Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware


Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Frank McKenney
--
A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to
be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die
for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for
them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an
dishwasher.
Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with this:
Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the
blade downwards.
Did work for me and others in the family for years :-)

--
Uffe
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Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in
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My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the
household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same
place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones
picked again next time one is needed.

Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer
than five ever show any signs of wear.

Lloyd
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

... http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Joe Gwinn
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 06:04:27 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in
k:

My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the
household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same
place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones
picked again next time one is needed.

Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer
than five ever show any signs of wear.


That's the way it is here. I've swapped out two steak knives which
got loose from so much wear, but the closest slot to the sink is the
knife which gets picked time and again. The worn knives went to the
back row farthest away from the sink, where I usually open the steak
or roast to let the package bleed and rinse the meat before seasoning
and cooking.


--
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu


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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

.. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Joe Gwinn


I recommend Sauereisen cement but I have no idea about where to buy a
small quantity.

http://www.sauereisen.com/AdhesivesP...Compounds.aspx
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In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

.. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Joe Gwinn


I recommend Sauereisen cement but I have no idea about where to buy a
small quantity.

http://www.sauereisen.com/AdhesivesPottingCompounds.aspx


It's good cement, but I doubt that this is what's used.

I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's
illegal now, because litharge in lead oxide.

Joe Gwinn
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Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
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I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's
illegal now, because litharge in lead oxide.


A good cement that isn't toxic is the old "pyro cement" of ages past.

White, hard as stone, and sticks to almost everything.

Calcium carbonate with enough sodium silicate added to make a thick syrup.

Lloyd
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In article , Lloyd
E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

I bet the original cement was litharge-glycerin. but I bet that's
illegal now, because litharge is lead oxide.


A good cement that isn't toxic is the old "pyro cement" of ages past.

White, hard as stone, and sticks to almost everything.

Calcium carbonate with enough sodium silicate added to make a thick syrup.


Never heard of pyro cement, though I had heard of various cements
involving sodium silicate. Some google fu yielded two things, one a
composition of shellac and black powder, used to stick fuses to
pyrotechnic star shells and the like, the other being one part zinc
oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium
silicate) to make a slurry.

The key question will be resistance to dishwasher detergents,
especially phosphates and their phosphorus-free replacements.

I bet my old Handbook of Chemistry and Physics will have a formula or
two. But I bet they didn't consider dishwashers.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware


"Uffe Bærentsen" wrote in message
...
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an
dishwasher.
Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up with
this:
Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be washed with the blade
downwards.
Did work for me and others in the family for years :-)

--
Uffe


They use epoxy nowadays and if yours are epoxied in, I wouldn't mess with
them until the blades actually fall out.

Traditionally, they used a proprietary mix of rosin, wax, shellac and a
filler like plaster or brickdust. It was called "Handle cement" and is
easily repaired. It is kind of like sealing wax (the kind you used to melt
onto the back of a letter and stamp with a seal).

You have to be careful though. It absorbs moisture over the years and will
foam up and spit the blade out when remelted. The trick is to melt as little
as possible.

The tang on the blade is usually just a rough forged rod, about 3mm in dia
and about 2" (50mm) long.

Wear gloves, use a propane torch and gently heat the 2" section of the
handle and the bottom of the blade. Heat a little, then wait for the heat to
soak into the middle and repeat.
When it gets around 250 f (rough guess) it will start to push the blade out.
when it does shove the parts together and be sure to pay attention to the
alignment. When it is all good, hold still for a couple of minutes while the
cement cools down, then run the handle under lukewarm water.

Excess cement will have oozed out. Chip it off with your thumbnail, any
excess can be removed with alcohol.

Paul K. Dickman




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Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
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the other being one part zinc
oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium
silicate) to make a slurry.


That's the one, but my understanding was that the zinc oxide is not
active, but only a pigment to whiten up the mix. Of course, I've not
made any in probably four decades, and don't remember if it was necessary
or not.

In any case, ZnO is not toxic, either.

This cement does not dry, but cures, and (IIRC) is waterproof after
curing.

Lloyd
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On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:24:40 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen wrote:
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an
dishwasher.
Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up
with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be
washed with the blade downwards.
Did work for me and others in the family for years :-)


Thanks, Uffe.

Do you have any idea why that would make a difference? I suppose that,
once any separation existed between the blade and handle, it would
encourage water to drip out rather than collect.


Frank
--
"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are good is
like expecting the bull not to charge because you are a
vegetarian." -- Dennis Wholey
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

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On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 06:04:27 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Uffe Bærentsen fired this volley in
:

My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Normally, only about two or three more knives than the population of the
household ever get used. They get used, washed, and put back in the same
place. By habit and position in the keeping place, they're the ones
picked again next time one is needed.

Over and over. Got ten knives and two people at home? I'll bet fewer
than five ever show any signs of wear.

Lloyd


Good thought. I do notice that I use the same two table knives over
and over, pulling them out of the drainer and ignoring the ones in the
drawer.


Frank
--
"A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles
in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs
is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the
good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected
for a moment and replied, "The one I feed the most."
-- George Bernard Shaw
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

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On Wed, 1 Jan 2014 14:00:43 -0600, Paul K. Dickman wrote:

"Uffe Bærentsen" wrote in message
...
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


[...]

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might
be related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the
"epoxy" (an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


[...]

They use epoxy nowadays and if yours are epoxied in, I wouldn't mess
with them until the blades actually fall out.

Traditionally, they used a proprietary mix of rosin, wax, shellac
and a filler like plaster or brickdust. It was called "Handle
cement" and is easily repaired. It is kind of like sealing wax (the
kind you used to melt onto the back of a letter and stamp with a
seal).

You have to be careful though. It absorbs moisture over the years
and will foam up and spit the blade out when remelted. The trick is
to melt as little as possible.


Thanks for the warning.

The tang on the blade is usually just a rough forged rod, about 3mm
in dia and about 2" (50mm) long.

Wear gloves, use a propane torch and gently heat the 2" section of
the handle and the bottom of the blade. Heat a little, then wait
for the heat to soak into the middle and repeat.
When it gets around 250 f (rough guess) it will start to push the
blade out. when it does shove the parts together and be sure to pay
attention to the alignment. When it is all good, hold still for a
couple of minutes while the cement cools down, then run the handle
under lukewarm water.

Excess cement will have oozed out. Chip it off with your thumbnail,
any excess can be removed with alcohol.

Paul K. Dickman


Thanks, Paul. I'll have to check with my cousin and see if she's
willing to sacrifice one knife to test this with, but the process
you've outlined is clear and specific. ( Is that legal here on on
USENET? grin! )


Frank
--
"I am Sex of Elven, Borg Dyslexix, prepare to be laminated."
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

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On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Thanks, Joe. So you don't think it would vary from manufacturer to
manufacturer?

In any case, it's worth following up.

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

.. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html


Hm. That describes the substance as a "super strong epoxy", but also
describes it as becoming brittle. This stuff, which looks like a
thin, custard-coloerd ring, seems to be in good shape. At room
temperatures, of course. grin!

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Could be, though the epoxy doesn't seem cracked or mottled or pitted.
It's as if it partially melted, the blade slipped out a bit, and then
tne epoxy re-hardened.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.


Hm. I'd say two decades or so, perhaps plus a little. ( But I should
ask rather than assuming. grin! )

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Ah, but what loosens them? ( The epoxies, I mean. )

Anyway, thank you for your comments.


Frank
--
There are perhaps 5% of the population that simply *can't* think.
There are another 5% who *can*, and *do*.
The remaining 90% *can* think, but *don't*. -- R. A. Heinlein
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com



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On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 11:28:44 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

.. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Joe Gwinn


I recommend Sauereisen cement but I have no idea about where to buy a
small quantity.

http://www.sauereisen.com/AdhesivesP...Compounds.aspx


Hm. $65 a quart here, and that's the minimum:

http://www.ellsworth.com/product-lis...sen/8860/9880/

I guess it depends on how much "losing" the little cream-colored band
on her knives is worth, doesn't it?

Thanks.... um, "nobody".


Frank
--
What we're looking for: destinations.
What we end up getting: journeys.
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

the other being one part zinc
oxide, one part calcium carbonate, and sufficient water glass (sodium
silicate) to make a slurry.


That's the one, but my understanding was that the zinc oxide is not
active, but only a pigment to whiten up the mix. Of course, I've not
made any in probably four decades, and don't remember if it was necessary
or not.

In any case, ZnO is not toxic, either.

This cement does not dry, but cures, and (IIRC) is waterproof after
curing.



Do you have any idea what GC tube cement was? It was used to hold
vacuum tubes to their Bakelite bases.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
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"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
m:

Do you have any idea what GC tube cement was? It was used to hold
vacuum tubes to their Bakelite bases.


Actually, Michael, I think that was the same goo. It sticks to glass and
metal most aggressively.

Lloyd
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On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:31:26 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:24:40 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen wrote:
Den 31-12-2013 23:01, Frnak McKenney skrev:

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Not a fix for the knives but an advise for washing such knives in an
dishwasher.
Did see the problem years ago and a member of the family came up
with this: Knives with blades glued into the handles are to be
washed with the blade downwards.
Did work for me and others in the family for years :-)


Thanks, Uffe.

Do you have any idea why that would make a difference? I suppose that,
once any separation existed between the blade and handle, it would
encourage water to drip out rather than collect.


There's a big pressure differential between the knife handle being
directly over the dishwasher nozzle and it being 8" away. There's
probably a small temperature differential, too.

I hand-wash my dishes and they drip dry in the open dishwasher.

--
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On 2013-12-31, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!


Yes!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


[ ... ]

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Maybe only a quarter of the knives were in regular use and thus
regularly run through the dishwasher.

Sorry that I can't suggest how to fix them.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


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In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:34:49 -0500, Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article , Frnak
McKenney wrote:

Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".


The Gorham line apparently still exists, as a part of the Lenox group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham_...turing_Company

More generally, any major jeweler and/or manufacturer of silverware
will know what cement is used, and how to re-cement a loose handle.


Thanks, Joe. So you don't think it would vary from manufacturer to
manufacturer?


Things like that usually settle out to a few standard solutions. One
does not sell silverware on the beauty of one's handle cement.


In any case, it's worth following up.


Another place to look is catalogs of jewelry tool suppliers, like Shor
Intl Corp: https://www.ishor.com/index.php. (I didn't look for
handle cement, but if they don't carry it, I bet they will know who
does.)


Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as good as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


I doubt that a dishwasher can do this to quality silverware, such as
that from Gorham. Lloyd's theory that most of the use is suffered by a
few of the knives may be the answer.

But this may be the answer:

.. http://www.silversuperstore.com/faq/silverware_9.html


Hm. That describes the substance as a "super strong epoxy", but also
describes it as becoming brittle. This stuff, which looks like a
thin, custard-coloerd ring, seems to be in good shape. At room
temperatures, of course. grin!

The effect of the dishwasher may be chemical, caused by the detergent.


Could be, though the epoxy doesn't seem cracked or mottled or pitted.
It's as if it partially melted, the blade slipped out a bit, and then
the epoxy re-hardened.


While one can soften a cured epoxy with heat, it will not melt. It is
not clear that what you have is an epoxy. Nor do epoxies melt and
solidify, unlike the traditional shellac-rosin-brickdust handle cement
mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

This traditional handle cement is thus a form of hot-melt adhesive.

If this is what was used, the handle can be re-affixed by clamping the
knife upright such that gravity tends to close the gap, and carefully
heating the handle with a heat gun until the cement melts, and then
walking away for at least three hours (to ensure complete cooling).


Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?


Depending on the age of the silverware, it may or may not be epoxy,
although epoxy may be what's used these days.


Hm. I'd say two decades or so, perhaps plus a little. ( But I should
ask rather than assuming. grin! )

The best epoxies cure slowly and require heat for a complete cure and
maximum strength.


Ah, but what loosens them? ( The epoxies, I mean. )


Stress while hot can do it. As can inadequate joint design.

Slow-cure (overnight) epoxy is far stronger than the 5-minute stuff.
But in all cases, cleaning the surfaces to be glued is critical - even
a hint of grease will prevent full strength.

If one is changing from traditional handle cement to epoxy, removal of
all of the old cement is essential. This will require use of solvents.
Beware ordinary acetone - it usually has some oil in it; this oil must
be removed before epoxy will bond.
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On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 at 4:01:27 PM UTC-6, Frnak McKenney wrote:
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Frank McKenney
--
A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to
be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die
for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for
them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com


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On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:11:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Classic problem with 2-part knives. We have a bunch of them that are
doing the same. There is a cavity in the handle that builds up steam
pressure in the dry cycle of the dishwasher. Yes, I'm guessing if
you heat them and press the blade back in, it will do the job. These
things are so old, I doubt they used epoxy, more liekly some older
form of glue.

Jon


Epoxies came into widespread commercial use around 1950. If it's
really old, more likely it's phenolic.

None of those thermosets can reliably be released with heat. It
depends on the specific chemistry and the percentage of solids; If
they're 100% solids, it's unlikely you can release them with heat.

I have some of those knives, which have been in the family since 1963.
None of them have ever seen the inside of a dishwasher. They're really
not up to it. Neither is anything else that contains a lot of silver.


Ed, Jon,

Thanks for the comments. Will pass them along.


Frank
--
Scientists are people of very dissimilar temperaments doing different
things in very different ways. Among scientists are collectors,
classifiers and compulsive tidiers-up; many are detectives by
temperament and many are explorers; some are artists and others
artisans. There are poet-scientists and philosopher-scientists and
even a few mystics. ... and most people who are in fact scientists
could easily have been something else instead.

-- Peter Medawar, "Hypothesis and Imagination"
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank und.scr mckenney aatt mindspring d.ot com



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On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:11:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Classic problem with 2-part knives. We have a bunch of them that are
doing the same. There is a cavity in the handle that builds up steam
pressure in the dry cycle of the dishwasher. Yes, I'm guessing if
you heat them and press the blade back in, it will do the job. These
things are so old, I doubt they used epoxy, more liekly some older
form of glue.

Jon


Epoxies came into widespread commercial use around 1950. If it's
really old, more likely it's phenolic.

None of those thermosets can reliably be released with heat. It
depends on the specific chemistry and the percentage of solids; If
they're 100% solids, it's unlikely you can release them with heat.

I have some of those knives, which have been in the family since 1963.
None of them have ever seen the inside of a dishwasher. They're really
not up to it. Neither is anything else that contains a lot of silver.


Ed, Jon,

Thanks for the comments. Will pass them along.


Frank
--
Scientists are people of very dissimilar temperaments doing different
things in very different ways. Among scientists are collectors,
classifiers and compulsive tidiers-up; many are detectives by
temperament and many are explorers; some are artists and others
artisans. There are poet-scientists and philosopher-scientists and
even a few mystics. ... and most people who are in fact scientists
could easily have been something else instead.

-- Peter Medawar, "Hypothesis and Imagination"


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead.
Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical.
https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU

Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess,
then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off
the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least.

If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for
better retention.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle

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On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember
it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.

Pete Keillor

I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead.
Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical.
https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU

Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess,
then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off
the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least.

If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for
better retention.

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On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 8:47:39 AM UTC-5, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember
it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.

Pete Keillor

I think I'd try a highly flexible, waterproof adhesive instead.
Either Plumber's Goop or E6000, which are very nearly identical.
https://www.amazon.com/E6000-237032-.../dp/B004BPHQWU

Dry the handle, use a toothpick to work some adhesive into the recess,
then push the cleaned stainless part in. Dry overnight, then pare off
the squeezeout. That should fix them for your lifetime, at least.

If they don't have notches (handle and knife shank), make a few for
better retention.


Be careful with any solvent-borne, evaporating-type adhesive in such an enclosed application. They shrink a lot and not necessarily where you want them to.

That's a job for a thermoset, and it's hard to beat a high-quality, 100%-solids industrial epoxy.

--
Ed Huntress
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.



Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.


it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.


As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward
anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic.
Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit
so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the
sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once
and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held
it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint
with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then
applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them
up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare
patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted
several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus
E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by
being able to repair the breaks once and for all.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle



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On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.


it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.


As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward
anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic.
Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit
so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the
sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once
and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held
it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint
with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then
applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them
up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare
patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted
several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus
E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by
being able to repair the breaks once and for all.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle


Flexible things like shoe soles do just fine with the shrinkage of solvent-born adhesives. Solid, non-yielding things like knife blades and metal handles, which can't even move relative to each other as the adhesive dries, fare less well. The adhesive either pulls away from one or both surfaces you're trying to glue, or it fails in the bulk of the adhesive, tearing itself apart.

Use epoxy for this job.

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:47:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.

Damn, Larry, my memory is nowhere near that good. That's current.

snip
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.


it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.


As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward
anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic.
Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit
so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the
sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once
and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held
it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint
with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then
applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them
up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare
patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted
several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus
E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by
being able to repair the breaks once and for all.


Yes, liquid nails, bondo with fiberglass and the myriad of stuff like that are great just as long as you clean and rinse both surfaces.
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 06:02:30 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:47:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.

Damn, Larry, my memory is nowhere near that good. That's current.


g

And even the expensive goo doesn't work well when you don't follow the
instructions. (See Boston Big Dig Collapse for more info)

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck
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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:47:26 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
- hide quoted text -
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:47:46 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:55:40 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:27:12 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:18:36 -0600, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:55:59 PM UTC-5, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:


Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.


Check this site out if you need a high temperature cement.
http://www.sauereisen.com/ceramic-as...product-index/

That's probably a really pricy hi-tech goo.

Don't know about price, but it's been around a long time. I used it
at work in the '70's. Hmmm. 4 oz. for $13 for one type. I remember


That's not bad at all, but was that the price then or now? I figured
it was probably like some of the new epoxies at $200+ per oz.


it being very hard, but was tough, didn't crack even under heat
cycling in a furnace. I'd have to look at the literature to decide if
any of their products would work for the knives. Seems overqualified
for the heat part, don't know about the moisture and adhesion needs.


As an avid (compulsive?) tool user all my life, I tend to opt toward
anything which is more toward the side of user-friendly and ergonomic.
Flexible adhesive gel between the parts of table utensils seem to fit
so that's why I thought about the Goos. Love 'em, I do. I had the
sole of a high-top hiking boot come loose at the toe (5" worth!) once
and it flapped down and bent under on my trek. A piece of string held
it together until I got back to the truck. At home, I rinsed the joint
with water, patted them dry, and left them to dry thoroughly, then
applied some Shoe Goo to the halves, stuck them together, opened them
up to tack them for a minute, then stuck them together and put a spare
patio tile on it. It was good as new later that day and they lasted
several more years. I invested $20 in Plumber's & Shoe Goos plus
E6000 20 or so years ago and saved maybe $1k in replacement parts by
being able to repair the breaks once and for all.


Maybe I was wrong. A hot glue gun heats up stuff that you can put on your boots to keep them together. (higher melting point)


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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 at 2:01:27 PM UTC-8, Frnak McKenney wrote:
Are metal-related questions still allowed here? grin!

Christmas brunch was wonderful. My sister and I were invited to eat
with a cousin and her family, and the French Toast -- made with slices
of French bread and peach butter -- was delicious.

As we sat around the table afterwards, one topic that came up was the
odd look of their stainless tableware, or to be more specific, the
knives. These were made by a company named Gorham (Fairview pattern?)
and had given wonderful service for many years, but recently they had
noticed that some of the knives were "separating": the blade had begun
to separate from the handle, showing a minor gap of roughly 1/8".

Hoping for a simple fix, I spent a couple of hours exploring the 'Web
with different combinations of keywords looking for instructions like
"heat to 400degF for 10 minutes and the epoxy will soften, then gently
press the blade back into the handle and it will be as god as new for
another decade or two". Nope. Most of what I found related to
stainless blades set into sterling handles (not the case here), and
there were more descriptions of how to tear the handle off and sell
the sterling than ideas of how to repair a knife.

Has anyone here ever seen this problem? My cousing said it might be
related to washing the knives in a dishwasher, but only about a
quarter of the knives seem to be affected.

Does anyone know how I could learn about the properties of the "epoxy"
(an assumption, the term pops up a lot)?

It's not a life-or-death problem, but if anyone has any suggestions I
would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks. And a Happy New Year and a Euphorious Epiphany to all!


Frank McKenney
--
A man who has faith must be prepared not only to be a martyr, but to
be a fool. It is absurd to say that a man is ready to toil and die
for his convictions when he is not even ready to wear a wreath for
them. -- G.K. Chesterton: Christmas and the Aesthetes (1905)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com


I have exactly the same problem. Did you ever find an answer?
Rex Olsen

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Default Stainless steel, epoxy, and tableware

I know your post about Gorham knives was a while ago, but did you ever find a solution to your knives separating? I also have a few that have separated and would like to figure out how to fix them.
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On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 11:52:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I know your post about Gorham knives was a while ago, but did you ever find a solution to your knives separating? I also have a few that have separated and would like to figure out how to fix them.


A good grade of epoxy adhesive should do it. Don't use the quick-acting stuff; it's not very waterproof and some of it won't handle the 140 deg. F or so it will face in a dishwasher.

Good epoxy will tolerate over 220 deg. F.

--
Ed Huntress
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