Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Improvised milling machine

Back working on my bat house mold. Envision a large rectangular sink made of
5/16 thick cast aluminum... I'm 'milling' a shallow slot in the middle with out
a milling machine. A router with a carbide bit actually works (slowly!) as long
as I take light cuts and keep it lubed up with stick wax. Running into a
problem getting the slots all the way into the corners.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...mold-slots.jpg

Have already booked some run time at my local rotational molder next month and
would like to connect the slots before then. Only real machine shop I can
possibly afford (semi retired relative) is not open on my normal days off and
my day job is oddly wide a** open. Running out of time and ideas so I'm asking
here.
--
William

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William Bagwell wrote:

Back working on my bat house mold. Envision a large rectangular sink made of
5/16 thick cast aluminum... I'm 'milling' a shallow slot in the middle with out
a milling machine. A router with a carbide bit actually works (slowly!) as long
as I take light cuts and keep it lubed up with stick wax. Running into a
problem getting the slots all the way into the corners.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...mold-slots.jpg

Have already booked some run time at my local rotational molder next month and
would like to connect the slots before then. Only real machine shop I can
possibly afford (semi retired relative) is not open on my normal days off and
my day job is oddly wide a** open. Running out of time and ideas so I'm asking
here.
--
William


I suspect that in the olden days such a slot would be cut with a chisel
(not a wood chisel), also suspect that would still work today...
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On 26/11/2012 9:05 AM, William Bagwell wrote:
Back working on my bat house mold. Envision a large rectangular sink made of
5/16 thick cast aluminum... I'm 'milling' a shallow slot in the middle with out
a milling machine. A router with a carbide bit actually works (slowly!) as long
as I take light cuts and keep it lubed up with stick wax. Running into a
problem getting the slots all the way into the corners.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...mold-slots.jpg

Have already booked some run time at my local rotational molder next month and
would like to connect the slots before then. Only real machine shop I can
possibly afford (semi retired relative) is not open on my normal days off and
my day job is oddly wide a** open. Running out of time and ideas so I'm asking
here.



Die grinder + burrs?

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"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...
Back working on my bat house mold. Envision a large rectangular sink made
of
5/16 thick cast aluminum... I'm 'milling' a shallow slot in the middle
with out
a milling machine. A router with a carbide bit actually works (slowly!) as
long
as I take light cuts and keep it lubed up with stick wax. Running into a
problem getting the slots all the way into the corners.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...mold-slots.jpg

Have already booked some run time at my local rotational molder next month
and
would like to connect the slots before then. Only real machine shop I can
possibly afford (semi retired relative) is not open on my normal days off
and
my day job is oddly wide a** open. Running out of time and ideas so I'm
asking
here.
--
William


Even if you had a mill, you probably could not make that cut all the way
into the corner.

Some one else suggested using a cold chisel which might be the best option
in your situation, although it might not look so pretty.

Other options could be:
1. Cut the sides off, then mill the slots, then screw, weld or braze back
together.
2. If you did not mind making the part smaller and had not already milled
most of the slot, you could have welded or screwed in sheets of aluminum to
raise the flat surface rather than mill the slot.
3. Make a jig to guide a hand-held dremel or die grinder. You could either
use an end-cutting bit or an abrasive cutting wheel. It depends which corner
you want the radius to be on.
4. Cut out the center section containing the slot. Weld in place a thinner
piece to form the slot.

BTW, I assume you know that the vertical edges of the slot should be angled
slightly to let the part pop out of the mold more easily.



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Default Improvised milling machine

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:35:01 -0600, "Pete C." wrote:

I suspect that in the olden days such a slot would be cut with a chisel
(not a wood chisel), also suspect that would still work today...


You suspect correctly. The end slots which were already existing in the
original cast molds (my mold is a weldment of cast pieces) were modified using
the same 'router as mill' technique and the *much* smaller remaining triangles
were removed with a long, very sharp, cold chisel.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...versedraft.jpg
Or the whole page if anyone wants to see it,
http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/firstmold.html

Searching for a faster way...
--
William


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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:44:30 +0800, Spuckle wrote:

Die grinder + burrs?


Inadequate air compressor. Would probably be faster than a chisel if I sprung
for a few new burrs.
--
William
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Default Improvised milling machine

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:37:22 -0800, "anorton"
wrote:


Even if you had a mill, you probably could not make that cut all the way
into the corner.


True. Could probably get closer than my router by angling the head.

Some one else suggested using a cold chisel which might be the best option
in your situation, although it might not look so pretty.

Other options could be:
1. Cut the sides off, then mill the slots, then screw, weld or braze back
together.


Too late for that. Originally was two parts and joined (with a backer bar)
where I'm now putting the slot.

Out of time, will reply to the rest this evening.
--
William
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Default Improvised milling machine

On 26/11/2012 6:17 PM, William Bagwell wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:44:30 +0800, Spuckle wrote:

Die grinder + burrs?


Inadequate air compressor. Would probably be faster than a chisel if I sprung
for a few new burrs.



Do funds allow for a cheapy electric die grinder?
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Default Improvised milling machine


"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:35:01 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I suspect that in the olden days such a slot would be cut with a
chisel
(not a wood chisel), also suspect that would still work today...


You suspect correctly. The end slots which were already existing in
the
original cast molds (my mold is a weldment of cast pieces) were
modified using
the same 'router as mill' technique and the *much* smaller remaining
triangles
were removed with a long, very sharp, cold chisel.

http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/smal...versedraft.jpg
Or the whole page if anyone wants to see it,
http://www.mysecondbathouse.com/firstmold.html

Searching for a faster way...
--
William


http://video.pbs.org/video/2284159044/
Watch how quickly he chisels the lettering into the high-carbon sword
steel. If you can't/won't buy modern machinery you could fall back to
the pre-industrial hand tool skills like learning to shape, harden and
temper chisels suited to the work.
jsw


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Default Improvised milling machine

On Monday, November 26, 2012 2:11:21 AM UTC-8, William Bagwell wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:35:01 -0600, "Pete C." wrote:



I suspect that in the olden days such a slot would be cut with a chisel


(not a wood chisel), also suspect that would still work today...


Searching for a faster way...


Like, maybe, an air hammer with a cold chisel tip?


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Default Improvised milling machine

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:29:44 -0500
William Bagwell wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:37:22 -0800, "anorton"
wrote:


Even if you had a mill, you probably could not make that cut all the way
into the corner.


True. Could probably get closer than my router by angling the head.

Some one else suggested using a cold chisel which might be the best option
in your situation, although it might not look so pretty.

Other options could be:
1. Cut the sides off, then mill the slots, then screw, weld or braze back
together.


Too late for that. Originally was two parts and joined (with a backer bar)
where I'm now putting the slot.

Out of time, will reply to the rest this evening.


Do you have one of the many oscillating/multi-tools? Like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/variabl...ool-67537.html

These cutters would probably cut aluminum okay (get extras):

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-bi...ade-68912.html

Should look a bit better than chisel work, maybe...

--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:37:22 -0800, "anorton"
wrote:

2. If you did not mind making the part smaller and had not already milled
most of the slot, you could have welded or screwed in sheets of aluminum to
raise the flat surface rather than mill the slot.


Have seen this done. Has issues and the better it is welded, the harder it is
to repair when it eventually fails.

3. Make a jig to guide a hand-held dremel or die grinder. You could either
use an end-cutting bit or an abrasive cutting wheel. It depends which corner
you want the radius to be on.


Only new idea I could think of before asking here was to make a wedged shaped
end shoe for the smaller of the two routers I have been using and use a pointed
end bit. Think they are made for plunge cuts so I'm not sure how well they
would work cutting flat.

4. Cut out the center section containing the slot. Weld in place a thinner
piece to form the slot.


Wish I had done this to begin with. Originally *was* two pieces! Had access to
TIG then... My MIG warped it way more than I expected building up a pad on the
outside so the wall thickness will remain the same.

BTW, I assume you know that the vertical edges of the slot should be angled
slightly to let the part pop out of the mold more easily.


Oh yes! Though rotational molding is probably the most forgiving of any
process. I have seen simple cubes and cylinders made in zero draft molds.
Absolutely not recommended for any complex shaped part.
--
William
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:08:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:


http://video.pbs.org/video/2284159044/
Watch how quickly he chisels the lettering into the high-carbon sword
steel. If you can't/won't buy modern machinery you could fall back to
the pre-industrial hand tool skills like learning to shape, harden and
temper chisels suited to the work.
jsw


Started watching while I was eating dinner... Did not realize it was so long so
might not finish until the weekend. What I did see was quite interesting!
--
William
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:45:53 -0800 (PST), whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, November 26, 2012 2:11:21 AM UTC-8, William Bagwell wrote:


Searching for a faster way...


Like, maybe, an air hammer with a cold chisel tip?


Might be able to borrow one. Still have the too small compressor problem...
--
William
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:24:17 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

Do you have one of the many oscillating/multi-tools? Like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/variabl...ool-67537.html

These cutters would probably cut aluminum okay (get extras):

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-bi...ade-68912.html

Should look a bit better than chisel work, maybe...


Hmm, have seen those plugged in and ready to play with at Home Depot. Can not
imagine them taking a heavy cut in aluminum, but it might be just the ticket to
clean up the mess left by what ever method I end up using.
--
William


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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:43:59 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:24:17 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

Do you have one of the many oscillating/multi-tools? Like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/variabl...ool-67537.html

These cutters would probably cut aluminum okay (get extras):

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-bi...ade-68912.html

Should look a bit better than chisel work, maybe...


Hmm, have seen those plugged in and ready to play with at Home Depot. Can not
imagine them taking a heavy cut in aluminum, but it might be just the ticket to
clean up the mess left by what ever method I end up using.


You'd be surprised. BTW, the single-speed version is on sale for $15
right now, with coupon. You can't afford NOT to have one. I'm sure
the blades will cut aluminum (I've cut iron/steel screws with them
with no apparent dulling), but if you're not sure, get the bimetal,
diamond, or carbide half-moon blade. Keep the swarf from building up
in the cut and it cuts extremely fast.

Question: Doesn't the metal bat house get too warm for the critters?
And what do you use for condo separations inside?

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Question: Doesn't the metal bat house get too warm for the critters?
And what do you use for condo separations inside?




What? Does he have aluminum bats, or something more exotic? ;-)
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:43:59 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:24:17 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

Do you have one of the many oscillating/multi-tools? Like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/variabl...ool-67537.html

These cutters would probably cut aluminum okay (get extras):

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-bi...ade-68912.html

Should look a bit better than chisel work, maybe...

Hmm, have seen those plugged in and ready to play with at Home Depot. Can not
imagine them taking a heavy cut in aluminum, but it might be just the ticket to
clean up the mess left by what ever method I end up using.


You'd be surprised. BTW, the single-speed version is on sale for $15
right now, with coupon. You can't afford NOT to have one. I'm sure
the blades will cut aluminum (I've cut iron/steel screws with them
with no apparent dulling), but if you're not sure, get the bimetal,
diamond, or carbide half-moon blade. Keep the swarf from building up
in the cut and it cuts extremely fast.

Question: Doesn't the metal bat house get too warm for the critters?
And what do you use for condo separations inside?


I have 2 of the single speed units. They actually work very well. With
aluminum the problem becomes heat related. The
aluminum actually heats up enough that it gets gummy and bonds to the
teeth. I just applied some common ivory soap to the
teeth and it made a big difference.
Darn thing does come in handy at times.


--
Steve W.
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On 2012-11-27, William Bagwell wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:45:53 -0800 (PST), whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, November 26, 2012 2:11:21 AM UTC-8, William Bagwell wrote:


Searching for a faster way...


Like, maybe, an air hammer with a cold chisel tip?


Might be able to borrow one. Still have the too small compressor problem...


Perhaps a metal shaper with a properly shaped bit in it?

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:57:19 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

You'd be surprised. BTW, the single-speed version is on sale for $15
right now, with coupon. You can't afford NOT to have one. I'm sure
the blades will cut aluminum (I've cut iron/steel screws with them
with no apparent dulling), but if you're not sure, get the bimetal,
diamond, or carbide half-moon blade. Keep the swarf from building up
in the cut and it cuts extremely fast.


Bought a variable speed this morning... Tested it on a 3/4 X 1/2" square 'boss'
left from cutting with different sized routers. (Large one cuts smoother, small
one gets closer to the corner.) Pleasantly surprised at how well the new multi
tool worked! However, that was tiny compared to the four ~2 X 3" areas that
will need to be cut before the slots intersect.

Running out of time so will remove these in stages so to keep unfinished slots
symmetrical.

Question: Doesn't the metal bat house get too warm for the critters?
And what do you use for condo separations inside?


You do realize this is a mold to make plastic bat houses? Each chamber will be
separated by wooden baffles. Though I am experimenting with an all plastic bat
house.

http://mysecondbathouse.com/

Probably need to put a few pictures in the drop box for folks who don't click
on web links.
--
William


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On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:16:11 -0500, "Steve W." wrote:

I have 2 of the single speed units. They actually work very well. With
aluminum the problem becomes heat related. The
aluminum actually heats up enough that it gets gummy and bonds to the
teeth. I just applied some common ivory soap to the
teeth and it made a big difference.
Darn thing does come in handy at times.


I was using soft stick wax for my test cuts today. Want to try some thing more
liquid to keep the chips flushed out. Straight blade since the half round one
that came with my tool is too wide to fit in the slots I'm trying to lengthen.
--
William
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On 28 Nov 2012 04:06:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Perhaps a metal shaper with a properly shaped bit in it?

Good Luck,
DoN.


Have not even *seen* a metal shaper since Vo Tech in 77. Just Googled and was
surprised that they are actually sought after today. Well, smaller ones at
least... Will keep my eyes out for a deal.
--
William
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:29:31 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:57:19 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

You'd be surprised. BTW, the single-speed version is on sale for $15
right now, with coupon. You can't afford NOT to have one. I'm sure
the blades will cut aluminum (I've cut iron/steel screws with them
with no apparent dulling), but if you're not sure, get the bimetal,
diamond, or carbide half-moon blade. Keep the swarf from building up
in the cut and it cuts extremely fast.


Bought a variable speed this morning... Tested it on a 3/4 X 1/2" square 'boss'
left from cutting with different sized routers. (Large one cuts smoother, small
one gets closer to the corner.) Pleasantly surprised at how well the new multi
tool worked! However, that was tiny compared to the four ~2 X 3" areas that
will need to be cut before the slots intersect.


I'm sure those will cut quickly, too. Did you get the $30 price, or
was the sale off by then? Those many 20% off coupons floating around
come in handy, too. I picked up their 45W solar panel kit for $126 on
sale and with a coupon. Some $4.50 9W LED lamps from China, some $4
fixtures from VA, and a Walmart battery will keep my home lit for days
during an outage. I think the ($15) 96144 heater from HF will help
keep the room warm, too.


Running out of time so will remove these in stages so to keep unfinished slots
symmetrical.

Question: Doesn't the metal bat house get too warm for the critters?
And what do you use for condo separations inside?


You do realize this is a mold to make plastic bat houses?


No, I hadn't seen the word "mold" in the message I responded to. That
do makes a difference, it do. g


Each chamber will be
separated by wooden baffles. Though I am experimenting with an all plastic bat
house.


Cool. Is it a non-outgasing plastic, I hope?



http://mysecondbathouse.com/

Probably need to put a few pictures in the drop box for folks who don't click
on web links.


Prolly a good idea. Hey, in that last pic with the 19 bat houses,
aren't those installed a bit too low?

Neat project. I helped my neighbor build quite a few from leftover
plywood a few years ago. I haven't seen any bats over there, though.
I'll ask him how many were occupied. I know he gave the majority of
them away to his church friends.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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On 2012-11-30, William Bagwell wrote:
On 28 Nov 2012 04:06:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Perhaps a metal shaper with a properly shaped bit in it?

Good Luck,
DoN.


Have not even *seen* a metal shaper since Vo Tech in 77. Just Googled and was
surprised that they are actually sought after today. Well, smaller ones at
least... Will keep my eyes out for a deal.


Finding a deal is easier with the big ones. Sometimes a shop
will give it to you if you get it out of there. For the nice small
ones, like 7" stroke (e.g. my Rockwell/Delta/AMMCO one), expect to pay
in the vicinity of $1000.00. (At least back when I got mine.) The small
ones are the ones which are sought after in general. Most home shops
don't have room for the larger ones. but a small one can do some
intersting things which are difficult to do on a milling machine or
lathe.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:53:39 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2012 04:06:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Perhaps a metal shaper with a properly shaped bit in it?

Good Luck,
DoN.


Have not even *seen* a metal shaper since Vo Tech in 77. Just Googled and was
surprised that they are actually sought after today. Well, smaller ones at
least... Will keep my eyes out for a deal.


I LOVE My Logan shaper!!


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


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On 1 Dec 2012 04:40:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-11-30, William Bagwell wrote:
On 28 Nov 2012 04:06:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Perhaps a metal shaper with a properly shaped bit in it?

Good Luck,
DoN.


Have not even *seen* a metal shaper since Vo Tech in 77. Just Googled and was
surprised that they are actually sought after today. Well, smaller ones at
least... Will keep my eyes out for a deal.


Finding a deal is easier with the big ones. Sometimes a shop
will give it to you if you get it out of there. For the nice small
ones, like 7" stroke (e.g. my Rockwell/Delta/AMMCO one), expect to pay
in the vicinity of $1000.00. (At least back when I got mine.) The small
ones are the ones which are sought after in general. Most home shops
don't have room for the larger ones. but a small one can do some
intersting things which are difficult to do on a milling machine or
lathe.

Enjoy,
DoN.


Ive passed on at least (3), 36" shapers, including a Cincinnati that
was absolutely mint. All of them were "free".

I managed to find homes for 2 of them, and the third is still parked
in the back of the companies parking lot..slowly headed for the center
of the earth.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:40:53 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:16:11 -0500, "Steve W." wrote:

I have 2 of the single speed units. They actually work very well. With
aluminum the problem becomes heat related. The
aluminum actually heats up enough that it gets gummy and bonds to the
teeth. I just applied some common ivory soap to the
teeth and it made a big difference.
Darn thing does come in handy at times.


I was using soft stick wax for my test cuts today. Want to try some thing more
liquid to keep the chips flushed out. Straight blade since the half round one
that came with my tool is too wide to fit in the slots I'm trying to lengthen.


Try Dawn dishsoap


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
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Default Improvised milling machine

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:09:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:29:31 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:


Bought a variable speed this morning... Tested it on a 3/4 X 1/2" square 'boss'
left from cutting with different sized routers. (Large one cuts smoother, small
one gets closer to the corner.) Pleasantly surprised at how well the new multi
tool worked! However, that was tiny compared to the four ~2 X 3" areas that
will need to be cut before the slots intersect.


I'm sure those will cut quickly, too. Did you get the $30 price, or
was the sale off by then? Those many 20% off coupons floating around
come in handy, too. I picked up their 45W solar panel kit for $126 on
sale and with a coupon. Some $4.50 9W LED lamps from China, some $4
fixtures from VA, and a Walmart battery will keep my home lit for days
during an outage. I think the ($15) 96144 heater from HF will help
keep the room warm, too.


$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude.


Each chamber will be
separated by wooden baffles. Though I am experimenting with an all plastic bat
house.


Cool. Is it a non-outgasing plastic, I hope?


Outer shell is the same poly ethylene as all the rest with traditional wooden
baffles. One of which was very successful this past year. About a dozen bats
moved in their house (from mine) with in a month of their return and then
attracted friends. Peaked at 49 bats!

The all plastic house right beside it was mostly ignored all summer but five
bats moved into it when cooler weather started. Not true hibernation but they
are in torpor most of the time. Another long time bat house enthusiast about 50
miles away from me says he always has a few do this each year and that they
will leave for hibernation as well once we get close to a hard freeze.

Those baffles are 1/4" thick foam cored PVC mechanically grooved with my
modified jointer. PVC may be an outgasing plastic? Guess I need to look that
up... Only one bat house built that way as I'm not going to sell a style that
is not at least similar to one that is known to work.

http://mysecondbathouse.com/

Probably need to put a few pictures in the drop box for folks who don't click
on web links.


Prolly a good idea. Hey, in that last pic with the 19 bat houses,
aren't those installed a bit too low?


And four of them are upside down. Actually molded that way because I forgot to
put register pins in the lid:-( Symmetrical as are the six clamps... Lid forms
a built in French cleat in the back of the bat house so those four will forever
have a flat sloped roof with no decorative dormer. Mold now has pins.

Neat project. I helped my neighbor build quite a few from leftover
plywood a few years ago. I haven't seen any bats over there, though.
I'll ask him how many were occupied. I know he gave the majority of
them away to his church friends.


Cool! Once you get one successful bat house in an area it will attract more
bats and make it easer to start new colonies.
--
William
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On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 01:00:15 -0800, Gunner wrote:

Try Dawn dishsoap


Will do!
--
William
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"William Bagwell" wrote in message
$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to
look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar
since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I
could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude....


They'd put out "45W" into a 17V battery or intelligent switchmode
charger. The current is about the same for a 12V battery but of course
the wattage is lower. The charger in the kit simply connects the panel
to the battery as long as the battery voltage is below 14.4V.

My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.

Last fall we lost power for a week and it was enough to run this
laptop an hour or two a day. I use only about 200W on average anyway
(4-5 KWH/day) and can do without, or run a small generator an hour or
two a day to recharge batteries, but if you need a generator
constantly I don't think they are worth buying. A decent battery and
inverter double the system cost. My panels can't produce $0.02 worth
of grid electricity per day.
jsw




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On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 08:48:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"William Bagwell" wrote in message
$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to
look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar
since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I
could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude....


They'd put out "45W" into a 17V battery or intelligent switchmode
charger. The current is about the same for a 12V battery but of course
the wattage is lower. The charger in the kit simply connects the panel
to the battery as long as the battery voltage is below 14.4V.

My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.


How old are those, Jim?


Last fall we lost power for a week and it was enough to run this
laptop an hour or two a day. I use only about 200W on average anyway
(4-5 KWH/day) and can do without, or run a small generator an hour or
two a day to recharge batteries, but if you need a generator
constantly I don't think they are worth buying. A decent battery and
inverter double the system cost. My panels can't produce $0.02 worth
of grid electricity per day.


No, they're not for powering the grid. g A several KW/H system is
better for doing that.

I got mine for emergency lighting and maybe heat. The HF heater only
puts out 180W, so it's doubtful it would be much help.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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William Bagwell wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:09:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:29:31 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote:


Bought a variable speed this morning... Tested it on a 3/4 X 1/2" square 'boss'
left from cutting with different sized routers. (Large one cuts smoother, small
one gets closer to the corner.) Pleasantly surprised at how well the new multi
tool worked! However, that was tiny compared to the four ~2 X 3" areas that
will need to be cut before the slots intersect.


I'm sure those will cut quickly, too. Did you get the $30 price, or
was the sale off by then? Those many 20% off coupons floating around
come in handy, too. I picked up their 45W solar panel kit for $126 on
sale and with a coupon. Some $4.50 9W LED lamps from China, some $4
fixtures from VA, and a Walmart battery will keep my home lit for days
during an outage. I think the ($15) 96144 heater from HF will help
keep the room warm, too.


$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude.

Each chamber will be
separated by wooden baffles. Though I am experimenting with an all plastic bat
house.


Cool. Is it a non-outgasing plastic, I hope?


Outer shell is the same poly ethylene as all the rest with traditional wooden
baffles. One of which was very successful this past year. About a dozen bats
moved in their house (from mine) with in a month of their return and then
attracted friends. Peaked at 49 bats!

The all plastic house right beside it was mostly ignored all summer but five
bats moved into it when cooler weather started. Not true hibernation but they
are in torpor most of the time. Another long time bat house enthusiast about 50
miles away from me says he always has a few do this each year and that they
will leave for hibernation as well once we get close to a hard freeze.

Those baffles are 1/4" thick foam cored PVC mechanically grooved with my
modified jointer. PVC may be an outgasing plastic? Guess I need to look that
up... Only one bat house built that way as I'm not going to sell a style that
is not at least similar to one that is known to work.


Need to find a plastic that outgasses something to kill the "white nose"
fungus or there won't be any bats left to call the house home
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:40:53 -0500
William Bagwell wrote:

snip
I was using soft stick wax for my test cuts today. Want to try some thing more
liquid to keep the chips flushed out. Straight blade since the half round one
that came with my tool is too wide to fit in the slots I'm trying to lengthen.


If I recall correctly, I thought your mold could hold water. If so I
would probably try putting in enough water to just cover the area you
want to cut and then run the cutter/blade underwater. With the way
those tools work I don't think you would get much splashing around and
the water should help keep the blade/cut area cool.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 08:48:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"William Bagwell" wrote in message
$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to
look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar
since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I
could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude....


They'd put out "45W" into a 17V battery or intelligent switchmode
charger. The current is about the same for a 12V battery but of
course
the wattage is lower. The charger in the kit simply connects the
panel
to the battery as long as the battery voltage is below 14.4V.

My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.


How old are those, Jim?


February 2011.

My panels can't produce $0.02 worth
of grid electricity per day.


No, they're not for powering the grid. g A several KW/H system
is
better for doing that.


Grid-rate electricity, $0.15 per KWH. They do better vs generator-rate
electricity which I roughly estimate as $0.50 to $1.00 per KWH, highly
dependent on % of full load and the remaining life of the genny.
jsw


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Default Alt Energy Prep (was Improvised milling machine)

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 12:52:19 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 08:48:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"William Bagwell" wrote in message
$39.99 supposedly marked down from $79.99. No coupons... Need to
look at one of
those panels next time I'm in there. Have been dreaming of solar
since we built
our house twenty years ago. Roof faces as close to true south as I
could get it
and the pitch angle matches our latitude....

They'd put out "45W" into a 17V battery or intelligent switchmode
charger. The current is about the same for a 12V battery but of
course
the wattage is lower. The charger in the kit simply connects the
panel
to the battery as long as the battery voltage is below 14.4V.

My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.


How old are those, Jim?


February 2011.


That's not a long time to drop 28%. Are they kept clean and
unscratched, and test days identical? What do you think accounts for
the loss? Mine are glass-covered but would expect resins (found on
the smaller mobile solar chargers) to do a bit of yellowing. Do yours
still look new?


My panels can't produce $0.02 worth
of grid electricity per day.


No, they're not for powering the grid. g A several KW/H system
is
better for doing that.


Grid-rate electricity, $0.15 per KWH. They do better vs generator-rate
electricity which I roughly estimate as $0.50 to $1.00 per KWH, highly
dependent on % of full load and the remaining life of the genny.


Yeah, emergency power isn't as cheap as grid, that's for sure. I had
my electricity back on within about 5 hours last time, but my
neighbors right across the street were down for over 4 days. They
lost $400 worth of food in their freezer and about $100 in the fridge.
I took thermoses of hot water to them several times a day for the
duration. One more reason NOT to have an additional freezer. I need
to do a 24-hr test of my fridge. The quick test gave me 135W while
running. I have it set for 40F which keeps the freezer at 0F. IN an
emergency, I'd probably have to dial it back unless I had a genset
running. It might take all the juice the panels produced, leaving
none for lights.

I saw a YouTube of the HF $119 genny. He said "they're not that
loud", but later in the flick, you could distinctly hear the roar of
the damned thing in the background with the doors and windows shut.
I wouldn't own one, except for very-short-term use in emergencies.
My questions a Are cheap gensets reliable enough to depend on when
stored for years at a time? and Can I find replacement parts to
rebuild them when they do go bad?

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message


My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.

How old are those, Jim?


February 2011.


That's not a long time to drop 28%. Are they kept clean and
unscratched, and test days identical? What do you think accounts
for
the loss? Mine are glass-covered but would expect resins (found on
the smaller mobile solar chargers) to do a bit of yellowing. Do
yours
still look new?


I haven't tested them as thoroughly as I do other things because I
haven't found a really good location for them that combines safe
year-round access (not on the roof) with plenty of exposure to the sun
but not to passing thieves. My deceased solar water heater was in the
best south-facing spot and still was shaded before 10AM and after 2PM.
Really I have too many big trees, which do cut my air conditioning
cost, $10 for all last summer.

Speaking of testing, HWiNFO32 version 4.06 can display and log the
voltage, charge/discharge power, and estimated remaining capacity of a
laptop battery.
http://www.hwinfo.com/download32.html

I just received a hi capacity one from Amazon and am cycling it to
update its internal capacity estimation. The last one they sent me ran
an hour, this one has already gone three and may have another 1/2
left. The log preserves the shutdown time (or the record just before
it) and any steps in the capacity estimate, which creep in if it
hasn't been recently updated by a full discharge+recharge cycle. The
Windows Event Log catches when the computer sleeps unless the battery
drops out too suddenly, but this also records data I can graph and
examined.

jsw


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On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 20:23:24 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message


My HF panel kit was good for 2.8A when new, now it rarely reaches
2.0A.

How old are those, Jim?

February 2011.


That's not a long time to drop 28%. Are they kept clean and
unscratched, and test days identical? What do you think accounts
for
the loss? Mine are glass-covered but would expect resins (found on
the smaller mobile solar chargers) to do a bit of yellowing. Do
yours
still look new?


I haven't tested them as thoroughly as I do other things because I
haven't found a really good location for them that combines safe
year-round access (not on the roof) with plenty of exposure to the sun
but not to passing thieves. My deceased solar water heater was in the
best south-facing spot and still was shaded before 10AM and after 2PM.
Really I have too many big trees, which do cut my air conditioning
cost, $10 for all last summer.


Q: What do you call a house with trees surrounding it:
A: A TARGET.


Speaking of testing, HWiNFO32 version 4.06 can display and log the
voltage, charge/discharge power, and estimated remaining capacity of a
laptop battery.
http://www.hwinfo.com/download32.html

I just received a hi capacity one from Amazon and am cycling it to
update its internal capacity estimation. The last one they sent me ran
an hour, this one has already gone three and may have another 1/2
left. The log preserves the shutdown time (or the record just before
it) and any steps in the capacity estimate, which creep in if it
hasn't been recently updated by a full discharge+recharge cycle. The
Windows Event Log catches when the computer sleeps unless the battery
drops out too suddenly, but this also records data I can graph and
examined.


Cool! I need to get my old laptop running again.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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