I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

On Sep 1, 12:48*pm, Ignoramus4117
wrote:
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

Parabolic drills work well.

jsw

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

From the OmniTurn users guide...

G83 Zn Kn Fn Rn Ln Cn



In G90, absolute mode: Z specifies the end of the point of the hole
from the part Zero.
In G91, incremental mode: Z specifies the distance the tool will travel
from the starting point .

Start location: Position the drill where you want the first drill peck
to start. After the first peck the
drill will rapid out to the R location, and then back to where it
started less the C value.

K specifies the depth of cut per peck.
F is the drilling feedrate in inches per rev or minute depending on
whether you are in G94 or G95.
R is the retraction plane, the tool will rapid back to this location at
the end of each peck. Default
is the starting point of the cycle
L is the rapid travel feed rate for the retraction move, noted in IPM.
Default is 200ipm
C is the clearance distance left when the drill returns to the cut.
Default is .02”




I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

I

I have stuck and snapped a couple drill bits peck drilling aluminum with
what I thought was very conservative feed and step depths.

On 2010-09-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

From the OmniTurn users guide...

G83 Zn Kn Fn Rn Ln Cn


G83 is what I used too,


In G90, absolute mode: Z specifies the end of the point of the hole
from the part Zero.
In G91, incremental mode: Z specifies the distance the tool will travel
from the starting point .

Start location: Position the drill where you want the first drill peck
to start. After the first peck the
drill will rapid out to the R location, and then back to where it
started less the C value.

K specifies the depth of cut per peck.
F is the drilling feedrate in inches per rev or minute depending on
whether you are in G94 or G95.
R is the retraction plane, the tool will rapid back to this location at
the end of each peck. Default
is the starting point of the cycle
L is the rapid travel feed rate for the retraction move, noted in IPM.
Default is 200ipm
C is the clearance distance left when the drill returns to the cut.
Default is .02?

Yeah, I used this, it just took seemingly forever.

I will try to practice on a piece of junk tonight, with higher
feedrates.

i

On 2010-09-01, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

I

I have stuck and snapped a couple drill bits peck drilling aluminum with
what I thought was very conservative feed and step depths.


Did you use coolant?

The nice thing about peck drilling with coolant, is that the hole is
completely filled with coolant.

i

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:17:32 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Sep 1, 12:48*pm, Ignoramus4117
wrote:
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

Parabolic drills work well.

jsw

Indeed. Probably the best for deep drilling aluminim. The long, wide
flutes really get rid of the aluminum, particuarly with a good
lubricating coolant.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

karl

i

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

I

I have stuck and snapped a couple drill bits peck drilling aluminum with
what I thought was very conservative feed and step depths.

Too conservative can cause problems as well with not evacuating chips
fast enough and resulting binding.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:38:25 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

From the OmniTurn users guide...

G83 Zn Kn Fn Rn Ln Cn


G83 is what I used too,


In G90, absolute mode: Z specifies the end of the point of the hole
from the part Zero.
In G91, incremental mode: Z specifies the distance the tool will travel
from the starting point .

Start location: Position the drill where you want the first drill peck
to start. After the first peck the
drill will rapid out to the R location, and then back to where it
started less the C value.

K specifies the depth of cut per peck.
F is the drilling feedrate in inches per rev or minute depending on
whether you are in G94 or G95.
R is the retraction plane, the tool will rapid back to this location at
the end of each peck. Default
is the starting point of the cycle
L is the rapid travel feed rate for the retraction move, noted in IPM.
Default is 200ipm
C is the clearance distance left when the drill returns to the cut.
Default is .02?

Yeah, I used this, it just took seemingly forever.

I will try to practice on a piece of junk tonight, with higher
feedrates.

i

Whats your max feed rate for retract? And what do you use for drilling
feedrate? You can be fairly aggressive on aluminum.

And you can go fairly deep with each peck, particulary if you are using
a nice sharp parabolic and coolant.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

i

"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

As a side note: If an exact precisely round hole is not absolutely required
I've found that often it seems to work faster to use a slightly smaller end
mill and make a round pocket rather than to "drill" a hole.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

'Xactly the problem.

On Sep 1, 4:25*pm, Ignoramus4117
wrote:
On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:



On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

i

If that is happening, you are not feeding fast enough.
If you get aggressive, the chips will be a flying, not stringy.

On Sep 1, 5:25*pm, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

i

I do not have any cnc machines. But drilling aluminum on a regular
drill press, I feed pretty hard and get a stringy chip coming out.
When it get as long as I care to have it, I just hesitate on the feed
for an instant. This causes the chip to break, and then I feed hard
again so the new chip pushes the old chip out of the hole.

So you might try not actually pulling the bit out of the hole. Just
stop feeding for about one revolution and then start feeding again.

On steel that does not make stringy chips, I peck and pull the bit out
of the work so the chips get out of the hole.

Dan

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

'Xactly the problem.


Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.

i

On 2010-09-02, wrote:
On Sep 1, 5:25?pm, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

i

I do not have any cnc machines. But drilling aluminum on a regular
drill press, I feed pretty hard and get a stringy chip coming out.
When it get as long as I care to have it, I just hesitate on the feed
for an instant. This causes the chip to break, and then I feed hard
again so the new chip pushes the old chip out of the hole.

So you might try not actually pulling the bit out of the hole. Just
stop feeding for about one revolution and then start feeding again.

On steel that does not make stringy chips, I peck and pull the bit out
of the work so the chips get out of the hole.

Dan


Dan, I think that your idea is really great. I will write a G code
subroutine for it right now.

i

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

i

You want speed, right?


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively).
I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for
deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a
much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed,
no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

'Xactly the problem.


Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.


Are you using a peck drill g-code or your own routine to simulate a peck
drill cycle?

It should retract at max speed, which makes a difference.

Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.

i

Standard drill cycle G82. I don't use it much, but it is faster. When
you get more than say 4D deep, the chips often quit feeding. The
result is a broken drill JAMMED in the hole. Happens most often on
nearly finished parts. DAMHIKT

I don't try for top speed on one of parts. Start machine and do
something else. I like to see how many machines I can run at once -
four is the norm.

Or I use run time to surf RCM or even clean up the shop.


' drill cycle with dwell
' format is G82 X_ Y_ Z_ R_ F_ D_ Q_
' X is coordinate
' Y is coordinate
' Z is bottom of hole Z value
' F is feed
' R is start point at top of hole, can be ommitted, then start point
is current Z readout
' D is dwell time
' Q is dwell peck distance, if 0 only dwell at bottom of hole

Ignoramus4117 wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed, no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

'Xactly the problem.


Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.

i

No dwell is required to break the chips. The chips will break the
instant you stop cutting, i.e. when you reverse the feed to retract. The
bit is still spinning and no new metal is being cut to grow the chips,
so they break off from where the cut ended. Any dwell only add time for
the chips to rub more, generate more friction heat, gall the inside of
the hole and potentially jam. The whole idea of a peck drill cycle is to
get down to where you are cutting fast, make a short cut and get the
heck out of the hole fast to evacuate the chips.

On 2010-09-02, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus4117" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:25:07 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:33:29 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 -0500, Ignoramus4117
wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively).
I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for
deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a
much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

nobody giving you numbers. I'd go 8 IPM and peck of .125 (1/2 D) if
its a 1/4" drill. But I got dials to quickly change feed and speed,
no
doubt an adjust would be in order on part one. Don't consider me the
definitive expert on speeds and feeds - I do it all by feel.

Karl, I mostly do it by feel too. I will get a piece of junk tonight
and will practice somewhat if I have time. Thanks for the suggestion.

i

on second thought, i go a full D in AL, 1/2D in steel per peck. Or .25
for 1/4" drill, etc.

But them, I would have long stringy chips hanging on the drill bit,
beating up loc-lines?

'Xactly the problem.


Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.


Are you using a peck drill g-code or your own routine to simulate a peck
drill cycle?

It should retract at max speed, which makes a difference.


Yes, I used peck drilling cycle and it did retract at max speed (it is
actually fun to watch). It also plunged back down at max speed also.

i

On 2010-09-02, Karl Townsend wrote:

Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.

i

Standard drill cycle G82. I don't use it much, but it is faster. When
you get more than say 4D deep, the chips often quit feeding. The
result is a broken drill JAMMED in the hole. Happens most often on
nearly finished parts. DAMHIKT

So G83 is still safer? Right?

I don't try for top speed on one of parts. Start machine and do
something else. I like to see how many machines I can run at once -
four is the norm.

Or I use run time to surf RCM or even clean up the shop.

I now browse the web, etc from the CNC mill. I configured the kernel
to dedicate one CPU to realtime tasks only, so no matter what I do on
the other CPU, does not affect the realtime task.


i


' drill cycle with dwell
' format is G82 X_ Y_ Z_ R_ F_ D_ Q_
' X is coordinate
' Y is coordinate
' Z is bottom of hole Z value
' F is feed
' R is start point at top of hole, can be ommitted, then start point
is current Z readout
' D is dwell time
' Q is dwell peck distance, if 0 only dwell at bottom of hole

On 2010-09-02, Pete C. wrote:
No dwell is required to break the chips. The chips will break the
instant you stop cutting, i.e. when you reverse the feed to retract. The
bit is still spinning and no new metal is being cut to grow the chips,
so they break off from where the cut ended. Any dwell only add time for
the chips to rub more, generate more friction heat, gall the inside of
the hole and potentially jam. The whole idea of a peck drill cycle is to
get down to where you are cutting fast, make a short cut and get the
heck out of the hole fast to evacuate the chips.

Pete, I thought that a dwell would not be accompanied by withdrawing
of the drill. Just dwell, break chips and keep drilling.

Anyway, it is really fun to watch the mill use a peck and drill
cycle. I will try to up the speed.

I crashed yesterday and went to bed early as I was very tired. Had no
time to try anything. I will take pictures of my manual Bridgeport
tonight.

i

On 2010-09-02, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Anyway, it is really fun to watch the mill use a peck and drill
cycle. I will try to up the speed.

I meant to say "up the feed rate"

i

Ignoramus28169 wrote:

On 2010-09-02, Pete C. wrote:
No dwell is required to break the chips. The chips will break the
instant you stop cutting, i.e. when you reverse the feed to retract. The
bit is still spinning and no new metal is being cut to grow the chips,
so they break off from where the cut ended. Any dwell only add time for
the chips to rub more, generate more friction heat, gall the inside of
the hole and potentially jam. The whole idea of a peck drill cycle is to
get down to where you are cutting fast, make a short cut and get the
heck out of the hole fast to evacuate the chips.

Pete, I thought that a dwell would not be accompanied by withdrawing
of the drill. Just dwell, break chips and keep drilling.

If you use that method, you need to do it one of two ways - either with
very short feeds between momentary dwells so you produce small chips
that will feed up the drill flutes without jamming, or very long
aggressive feeds to make continuous chips all the way up the flutes,
break them and then do the same again to force those chips up and out.
Anything in between is likely to jam badly.


Anyway, it is really fun to watch the mill use a peck and drill
cycle. I will try to up the speed.

You can go quite aggressive in most aluminum (except a few gummy
alloys), aluminum is generally very nice to machine.


I crashed yesterday and went to bed early as I was very tired. Had no
time to try anything. I will take pictures of my manual Bridgeport
tonight.

i

I know the feeling, I've had a bunch of different projects going on here
lately. After finishing that island table, I went right to working on a
1954 Ford NAA tractor overhaul, which I am hoping to complete and get
out of the way before coming back with the new mill. In parallel with
those projects I have also been working on a remodeling project at a
friends store, and of course also my "real" job.

....
I know the feeling, I've had a bunch of different projects going on here
lately. After finishing that island table, I went right to working on a
1954 Ford NAA tractor overhaul, which I am hoping to complete and get
out of the way before coming back with the new mill. In parallel with
those projects I have also been working on a remodeling project at a
friends store, and of course also my "real" job.

Does that NAA have a live PTO? My '53 Golden Jubilee NAA does not. I
had heard this was the last year without the live PTO.

Karl

Say, I'll mention the Achilles' heel on that machine. its the Sherman
set up/step down tranny. There is no way to add oil to this tranny
located under the steering column. It runs dry and the front bearing
and main tranny shaft burn out. No more parts available from Ford.
Long wait at any salvage yard for a replacement tranny priced at $500
(eight years ago)

Luckily, I knew a machinist with three days to spare after mine burned
up and locked the tractor wheels solid.

If you have yours apart give this unit some long overdue attention.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

Say, I'll mention the Achilles' heel on that machine. its the Sherman
set up/step down tranny. There is no way to add oil to this tranny
located under the steering column. It runs dry and the front bearing
and main tranny shaft burn out. No more parts available from Ford.
Long wait at any salvage yard for a replacement tranny priced at $500
(eight years ago)

Luckily, I knew a machinist with three days to spare after mine burned
up and locked the tractor wheels solid.

If you have yours apart give this unit some long overdue attention.

Karl

No Sherman over/under on this unit. I'm not positive on the live PTO,
the Jubilee / NAA has live hydraulics, and there was some aftermarket
kit for live PTO. It's reported that this unit may have that
modification, but I'm not far enough in to be sure. I got it running the
other day, next on the agenda is to go through the hydraulics and see
what may need to be done there.

"Pete C." wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Say, I'll mention the Achilles' heel on that machine. its the Sherman
set up/step down tranny. There is no way to add oil to this tranny
located under the steering column. It runs dry and the front bearing
and main tranny shaft burn out. No more parts available from Ford.
Long wait at any salvage yard for a replacement tranny priced at $500
(eight years ago)

Luckily, I knew a machinist with three days to spare after mine burned
up and locked the tractor wheels solid.

If you have yours apart give this unit some long overdue attention.

Karl

No Sherman over/under on this unit. I'm not positive on the live PTO,
the Jubilee / NAA has live hydraulics, and there was some aftermarket
kit for live PTO. It's reported that this unit may have that
modification, but I'm not far enough in to be sure. I got it running the
other day, next on the agenda is to go through the hydraulics and see
what may need to be done there.

One thought on that Sherman trans issue - Since the Jubilee / NAA has
live hydraulics, perhaps you can plumb a line to supply lube to the add
on trans and of course a larger drain line back to the sump. I'd use the
UTF fluid for this of course vs. straight hydraulic fluid.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:00:35 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Say, I'll mention the Achilles' heel on that machine. its the Sherman
set up/step down tranny. There is no way to add oil to this tranny
located under the steering column. It runs dry and the front bearing
and main tranny shaft burn out. No more parts available from Ford.
Long wait at any salvage yard for a replacement tranny priced at $500
(eight years ago)

Luckily, I knew a machinist with three days to spare after mine burned
up and locked the tractor wheels solid.

If you have yours apart give this unit some long overdue attention.

Karl

No Sherman over/under on this unit. I'm not positive on the live PTO,
the Jubilee / NAA has live hydraulics, and there was some aftermarket
kit for live PTO. It's reported that this unit may have that
modification, but I'm not far enough in to be sure. I got it running the
other day, next on the agenda is to go through the hydraulics and see
what may need to be done there.

Let me know if you have ny questions. I know these old Ford tractors
well enough to lay all the right wrenches out in the order I'll need
them on any repair.


One thought on that Sherman trans issue - Since the Jubilee / NAA has
live hydraulics, perhaps you can plumb a line to supply lube to the add
on trans and of course a larger drain line back to the sump. I'd use the
UTF fluid for this of course vs. straight hydraulic fluid.

That's a real good thought.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:00:35 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Say, I'll mention the Achilles' heel on that machine. its the Sherman
set up/step down tranny. There is no way to add oil to this tranny
located under the steering column. It runs dry and the front bearing
and main tranny shaft burn out. No more parts available from Ford.
Long wait at any salvage yard for a replacement tranny priced at $500
(eight years ago)

Luckily, I knew a machinist with three days to spare after mine burned
up and locked the tractor wheels solid.

If you have yours apart give this unit some long overdue attention.

Karl

No Sherman over/under on this unit. I'm not positive on the live PTO,
the Jubilee / NAA has live hydraulics, and there was some aftermarket
kit for live PTO. It's reported that this unit may have that
modification, but I'm not far enough in to be sure. I got it running the
other day, next on the agenda is to go through the hydraulics and see
what may need to be done there.

Let me know if you have ny questions. I know these old Ford tractors
well enough to lay all the right wrenches out in the order I'll need
them on any repair.


One thought on that Sherman trans issue - Since the Jubilee / NAA has
live hydraulics, perhaps you can plumb a line to supply lube to the add
on trans and of course a larger drain line back to the sump. I'd use the
UTF fluid for this of course vs. straight hydraulic fluid.

That's a real good thought.

Karl

This is a tractor that a friend of mine just got cheap, not running
though had run a year or so earlier, reported may have hydraulic issue,
needs one new rear tire. For $1,200 probably not bad.

So far we have changed the oil and oil filter (has screw on adapter) and
put in good M1 5W-30. We cleaned and rebuilt the carb, replaced radiator
hoses and drained old coolant (refilled with water for now). We cleaned
up the wiring a bit, still have to complete the Delco alternator
connections. Also cleaned up fuel lines, etc.

It now starts and runs well, I set the idle to 450 RPM (optical
tachometer), and it runs up to higher RPM smoothly. I'm getting ready to
reinstall the hydraulic pump (piston style, removed while working on the
engine), drain and fill all three sumps with UTF and see what's up with
the hydraulics.

I have Kroil soaking on the brake drum screws and we'll see about
pulling and inspecting those eventually, though they do seem to be
working ok. Some bent lift links will spend some time in my press for
some straightening. Overall the tractor seems to be in fairly decent
shape.

I have Kroil soaking on the brake drum screws and we'll see about
pulling and inspecting those eventually, though they do seem to be
working ok. Some bent lift links will spend some time in my press for
some straightening. Overall the tractor seems to be in fairly decent
shape.

If you get those screws out without drilling, let me know. I've had to
use the left hand drill bit on the last six tractors.

The next weak point on this tractor is the rear axles. jack the rear
up and try to wobble the wheels side to side, most likely you'll have
a lot of play. There's a taper spline to replace. if not too bad, just
the spline on the hub, otherwise, the axle too (painful $)

If you want, a company called genesee products makes an electronic
points replacement that fits right in the distributor. I've left my
tractor sit over a month and tried it at -30. Starts in a second. of
course, that includes a change over to 12 volt GM alternator system
too.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have Kroil soaking on the brake drum screws and we'll see about
pulling and inspecting those eventually, though they do seem to be
working ok. Some bent lift links will spend some time in my press for
some straightening. Overall the tractor seems to be in fairly decent
shape.

If you get those screws out without drilling, let me know. I've had to
use the left hand drill bit on the last six tractors.

One on each side came out without even using Kroil. The other two didn't
want to unscrew by hand so I shot them with Kroil and let them sit a few
days. I'll probably try them with my impact driver to let the shock help
break any remaining rust.


The next weak point on this tractor is the rear axles. jack the rear
up and try to wobble the wheels side to side, most likely you'll have
a lot of play. There's a taper spline to replace. if not too bad, just
the spline on the hub, otherwise, the axle too (painful $)

They seem ok, but the wheels are off it at the moment.


If you want, a company called genesee products makes an electronic
points replacement that fits right in the distributor. I've left my
tractor sit over a month and tried it at -30. Starts in a second. of
course, that includes a change over to 12 volt GM alternator system
too.

Already have the Delco alternator and 12V batt on this one. I saw the
Genesee ignition modules, but so far the current ignition components are
ok. If they act up at some point I'll recommend going electronic. I've
got a nice little Kubota B7100DT, so I don't need no steenkin' ignition
on mine

What's that Lassie? You say that Ignoramus4117 fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:50:27 -0500:


Karl, what about this routine (with copious coolant): drill a small
increment, then dwell the drill for a small fraction of a second to
break chips, then continue. That would break chips, right? I could
literally stop the Z axis movement to dwell for several times per
second. Would that be enough? Withdrawing to SafeZ every time is very
time consuming.


If you look at the parameters in your controller, you should find one
relating to G83. You should be able to have it do just as you
describe. On the controllers that i use, the parameter is called "G83
high speed".
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On 2010-09-02, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
On 2010-09-02, Bob La Londe wrote:

[ ... ]

Are you using a peck drill g-code or your own routine to simulate a peck
drill cycle?

It should retract at max speed, which makes a difference.


Yes, I used peck drilling cycle and it did retract at max speed (it is
actually fun to watch). It also plunged back down at max speed also.

It *should* do that -- and switch to normal feed speed about
0.020" clear of the last cut bottom or so.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:28:42 +0100, Ade V
wrote:

did gone and wrote:

I was making something on the CNC mill last night. It is a little
block that I would clamp to the quill of the mill, so that I would
attach the Loc-Line coolant line to the quill. That way the coolant
would follow the cutting tool as the quill is raised or lowered.

Anyway, as part of that, I had to drill a deep hole (comparatively). I
used a peck drilling cycle and it worked, but took way too long, with
withdrawal of the tool and lowering it down, etc.

So I wanted to double check what is the recommended procedure for deep
drilling aluminum.

My feeling is that at the given RPM of 2400, I should have used a much
more aggressive feed rate than I used.

i

How deep is deep?

I drilled a 5/8" hole some 19" deep, using a tapered twist drill,
initial peck was around 4", subsequent pecks around 1/2". Coolant was
manually sprayed WD40 whenever the drill bit was retracted for cleaning.
It took about an hour to drill the hole, on a manual Bridgeport.

If I were doing holes that size/depth on a regular basis, I'd spend the
$$$ on a gun drill & pumped coolant unit


as a side note..I do have (3) brand new gun drill bits in my gear that
are up for sale.


And a decent (last time I looked) gun drill with a max debth of about
18"

Id sell them all rather cheaply.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"Pete C." wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have Kroil soaking on the brake drum screws and we'll see about
pulling and inspecting those eventually, though they do seem to be
working ok. Some bent lift links will spend some time in my press for
some straightening. Overall the tractor seems to be in fairly decent
shape.

If you get those screws out without drilling, let me know. I've had to
use the left hand drill bit on the last six tractors.

One on each side came out without even using Kroil. The other two didn't
want to unscrew by hand so I shot them with Kroil and let them sit a few
days. I'll probably try them with my impact driver to let the shock help
break any remaining rust.


The next weak point on this tractor is the rear axles. jack the rear
up and try to wobble the wheels side to side, most likely you'll have
a lot of play. There's a taper spline to replace. if not too bad, just
the spline on the hub, otherwise, the axle too (painful $)

They seem ok, but the wheels are off it at the moment.


If you want, a company called genesee products makes an electronic
points replacement that fits right in the distributor. I've left my
tractor sit over a month and tried it at -30. Starts in a second. of
course, that includes a change over to 12 volt GM alternator system
too.

Already have the Delco alternator and 12V batt on this one. I saw the
Genesee ignition modules, but so far the current ignition components are
ok. If they act up at some point I'll recommend going electronic. I've
got a nice little Kubota B7100DT, so I don't need no steenkin' ignition
on mine

I stuck to hydraulic pump back on the tractor today to see what the
symptoms are. There appears to be some fluid flow, and the lift will
track the position control lever very slowly as long as there isn't any
weight on them. If I stand on the lift arms they go back down, even with
the position control up. It would appear that the lift piston probably
needs new seals.

I pulled the pump back off and opened it up and it looks ok. The pistons
don't seem to have any notable scoring, the valve balls look good and
the valve seats look ok as well.

I pulled the line set off so I can clean them out, and I guess I'll be
pulling the lift cover so I can tear into that and also clean out the
hydraulic sump fully. I did drain the fluid after the test and it didn't
look bad, probably fairly recent. It will be replaced with UTF once I do
seals on the piston and anything else I find wrong.

Also, I can't seem to budge the test plug, which is going to make it
rather difficult to install a pressure gauge to see what pressure I'm
getting.

Thoughts?