Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,966
Default Mosler safe combination

In article ,
Ignoramus12225 wrote:

On 2011-01-21, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 1:17 pm, Ignoramus3982
wrote:
On 2011-01-20, Pete C. wrote:



Ignoramus3982 wrote:

Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.

Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my truck?
Just to have it checked etc?

i

Is it a "real" commercial safe, or a "toy" home safe? If the former, I'm
sure a locksmith could rework the combination for you, if the later,
they'll laugh at you for asking.

It is called a class C safe, reportedly weighs 400 lbs, 30x21x54"
tall.

I would think that it is somewhere in between.

i


Just be careful handling it, some of the fancier types have a plate of
glass as part of the locking mechanism, if it gets shocked and broken,
the locking bolts get driven outwards and you're cooked. Keeps the
hammer and chisel types at bay.

A class C that only weight 400 lbs. Not likely.



Yeah, I wonder about that too. Should ask the seller. If the safe is
4000 lbs I would be ****ED


The walls are not all that thick, based on the photos. To me, it looks
like a secure filecabinet, not a real safe. The current ones weigh
about 400 pounds.

Joe Gwinn
  #42   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,013
Default Mosler safe combination

Might have Stone slabs in the door - often used in the mix of metal.
Many you can dismantle and take out the stone and get it lighter
on each load.

I'd call the lock smith and ask him work in the outdoors or in the
house ? - keep the bill of sales or whatnot - would be handy.

They might even give guidance on moving...

Martin

On 1/22/2011 8:50 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
id wrote in
message ...
The safe is from Fermilab. According to them, it is 33" X 21" X 54".


I:

I dealt with the surplus assets guy at Fermilab before and he was real
helpful.
Can't you direct the weight question back at him? They may have a
scale on
site or be able to provide other information, manual, etcetera.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

I am looking at this:

http://www.brownsafe.com/features_Fi...ingleDoor.html

The closest that I can see is C Rated Burglary Safe with Fire
Protection, 56 x 30.5 x 33 outside (a little wider, but shorter,
than
this safe), which weighs at 2,380 lbs.

Hm

I cannot get THAT into my basement for sure.

i

On 2011-01-21,
wrote:
On 2011-01-21, Bob La wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 1:17 pm, Ignoramus3982

wrote:
On 2011-01-20, Pete wrote:



Ignoramus3982 wrote:

Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a
safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.

Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my
truck?
Just to have it checked etc?

i

Is it a "real" commercial safe, or a "toy" home safe? If the
former, I'm
sure a locksmith could rework the combination for you, if the
later,
they'll laugh at you for asking.

It is called a class C safe, reportedly weighs 400 lbs, 30x21x54"
tall.

I would think that it is somewhere in between.

i

Just be careful handling it, some of the fancier types have a
plate of
glass as part of the locking mechanism, if it gets shocked and
broken,
the locking bolts get driven outwards and you're cooked. Keeps
the
hammer and chisel types at bay.

A class C that only weight 400 lbs. Not likely.



Yeah, I wonder about that too. Should ask the seller. If the safe
is
4000 lbs I would be ****ED



  #43   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,530
Default Mosler safe combination

Yes, Roger is. And I am, also. It's a very, very
wise investment to have a safe technician check
it all out. Some locksmiths are safe specialists,
others are not. I have worked on safes; I'm far
from expert. Most Moslers I've seen are
changable by a locksmith.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

I think Roger Shoaf is a locksmith. You might
try sending him an email.

Most locksmiths are highly protective of any
sort of information they have concerning opening
locks. They will generally treat you as a thief
unless they know you.


  #44   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,507
Default Mosler safe combination

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Ignoramus12225 wrote:
On 2011-01-21, Bob La Londe wrote:

A class C that only weight 400 lbs. Not likely.


Yeah, I wonder about that too. Should ask the seller. If the safe is
4000 lbs I would be ****ED


The walls are not all that thick, based on the photos. To me, it looks
like a secure filecabinet, not a real safe. The current ones weigh
about 400 pounds.

I concur, and this impression is reinforced by the drawer slides. They
kinda look like they're missing their drawers, or - maybe they're
Pendaflex things! No, wait - I think Igor said that it was 21" wide,
but that's the OD, and I think you can get 14" and/or 17" Pendaflexes;
but it still looks like there's something missing - I'd want some kind
of crossbar across the front before I started hanging Pendaflexes on
them.

Rats! I just now tried to backtrack to look up the pix to corroborate
my yammering, but I can't find them. I remember seeing home-made pix,
4 of them I think, with all 4 (or maybe 5 or six, I might have merely
been inattentive) views of a unit that looked really old, and a little
corroded around the edges. it had two knobs; a big one on the left with
a keyslot in the middle and that paddle thing to turn it with, and no
markings. I seem to recall it looking almost as if the two knobs overlapped
by about 1/4" or so. The right-hand knob, of course, was the combination
numbers.

Another image on that page is where I saw what looked like drawer
slides.

Thanks!
Rich

  #45   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Mosler safe combination

On 2011-01-23, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Ignoramus12225" wrote in
message ...
The safe is from Fermilab. According to them, it is 33" X 21" X 54".


I:

I dealt with the surplus assets guy at Fermilab before and he was
real helpful. Can't you direct the weight question back at him?
They may have a scale on site or be able to provide other
information, manual, etcetera.


He weighed it for me and it weighed at 600 lbs

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

I am looking at this:

http://www.brownsafe.com/features_Fi...ingleDoor.html

The closest that I can see is C Rated Burglary Safe with Fire
Protection, 56 x 30.5 x 33 outside (a little wider, but shorter,
than
this safe), which weighs at 2,380 lbs.

Hm

I cannot get THAT into my basement for sure.

i

On 2011-01-21, Ignoramus12225
wrote:
On 2011-01-21, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 1:17 pm, Ignoramus3982

wrote:
On 2011-01-20, Pete C. wrote:



Ignoramus3982 wrote:

Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a
safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.

Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my
truck?
Just to have it checked etc?

i

Is it a "real" commercial safe, or a "toy" home safe? If the
former, I'm
sure a locksmith could rework the combination for you, if the
later,
they'll laugh at you for asking.

It is called a class C safe, reportedly weighs 400 lbs, 30x21x54"
tall.

I would think that it is somewhere in between.

i

Just be careful handling it, some of the fancier types have a
plate of
glass as part of the locking mechanism, if it gets shocked and
broken,
the locking bolts get driven outwards and you're cooked. Keeps
the
hammer and chisel types at bay.

A class C that only weight 400 lbs. Not likely.



Yeah, I wonder about that too. Should ask the seller. If the safe
is
4000 lbs I would be ****ED





  #46   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 669
Default Mosler safe combination

"DoN. Nichols" writes:

Mosler locks were not GSA approved, so I never worked on such.
(Some agencies had waivers for same inside well-controlled areas.)
But I agree that no resetting index is indicative.


Interesting! Most of the security file cabinets where I worked
(an Army R&D lab) were Mosler -- over a period from about 1968 (when I
first started working there) through 1997 (when I retired). Only a very
few really old ones were from other sources.


Domestic waivers in low-security locations were likely SOP.
(I assume you had no TS or SCI material in your containers.)

The S&G's had several "relock" schemes. One was a solder blob;
heat the box and it melts. The other was the the back cover
relock. Lose either and drilling is pointless.


Hmm ... the S&Gs which I worked with (a surplus lot of used
security file cabinets) had only the back cover one. Of course, put the
thing inside a fire-resistant file cabinet (which these were) and there
is not much likelyhood of an attack by heat -- other than a real fire.


The relock was to defeat the foe with a torch. Of course, you
could cut the drawer front off, but "all locks are time locks;
some just take longer.." is true. And the location was such that
you better be quick AND quiet; otherwise the Marine with a
sidearm and an 870 shotgun would be making sure you didn't have
any need to leave quickly.

I can't be sure but looking at
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/630-674_8500_ins_op.pdf
has revived old neurons. See the pictures on Page 1. The
lever just above the words "Torque Adjusting Gear" is held
depressed by the back cover; if it's not pushed in, the other
end blocks the bolt from retracting. When the cover is in place,
no problem. BUT, ISTM the inside of the back cover has the
"solder" button; heat it, it melts and the relock lever moves.
{It's not solder; it was lower temp; an antimony mix or ???}

Also note at the bottom of the wheel, you can see
the change clutch. It's the square hole. And
http://cf.mp-cdn.net/78/fe/bd278d79442dd57131a81cf0ed42.jpg is
a change key.

I can't find a better shot but at least
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/assets/images/BCB_6730_body.jpg
is in color.

The Mosler ones would probably die from the wheels melting (Delrin, not
the brass layers of the S&G key resettable ones.)


Delrin wheels were options on S&G 8400 & 8500's.

BTW, the 8400 have a thumbturn you twist after entering the
combination; 8500's you PUSH and then turn to open the gate.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,507
Default Mosler safe combination

David Lesher wrote:

{It's not solder; it was lower temp; an antimony mix or ???}


Wood's metal? It's fun to make a spoon with that, and watch somebody
stir their coffee. ;-)

It's probably illegal now, because it's got lead in it. )-;

Thanks,
Rich

  #48   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,380
Default Mosler safe combination

On Jan 20, 2:27*pm, Jim Stewart wrote:
Ignoramus3982 wrote:
Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.


Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my truck?
Just to have it checked etc?


I think Roger Shoaf is a locksmith. *You might
try sending him an email.

Most locksmiths are highly protective of any
sort of information they have concerning opening
locks. *They will generally treat you as a thief
unless they know you.


That has been my experience.

Considering that I have known more about the safes in question than
those being pressed into experience, it has given me an insight into
the massive ego of locksmiths.

TMT
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,104
Default Mosler safe combination

On Jan 23, 9:21*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 20, 2:27*pm, Jim Stewart wrote:

Ignoramus3982 wrote:
Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.


Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my truck?
Just to have it checked etc?


I think Roger Shoaf is a locksmith. *You might
try sending him an email.


Most locksmiths are highly protective of any
sort of information they have concerning opening
locks. *They will generally treat you as a thief
unless they know you.


That has been my experience.

Considering that I have known more about the safes in question than
those being pressed into experience, it has given me an insight into
the massive ego of locksmiths.

TMT


Well, there's ego, and I imagine there's also a degree of liability
that concerns them.
  #50   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,584
Default Mosler safe combination

On 2011-01-23, David Lesher wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes:


[ ... ]

The relock was to defeat the foe with a torch. Of course, you
could cut the drawer front off, but "all locks are time locks;
some just take longer.." is true. And the location was such that
you better be quick AND quiet; otherwise the Marine with a
sidearm and an 870 shotgun would be making sure you didn't have
any need to leave quickly.


:-)

I can't be sure but looking at
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/630-674_8500_ins_op.pdf
has revived old neurons. See the pictures on Page 1. The
lever just above the words "Torque Adjusting Gear" is held
depressed by the back cover;


Yep -- very familiar. What is different is the last stage of
unlocking -- which you covered in the comments at the end.

if it's not pushed in, the other
end blocks the bolt from retracting. When the cover is in place,
no problem. BUT, ISTM the inside of the back cover has the
"solder" button; heat it, it melts and the relock lever moves.
{It's not solder; it was lower temp; an antimony mix or ???}


Babbit bearing metal? One of the low-temperature casting
alloys?

Also note at the bottom of the wheel, you can see
the change clutch. It's the square hole. And
http://cf.mp-cdn.net/78/fe/bd278d79442dd57131a81cf0ed42.jpg is
a change key.


Sure -- very familiar. There were actually several of those
from S&G for different series of locks. The principle was the same, bu
the dimensions varied.

I can't find a better shot but at least
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/assets/images/BCB_6730_body.jpg
is in color.

The Mosler ones would probably die from the wheels melting (Delrin, not
the brass layers of the S&G key resettable ones.)


Delrin wheels were options on S&G 8400 & 8500's.


O.K. Just not experienced on the ones which I worked with.

BTW, the 8400 have a thumbturn you twist after entering the
combination; 8500's you PUSH and then turn to open the gate.


Yep -- that is the difference. And it makes it more tricky to
install, based on the manual you pointed to.

Oh yes -- the question about TS in the part which I snipped.
Certainly not in the ones which I worked with, but I don't know about
throughout the lab. I wasn't cleared for TS anyway. (And just as glad,
watching what my wife had to go through. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


  #51   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 669
Default Mosler safe combination

Matt Blaze's paper has much better pictures of locks; they are
not S&G's for the most part but are quite similar....

http://www.crypto.com/papers/safelocks.pdf
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #52   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Mosler safe combination

Awesome, thanks

On 2011-01-21, catguy wrote:

"Ignoramus3982" wrote in message
...
Won a Mosler combination safe on ebay and am wondering about
something: is it possible to change the combination on such a safe?
This is a safe that opens with a key AND combination dial.

Also, is it wise to take it to a locksmith while it is in my truck?
Just to have it checked etc?

i


Found this. It's worth a try.....Paul



How to Change the Combination to a Mosler Safe
B. C. Bryant

Instructions
Things You'll Need:
a.. Safe key Current combination to the safe
a.. Step 1:
Locate the change mark. Look for the change mark on the dial ring around 11 o'clock.
b.. Step 2:
Dial the combination that currently opens the Mosler safe on this change mark. Do not return to
"0" on the dial ring. Simply stop on the final number to the current combination.
c.. Step 3:
Locate the flat rod. On the left side of the safe, near the front of the drawer, you will see a
small, flat rod. This rod must be up in order for the handle to raise. Having the flat rod up will
allow you to lock the Mosler safe with the drawer open.
d.. Step 4:
Redial the current combination in the same way described in Step 2.
e.. Step 5:
Insert the key into the back of the lock and turn halfway; that is, turn the key halfway around,
180 degrees. Do not complete the full circle.
f.. Step 6:
Dial the new combination starting at the 11 'o clock mark discussed in Step 1. Be sure to stop on
the last number. Do not use a number less than 20 for the last number.
g.. Step 7:
Turn key back and remove the key from the lock.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Combination machines. Robatoy Woodworking 36 February 16th 06 11:23 PM
Combination Boiler SOS muthaleech UK diy 2 February 10th 06 11:45 PM
Hilka safe combination? Andrew Gabriel UK diy 7 July 5th 05 01:41 PM
What's a combination saw? Paper2002AD UK diy 4 November 9th 04 05:58 PM
Combination Boilers David Tate UK diy 3 July 8th 03 10:14 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"