches and roughed-in high voltage device rings.

where did you measure 5 mv? :-?

Where ever it is measured on the property MINUS VAR. Because that's resistance of volt amps.

Anything below 5 millivolts is not harmful to persons/property (including VARs). Its in anyNEC.

In other words, the more metal there is between that 5mv+ and the main panel's box, itself the more potential to a path back (which means less potential for a live person to get in the way)

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 6:02:28 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
John G fired this volley in

. au:



John, why don't you quit lying to these people and admit that the

amount of wattage does have a bearing on the risk of electrocution?



Who the **** said THAT?

If you had more than two brain cells, you'd know.

What do you think I do every day? Sit here in front of video games, eat and get drunk all day.

On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.



I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.

Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.

Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through it.

Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.

And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 1:51:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:







"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon



type?"











For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.







I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.



Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.



Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through it.



Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.



And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.

Right, I'm not an electrician and I don't claim to be.

At one point I owned a lot of rental property. I never experienced rodents chewing through metal electrical boxes. Not saying it can't happen but my guess is it's very rare.

I have experienced a fair amount of plastic electrical boxes cracking from abuse. I don't see a good reason to use plastic electrical boxes.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.



I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.

Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.

Actually..I was a licensed electrician here in California for over a
decade. C-7/C10

Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through it.
Yes they can. Assuming one has rodents. Given most of So California
has few rats (more possems than anything else)..its not a
concern..particularly in industrial areas where bait boxes are placed
in every..every industrial complex..to make sure rats are are indeed
kept rare. It also works nicely on other rodents such as mice,
gophers, etc etc.

Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.

And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.

Unless one runs a ground wire and attaches it properly to each device
in needed applications.

California CODE states that in industrial premises...Carlon type
conduit OR metallic conduit IS required in wooden walls. Given that
it also requires 1/2'- 5/8" sheet rock be added to both sides of an
external wall...covering said conduit..and given that said conduit
would be required to run long spans through wall studs...Carlon or
similar is the obvious choice. As witnessed by a smiling approval of
the building inspector and the proper documents so stated.
"Nice job!"

Was there any other questions?
Ill leave the Banquer commentary alone..with a big knowing grin and a
song in my heart..knowing the poor dumb ******* still cant find a
job..in an industry he has hovered around for 2+ decades.

Gunner




--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:00:30 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:







"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon



type?"











For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do.. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.







I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.



Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.



Actually..I was a licensed electrician here in California for over a

decade. C-7/C10



Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through it.

Yes they can. Assuming one has rodents. Given most of So California

has few rats (more possems than anything else)..its not a

concern..particularly in industrial areas where bait boxes are placed

in every..every industrial complex..to make sure rats are are indeed

kept rare. It also works nicely on other rodents such as mice,

gophers, etc etc.



Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.



And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.



Unless one runs a ground wire and attaches it properly to each device

in needed applications.



California CODE states that in industrial premises...Carlon type

conduit OR metallic conduit IS required in wooden walls. Given that

it also requires 1/2'- 5/8" sheet rock be added to both sides of an

external wall...covering said conduit..and given that said conduit

would be required to run long spans through wall studs...Carlon or

similar is the obvious choice. As witnessed by a smiling approval of

the building inspector and the proper documents so stated.

"Nice job!"



Was there any other questions?

Ill leave the Banquer commentary alone..with a big knowing grin and a

song in my heart..knowing the poor dumb ******* still cant find a

job..in an industry he has hovered around for 2+ decades.



Gunner









--

"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.

We're in a great place, just at a bad time."


I'm not looking for work and I'm constantly offered work/jobs.

Mark Wieber is far too lazy and far too stupid to view my open LinkedIn group, CADCAM Technology Leaders, to see what happens when I am offered work/jobs.

On 7/20/2014 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do. If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the way to go.



I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality work.

Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.

Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through it.

Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.

And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.

Another issue is the British 'ground' lights to turn them on. The
switch is in the up position for off and the wall switch in the down
position turns on the lights. They are a 220v hot wire single phase system.

I found this when a Scottish professor - just from over the pond - would
come into classroom and turn off the lights. Interesting in the
winter and almost a who cares in the summer.

He trained up and was turning Texan when he transferred back to the UK
for yet another R&D experiment... He loved complex tasks.

We were tasked during his stay for several parts of different r&D for
the government. One was a neutron Gun. So we made one.
It was dangerous as all get out - We had a 'block house' to fire it into
and a closed tunnel to hold the gun.

Line of defense - 2-4" thick paraffin blocks. It is a sponge!

Martin

On 7/20/2014 7:50 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 20 Jul 2014 00:52:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-07-19, John G wrote:
wrote :
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

[ ... ]

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

Please do not post rubbish.
There are some people trying to learn here.

The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.
Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse
than 120 and 270 ia worse.
The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.

And, while the initial resistance will be a function mostly of
the moisture and salinity of the hands contacting the voltage source,
once the initial current starts to flow, the skin breaks down and the
resistance drops rapidly -- and the more the voltage, the more rapidly
the resistance drops. And the current needed for a fatal dosage is well
below the trip current levels of commercial circuit breakers. (I do
have some glass cartridge fuses rated at 1/100 Amp (10 mA) which should
be enough to protect you -- but not enough to allow most equipment to
operate, so that is why I still have those fuses unused. :-)

Anecdotally, 240 is safer because it will kick you off more quickly
than 120v. If you fall into wires and complete the circuit, you'll be
dead more quickly, but brushes against it are, IMHO, safer, and I'd
rather work with 240 than 120 for that reason. 5mil nitrile gloves are
a part of my DVM package, and I wear them when working with live
circuits. You can feel the voltage start to bite through them and
move your mostly-water body parts quickly out of contact. When
convenient (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the time), I shut off the breaker.
I have a healthy respect for deadly but wonderful electricity.

CAVEAT: Kids, don't try this at home.

--
Liberalism is the result of severe pathogens in our society.

I had a friend years ago who's dad was a licensed electrician. Actually
2. Taught Electronics and dads push the 'new' stuff on the kids.

Anyway he was working in the Engineering building and with the cover off
a 880v 3 phase box - he was working the box hot. Normal. Power down
all sorts of expensive machines on those lines... He dropped his
screwdriver down into the panel. Vaporized the steel, plated his face
and upper body - his glasses in side of his goggles saved his eyes.
He was in tough shape for a month or so at the hospital.

One has to be careful. Now they sell Be metal drivers and coated drivers.

Martin

Martin Eastburn wrote on 21/07/2014 :
On 7/20/2014 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:54:43 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:



"Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?"





For starters when plastic boxes crack you have to remove the sheet rock
around them to replace them. Metal boxes don't crack like plastic ones do.
If you strip the thread in a metal box you can retread it without having
to remove it. If you are in it for the long run plastic boxes aren't the
way to go.



I seriously doubt Mark Wieber is capable of doing any kind of quality
work.

Clearly absolutely NO BODY on this particular thread is a licensed
electrician. Then again, I guess no one claimed it.

Rodents can chew through everything. Even metal. So plastic that was
fitted with the fried chicken greasy hands he just finished using from
lunchtime will attract rodents after finished work who can motor through
it.

Rodents hurt their gums when they try to chew through sheet metal studs and
pot metal couplings, end caps, connectors, boxes, etc.

And yes, everything should be grounded. That reduces a person own
potential to be hit with electrocution of 5 millivolts or more. The less
use of non-metallic non-conductor, the better.

Another issue is the British 'ground' lights to turn them on. The switch is
in the up position for off and the wall switch in the down position turns on
the lights. They are a 220v hot wire single phase system.

I do not understand why you say the British "GROUND" lights to turn
them on.
A lot of the world turns the switch DOWN to turn things on but the
switch is still in the Active line.
The rules say they are 230 volts but England like Australia is still
largly 240 Volts even though the Harmonisation says 230 for high
voltage countries and 120 for lo voltage countries like the USA.
In Aus the rules require a Ground wire to every light fitting, plastic
or metal, so that if the fitting is changed it can be grounded.
The ground wire plays no part in the operation it, as in most counties,
England included only a safety ground.

I found this when a Scottish professor - just from over the pond - would come
into classroom and turn off the lights. Interesting in the
winter and almost a who cares in the summer.

He trained up and was turning Texan when he transferred back to the UK
for yet another R&D experiment... He loved complex tasks.

We were tasked during his stay for several parts of different r&D for the
government. One was a neutron Gun. So we made one.
It was dangerous as all get out - We had a 'block house' to fire it into
and a closed tunnel to hold the gun.

Line of defense - 2-4" thick paraffin blocks. It is a sponge!

Martin

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:

He dropped his

screwdriver down into the panel. Vaporized the steel, plated his face

and upper body - his glasses in side of his goggles saved his eyes.


He was in tough shape for a month or so at the hospital.

One has to be careful. Now they sell Be metal drivers and coated drivers.

That's a tear-jerker. On some job sites, you might even see an actual face shield or two.

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:51:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

"do your job right and make sure fixtures are grounded".

It doesn't mean you need a ground wire, conduit and metallic whips are
good enough at least here in Chicago where we have strict (and good)
electrical codes. Garbage like stapled down romex and plastic boxes are
not allowed here. I'm not sure why they're allowed anywhere.

Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon
type?

Everything? Same for romex.

you can damage the heck out of plastic stuff and not know it even happened
until the place goes up in flames. That garbage offers virtually no
protection in the case of idiots shooting deck screws into everything or
any sort of fire caused by a bad connection or some othe fault.

Even copper pipes are really easy to damage and pierce with those
rediculously sharp fasteners people use these days.

A coworker had some mega flood in their place that was traced to folks
upstairs up in the building having new kitchen cabinets mounted right into
the water pipes. It somehow took days or or even a week before the
affected pipes finally ripped open. Should the contactor have been more
careful? yeah, but stuff like this happens, and flooding and electrical
fires in your walls are not nice things to have.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:42:58 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 7/20/2014 7:50 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 20 Jul 2014 00:52:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-07-19, John G wrote:
wrote :
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42:43 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/15/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:

Overhead commercial lighting voltage is 277 so its less current and less
dangerous, but what if a contractor is still more picky?

[ ... ]

it is false, that 277 Volts is safer than 120 Volts.

The 277 volt line may only deliver 1 amp to the light, it most certainly

could deliver several hundred amps for a short time and 20, 30 or even

50 amps continuously.

In any event, the power of commercial (even residential) wattage is
dangerous, but with more of it in voltage, its safer.

Please do not post rubbish.
There are some people trying to learn here.

The wattage used has no bearing on the risk of electrocution.
Any voltage above about 50 is considered dangerous and 240 is worse
than 120 and 270 ia worse.
The current will be dependant on the circuit resistance.

And, while the initial resistance will be a function mostly of
the moisture and salinity of the hands contacting the voltage source,
once the initial current starts to flow, the skin breaks down and the
resistance drops rapidly -- and the more the voltage, the more rapidly
the resistance drops. And the current needed for a fatal dosage is well
below the trip current levels of commercial circuit breakers. (I do
have some glass cartridge fuses rated at 1/100 Amp (10 mA) which should
be enough to protect you -- but not enough to allow most equipment to
operate, so that is why I still have those fuses unused. :-)

Anecdotally, 240 is safer because it will kick you off more quickly
than 120v. If you fall into wires and complete the circuit, you'll be
dead more quickly, but brushes against it are, IMHO, safer, and I'd
rather work with 240 than 120 for that reason. 5mil nitrile gloves are
a part of my DVM package, and I wear them when working with live
circuits. You can feel the voltage start to bite through them and
move your mostly-water body parts quickly out of contact. When
convenient (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the time), I shut off the breaker.
I have a healthy respect for deadly but wonderful electricity.

CAVEAT: Kids, don't try this at home.

--
Liberalism is the result of severe pathogens in our society.

I had a friend years ago who's dad was a licensed electrician. Actually
2. Taught Electronics and dads push the 'new' stuff on the kids.

Anyway he was working in the Engineering building and with the cover off
a 880v 3 phase box - he was working the box hot. Normal. Power down
all sorts of expensive machines on those lines... He dropped his
screwdriver down into the panel. Vaporized the steel, plated his face
and upper body - his glasses in side of his goggles saved his eyes.
He was in tough shape for a month or so at the hospital.

One has to be careful. Now they sell Be metal drivers and coated drivers.

Yes, one does. My little welding event with 240v was in the
engineering dept at Southcom (manpack radio mfgr, not military) when I
forgot to unplug the power cord from the power supplies I was testing
and one loose lead hit the other. The entire engr dept went down. My
trip back to the QA dept was colored crimson and my name was mud for
weeks. The quick arc didn't do my eyes any permanent damage,
thankfully, nor did the event burn me.

Lesson learned: Don't get ahead of yourself when you're doing
repetitive, boring jobs. Complacency can be expensive.

--
Liberalism is the result of severe pathogens in our society.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:13:08 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:51:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".

I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?

"do your job right and make sure fixtures are grounded".

It doesn't mean you need a ground wire, conduit and metallic whips are
good enough at least here in Chicago where we have strict (and good)
electrical codes. Garbage like stapled down romex and plastic boxes are
not allowed here. I'm not sure why they're allowed anywhere.

Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon
type?

Everything? Same for romex.

you can damage the heck out of plastic stuff and not know it even happened
until the place goes up in flames. That garbage offers virtually no
protection in the case of idiots shooting deck screws into everything or
any sort of fire caused by a bad connection or some othe fault.

True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through
point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_170196-166-K...ductId=3691958

http://www.lowes.com/pd_4858-72913-N...1089403&rpp=32



Even copper pipes are really easy to damage and pierce with those
rediculously sharp fasteners people use these days.

See the above plates.

A coworker had some mega flood in their place that was traced to folks
upstairs up in the building having new kitchen cabinets mounted right into
the water pipes. It somehow took days or or even a week before the
affected pipes finally ripped open. Should the contactor have been more
careful? yeah, but stuff like this happens, and flooding and electrical
fires in your walls are not nice things to have.

They didnt use nail plates did they?

Gunner





--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:


True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through
point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.


Don't waste your breath. These are the same idiots that think you cannot
remove a plastic box from the wall without ripping out the drywall.

I wonder if they've ever tried to remove a steel box from behind the
finish!

I wonder if they've ever explored an "old work box" for repairs.

These are the same idiots that think 'wattage' corresponds to 'shock
potential'.

Obviously, they're dealing with the "mystical electrik fluids" of pre-
Faraday times.

I like metal boxes, too, for their durability and fastener resistance,
but there's not a whit of fact in any of the bull**** they've been
spouting.

Lloyd

On Monday, July 21, 2014 4:06:03 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:13:08 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

wrote:



Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:51:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

wrote:



wrote:

This is the only website that I saw regarding "grounded lightbulbs".



I know its tacky, but if a contractor even asks about grounding lightbulbs and fuses, what would any of you say?



"do your job right and make sure fixtures are grounded".



It doesn't mean you need a ground wire, conduit and metallic whips are

good enough at least here in Chicago where we have strict (and good)

electrical codes. Garbage like stapled down romex and plastic boxes are

not allowed here. I'm not sure why they're allowed anywhere.



Whats wrong with plastic boxes..both the gray type and the Carlon

type?



Everything? Same for romex.



you can damage the heck out of plastic stuff and not know it even happened

until the place goes up in flames. That garbage offers virtually no

protection in the case of idiots shooting deck screws into everything or

any sort of fire caused by a bad connection or some othe fault.



True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through

point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.



http://www.lowes.com/pd_170196-166-K...ductId=3691958



http://www.lowes.com/pd_4858-72913-N...1089403&rpp=32







Even copper pipes are really easy to damage and pierce with those

rediculously sharp fasteners people use these days.



See the above plates.



A coworker had some mega flood in their place that was traced to folks

upstairs up in the building having new kitchen cabinets mounted right into

the water pipes. It somehow took days or or even a week before the

affected pipes finally ripped open. Should the contactor have been more

careful? yeah, but stuff like this happens, and flooding and electrical

fires in your walls are not nice things to have.



They didnt use nail plates did they?



Gunner











--

"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.

We're in a great place, just at a bad time."


In the Mark Wieber clique of idiot world all the extra labor to put in nail plates, etc. means nothing. Labor is free!

Plastic junction boxes suck and metal ones don't cost a lot more.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:10:30 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:


True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through
point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.


Don't waste your breath. These are the same idiots that think you cannot
remove a plastic box from the wall without ripping out the drywall.

I wonder if they've ever tried to remove a steel box from behind the
finish!

I wonder if they've ever explored an "old work box" for repairs.

These are the same idiots that think 'wattage' corresponds to 'shock
potential'.

Obviously, they're dealing with the "mystical electrik fluids" of pre-
Faraday times.

I like metal boxes, too, for their durability and fastener resistance,
but there's not a whit of fact in any of the bull**** they've been
spouting.

Lloyd


Well stated.

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:42:55 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:10:30 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:



Gunner Asch fired this volley in

:





True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through

point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.





Don't waste your breath. These are the same idiots that think you cannot

remove a plastic box from the wall without ripping out the drywall.



I wonder if they've ever tried to remove a steel box from behind the

finish!



I wonder if they've ever explored an "old work box" for repairs.



These are the same idiots that think 'wattage' corresponds to 'shock

potential'.



Obviously, they're dealing with the "mystical electrik fluids" of pre-

Faraday times.



I like metal boxes, too, for their durability and fastener resistance,

but there's not a whit of fact in any of the bull**** they've been

spouting.



Lloyd





Well stated.



Gunner



--

"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.

We're in a great place, just at a bad time."


No it's not well stated.

It's typical Loud bull**** and Mark Wieber ass kissing.

On 7/20/2014 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:50:58 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:
explained on 20/07/2014 :


Where ever it is measured on the property MINUS VAR. Because that's resistance of volt amps.

Anything below 5 millivolts is not harmful to persons/property (including VARs). Its in any NEC.

In other words, the more metal there is between that 5mv+ and the main panel's box,

itself the more potential to a path back (which means less potential for
a live person to get in the way)


Most of what I snipped was wrong or not understandable.

Higher voltages are more apt to deliver more current through your body,
PERIOD.

One thing I think I see you saying is, you are placing your body as the
return line for the 240V device. So if we consider a TV that uses
120 Watts, At 240 volts the TV would draw 500 milliamps, at 120 volts
it would draw 1000 milliamps. If you put your body in the return line
you might think you are safer at 240 Volts.
The resistance of the human body in contact with a electrified metal
part can very greatly from 500 ohms immersed in water to 1 million ohms
on dry skin. So I'll pick 15,000 ohms for each body/conductor
connection, for a total of 30,000 ohms.
A 120 Watt, 240 volt TV is equivalent to a 480 ohm resistance.
A 120 Watt, 120 Volt TV is equivalent to a 120 ohm resistance.

If we add the TV's resistance to the body/conductor connection we get,
30,480 ohms for the 240 Volt circuit, and 30,120 ohms for the 120 Volt
circuit.
If you do the math, the 240 Volt circuit has a current flow through
your body of 7.8 milliamps.
The 120 volt circuit has a current flow through your body of
3.98 milliamps.
Using your 5mv number 240 Volts is deadly, 120 Volts is not.

If I did not understand correctly that your thinking is, "you are
placing your body as the return line" then all of the above is still
relevant but may not have given you the info you need for understanding.

If you don't understand how I did the math to get the numbers please
ask and I will type it out.

Mikek

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:28:45 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 7/20/2014 11:33 AM, wrote:

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:50:58 PM UTC-4, John G wrote:

explained on 20/07/2014 :

Where ever it is measured on the property MINUS VAR. Because that's resistance of volt amps.



Anything below 5 millivolts is not harmful to persons/property (including VARs). Its in any NEC.



In other words, the more metal there is between that 5mv+ and the main panel's box,



itself the more potential to a path back (which means less potential for

a live person to get in the way)

Most of what I snipped was wrong or not understandable.



Higher voltages are more apt to deliver more current through your body,

PERIOD.



One thing I think I see you saying is, you are placing your body as the

return line for the 240V device. So if we consider a TV that uses

120 Watts, At 240 volts the TV would draw 500 milliamps, at 120 volts

it would draw 1000 milliamps. If you put your body in the return line

you might think you are safer at 240 Volts.

The resistance of the human body in contact with a electrified metal

part can very greatly from 500 ohms immersed in water to 1 million ohms

on dry skin. So I'll pick 15,000 ohms for each body/conductor

connection, for a total of 30,000 ohms.

A 120 Watt, 240 volt TV is equivalent to a 480 ohm resistance.

A 120 Watt, 120 Volt TV is equivalent to a 120 ohm resistance.



If we add the TV's resistance to the body/conductor connection we get,

30,480 ohms for the 240 Volt circuit, and 30,120 ohms for the 120 Volt

circuit.

If you do the math, the 240 Volt circuit has a current flow through

your body of 7.8 milliamps.

The 120 volt circuit has a current flow through your body of

3.98 milliamps.

Using your 5mv number 240 Volts is deadly, 120 Volts is not.



If I did not understand correctly that your thinking is, "you are

placing your body as the return line" then all of the above is still

relevant but may not have given you the info you need for understanding.

If you don't understand how I did the math to get the numbers please

ask and I will type it out.

The whole problem is that no one here is mentioning the NEC. Don't use your own figuring. Instead, use examples from the NEC. Discard your "figuring".

Here is something from an NEC study guide which is what I meant.

"Nonmetallic boxes are not permitted to be used with a metallic wiring method because there is no way to maintain the electrical continuity of the effective ground"

-- http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarch...s~20050510.php (2nd question - answer)

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:00:08 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:42:55 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:10:30 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"



lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:







Gunner Asch fired this volley in



:











True. Which is why one puts wiring protectors on every pass through



point on each stud. One on each side of the stud.











Don't waste your breath. These are the same idiots that think you cannot



remove a plastic box from the wall without ripping out the drywall.







I wonder if they've ever tried to remove a steel box from behind the



finish!







I wonder if they've ever explored an "old work box" for repairs.







These are the same idiots that think 'wattage' corresponds to 'shock



potential'.







Obviously, they're dealing with the "mystical electrik fluids" of pre-



Faraday times.







I like metal boxes, too, for their durability and fastener resistance,



but there's not a whit of fact in any of the bull**** they've been



spouting.







Lloyd











Well stated.







Gunner







--



"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.



We're in a great place, just at a bad time."





No it's not well stated.




It's typical Loud bull**** and Mark Wieber ass kissing.

Sigh. Let them both stay in the stone age.