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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? |
#2
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:21:05 -0700 (PDT), william wixon
wrote: hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? I've probably yanked 10,000 trees out over the years (apple orchard replacement) trees pull WAY easier first thing in spring. The force needs to be up. Pioneers put a large log in front of the stump and pulled with a team of horses with the chain going over the log. My system uses a tractor loader with the bucket removed. And a one foot or so diameter welded up shaft right where the bucket would pivot. Pull the chain tight by lifting the loader. Then roll the buck cylinders back (wrapping up chain around the shaft) to pull the stump. You've got 10X mechanical advantage here. Even with a couple tons weight on the tractor three point, you can lift the rear tires off the ground on a big stump. Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. Karl |
#3
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Aug 24, 12:21*pm, william wixon wrote:
hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. *i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. Still a reasonable amount of work but it can be done. I have removed a number of trees this way, but none as small as 8 inches in diameter. I used a string with a torpedo shaped weight to get the string over a high up branch. The reason for the torpedo shape is so the weight does not hang up in the branches when you want to pull it out and try again. On trees as small as 8 inch dia you could probably use an extension ladder to get a cable or chain around the tree near the top. Anyway get the string over a branch high on the tree, then use it to pull a light line, and finally a steel cable or chain. Anyway you get the cable around the tree as high as you can and then use a come-a-long to pull. With a fairly big tree say an alder or fir that is 20 to 24 inches in dia., you are going to have to take a good strain, and then start digging on the side away from where you are pulling. As you dig the tree will start to lean and you will need to tighten the line so it has the same amount of strain. On small trees you might not have to do any digging. Or if you have to it will not be much. If you can get a blasters permit where you live, I would recommend a cartridge of Tovex placed the best you can under the tree ( still on the side away from where you are pulling ) and tamped in. I have had no problems using electric caps set off by connecting them to 120 volts ac. Do not cut the tree down first and then try to pull the stump out. Dan |
#4
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
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#5
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
"william wixon" wrote in message ... hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? It all depends on the winch, the rigging, and the stump. If you compound your sling, you can improve leverage, and pull out stumps with an average size truck. If you pull straight on the truck, either the stump, the winch, or the truck will give. If you do have the luxury of a backhoe, and can cut roots, and loosen the root ball, that's the ideal. But it all comes down to leverage and rigging, and multiplying force by the number of sheaves, and whether or not the original point of attachment is a truck sliding on the tires on wet grass, or a 3/8" deadman chain slung around a 36" diameter oak. Hook it up, and pull. I guarontee within one minute, you will find your weak point, or the stump will come out. Learn how to multiply your force with multiple sheaves, and your answer lies there. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com billions of free books while they last! |
#6
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
william wixon wrote:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? I've done trees of that size before with a one ton engine crane. These were evergreens if it makes any difference, I think they tend to be shallow rooting. It wouldn't pull them out on its own but would lift the stump enough so you could tell where the next large root was holding on and dig down to cut that, then repeat. It didn't take long before you got the final crack and the stump lifted free. For the lifting I drilled a 1/2 inch hole through the top of the stump and put some steel bar through to attach the lifting rope. |
#7
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Aug 24, 11:21*am, william wixon wrote:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. *i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. *i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. *i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. *(i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. *i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). *i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. *the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? *or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? Get a big long crowbar. Decide which way you want the roots tipped out of the ground. Pound a hole on the other side. Pour in a couple pounds of bacon grease in the hole. Drizzle just a little bit on top of the stump. Check in the morning to see how far the bears got on their job. Repeat as needed. |
#8
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
David Billington wrote: william wixon wrote: hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3 or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're heavy. does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have experience with this? I've done trees of that size before with a one ton engine crane. These were evergreens if it makes any difference, I think they tend to be shallow rooting. It wouldn't pull them out on its own but would lift the stump enough so you could tell where the next large root was holding on and dig down to cut that, then repeat. It didn't take long before you got the final crack and the stump lifted free. For the lifting I drilled a 1/2 inch hole through the top of the stump and put some steel bar through to attach the lifting rope. I was thinking the same thing, but with a 2T engine hoist. I've not tried it with the engine hoist, but I have pulled out that size tree with a backhoe loader bucket (rated for 5,000# lift) and a chain with no issues. |
#9
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Aug 24, 1:57*pm, " wrote:
... I used a string with a torpedo shaped weight to get the string over a high up branch. *... Anyway get the string over a branch high on the tree, then use it to pull a light line, and finally a steel cable or chain. Anyway you get the cable around the tree as high as you can and then use a come-a-long to pull. ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Same here, pretty much. If the tree has spreading roots like red oaks, clear the ground on the far side of the stump. When you see a crack open above a root, dig down and chop it. Trees bend and rope stretches a long ways when the line is attached up high, further than the pull of the usual cable puller. I attach two lines at the lower end and use two pullers alternately. Instead of a second puller you can maintain your progress with a 2" cargo binding strap with a big D handle for leverage. jsw |
#10
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
For small trees, shrubs etc, I just pull them out with a rope attached
to my car's towbar. Jordan |
#11
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:21:05 -0700 (PDT), william wixon
wrote: hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. "Correct" spelling (by consensus) is "wench." - Usenet Head Office is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a easier alternative to a shovel. these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.) http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html I don't have any experience with what you propose, but you can buy an electric wench that size for about $300 and power it with a car battery. That's what I use to raise and lower my turbine tower. http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/11wind_power.htmor Better yet, use a pair of T105s, for a total of about $550 for wench and batteries. Wayne |
#12
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 07:46:30 +1000, Jordan wrote:
For small trees, shrubs etc, I just pull them out with a rope attached to my car's towbar. Comealong on my Tundra's hitch receiver. I've done up to an 8" holly stump that way. I dig down and cut the side roots, then yank with the comealong. I'll have to try a triangle of angle iron to do a vertical pull the next time, though. I have a $3 HF snatch block I could hang from it. -- Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary. -- Peter Minard |
#13
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
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#14
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
william wixon writes:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere who has actual experience with this. is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch? Yes. Back in the early 1960s my parents had a house built on a wooded lot near Seattle; my father soon learned he really hated both madrona trees and stumps left in the ground. He built a winch based around a 120V 1HP motor, a boat-load of gear reduction, and a home-made block-and-tackle arrangement with something like half a dozen pulleys at each end and what I remember as a 3/8 wire rope. The power switch was on about a twenty foot cord. He'd chain his winch very near to the bottom of the biggest tree he could find nearby and climb a ladder and chain the other end to the tree he wanted to remove, as high as he could reach. He'd then get as far out of the way as possible and hit the switch. The combination of gear reduction and pulleys was such that it was on the order of 10-15 minutes to pull a tree out. But he never encountered a tree he couldn't pull roots and all on our property, and many of them were one hell of a lot larger than 8 inches diameter. -- As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin) |
#15
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 23:40:54 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote: wrote: ... my turbine tower. http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/11wind_power.htmor ... Make that http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/11wind_power.htm Thanks, Wayne |
#16
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:
Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It might make a good youtube video. ;-) Good Luck! Rich |
#17
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:21:05 -0700, william wixon wrote:
i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. Have you looked into rental? Good Luck! Rich |
#18
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
Rich Grise fired this volley in
news I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It'll work. Let's say the stump weighs 150lb. About half that is carbon. Let's delete the moisture, and say 60lb. It takes 32/14 oxygen to burn carbon. So it'll take about 137lb of oxygen to burn 60lb of carbon (not counting losses and H20 from the hydrogen in cellulose). A more reasonable figure for burning wood would be 200lb oxygen per 150lb stump. There's about 13.38 pounds of oxygen per 150cu.ft. cylinder, so it'll take 15 full 150cu.ft. cylinders to burn a 150lb stump to the ground. Good luck! LLoyd |
#19
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:22:15 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote: Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It might make a good youtube video. ;-) Good Luck! Rich I'll never forget going to a NASA exhibit in about 1966. The guy dipped a cigarette in LOX. Then lit it up. It burned like a rocket engine |
#20
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
On Aug 27, 12:22*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote: Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It might make a good youtube video. ;-) Good Luck! Rich Use a solid form of oxygen. http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf612234.tip.html Karl |
#21
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
I'd expect the welding oxygen to really heat up the fire. Please let
us know how it works. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Rich Grise" wrote in message news On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote: Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It might make a good youtube video. ;-) Good Luck! Rich |
#22
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pulling OUT trees with a winch?
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... I'd expect the welding oxygen to really heat up the fire. Please let us know how it works. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "Rich Grise" wrote in message news On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:33:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote: Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill the holes with diesel and burn the stump out. I've always thought it would be fun to burn out a stump with oxygen - ordinary welding oxygen, with about 6' of 1/4" or so stainless steel tube; start a little fire on top of the stump, and blow O2 on it. Would that work? It might make a good youtube video. ;-) Good Luck! Rich Ah. Shades of "Barbecuing With Liquid Oxygen." Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com |
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