[Bob La Londe]

I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the neat
like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate stacks of
stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There isn't
one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Anyway, the broken motor is an Electro Craft 07 03 02 049. As near as I can
tell its no longer made, but ElectroCraft has made various incarnations of
this motor over the years. Anybody know what a good replacement might be?
How about having a good used one (or two (spare)) laying around you would
sell cheap?

P.S. I have already decided that I am going to retrofit this thing to a new
controller and run it either with Mach or EMC.

P.P.S. I'll figure out what shaft encoders I want to use when I figure out
what driver/controller I want to use.

P.P.P.S. Not sure about the whole air brake thing. There is a brake
caliper and brake disc on the spindle, but both the spindle and the Z-Axis
move manually by hand with no air and no power to the machine. Seems if it
was fail secure it would be locked.

[Ignoramus7319]

I have a set of servos that may work.

Your story sounds a little hard to believe, do you think that it was a
retrofit attempt gone bad?

i

On 2010-12-30, Bob La Londe wrote:
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the neat
like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate stacks of
stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There isn't
one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Anyway, the broken motor is an Electro Craft 07 03 02 049. As near as I can
tell its no longer made, but ElectroCraft has made various incarnations of
this motor over the years. Anybody know what a good replacement might be?
How about having a good used one (or two (spare)) laying around you would
sell cheap?

P.S. I have already decided that I am going to retrofit this thing to a new
controller and run it either with Mach or EMC.

P.P.S. I'll figure out what shaft encoders I want to use when I figure out
what driver/controller I want to use.

P.P.P.S. Not sure about the whole air brake thing. There is a brake
caliper and brake disc on the spindle, but both the spindle and the Z-Axis
move manually by hand with no air and no power to the machine. Seems if it
was fail secure it would be locked.

[Bob La Londe[_2_]]

"Ignoramus7319" wrote in message
...
I have a set of servos that may work.

Your story sounds a little hard to believe, do you think that it was a
retrofit attempt gone bad?

No, it was originally a CNC machine, and all the parts have Hurco tags. I
think something ran into it while it was warehoused. The fiberglass cover
over that motor looks different than all the rest of the paint. Like it was
newer or off a different machine or something. As far as encoders its not
uncommon for 20-30 year old plastic to fall apart. The encoder on the X
axis looked smashed. The one on the Y axis was intact, but crumbled when I
touched it. I was a little surprised that there was no encoder or even a
pigtail for one on the Z axis.

You want to call me and talk about those servos? (how big, voltage, shaft
size, etc)

Or if its more convenient just drop me an e-mail with motor
specs/model/price to:
bob(at)yumabassman(dot)com

My cell is (nine two eight) 580 - one two seven zero

Or if you don't have free long distance
eight hundred 296 nine 765

It was sold as a non working machine, so I was surprised when I went to pick
it up and was told that it mostly did work. I was planning on retrofitting
it anyway. If any of the servo motors etc are good its really a bonus.


Bob




i

On 2010-12-30, Bob La Londe wrote:
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely
bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the
neat
like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate stacks
of
stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There
isn't
one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Anyway, the broken motor is an Electro Craft 07 03 02 049. As near as I
can
tell its no longer made, but ElectroCraft has made various incarnations
of
this motor over the years. Anybody know what a good replacement might
be?
How about having a good used one (or two (spare)) laying around you would
sell cheap?

P.S. I have already decided that I am going to retrofit this thing to a
new
controller and run it either with Mach or EMC.

P.P.S. I'll figure out what shaft encoders I want to use when I figure
out
what driver/controller I want to use.

P.P.P.S. Not sure about the whole air brake thing. There is a brake
caliper and brake disc on the spindle, but both the spindle and the
Z-Axis
move manually by hand with no air and no power to the machine. Seems if
it
was fail secure it would be locked.

[Bob La Londe[_5_]]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the
neat like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate
stacks of stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There
isn't one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Ok... I found the Z-axis encoder and why I didn't see a pigtail for it. Its
way up under all that heavy metal on the head on top of the ball screw
rather than on the motor.

[Jon Elson]

Bob La Londe wrote:
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the neat
like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate stacks of
stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There isn't
one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Anyway, the broken motor is an Electro Craft 07 03 02 049. As near as I can
tell its no longer made, but ElectroCraft has made various incarnations of
this motor over the years. Anybody know what a good replacement might be?
How about having a good used one (or two (spare)) laying around you would
sell cheap?


Based on your description, you don't WANT another of these motors in
used condition!
It will be crumbling, too. What you want to do is figure out if the
motor is a standard
NEMA size, or even close, and then search for other motors to fit.

Jon

[Jon Elson]

Bob La Londe wrote:
No, it was originally a CNC machine, and all the parts have Hurco tags. I
think something ran into it while it was warehoused. The fiberglass cover
over that motor looks different than all the rest of the paint. Like it was
newer or off a different machine or something. As far as encoders its not
uncommon for 20-30 year old plastic to fall apart. The encoder on the X
axis looked smashed. The one on the Y axis was intact, but crumbled when I
touched it. I was a little surprised that there was no encoder or even a
pigtail for one on the Z axis.

A mixture of coolant and way oils is pretty hard on most plastics.
There are some that
seem really resistant, like used by Fanuc, but many others do
deteriorate when exposed
to all that muck in the typical shop.

Jon

[Ignoramus7319]

On 2010-12-31, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely bad.
The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like the
neat like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two seperate
stacks of stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There
isn't one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Ok... I found the Z-axis encoder and why I didn't see a pigtail for it. Its
way up under all that heavy metal on the head on top of the ball screw
rather than on the motor.




That's good. Do you know if the busted encoders are the usual
differential quadrature 5v type?

i

[Bob La Londe[_5_]]

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
I started just checking things out on the Hurco KMB1. The shaft encoder
came off with the cover on the X axis. Also, the motor is definitely
bad. The shaft wobbles in the housing. I already pulled it off. I like
the neat like flex coupling even if its a pain to get to. Its two
seperate stacks of stainless spring flex plates. Very simple and
elegant.

The shaft encoder plastic crumbled and fell apart on the Y axis also.

There appears to have never been a shaft encoder on the Z-axis. There
isn't one, and I don't see a pigtail for it to plug in like on the X & Y.

Anyway, the broken motor is an Electro Craft 07 03 02 049. As near as I
can tell its no longer made, but ElectroCraft has made various
incarnations of this motor over the years. Anybody know what a good
replacement might be? How about having a good used one (or two (spare))
laying around you would sell cheap?


Based on your description, you don't WANT another of these motors in used
condition!
It will be crumbling, too. What you want to do is figure out if the motor
is a standard
NEMA size, or even close, and then search for other motors to fit.

The encoder crumbled. Not the motor. The motor looks like it took a nasty
hit. The other two motors are fine.

[Gunner Asch[_6_]]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:13:35 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote:
No, it was originally a CNC machine, and all the parts have Hurco tags. I
think something ran into it while it was warehoused. The fiberglass cover
over that motor looks different than all the rest of the paint. Like it was
newer or off a different machine or something. As far as encoders its not
uncommon for 20-30 year old plastic to fall apart. The encoder on the X
axis looked smashed. The one on the Y axis was intact, but crumbled when I
touched it. I was a little surprised that there was no encoder or even a
pigtail for one on the Z axis.

A mixture of coolant and way oils is pretty hard on most plastics.
There are some that
seem really resistant, like used by Fanuc, but many others do
deteriorate when exposed
to all that muck in the typical shop.

Jon

Thank Crom for that!! Its one of the ways I make a living!!!

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

[Karl Townsend]

....
I am not so sure, I thought that Mach could also run servo motors
also.

Pete is going to jump all over this one, so listen to his opinion
also.

Mach sends out step pulses only, no feedback. A work around step to
servo amp is made to use servos with Mach. A huge kludge in my
opinion. I will conceed this is an opinion not held by all.

Karl

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh[_3_]]

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:


Mach sends out step pulses only, no feedback. A work around step to
servo amp is made to use servos with Mach. A huge kludge in my
opinion. I will conceed this is an opinion not held by all.


If Mach 3 does nothing more than simulate an open loop stepper when using
servos, then I owe you a debt of gratitude. I was considering a Mach3
conversion kit for my R2E4. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if
that is true!

Thanks.

LLoyd

[Ignoramus7397]

On 2010-12-31, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:


Mach sends out step pulses only, no feedback. A work around step to
servo amp is made to use servos with Mach. A huge kludge in my
opinion. I will conceed this is an opinion not held by all.


If Mach 3 does nothing more than simulate an open loop stepper when using
servos, then I owe you a debt of gratitude. I was considering a Mach3
conversion kit for my R2E4. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if
that is true!

I would find out, to me a CNC system that does not do servos (or use a
step emulation layer) is kind of worthless. Interesting.

i

[Bob La Londe[_5_]]

On 2010-12-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

Your spindle sounds like a DC servo
but double check.

Why do you think that? It looks like a large 3 phase motor to me. 6 leads
going into it plus a ground. The Mitsubishi inverter tends to support that.
It doesn't look anything like a conventional servo and its about ten times
the size, LOL.

Speaking of VFDs. I had been looking at rotary phase converters to power
this machine, but why not just use a 1 phase in 3 phase out VFD rated for
the horsepower of the motor? It looks like the net cost would be about the
same. If I empty box the machine its not going to make any difference to
the rest of it.

And speaking of empty box... Any reason to keep that huge control box on
that big swing arm. Seems like its just in the way.

P.S. It looks like Iggy's spare servos run to fast for this machine.
Anybody else got some that might work? Yes, I have been shopping around
too.

[Ignoramus7397]

On 2010-12-31, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2010-12-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

Your spindle sounds like a DC servo
but double check.

Why do you think that? It looks like a large 3 phase motor to me. 6 leads
going into it plus a ground. The Mitsubishi inverter tends to support that.
It doesn't look anything like a conventional servo and its about ten times
the size, LOL.

It is a 3 HP 3 phase motor.

Speaking of VFDs. I had been looking at rotary phase converters to power
this machine, but why not just use a 1 phase in 3 phase out VFD rated for
the horsepower of the motor?

This is DEFINITELY the way to go.

I recently helped my friend rewire a Hurco KM1 to 220v from 440v, so I
know something and my memory is still fresh.

The way the KM1 works is that it is a three phase mill, but only so to
run the spindle motor, the optional coolant pump and the optional
chiller whatever (my friend had neither).

All control stuff runs from 1 phase ONLY. No weirdness like in other
machines (say my Bridgeport) that need all three phases to run the
control.

So, converting it to single phase is very easy.

It looks like the net cost would be about the same. If I empty box
the machine its not going to make any difference to the rest of it.

If your control is bad, this becomes your only choice. Does the
control boot? Got pictures?

And speaking of empty box... Any reason to keep that huge control box on
that big swing arm. Seems like its just in the way.

post a pic.

I put a monitor and a drawer cabinet into mine, works great.

P.S. It looks like Iggy's spare servos run to fast for this
machine. Anybody else got some that might work? Yes, I have been
shopping around too.

I sold a shipload of Fanuc A06 motors a while ago... $100 each.

i

[Ignoramus7397]

On 2010-12-31, Ignoramus7397 wrote:
All control stuff runs from 1 phase ONLY. No weirdness like in other
machines (say my Bridgeport) that need all three phases to run the
control.

And servo transformer too, is a 1 phase thing.

i

[Karl Townsend]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 08:57:19 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

On 2010-12-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

Your spindle sounds like a DC servo
but double check.

Why do you think that? It looks like a large 3 phase motor to me. 6 leads
going into it plus a ground. The Mitsubishi inverter tends to support that.
It doesn't look anything like a conventional servo and its about ten times
the size, LOL.

Speaking of VFDs. I had been looking at rotary phase converters to power
this machine, but why not just use a 1 phase in 3 phase out VFD rated for
the horsepower of the motor? It looks like the net cost would be about the
same. If I empty box the machine its not going to make any difference to
the rest of it.

OK, yes a VFD is the way to go. At some point you'll want a VFD brake
resistor and a spindle encoder. Don't need to do this right away.

And speaking of empty box... Any reason to keep that huge control box on
that big swing arm. Seems like its just in the way.

Send a link to pics of this again. I often put a flat screen monitor
and keyboard on the operator input panel. I'm thinking that's what
this is. If so, a jog handwheel, jog buttons and Mcode switches will
be very nice future upgrades

P.S. It looks like Iggy's spare servos run to fast for this machine.
Anybody else got some that might work? Yes, I have been shopping around
too.

is your existing motor beyond repair? Take it loose and put a 12 volt
charger on the big leads. if it still turns you could rebuild the
bearings and brushes. Or if it doesn't turn it still could be just
bearings and brushes. Otherwise, ebay is your friend.

[Karl Townsend]

Me too, but I was working up my nerve to tackle that. I was thinking that I
would save the DC power supply if I can figure out exactly what parts are
it. Its got a Mitsubishi VFD also that may be salvageable.

Yep, the VFD should be good.

a power supply is easy to spot. You have a transfomer then a
rectifier that's nomrally a little black square box with four leads,
sometimes more than one. Wires come from the AC to the transformer to
the rectifier and then on to a bunch of round metal cans (capacitors)

Karl

[Bob La Londe[_5_]]

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

Me too, but I was working up my nerve to tackle that. I was thinking that
I
would save the DC power supply if I can figure out exactly what parts are
it. Its got a Mitsubishi VFD also that may be salvageable.

Yep, the VFD should be good.

a power supply is easy to spot. You have a transfomer then a
rectifier that's nomrally a little black square box with four leads,
sometimes more than one. Wires come from the AC to the transformer to
the rectifier and then on to a bunch of round metal cans (capacitors)

That's basically what I expected, but I didn't see "the little black box."
I need to follow the wires and see. There is a circuit board with some
transistors next to the transformer and some large caps that look about
right. I was expecting to see diodes. Maybe I need to look at it in
daylight with the overhead door open. Or just throw some power on the
transformer and see where I get DC.

[Bob La Londe]

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message

is your existing motor beyond repair?

Oh, yeah! Its definitely beyond my concept of repair. I got the coupler
and mounting plate off the motor, and I could see the plug that holds the
springs washers and bearing in tight was pushed out. Thinking this might be
a repair suitable for a learning experience on the mini lathe (bore hole,
rethread, and make a new plug), but when I got the end cap off I found the
casting around the shaft was broken and the shaft was pushed forward. This
motor definitely took a blow, and not a glancing one. I guess I could send
it to somebody and hope they give me a couple dollars off for a replacement,
but this one is crumbled toast. I suspect I would be beter off just to save
the parts for some future project and take the winding to the recycler.