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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Frank McKenney -- A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905) -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#2
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:
As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an dishwasher. Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the blade downwards. Did work for me and others in the family for years :-) -- Uffe |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in
: My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones picked again next time one is needed. Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer than five ever show any signs of wear. Lloyd |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote: Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle. Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a few of the knives may be the answer. But this may be the answer: ... http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy, although epoxy may be what's used these days. The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and maximum strength. Joe Gwinn |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 06:04:27 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in k: My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones picked again next time one is needed. Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer than five ever show any signs of wear. That's the way it is here. I've swapped out two steak knives which got loose from so much wear, but the closest slot to the sink is the knife which gets picked time and again. The worn knives went to the back row farthest away from the sink, where I usually open the steak or roast to let the package bleed and rinse the meat before seasoning and cooking. -- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote: In article , Frnak McKenney wrote: Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle. Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a few of the knives may be the answer. But this may be the answer: .. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy, although epoxy may be what's used these days. The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and maximum strength. Joe Gwinn I recommend Sauereisen cement but I have no idea about where to buy a small quantity. http://www.sauereisen.com/AdhesivesP...Compounds.aspx |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
In article ,
wrote: On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn wrote: In article , Frnak McKenney wrote: Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle. Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a few of the knives may be the answer. But this may be the answer: .. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy, although epoxy may be what's used these days. The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and maximum strength. Joe Gwinn I recommend Sauereisen cement but I have no idea about where to buy a small quantity. http://www.sauereisen.com/AdhesivesPottingCompounds.aspx It's good cement, but I doubt that this is what's used. I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's illegal now, because litharge in lead oxide. Joe Gwinn |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
: I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's illegal now, because litharge in lead oxide. A good cement that isn't toxic is the old "pyro cement" of ages past. White, hard as stone, and sticks to almost everything. Calcium carbonate with enough sodium silicate added to make a thick syrup. Lloyd |
#9
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
In article , Lloyd
E. Sponenburgh wrote: Joe Gwinn fired this volley in : I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's illegal now, because litharge is lead oxide. A good cement that isn't toxic is the old "pyro cement" of ages past. White, hard as stone, and sticks to almost everything. Calcium carbonate with enough sodium silicate added to make a thick syrup. Never heard of pyro cement, though I had heard of various cements involving sodium silicate. Some google fu yielded two things, one a composition of shellac and black powder, used to stick fuses to pyrotechnic star shells and the like, the other being one part zinc oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium silicate) to make a slurry. The key question will be resistance to dishwasher detergents, especially phosphates and their phosphorus-free replacements. I bet my old Handbook of Chemistry and Physics will have a formula or two. But I bet they didn't consider dishwashers. Joe Gwinn |
#10
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
"Uffe Bærentsen" wrote in message ... Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev: As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an dishwasher. Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the blade downwards. Did work for me and others in the family for years :-) -- Uffe They use epoxy nowadays and if yours are epoxied in, I wouldn't mess with them until the blades actually fall out. Traditionally, they used a proprietary mix of rosin, wax, shellac and a filler like plaster or brickdust. It was called "Handle cement" and is easily repaired. It is kind of like sealing wax (the kind you used to melt onto the back of a letter and stamp with a seal). You have to be careful though. It absorbs moisture over the years and will foam up and spit the blade out when remelted. The trick is to melt as little as possible. The tang on the blade is usually just a rough forged rod, about 3mm in dia and about 2" (50mm) long. Wear gloves, use a propane torch and gently heat the 2" section of the handle and the bottom of the blade. Heat a little, then wait for the heat to soak into the middle and repeat. When it gets around 250 f (rough guess) it will start to push the blade out. when it does shove the parts together and be sure to pay attention to the alignment. When it is all good, hold still for a couple of minutes while the cement cools down, then run the handle under lukewarm water. Excess cement will have oozed out. Chip it off with your thumbnail, any excess can be removed with alcohol. Paul K. Dickman |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
: the other being one part zinc oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium silicate) to make a slurry. That's the one, but my understanding was that the zinc oxide is not active, but only a pigment to whiten up the mix. Of course, I've not made any in probably four decades, and don't remember if it was necessary or not. In any case, ZnO is not toxic, either. This cement does not dry, but cures, and (IIRC) is waterproof after curing. Lloyd |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:24:40 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen wrote:
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev: As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an dishwasher. Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the blade downwards. Did work for me and others in the family for years :-) Thanks, Uffe. Do you have any idea why that would make a difference? I suppose that, once any separation existed between the blade and handle, it would encourage water to drip out rather than collect. Frank -- "Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are good is like expecting the bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian." -- Dennis Wholey -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#13
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 06:04:27 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in : My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones picked again next time one is needed. Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer than five ever show any signs of wear. Lloyd Good thought. I do notice that I use the same two table knives over and over, pulling them out of the drainer and ignoring the ones in the drawer. Frank -- "A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, "The one I feed the most." -- George Bernard Shaw -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#14
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014 14:00:43 -0600, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Uffe Bærentsen" wrote in message ... Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev: As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". [...] Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? [...] They use epoxy nowadays and if yours are epoxied in, I wouldn't mess with them until the blades actually fall out. Traditionally, they used a proprietary mix of rosin, wax, shellac and a filler like plaster or brickdust. It was called "Handle cement" and is easily repaired. It is kind of like sealing wax (the kind you used to melt onto the back of a letter and stamp with a seal). You have to be careful though. It absorbs moisture over the years and will foam up and spit the blade out when remelted. The trick is to melt as little as possible. Thanks for the warning. The tang on the blade is usually just a rough forged rod, about 3mm in dia and about 2" (50mm) long. Wear gloves, use a propane torch and gently heat the 2" section of the handle and the bottom of the blade. Heat a little, then wait for the heat to soak into the middle and repeat. When it gets around 250 f (rough guess) it will start to push the blade out. when it does shove the parts together and be sure to pay attention to the alignment. When it is all good, hold still for a couple of minutes while the cement cools down, then run the handle under lukewarm water. Excess cement will have oozed out. Chip it off with your thumbnail, any excess can be removed with alcohol. Paul K. Dickman Thanks, Paul. I'll have to check with my cousin and see if she's willing to sacrifice one knife to test this with, but the process you've outlined is clear and specific. ( Is that legal here on on USENET? grin! ) Frank -- "I am Sex of Elven, Borg Dyslexix, prepare to be laminated." -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article , Frnak McKenney wrote: Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle. Thanks, Joe. So you don't think it would vary from manufacturer to manufacturer? In any case, it's worth following up. Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a few of the knives may be the answer. But this may be the answer: .. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html Hm. That describes the substance as a "super strong epoxy", but also describes it as becoming brittle. This stuff, which looks like a thin, custard-coloerd ring, seems to be in good shape. At room temperatures, of course. grin! The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent. Could be, though the epoxy doesn't seem cracked or mottled or pitted. It's as if it partially melted, the blade slipped out a bit, and then tne epoxy re-hardened. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy, although epoxy may be what's used these days. Hm. I'd say two decades or so, perhaps plus a little. ( But I should ask rather than assuming. grin! ) The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and maximum strength. Ah, but what loosens them? ( The epoxies, I mean. ) Anyway, thank you for your comments. Frank -- There are perhaps 5% of the population that simply *can't* think. There are another 5% who *can*, and *do*. The remaining 90% *can* think, but *don't*. -- R. A. Heinlein -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote: Joe Gwinn fired this volley in : the other being one part zinc oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium silicate) to make a slurry. That's the one, but my understanding was that the zinc oxide is not active, but only a pigment to whiten up the mix. Of course, I've not made any in probably four decades, and don't remember if it was necessary or not. In any case, ZnO is not toxic, either. This cement does not dry, but cures, and (IIRC) is waterproof after curing. Do you have any idea what GC tube cement was? It was used to hold vacuum tubes to their Bakelite bases. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#18
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
m: Do you have any idea what GC tube cement was? It was used to hold vacuum tubes to their Bakelite bases. Actually, Michael, I think that was the same goo. It sticks to glass and metal most aggressively. Lloyd |
#19
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:31:26 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote: On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:24:40 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen wrote: Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev: As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an dishwasher. Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the blade downwards. Did work for me and others in the family for years :-) Thanks, Uffe. Do you have any idea why that would make a difference? I suppose that, once any separation existed between the blade and handle, it would encourage water to drip out rather than collect. There's a big pressure differential between the knife handle being directly over the dishwasher nozzle and it being 8" away. There's probably a small temperature differential, too. I hand-wash my dishes and they drip dry in the open dishwasher. -- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu |
#20
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On 2013-12-31, Frnak McKenney wrote:
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Yes! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". [ ... ] Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Maybe only a quarter of the knives were in regular use and thus regularly run through the dishwasher. Sorry that I can't suggest how to fix them. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#21
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote: On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn wrote: In article , Frnak McKenney wrote: Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle. Thanks, Joe. So you don't think it would vary from manufacturer to manufacturer? Things like that usually settle out to a few standard solutions. One does not sell silverware on the beauty of one's handle cement. In any case, it's worth following up. Another place to look is catalogs of jewelry tool suppliers, like Shor Intl Corp: https://www.ishor.com/index.php. (I didn't look for handle cement, but if they don't carry it, I bet they will know who does.) Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a few of the knives may be the answer. But this may be the answer: .. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html Hm. That describes the substance as a "super strong epoxy", but also describes it as becoming brittle. This stuff, which looks like a thin, custard-coloerd ring, seems to be in good shape. At room temperatures, of course. grin! The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent. Could be, though the epoxy doesn't seem cracked or mottled or pitted. It's as if it partially melted, the blade slipped out a bit, and then the epoxy re-hardened. While one can soften a cured epoxy with heat, it will not melt. It is not clear that what you have is an epoxy. Nor do epoxies melt and solidify, unlike the traditional shellac-rosin-brickdust handle cement mentioned elsewhere in this thread. This traditional handle cement is thus a form of hot-melt adhesive. If this is what was used, the handle can be re-affixed by clamping the knife upright such that gravity tends to close the gap, and carefully heating the handle with a heat gun until the cement melts, and then walking away for at least three hours (to ensure complete cooling). Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy, although epoxy may be what's used these days. Hm. I'd say two decades or so, perhaps plus a little. ( But I should ask rather than assuming. grin! ) The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and maximum strength. Ah, but what loosens them? ( The epoxies, I mean. ) Stress while hot can do it. As can inadequate joint design. Slow-cure (overnight) epoxy is far stronger than the 5-minute stuff. But in all cases, cleaning the surfaces to be glued is critical - even a hint of grease will prevent full strength. If one is changing from traditional handle cement to epoxy, removal of all of the old cement is essential. This will require use of solvents. Beware ordinary acetone - it usually has some oil in it; this oil must be removed before epoxy will bond. |
#22
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 at 4:01:27 PM UTC-6, Frnak McKenney wrote:
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Frank McKenney -- A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905) -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
#23
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
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#24
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Classic problem with 2-part knives. We have a bunch of them that are doing the same. There is a cavity in the handle that builds up steam pressure in the dry cycle of the dishwasher. Yes, I'm guessing if you heat them and press the blade back in, it will do the job. These things are so old, I doubt they used epoxy, more liekly some older form of glue. Jon Epoxies came into widespread commercial use around 1950. If it's really old, more likely it's phenolic. None of those thermosets can reliably be released with heat. It depends on the specific chemistry and the percentage of solids; If they're 100% solids, it's unlikely you can release them with heat. I have some of those knives, which have been in the family since 1963. None of them have ever seen the inside of a dishwasher. They're really not up to it. Neither is anything else that contains a lot of silver. -- Ed Huntress |
#25
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:11:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Classic problem with 2-part knives. We have a bunch of them that are doing the same. There is a cavity in the handle that builds up steam pressure in the dry cycle of the dishwasher. Yes, I'm guessing if you heat them and press the blade back in, it will do the job. These things are so old, I doubt they used epoxy, more liekly some older form of glue. Jon Epoxies came into widespread commercial use around 1950. If it's really old, more likely it's phenolic. None of those thermosets can reliably be released with heat. It depends on the specific chemistry and the percentage of solids; If they're 100% solids, it's unlikely you can release them with heat. I have some of those knives, which have been in the family since 1963. None of them have ever seen the inside of a dishwasher. They're really not up to it. Neither is anything else that contains a lot of silver. Ed, Jon, Thanks for the comments. Will pass them along. Frank -- Scientists are people of very dissimilar temperaments doing different things in very different ways. Among scientists are collectors, classifiers and compulsive tidiers-up; many are detectives by temperament and many are explorers; some are artists and others artisans. There are poet-scientists and philosopher-scientists and even a few mystics. ... and most people who are in fact scientists could easily have been something else instead. -- Peter Medawar, "Hypothesis and Imagination" -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank und.scr mckenney aatt mindspring d.ot com |
#26
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote: On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:11:31 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Classic problem with 2-part knives. We have a bunch of them that are doing the same. There is a cavity in the handle that builds up steam pressure in the dry cycle of the dishwasher. Yes, I'm guessing if you heat them and press the blade back in, it will do the job. These things are so old, I doubt they used epoxy, more liekly some older form of glue. Jon Epoxies came into widespread commercial use around 1950. If it's really old, more likely it's phenolic. None of those thermosets can reliably be released with heat. It depends on the specific chemistry and the percentage of solids; If they're 100% solids, it's unlikely you can release them with heat. I have some of those knives, which have been in the family since 1963. None of them have ever seen the inside of a dishwasher. They're really not up to it. Neither is anything else that contains a lot of silver. Ed, Jon, Thanks for the comments. Will pass them along. Frank -- Scientists are people of very dissimilar temperaments doing different things in very different ways. Among scientists are collectors, classifiers and compulsive tidiers-up; many are detectives by temperament and many are explorers; some are artists and others artisans. There are poet-scientists and philosopher-scientists and even a few mystics. ... and most people who are in fact scientists could easily have been something else instead. -- Peter Medawar, "Hypothesis and Imagination" Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ |
#27
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead. Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical. https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess, then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least. If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for better retention. -- In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant. --Charles de Gaulle |
#28
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. Pete Keillor I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead. Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical. https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess, then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least. If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for better retention. |
#29
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 8:47:39 AM UTC-5, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. Pete Keillor I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead. Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical. https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess, then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least. If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for better retention. Be careful with any solvent-borne, evaporating-type adhesive in such an enclosed application. They shrink a lot and not necessarily where you want them to. That's a job for a thermoset, and it's hard to beat a high-quality, 100%-solids industrial epoxy. -- Ed Huntress |
#30
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic. Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by being able to repair the breaks once and for all. -- In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant. --Charles de Gaulle |
#31
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic. Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by being able to repair the breaks once and for all. -- In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant. --Charles de Gaulle Flexible things like shoe soles do just fine with the shrinkage of solvent-born adhesives. Solid, non-yielding things like knife blades and metal handles, which can't even move relative to each other as the adhesive dries, fare less well. The adhesive either pulls away from one or both surfaces you're trying to glue, or it fails in the bulk of the adhesive, tearing itself apart. Use epoxy for this job. -- Ed Huntress |
#32
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:47:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. Damn, Larry, my memory is nowhere near that good. That's current. snip |
#33
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic. Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by being able to repair the breaks once and for all. Yes, liquid nails, bondo with fiberglass and the myriad of stuff like that are great just as long as you clean and rinse both surfaces. |
#34
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 06:02:30 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:47:47 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. Damn, Larry, my memory is nowhere near that good. That's current. g And even the expensive goo doesn't work well when you don't follow the instructions. (See Boston Big Dig Collapse for more info) -- Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling. -- Margaret Lee Runbeck |
#35
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
- hide quoted text - On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote: On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote: wrote: Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement. http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/ That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo. Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz. it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs. As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic. Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by being able to repair the breaks once and for all. Maybe I was wrong. A hot glue gun heats up stuff that you can put on your boots to keep them together. (higher melting point) |
#36
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 at 2:01:27 PM UTC-8, Frnak McKenney wrote:
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin! Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious. As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?) and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8". Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like "heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a quarter of the knives seem to be affected. Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)? It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all! Frank McKenney -- A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905) -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com I have exactly the same problem. Did you ever find an answer? Rex Olsen |
#37
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
I know your post about Gorham knives was a while ago, but did you ever find a solution to your knives separating? I also have a few that have separated and would like to figure out how to fix them.
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#38
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 11:52:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I know your post about Gorham knives was a while ago, but did you ever find a solution to your knives separating? I also have a few that have separated and would like to figure out how to fix them. A good grade of epoxy adhesive should do it. Don't use the quick-acting stuff; it's not very waterproof and some of it won't handle the 140 deg. F or so it will face in a dishwasher. Good epoxy will tolerate over 220 deg. F. -- Ed Huntress |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
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#40
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Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware
On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 1:37:36 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 27, 2018, wrote (in ): On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 11:52:33 AM UTC-5, wrote: I know your post about Gorham knives was a while ago, but did you ever find a solution to your knives separating? I also have a few that have separated and would like to figure out how to fix them. A good grade of epoxy adhesive should do it. Don't use the quick-acting stuff; it's not very waterproof and some of it won't handle the 140 deg.. F or so it will face in a dishwasher. Or 160 F. Good epoxy will tolerate over 220 deg. F. The better performing epoxy must be cured at 180 F or higher. While this does help with hardware-store epoxy, I´d go to an industrial outfit like 3M or Master-Bond or the like, and ask for advice - there are far too many options to consider. May be able to get a sample as well. For a knife, bonding steel to non-steel (with mismatched temperature and (for wood) humidity responses), a toughened (flexible) epoxy is probably needed. Joe Gwinn Excellent advice. -- Ed Huntress |
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