This is a continuation of the thread "Millrite MVI spindle bearings may need
replacement" first posted on 31 July 2010.

I now have the spindle out of the quill and the taper roller bearings off the
quill. I made (from a cast iron pipe fitting) a special pusher to avoid
crushing the grease slinger, and (lacking a press) used a piece of 1/2-13
allthread passed through the drawbar hole to generate the needed force.
Greasing the spindle just ahead of the sliding bearing race also helped.

The taper roller bearings are not in that bad condition, given that the grease
had turned into some kind of chalky cake. However, the absence of grease had
allowed coolant to enter and corrode the bearing "cup" (the outer race) of the
lower bearing assembly in a few places. I assume that the area weakened by
corrosion will soon fail. The rollers are not yet clean enough to tell if they
have been compromised, but one assumes that there has been damage.

It is not obvious how one would grease these bearings without removing spindle
from quill (which isn't that hard, but still). I have heard of people instead
using DTE24 or heavier hydraulic oil fed in through the plug in the side of the
quill, and letting it drip out of the bottom of the quill. This may be a better
approach. What experience do people have with this?

For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and thetwo
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken 19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too hard to
get exactly correct.

Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and thetwo
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken 19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too hard to
get exactly correct.

Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
..0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

--
Ned Simmons

On Aug 16, 8:55*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
This is a continuation of the thread "Millrite MVI spindle bearings may need
replacement" first posted on 31 July 2010.

I now have the spindle out of the quill and the taper roller bearings off the
quill. *I made (from a cast iron pipe fitting) a special pusher to avoid
crushing the grease slinger, and (lacking a press) used a piece of 1/2-13
allthread passed through the drawbar hole to generate the needed force. *
Greasing the spindle just ahead of the sliding bearing race also helped.

The taper roller bearings are not in that bad condition, given that the grease
had turned into some kind of chalky cake. *However, the absence of grease had
allowed coolant to enter and corrode the bearing "cup" (the outer race) of the
lower bearing assembly in a few places. *I assume that the area weakened by
corrosion will soon fail. *The rollers are not yet clean enough to tell if they
have been compromised, but one assumes that there has been damage.

It is not obvious how one would grease these bearings without removing spindle
from quill (which isn't that hard, but still). *I have heard of people instead
using DTE24 or heavier hydraulic oil fed in through the plug in the side of the
quill, and letting it drip out of the bottom of the quill. *This may be a better
approach. *What experience do people have with this?

For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and thetwo *
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken 19150. *
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000". *

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too hard to
get exactly correct. *

Is there a standard solution? *I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. *Has anyone done this?

Joe Gwinn

There are people probably a lot more knowledgeable on this subject,
but here’s my two cents. When you’re pressing the bearing into place,
you’re putting the load on the outer race. When you tighten the ring
nut, it preloads the inner race and rollers. The force used getting
the bearing set in the bottom of bushing shouldn’t come into play.
(If the bushing was too tight, I suppose that you might crack the
bushing or outer bearing race.)

I’ve put in a grease-fitting in the rod end of an old Keller power
hacksaw that I’ve refurbished and it seems to have worked well. I
think that my repair will make it last much longer, but what you
probably have to guess is the level of stresses in the area supporting
the bearing. If you drill there to put an oil cup or grease fitting,
you could possibly cause a stress riser. If the bearing support is
low-stressed, you’re probably safe to drill & tap it to add a
lubrication fitting.

In article ,
"Denis G." wrote:

On Aug 16, 8:55*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
This is a continuation of the thread "Millrite MVI spindle bearings may
need
replacement" first posted on 31 July 2010.

I now have the spindle out of the quill and the taper roller bearings off
the
quill. *I made (from a cast iron pipe fitting) a special pusher to avoid
crushing the grease slinger, and (lacking a press) used a piece of 1/2-13
allthread passed through the drawbar hole to generate the needed force. *
Greasing the spindle just ahead of the sliding bearing race also helped.

The taper roller bearings are not in that bad condition, given that the
grease
had turned into some kind of chalky cake. *However, the absence of grease
had
allowed coolant to enter and corrode the bearing "cup" (the outer race) of
the
lower bearing assembly in a few places. *I assume that the area weakened by
corrosion will soon fail. *The rollers are not yet clean enough to tell if
they
have been compromised, but one assumes that there has been damage.

It is not obvious how one would grease these bearings without removing
spindle
from quill (which isn't that hard, but still). *I have heard of people
instead
using DTE24 or heavier hydraulic oil fed in through the plug in the side of
the
quill, and letting it drip out of the bottom of the quill. *This may be a
better
approach. *What experience do people have with this?

For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
thetwo *
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken
19150. *
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000". *

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was
a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too
hard to
get exactly correct. *

Is there a standard solution? *I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. *Has anyone done this?

Joe Gwinn

There are people probably a lot more knowledgeable on this subject,
but here¹s my two cents. When you¹re pressing the bearing into place,
you¹re putting the load on the outer race. When you tighten the ring
nut, it preloads the inner race and rollers. The force used getting
the bearing set in the bottom of bushing shouldn¹t come into play.
(If the bushing was too tight, I suppose that you might crack the
bushing or outer bearing race.)

Yep.


I¹ve put in a grease-fitting in the rod end of an old Keller power
hacksaw that I¹ve refurbished and it seems to have worked well. I
think that my repair will make it last much longer, but what you
probably have to guess is the level of stresses in the area supporting
the bearing. If you drill there to put an oil cup or grease fitting,
you could possibly cause a stress riser. If the bearing support is
low-stressed, you¹re probably safe to drill & tap it to add a
lubrication fitting.


D.C.Morrison says that if one just puts the grease in at the quill side port, it
will work itself into the roller bearings (which are open). No harm in trying.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
thetwo
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken
19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too hard
to get exactly correct.

Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
.0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

D.C.Morrison says that the bearings should be a "tap fit" on the spindle, not a
press fit, and endorsed my plan to polish the quill down a bit to achieve a tap
fit.


Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

What class is needed for a MVI anyway?


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than ball
bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
thetwo
assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each Timken
19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too hard
to get exactly correct.

Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
.0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

D.C.Morrison says that the bearings should be a "tap fit" on the spindle, not a
press fit, and endorsed my plan to polish the quill down a bit to achieve a tap
fit.

I dunno who DC Morrison is so can't decide whether their opinion
should carry more weight than that of Timken's engineers in this case.
"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.



Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.



BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than ball
bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

--
Ned Simmons

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
the two assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each
Timken 19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too
hard to get exactly correct.

By the way, the interference may be half that. I found the the zero of the
micrometer (B&S 84) I am using is off by about 0.0005". This will be fixed over
the weekend.


Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
.0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

D.C.Morrison says that the bearings should be a "tap fit" on the spindle, not a
press fit, and endorsed my plan to polish the quill down a bit to achieve a
tap fit.

I dunno who DC Morrison is so can't decide whether their opinion
should carry more weight than that of Timken's engineers in this case.

DC Morrison is the company that supports Millrites, having bought the wreakage
of Burke. http://www.dcmorrison.com/ You must call for Millrite manuals and
parts.

The issue is to ensure that the preload can be set accurately enough. This is
impossible if the bearing closest to the preload ring nut cannot move because
it's too tight a press fit.

Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce runout?


"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.

This may be what is happening. And things may have corroded and so grown a bit
over the years. I think I'll do most of the polishing on the bearing ID, rather
than the shaft OD, although I'll clean corrosion off the shaft.


Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

Which class is a "standard bearing"? I'd guess 4, for wheel bearings.

What are "airplane bearings", like from skygeek.com? They are priced at the $45
level for the cup and another $45 for the cone et al.

What is a typical price for Class 3 set of one 19268 and one 19150?


What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the Millrite
spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than ball
bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

All true, and Burke apparently valued robust more than Bridgeport. Perhaps the
intended audiences were different. Not that I've heard of Bridgeport spindles
being so fragile. But I don't know why Burke didn't provide more protection
against the entry of dirt and coolants.

Joe Gwinn

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:02:45 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
the two assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each
Timken 19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too
hard to get exactly correct.

By the way, the interference may be half that. I found the the zero of the
micrometer (B&S 84) I am using is off by about 0.0005". This will be fixed over
the weekend.


Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
.0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

D.C.Morrison says that the bearings should be a "tap fit" on the spindle, not a
press fit, and endorsed my plan to polish the quill down a bit to achieve a
tap fit.

I dunno who DC Morrison is so can't decide whether their opinion
should carry more weight than that of Timken's engineers in this case.

DC Morrison is the company that supports Millrites, having bought the wreakage
of Burke. http://www.dcmorrison.com/ You must call for Millrite manuals and
parts.

The issue is to ensure that the preload can be set accurately enough. This is
impossible if the bearing closest to the preload ring nut cannot move because
it's too tight a press fit.

That's one of the complications of tapered rollers. Angular contact
bearings can use equal length ID and OD spacers to control preload,
and the same spacers will work with a new bearing pair. Not so with
roller bearings.


Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce runout?

Not that I see in the literature I have, but "Timken Bearings for
Machine Tools" is mentioned in the section on precision bearings, and
may have more info if you can find a copy online.


"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.

This may be what is happening. And things may have corroded and so grown a bit
over the years. I think I'll do most of the polishing on the bearing ID, rather
than the shaft OD, although I'll clean corrosion off the shaft.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to cautiously remove any corrosion or
high spots you find.



Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

Which class is a "standard bearing"? I'd guess 4, for wheel bearings.

Yes.


What are "airplane bearings", like from skygeek.com? They are priced at the $45
level for the cup and another $45 for the cone et al.


I don't know what "airplane bearings" are, but Motion Industries also
references "aircraft bearings" in their database, with no indication
of what distinguishes them from standard bearings. But they are listed
as "standard precision."

What is a typical price for Class 3 set of one 19268 and one 19150?

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the Millrite
spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than ball
bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

All true, and Burke apparently valued robust more than Bridgeport. Perhaps the
intended audiences were different. Not that I've heard of Bridgeport spindles
being so fragile. But I don't know why Burke didn't provide more protection
against the entry of dirt and coolants.

BP spindles are not especially well protected, either. The nose pair
is protected only by a labyrinth formed by close clearances between
the various parts of the spindle and quill. Indiscriminate use of air
to clear chips can force crud up into the bearings.

--
Ned Simmons

On 8/18/2010 10:51 AM, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:02:45 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In ,
Ned wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In ,
Ned wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:



For the record, the two outer races ("cups") are each Timken 19268; and
the two assemblies of inner races ("cones"), rollers, and cages are each
Timken 19150.
The stated ID of a 19150 cone is 1.5000".

The quill shaft is about 0.0011" larger than the stated cone ID, so it was a
light press fit. As others have noted , this cripples the running preload
adjustment by turning a ring nut on the spindle, and press fits are too
hard to get exactly correct.

By the way, the interference may be half that. I found the the zero of the
micrometer (B&S 84) I am using is off by about 0.0005". This will be fixed over
the weekend.


Is there a standard solution? I'm tempted to polish the spindle shaft down
until the (new?) bearings are a (hand) push fit. Has anyone done this?

That's near the high end of the recommended shaft diameter, which is
.0007 to .0012 (+18 to +30 microns) over nominal. The ID of a class 0
precision cone is nominal +13/+0 microns, with a resulting 5 to 30
micron interference. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the bearing
seats. Even if you can maintain cylindricity, you're risking fretting
of the seat if the fit is not tight enough.

D.C.Morrison says that the bearings should be a "tap fit" on the spindle, not a
press fit, and endorsed my plan to polish the quill down a bit to achieve a
tap fit.

I dunno who DC Morrison is so can't decide whether their opinion
should carry more weight than that of Timken's engineers in this case.

DC Morrison is the company that supports Millrites, having bought the wreakage
of Burke.http://www.dcmorrison.com/ You must call for Millrite manuals and
parts.

The issue is to ensure that the preload can be set accurately enough. This is
impossible if the bearing closest to the preload ring nut cannot move because
it's too tight a press fit.

That's one of the complications of tapered rollers. Angular contact
bearings can use equal length ID and OD spacers to control preload,
and the same spacers will work with a new bearing pair. Not so with
roller bearings.


Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce runout?

Not that I see in the literature I have, but "Timken Bearings for
Machine Tools" is mentioned in the section on precision bearings, and
may have more info if you can find a copy online.


"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.

This may be what is happening. And things may have corroded and so grown a bit
over the years. I think I'll do most of the polishing on the bearing ID, rather
than the shaft OD, although I'll clean corrosion off the shaft.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to cautiously remove any corrosion or
high spots you find.



Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

Which class is a "standard bearing"? I'd guess 4, for wheel bearings.

Yes.


What are "airplane bearings", like from skygeek.com? They are priced at the $45
level for the cup and another $45 for the cone et al.


I don't know what "airplane bearings" are, but Motion Industries also
references "aircraft bearings" in their database, with no indication
of what distinguishes them from standard bearings. But they are listed
as "standard precision."

Generally means that they've jumped through the hoops to get the part
FAA approved for repairs of certificated aircraft.

What is a typical price for Class 3 set of one 19268 and one 19150?

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the Millrite
spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than ball
bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

All true, and Burke apparently valued robust more than Bridgeport. Perhaps the
intended audiences were different. Not that I've heard of Bridgeport spindles
being so fragile. But I don't know why Burke didn't provide more protection
against the entry of dirt and coolants.

BP spindles are not especially well protected, either. The nose pair
is protected only by a labyrinth formed by close clearances between
the various parts of the spindle and quill. Indiscriminate use of air
to clear chips can force crud up into the bearings.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:24:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



Guys..when pricing bearings....a hint and an offer Ive made before...

Contact Alpine Bearing and Thompson Industrial Bearing

Tell them you are with Rapid Turn..and ask for pricing. If they ask
about John..tell them he is doing fine.

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Period.

You will get FAR better pricing quotes than a cold call to Motion
Industries.

We do this with GREAT regularlity for our customers and its quite
common.

As long as they have a name with regular bearing sales..they give 3rd
column pricing..and the differences in pricing is often staggering.

http://www.alpinebearing.com/

http://www.tismc.com/


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:02:45 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


[snip]

The issue is to ensure that the preload can be set accurately enough. This
is impossible if the bearing closest to the preload ring nut cannot move
because it's too tight a press fit.

That's one of the complications of tapered rollers. Angular contact
bearings can use equal length ID and OD spacers to control preload,
and the same spacers will work with a new bearing pair. Not so with
roller bearings.

So the tap fit is the compromise.


Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce runout?

Not that I see in the literature I have, but "Timken Bearings for
Machine Tools" is mentioned in the section on precision bearings, and
may have more info if you can find a copy online.

I'm not finding anything by this name; perhaps this was an earlier version
and/or name.

What I did find is "Timken Super Precision Bearings for Machine Tool
Applications", file "5918_09-09-29.pdf", 259 pages. The pages are all marked
"TIMKEN MACHINE TOOL CATALOG" at the bottom. This is a very useful document,
from the look of it.

On page 100, they start to talk about aligning the high spots in exactly the
same terms as I have been hearing, and later there is a picture showing what the
high-spot marks look like. I found such marks on the bearings in my mill.
Well, I'm short one mark (on a cup), which mark seems to have been abraded off.


"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.

This may be what is happening. And things may have corroded and so grown a
bit over the years. I think I'll do most of the polishing on the bearing ID,
rather than the shaft OD, although I'll clean corrosion off the shaft.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to cautiously remove any corrosion or
high spots you find.

Yes. This weekend.


Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

Which class is a "standard bearing"? I'd guess 4, for wheel bearings.

Yes.


What are "airplane bearings", like from skygeek.com? They are priced at the
$45 level for the cup and another $45 for the cone et al.


I don't know what "airplane bearings" are, but Motion Industries also
references "aircraft bearings" in their database, with no indication
of what distinguishes them from standard bearings. But they are listed
as "standard precision."

Another poster (J.Clarke) said that it meant only that the maker had jumped the
hoops to become FAA certified for airplane repair.


What is a typical price for Class 3 set of one 19268 and one 19150?

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.

Oof. That's a total of 2(125+68)= 386= $400. I was leaning towards letting it
be for now, and this is pushing me that direction. There is only one corroded
spot, about 0.25" in diameter.


What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the Millrite
spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball
bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than
ball bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

All true, and Burke apparently valued robust more than Bridgeport. Perhaps
the intended audiences were different. Not that I've heard of Bridgeport
spindles
being so fragile. But I don't know why Burke didn't provide more protection
against the entry of dirt and coolants.

BP spindles are not especially well protected, either. The nose pair
is protected only by a labyrinth formed by close clearances between
the various parts of the spindle and quill.

The Millrite also has a labyrinth of sorts, being three ~square cross section
grooves in the quill nut through which the spindle nose protrudes. It's a tight
fit. Sounds like the BP approach. The grooves were packed full of crud, now
removed.


Indiscriminate use of air
to clear chips can force crud up into the bearings.

Yet another reason for the tradition to forbid use of compressed air on machine
tools.


Joe Gwinn

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:27:22 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:02:45 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


[snip]

The issue is to ensure that the preload can be set accurately enough. This
is impossible if the bearing closest to the preload ring nut cannot move
because it's too tight a press fit.

That's one of the complications of tapered rollers. Angular contact
bearings can use equal length ID and OD spacers to control preload,
and the same spacers will work with a new bearing pair. Not so with
roller bearings.

So the tap fit is the compromise.


Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce runout?

Not that I see in the literature I have, but "Timken Bearings for
Machine Tools" is mentioned in the section on precision bearings, and
may have more info if you can find a copy online.

I'm not finding anything by this name; perhaps this was an earlier version
and/or name.

What I did find is "Timken Super Precision Bearings for Machine Tool
Applications", file "5918_09-09-29.pdf", 259 pages. The pages are all marked
"TIMKEN MACHINE TOOL CATALOG" at the bottom. This is a very useful document,
from the look of it.

On page 100, they start to talk about aligning the high spots in exactly the
same terms as I have been hearing, and later there is a picture showing what the
high-spot marks look like. I found such marks on the bearings in my mill.
Well, I'm short one mark (on a cup), which mark seems to have been abraded off.


"Tap fit" is a rather subjective way to characterize a bearing fit,
depending on who's doing the tapping and the size of the tapper, but I
assume it means a transitional fit with minimal interference. The ID
of your cones can vary by 5 tenths, so a tap fit on one bearing may
result in excessive clearance on another.

This may be what is happening. And things may have corroded and so grown a
bit over the years. I think I'll do most of the polishing on the bearing ID,
rather than the shaft OD, although I'll clean corrosion off the shaft.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to cautiously remove any corrosion or
high spots you find.

Yes. This weekend.


Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone ass'y
in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

Which class is a "standard bearing"? I'd guess 4, for wheel bearings.

Yes.


What are "airplane bearings", like from skygeek.com? They are priced at the
$45 level for the cup and another $45 for the cone et al.


I don't know what "airplane bearings" are, but Motion Industries also
references "aircraft bearings" in their database, with no indication
of what distinguishes them from standard bearings. But they are listed
as "standard precision."

Another poster (J.Clarke) said that it meant only that the maker had jumped the
hoops to become FAA certified for airplane repair.


What is a typical price for Class 3 set of one 19268 and one 19150?

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.

Oof. That's a total of 2(125+68)= 386= $400. I was leaning towards letting it
be for now, and this is pushing me that direction. There is only one corroded
spot, about 0.25" in diameter.


What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the Millrite
spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.


BTW, the first thousand or so J-head Bridgeports used tapered rollers
on the spindle; the subsequent couple hundred thousand have angular
contact bearings.

Burke used taper roller bearings for the standard R8 spindle, and ball
bearings
for the high-speed spindle. Taper roller bearings are more robust than
ball bearings under shock loads (like interrupted cuts).

True, but BP spindle bearings will take a lot of abuse if they're
lubricated properly and kept clean. Tapered rollers will carry a
substantially heavier load than angular contact bearings in a given
volume. But there are tradeoffs, such as added complexity, expense,
and less tolerance of contamination.

All true, and Burke apparently valued robust more than Bridgeport. Perhaps
the intended audiences were different. Not that I've heard of Bridgeport
spindles
being so fragile. But I don't know why Burke didn't provide more protection
against the entry of dirt and coolants.

BP spindles are not especially well protected, either. The nose pair
is protected only by a labyrinth formed by close clearances between
the various parts of the spindle and quill.

The Millrite also has a labyrinth of sorts, being three ~square cross section
grooves in the quill nut through which the spindle nose protrudes. It's a tight
fit. Sounds like the BP approach. The grooves were packed full of crud, now
removed.


Indiscriminate use of air
to clear chips can force crud up into the bearings.

Yet another reason for the tradition to forbid use of compressed air on machine
tools.


Joe Gwinn


As an interested onlooker. How much of the TIR is eccentricity
and how much is "out of round".

For instance. If we fitted class 2 set of bearings and then
finish ground the spindle nose and bore in situ, would we have a
class 00 sytem?

Jim

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:27:22 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:02:45 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:28:56 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:55:27 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


[snip]

Does Timken mention alignment of high spots and low spots to reduce
runout?

Not that I see in the literature I have, but "Timken Bearings for
Machine Tools" is mentioned in the section on precision bearings, and
may have more info if you can find a copy online.

I'm not finding anything by this name; perhaps this was an earlier version
and/or name.

What I did find is "Timken Super Precision Bearings for Machine Tool
Applications", file "5918_09-09-29.pdf", 259 pages. The pages are all
marked
"TIMKEN MACHINE TOOL CATALOG" at the bottom. This is a very useful
document,
from the look of it.

On page 100, they start to talk about aligning the high spots in exactly the
same terms as I have been hearing, and later there is a picture showing what
the high-spot marks look like. I found such marks on the bearings in my mill.
Well, I'm short one mark (on a cup), which mark seems to have been abraded
off.

[snip]

Be aware that the specs on standard tapered rollers are very loose
compared to inexpensive ball bearings, and precision class bearings
are quite expensive. Expect to pay around $270 for each cup/cone
ass'y in class 0 vs. $45 for a standard bearing.

[snip]

What class is needed for a MVI anyway?

Class TIR
4 .0020
2 .0015
3 .0003
0 .00015
00 .000075

The runout of Class 0 roller bearings is approximately the same as the
ABEC 7 angular contact bearings typically found in machine tool
spindles.

DC Morrison says that Timken Class 3 are what was specified for the
Millrite spindle, and the existing bearings are in fact marked 3.

[snip]


Joe Gwinn


As an interested onlooker. How much of the TIR is eccentricity
and how much is "out of round".

I have no way to measure out of round better than measuring the spindle diameter
in various places around the circle, and I get the same answer all around.

The spindle appears to have been ground. What I had thought were are
longitudinal ripples from some kind of chatter in the grinder upon cleaning,
polishing, and inspection with a 10x magnifier are scratches, apparently from
dirt caught between spindle and cup when the cups were pulled off the spindle.
Given the design, it was difficult to clean this area before disassembly, a
Catch-22.

The inside of the quill is bored, and so is likely quite round.


For instance. If we fitted class 2 set of bearings and then
finish ground the spindle nose and bore in situ, would we have a
class 00 sytem?

If the two bearing cones (or cups respectively) can be depended on not to rotate
with respect to one another over time, it could work I would think.

The cones (inner races) are too tight on the spindle shaft to rotate unless a
bearing completely jams. Even then, a more likely outcome is rollers skidding.
In any event, a repair must immediately follow.

Both cup (outer race) faces are scuffed, apparently by the spacer tube, but the
cup OD cylinder surfaces show no signs of having rotated in the quill. So, the
cups may stay put well enough. The movement of the spacer tube may indicate
that the preload wasn't quite enough.

At least at low rotation rates, where the resulting slight imbalance is without
effect. Given the maximum of ~3000 rpm for a Millrite spindle, I would doubt
that a little spindle imbalance would be noticed. After all, we are likely
talking about a few times 0.0001" of decentering, which we probably already have.

Joe Gwinn

Gunner Asch wrote:

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Just stay away from 'Acme' brand bearings and anvils ;-)

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:52:45 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:24:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



Guys..when pricing bearings....a hint and an offer Ive made before...

Contact Alpine Bearing and Thompson Industrial Bearing

Tell them you are with Rapid Turn..and ask for pricing. If they ask
about John..tell them he is doing fine.

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Period.

You will get FAR better pricing quotes than a cold call to Motion
Industries.

We do this with GREAT regularlity for our customers and its quite
common.

As long as they have a name with regular bearing sales..they give 3rd
column pricing..and the differences in pricing is often staggering.

http://www.alpinebearing.com/

http://www.tismc.com/

I've had an OEM account with MI for about 25 years, since the ME
branches were a family owned business. I'll bet the prices I gave are
pretty close to the best you can do in small quantities, but a thrifty
man will shop around.

For curiosity's sake, I sent an RFQ on the bearings to Thompson
Industrial last Wed. They didn't reply.

--
Ned Simmons

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:47:16 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:52:45 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:24:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



Guys..when pricing bearings....a hint and an offer Ive made before...

Contact Alpine Bearing and Thompson Industrial Bearing

Tell them you are with Rapid Turn..and ask for pricing. If they ask
about John..tell them he is doing fine.

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Period.

You will get FAR better pricing quotes than a cold call to Motion
Industries.

We do this with GREAT regularlity for our customers and its quite
common.

As long as they have a name with regular bearing sales..they give 3rd
column pricing..and the differences in pricing is often staggering.

http://www.alpinebearing.com/

http://www.tismc.com/

I've had an OEM account with MI for about 25 years, since the ME
branches were a family owned business. I'll bet the prices I gave are
pretty close to the best you can do in small quantities, but a thrifty
man will shop around.

For curiosity's sake, I sent an RFQ on the bearings to Thompson
Industrial last Wed. They didn't reply.


As I have STATED repeatedly to the Group, time after time after ****ing
time...dont email, dont send pigeons, dont send UPS, .....CALL THE
PEOPLE for ****s sake.

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.

The people I do business with, behind the counter..are NOT the people
that answer the ****ing emails. Thats some dweeb in some back orfice
someplace..when he/she/it gets around to it. The companies that
actually DO answer their emails in a timely fashion..or at all..are the
rare ones.

Blink...blink....guys..I do this **** for a living..so I know how the
game works. And sending an RFQ for one or two items simply catch their
attention.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:47:16 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:52:45 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:24:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



Guys..when pricing bearings....a hint and an offer Ive made before...

Contact Alpine Bearing and Thompson Industrial Bearing

Tell them you are with Rapid Turn..and ask for pricing. If they ask
about John..tell them he is doing fine.

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Period.

You will get FAR better pricing quotes than a cold call to Motion
Industries.

We do this with GREAT regularlity for our customers and its quite
common.

As long as they have a name with regular bearing sales..they give 3rd
column pricing..and the differences in pricing is often staggering.

http://www.alpinebearing.com/

http://www.tismc.com/

I've had an OEM account with MI for about 25 years, since the ME
branches were a family owned business. I'll bet the prices I gave are
pretty close to the best you can do in small quantities, but a thrifty
man will shop around.

For curiosity's sake, I sent an RFQ on the bearings to Thompson
Industrial last Wed. They didn't reply.


As I have STATED repeatedly to the Group, time after time after ****ing
time...dont email, dont send pigeons, dont send UPS, .....CALL THE
PEOPLE for ****s sake.

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.

The people I do business with, behind the counter..are NOT the people
that answer the ****ing emails. Thats some dweeb in some back orfice
someplace..when he/she/it gets around to it. The companies that
actually DO answer their emails in a timely fashion..or at all..are the
rare ones.

Blink...blink....guys..I do this **** for a living..so I know how the
game works. And sending an RFQ for one or two items simply catch their
attention.

The RFQ I sent would come to over $500 if anybody bothered to look at
it.

If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me. A typical PO of mine to Motion
Industries may have upwards of 20 line items. Some of those lines will
be made-to-order items with 40+ character part numbers. Calling in
that kind of of order is error prone and makes absolutely no sense.
When I send an RFQ to MI the quote is prepared by the same guys I get
if I call, not "some dweeb in some back orfice."

--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:47:16 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:52:45 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:24:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Looks like about $125 for the cone and $68 for the cup. Those are my
approx prices from Motion Industries.



Guys..when pricing bearings....a hint and an offer Ive made before...

Contact Alpine Bearing and Thompson Industrial Bearing

Tell them you are with Rapid Turn..and ask for pricing. If they ask
about John..tell them he is doing fine.

If you prefer, when calling Thompson...tell them you are with Coyote
Engineering, (my company) and get a price.


Period.

You will get FAR better pricing quotes than a cold call to Motion
Industries.

We do this with GREAT regularlity for our customers and its quite
common.

As long as they have a name with regular bearing sales..they give 3rd
column pricing..and the differences in pricing is often staggering.

http://www.alpinebearing.com/

http://www.tismc.com/

I've had an OEM account with MI for about 25 years, since the ME
branches were a family owned business. I'll bet the prices I gave are
pretty close to the best you can do in small quantities, but a thrifty
man will shop around.

For curiosity's sake, I sent an RFQ on the bearings to Thompson
Industrial last Wed. They didn't reply.


As I have STATED repeatedly to the Group, time after time after ****ing
time...dont email, dont send pigeons, dont send UPS, .....CALL THE
PEOPLE for ****s sake.

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.

The people I do business with, behind the counter..are NOT the people
that answer the ****ing emails. Thats some dweeb in some back orfice
someplace..when he/she/it gets around to it. The companies that
actually DO answer their emails in a timely fashion..or at all..are the
rare ones.

Blink...blink....guys..I do this **** for a living..so I know how the
game works. And sending an RFQ for one or two items simply catch their
attention.

The RFQ I sent would come to over $500 if anybody bothered to look at
it.

If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me. A typical PO of mine to Motion
Industries may have upwards of 20 line items. Some of those lines will
be made-to-order items with 40+ character part numbers. Calling in
that kind of of order is error prone and makes absolutely no sense.
When I send an RFQ to MI the quote is prepared by the same guys I get
if I call, not "some dweeb in some back orfice."

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Fascinating

So be it.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.



If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me.

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Unless you have a vendor within walking distance, "face to face"
implies driving around. Or do you take the bus?

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.



If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me.

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Unless you have a vendor within walking distance, "face to face"
implies driving around. Or do you take the bus?

So there is some reason the first option..the voice to voice one is a
non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid
as well?

If you want to fight about something..pick something else you may have
some ability to keep up with.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.



If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me.

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Unless you have a vendor within walking distance, "face to face"
implies driving around. Or do you take the bus?

So there is some reason the first option..the voice to voice one is a
non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

I gave you my reason a couple days ago, if you bothered to read it.
Don't bother going back, I'll make it easy.

"A typical PO of mine to Motion Industries may have upwards of 20 line
items. Some of those lines will be made-to-order items with 40+
character part numbers. Calling in that kind of of order is error
prone and makes absolutely no sense."


Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid
as well?

I've been successfully running small engineering design and
manufacturing businesses for 30 years. On the other hand, you spend
your time blaming your predicament on the government, your family,
liberals, and anyone else to hand. While you've been running up debts,
I've been paying my bills, maxing my retirement, and paying college
tuition for my son.

Foolish or stupid would be me changing my business practices based on
your advice.


If you want to fight about something..pick something else you may have
some ability to keep up with.

Yeah, right.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.



If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me.

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Unless you have a vendor within walking distance, "face to face"
implies driving around. Or do you take the bus?

So there is some reason the first option..the voice to voice one is a
non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

I gave you my reason a couple days ago, if you bothered to read it.
Don't bother going back, I'll make it easy.

"A typical PO of mine to Motion Industries may have upwards of 20 line
items. Some of those lines will be made-to-order items with 40+
character part numbers. Calling in that kind of of order is error
prone and makes absolutely no sense."


Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid
as well?

I've been successfully running small engineering design and
manufacturing businesses for 30 years. On the other hand, you spend
your time blaming your predicament on the government, your family,
liberals, and anyone else to hand. While you've been running up debts,
I've been paying my bills, maxing my retirement, and paying college
tuition for my son.

Good for you Ted! Though I'd appreciate some cites on your claims I
blame "my prediciment" on "the government, my family, liberals and
"anyone else at hand"

As for my running up debts...I obviously planned on that medical issue,
didnt I? I waited for the worst possible time...planned for years,
waited for the economy to go right into the ****ter..and then plugged up
my arteries and drove myself to the hospital...just so I could take some
medical expenses away from your valued and cherished hordes of illegal
aliens. All planned!! Buwahahaha!! Planned and executed perfectly!

And I got into treatment ahead of a waiting room filled with non english
speakers here illegally with runny noses!!! Yesss!!!

Turd..you are an idiot. Yes..you display some competence in business.
Bravo! But frankly..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects
that Im aghast at your surviving for as long as you have. I believe the
term is Idiot Savant?

And on top of everything else..you are a hypocritical Leftwinger. You
run your own business for 30 yrs..without the People all having a piece
of it! So you cant even follow your own world view...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

Now back to the debt thingy Nut....what else do I own money on? Be
specific. Medical bills and property taxes (which Im catching up on
btw). Can you add any other debt issues I may have overlooked? The
house is paid for, all my vehicles are paid for, all my tvs, appliences,
furniture, toys and machinery are paid for. Ive not owned a credit card
for 20 yrs..by choice. I dont even owe my ex wife a dime.

So Teddly...what "prediciment" am I in? Other than being a 56 yr old
machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry? Be specific, use as much whitespace as
you find appropriate.

You do know that Social Security actually came to me and asked me if I
wanted to go on the SS roles, right? That pesky Stroke I planned after
the heart issue (and THAT took some real timing let me tell you!!) put
me right into the willing arms of the SS crowd...100% disability from
what they told me. They came right into my room at the hospital and
brought in the papers for me to sign and get medical disability!!

The little gal was a bit put out when I laughed at her and told her to
save it for someone who actually needed it..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.

So I guess I planned everything for naught, didnt I?

Eat **** Neddy. You know you really want to.

I just hope that those minding the List..dont take you as an
unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave if I ever get
to your neighborhood. Peoples Republik of Santa Monica, isnt it?

Now was there anything else you wish to spew about? If not..Ive got
planning to do for the next Big Welfare intitilement that Im going to
nail California on. After all..better me than a family of wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!


Foolish or stupid would be me changing my business practices based on
your advice.


If you want to fight about something..pick something else you may have
some ability to keep up with.

Yeah, right.

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.

Now for the rest of you guys who send emails instead of calling...do as
you choose. Ted may have some things that will attract the attention of
those buffoons reading emails that you dont. Other than buffoonery of
course. He is a "regular customer". He might even get a response.

Im curious though..how many of you who have sent off emailed
questions..have gotten a reply as of yet?

Please, let us know. Prove me wrong!! I implor!! I beg you!!

Gunner, who gets a response EVERY time he calls.





I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.



If driving around to vendors and phoning in orders works for you
that's great, it doesn't for me.

Using the phone is "driving around"?

Unless you have a vendor within walking distance, "face to face"
implies driving around. Or do you take the bus?

So there is some reason the first option..the voice to voice one is a
non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

I gave you my reason a couple days ago, if you bothered to read it.
Don't bother going back, I'll make it easy.

"A typical PO of mine to Motion Industries may have upwards of 20 line
items. Some of those lines will be made-to-order items with 40+
character part numbers. Calling in that kind of of order is error
prone and makes absolutely no sense."


Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid
as well?

I've been successfully running small engineering design and
manufacturing businesses for 30 years. On the other hand, you spend
your time blaming your predicament on the government, your family,
liberals, and anyone else to hand. While you've been running up debts,
I've been paying my bills, maxing my retirement, and paying college
tuition for my son.

Good for you Ted! Though I'd appreciate some cites on your claims I
blame "my prediciment" on "the government, my family, liberals and
"anyone else at hand"

As for my running up debts...I obviously planned on that medical issue,
didnt I? I waited for the worst possible time...planned for years,
waited for the economy to go right into the ****ter..and then plugged up
my arteries and drove myself to the hospital...just so I could take some
medical expenses away from your valued and cherished hordes of illegal
aliens. All planned!! Buwahahaha!! Planned and executed perfectly!

And I got into treatment ahead of a waiting room filled with non english
speakers here illegally with runny noses!!! Yesss!!!

Turd..you are an idiot. Yes..you display some competence in business.
Bravo! But frankly..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects
that Im aghast at your surviving for as long as you have. I believe the
term is Idiot Savant?

And on top of everything else..you are a hypocritical Leftwinger. You
run your own business for 30 yrs..without the People all having a piece
of it! So you cant even follow your own world view...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

Now back to the debt thingy Nut....what else do I own money on? Be
specific. Medical bills and property taxes (which Im catching up on
btw). Can you add any other debt issues I may have overlooked? The
house is paid for, all my vehicles are paid for, all my tvs, appliences,
furniture, toys and machinery are paid for. Ive not owned a credit card
for 20 yrs..by choice. I dont even owe my ex wife a dime.

So Teddly...what "prediciment" am I in? Other than being a 56 yr old
machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry? Be specific, use as much whitespace as
you find appropriate.

You do know that Social Security actually came to me and asked me if I
wanted to go on the SS roles, right? That pesky Stroke I planned after
the heart issue (and THAT took some real timing let me tell you!!) put
me right into the willing arms of the SS crowd...100% disability from
what they told me. They came right into my room at the hospital and
brought in the papers for me to sign and get medical disability!!

The little gal was a bit put out when I laughed at her and told her to
save it for someone who actually needed it..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.

So I guess I planned everything for naught, didnt I?

Eat **** Neddy. You know you really want to.

I just hope that those minding the List..dont take you as an
unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave if I ever get
to your neighborhood. Peoples Republik of Santa Monica, isnt it?

Now was there anything else you wish to spew about? If not..Ive got
planning to do for the next Big Welfare intitilement that Im going to
nail California on. After all..better me than a family of wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!


Foolish or stupid would be me changing my business practices based on
your advice.


If you want to fight about something..pick something else you may have
some ability to keep up with.

Yeah, right.

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.

Now for the rest of you guys who send emails instead of calling...do as
you choose. Ted may have some things that will attract the attention of
those buffoons reading emails that you dont. Other than buffoonery of
course. He is a "regular customer". He might even get a response.

Im curious though..how many of you who have sent off emailed
questions..have gotten a reply as of yet?

Please, let us know. Prove me wrong!! I implor!! I beg you!!

Gunner, who gets a response EVERY time he calls.





I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:15:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** ...and I dont **** around with anything

non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid

Turd..you are an idiot.

..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects

term is Idiot Savant?

you are a hypocritical Leftwinger.

...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry?

..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.


Eat ****

unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave

wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.


Better now? You can submit my bill to Medi-Cal.

Ned Simmons, Life Coach

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

--
Ned Simmons

Maybe he got a parking-lot ding in the door of his truck.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:38:52 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:15:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** ...and I dont **** around with anything

non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid

Turd..you are an idiot.

..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects

term is Idiot Savant?

you are a hypocritical Leftwinger.

...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry?

..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.


Eat ****

unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave

wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.


Better now? You can submit my bill to Medi-Cal.

Ned Simmons, Life Coach

So you actually got off your fat ass and did some metal removal?

Seems like Im good for you.

Where should I send you the bill?

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:42:20 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.


And the other poor *******s who have emailed companies and have gotten
no responses?

Whats the matter boys..afraid to use the phone these days? You two
gotten some additional wierd Leftwing mental illness about using the
phone?

At least it keeps you from calling little kids.

Hummm..or..does it have something to do with a court order?


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:02:57 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

--
Ned Simmons

Maybe he got a parking-lot ding in the door of his truck.

And we know who's responsible. I have it on good authority that the
incidence of door dings is 2-1/2x the national average in Home Depot
parking lots frequented by illegal day laborers.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:50:37 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:38:52 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:15:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** ...and I dont **** around with anything

non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid

Turd..you are an idiot.

..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects

term is Idiot Savant?

you are a hypocritical Leftwinger.

...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry?

..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.


Eat ****

unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave

wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.


Better now? You can submit my bill to Medi-Cal.

Ned Simmons, Life Coach

So you actually got off your fat ass and did some metal removal?

Sorry to disappoint. I weigh 145 pounds and have to wear suspenders
beacause I don't have enough ass to fetch up a belt.


Seems like Im good for you.

Where should I send you the bill?

ACORN handles my accounts receivable.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:26:54 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:50:37 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:38:52 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:15:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:20:56 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:05:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:26:07 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:22:10 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



I buy **** ...and I dont **** around with anything

non starter and is utterly ****ing ignored here?

Or are you gentlemen simply trying to look not only foolish..but stupid

Turd..you are an idiot.

..you are still an idiot in so many other aspects

term is Idiot Savant?

you are a hypocritical Leftwinger.

...hummm Idiot
Savant.....

machine tool repair tech in a state with a failing/nearly destroyed by
the Left, machine tool industry?

..like one of your beloved
illegal aliens.


Eat ****

unredeemable Leftard. If they do...Ill **** on your grave

wetbacks from
Guatamala..!!!!

I hope your headstone is nice and porous..so it will hold **** for a
long time.


Better now? You can submit my bill to Medi-Cal.

Ned Simmons, Life Coach

So you actually got off your fat ass and did some metal removal?

Sorry to disappoint. I weigh 145 pounds and have to wear suspenders
beacause I don't have enough ass to fetch up a belt.

So you and John Carrol are twins? Or your parents were test subjects of
the same failed drug testing program?

Im not surprising how many little guys are Leftwing Extremist Fringe
Kooks. I guess living in a world with normal sized males must "tweak"
something in that mush filled skull.



Seems like Im good for you.

Where should I send you the bill?

ACORN handles my accounts receivable.

Oddly enough Libtard...thats hardly surprising.

No wonder you live in the Peoples Republik of Santa Monica.

Small nation though...and one that will simply be bulldozed into the
ocean off the end of the pier when the Great Cull starts.

Say...hows that Resident Alien problem working out for you? You
know...all the creeps, goofs, deranged hairballs and whatnot that loves
living on your streets and alleys.

I understand that Venice Beach is having some problems with them dumping
raw sewage in the streets from the tanks of their ratty old motorhomes
and trailers and such. Have you invited a group of them into your home
yet? It would be the Liberal thing to do.

Snerk!

Gunner


Gunner



I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

Damn, I read the exchange and wondered if I still know the cast of characters.

I'm a big fan of email but only with established accounts where I have specific people
inside to contact. I'm not in to phone tag.

Wes

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:28:08 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:44:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I buy **** from vendors everyday..and I dont **** around with
anything
other than voice to voice..or face to face.


Oooh...'must have been a bad day at Rancho Cubo de Basura....

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

Damn, I read the exchange and wondered if I still know the cast of characters.

I'm a big fan of email but only with established accounts where I have specific people
inside to contact. I'm not in to phone tag.

Wes

Bingo! A voice of reason.


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Gunner Asch wrote:

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

Damn, I read the exchange and wondered if I still know the cast of characters.

I'm a big fan of email but only with established accounts where I have specific people
inside to contact. I'm not in to phone tag.

Wes

Bingo! A voice of reason.

Maybe it is my filtering but it sure looked like you went off on Ned, a guy I tend to
think has his head screwed on properly.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:27:42 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

All that because I prefer to submit purchase orders by email. Imagine
if we disagreed on something substantive, like the 4th Amendment or
brands of cat kibble.

Damn, I read the exchange and wondered if I still know the cast of characters.

I'm a big fan of email but only with established accounts where I have specific people
inside to contact. I'm not in to phone tag.

Wes

Bingo! A voice of reason.

Maybe it is my filtering but it sure looked like you went off on Ned, a guy I tend to
think has his head screwed on properly.

Wes

Nope. I stated quite clearly to everyone..that if they want clear
answers NOW..they should call, not wait around for a returned
email..that may never come. Ned of course then puffed up his chest and
blithered about how he ONLY emails yada yada.

The implication of course is that Im utterly full of **** and he does
Xnumbers of dollars worth of business from his known suppliers only via
email.

The question of course was not how much business one does with a known
vendor, but getting actual answers on questions from new companies one
is trying to get info from.

I constantly see people emailing..then never getting anything done,
because they dont get clear and immediate answers. I see this here, I
see this in the Real World.

I repair a variety of machinery. Some of which will require parts. You
will NEVER find me emailing the sources of those parts, because
frankly..the client needs the machine fixed ASAP, not next week, next
month, next year. I make a living on getting machinery repaired as soon
as possible. And Id have been out of business long ago if I had to
depend on email.

Shrug. Ned is .......Ned. Which is one of the reasons I dont pay all
that much attention to him, though I do read all of his posts. Im sure
he feels the same way about me. Such is life.

Yawn.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)