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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

pulling OUT trees with a winch?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 24th 10, 05:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?
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  #2  
Old August 24th 10, 06:33 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,245
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:21:05 -0700 (PDT), william wixon
wrote:

hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?


I've probably yanked 10,000 trees out over the years (apple orchard
replacement)

trees pull WAY easier first thing in spring.

The force needs to be up. Pioneers put a large log in front of the
stump and pulled with a team of horses with the chain going over the
log.

My system uses a tractor loader with the bucket removed. And a one
foot or so diameter welded up shaft right where the bucket would
pivot. Pull the chain tight by lifting the loader. Then roll the buck
cylinders back (wrapping up chain around the shaft) to pull the stump.
You've got 10X mechanical advantage here. Even with a couple tons
weight on the tractor three point, you can lift the rear tires off the
ground on a big stump.

Or, if you got time, drill say two inch holes in the stump and fill
with potassium nitrate fertilizer. They rot within a year. Then fill
the holes with diesel and burn the stump out.

Karl
  #3  
Old August 24th 10, 06:57 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,046
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

On Aug 24, 12:21*pm, william wixon wrote:
hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

*i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.


Still a reasonable amount of work but it can be done. I have removed
a number of trees this way, but none as small as 8 inches in diameter.

I used a string with a torpedo shaped weight to get the string over a
high up branch. The reason for the torpedo shape is so the weight
does not hang up in the branches when you want to pull it out and try
again. On trees as small as 8 inch dia you could probably use an
extension ladder to get a cable or chain around the tree near the top.
Anyway get the string over a branch high on the tree, then use it to
pull a light line, and finally a steel cable or chain.

Anyway you get the cable around the tree as high as you can and then
use a come-a-long to pull. With a fairly big tree say an alder or fir
that is 20 to 24 inches in dia., you are going to have to take a good
strain, and then start digging on the side away from where you are
pulling. As you dig the tree will start to lean and you will need to
tighten the line so it has the same amount of strain. On small trees
you might not have to do any digging. Or if you have to it will not
be much.

If you can get a blasters permit where you live, I would recommend a
cartridge of Tovex placed the best you can under the tree ( still on
the side away from where you are pulling ) and tamped in. I have had
no problems using electric caps set off by connecting them to 120
volts ac.

Do not cut the tree down first and then try to pull the stump out.

Dan

  #5  
Old August 24th 10, 07:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,060
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?


"william wixon" wrote in message
...
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?


It all depends on the winch, the rigging, and the stump.

If you compound your sling, you can improve leverage, and pull out stumps
with an average size truck.

If you pull straight on the truck, either the stump, the winch, or the truck
will give.

If you do have the luxury of a backhoe, and can cut roots, and loosen the
root ball, that's the ideal.

But it all comes down to leverage and rigging, and multiplying force by the
number of sheaves, and whether or not the original point of attachment is a
truck sliding on the tires on wet grass, or a 3/8" deadman chain slung
around a 36" diameter oak.

Hook it up, and pull. I guarontee within one minute, you will find your
weak point, or the stump will come out. Learn how to multiply your force
with multiple sheaves, and your answer lies there.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
billions of free books while they last!


  #6  
Old August 24th 10, 08:12 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 857
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

william wixon wrote:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?

I've done trees of that size before with a one ton engine crane. These
were evergreens if it makes any difference, I think they tend to be
shallow rooting. It wouldn't pull them out on its own but would lift the
stump enough so you could tell where the next large root was holding on
and dig down to cut that, then repeat. It didn't take long before you
got the final crack and the stump lifted free. For the lifting I drilled
a 1/2 inch hole through the top of the stump and put some steel bar
through to attach the lifting rope.
  #7  
Old August 24th 10, 08:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

On Aug 24, 11:21*am, william wixon wrote:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. *i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. *i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. *i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. *(i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. *i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). *i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. *the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? *or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?


Get a big long crowbar.
Decide which way you want the roots tipped out of the ground.
Pound a hole on the other side.
Pour in a couple pounds of bacon grease in the hole.
Drizzle just a little bit on top of the stump.

Check in the morning to see how far the bears got on their job.
Repeat as needed.
  #8  
Old August 24th 10, 08:40 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,757
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?


David Billington wrote:

william wixon wrote:
hey, this is a question i've had on my mind for a long time and have
been wanting to ask someone about it (but have been afraid to, worried
i'll be thought of as an idiot), hopefully there's someone somewhere
who has actual experience with this.

is it possible to pull small (6 or maybe even 8 inch diameter at the
base) trees OUT of the ground (roots and all) with a winch?

i don't have enough money to buy a backhoe. i've dug trees out by
hand before and that's a lot of time consuming hard work. i was
wondering if there might be a cheaper alternative to a backhoe and a
easier alternative to a shovel.

these guys make a gasoline powered 12000 pound winch. i'm wondering
if 12000 is enough. (i would imagine it is, though i don't want to
buy the damn thing adn find out it's NOT.)

http://www.winchesplus.com/winch-G120.html

here, my specific application is, i've got a swamp that's cluttered
with trees and shrubs, i'd like to yank 90% of the trees out of that
swamp and the areas that border the swamp. i've done this before (3
or 4 trees) with my compact farm tractor (24 horse) with a cable and
two pulleys and it worked, but it just BARELY worked, traction is a
problem (even carrying ballast). i have no idea how many pounds of
pull i was achieving on the cable using the tractor. the trees that
grow in the swamp have very shallow root systems and it's possible to
just kinda yank them off like the SURFACE of the ground, but they're
heavy.

does anyone here have any experience with this? or could you direct
me to some other discussion group where the guys there would have
experience with this?

I've done trees of that size before with a one ton engine crane. These
were evergreens if it makes any difference, I think they tend to be
shallow rooting. It wouldn't pull them out on its own but would lift the
stump enough so you could tell where the next large root was holding on
and dig down to cut that, then repeat. It didn't take long before you
got the final crack and the stump lifted free. For the lifting I drilled
a 1/2 inch hole through the top of the stump and put some steel bar
through to attach the lifting rope.


I was thinking the same thing, but with a 2T engine hoist. I've not
tried it with the engine hoist, but I have pulled out that size tree
with a backhoe loader bucket (rated for 5,000# lift) and a chain with no
issues.
  #9  
Old August 24th 10, 10:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,148
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

On Aug 24, 1:57*pm, " wrote:
...
I used a string with a torpedo shaped weight to get the string over a
high up branch. *...
Anyway get the string over a branch high on the tree, then use it to
pull a light line, and finally a steel cable or chain.

Anyway you get the cable around the tree as high as you can and then
use a come-a-long to pull. ...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan


Same here, pretty much.

If the tree has spreading roots like red oaks, clear the ground on the
far side of the stump. When you see a crack open above a root, dig
down and chop it.

Trees bend and rope stretches a long ways when the line is attached up
high, further than the pull of the usual cable puller. I attach two
lines at the lower end and use two pullers alternately. Instead of a
second puller you can maintain your progress with a 2" cargo binding
strap with a big D handle for leverage.

jsw
  #10  
Old August 24th 10, 10:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 58
Default pulling OUT trees with a winch?

For small trees, shrubs etc, I just pull them out with a rope attached
to my car's towbar.

Jordan

 




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