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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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Gunner Asch on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:29:46 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash. It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the other as well. Interesting choices of words. So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an athiest? Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious mythology to shield me from the real world. Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter. Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion? Roger sounds like the sort of atheist who not does not believe in the existence of God, but takes it as a personal affront that God doesn't exist. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#42
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pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:03:33 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation. Had to look it up: noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. What rites and ceremonies does the SA have? Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies. So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so? 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious groups? Other than Good Works. I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious groups. So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different about that "binding" element? 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and the $ sign? The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult. So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with unbelievers" ring any bells? 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity? Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the mainstream news when the issue came up. Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes. Someone posted accepted definitions of a cult, and I indicated which of those definitions the SA met. Yet you say they meet those definitions, but don't clarify in what manner they do. What do they do that meets the criterion. If you don't like that they meet nearly all of the definitions of a cult, that's your problem and doesn't change the fact that they do indeed meet those accepted definitions. The problem I have is that from the outside, every organization can be called a cult, especially by those who have an animus against it. Ever ask yourself "was [the organization I was in] a 'cult'?" "been there, done that." Yes, pretty much every religion meets the definitions of a cult. They are pretty well synonymous. I was never in *any* religion / cult, I was born with the insight to see them for what they are, and the iron will to never be coerced by anyone. |
#43
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On Aug 9, 4:23*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. The Salvation Army may be a cult, but so what. What is more important is what they do. I do not see that they are especially harmful in any way , and do help local and foreign people. The local one color codes all items in the thrift shop. Marks down the older merchandise by half. And if it is still there after a week or so, ships the older merchandise to foreign countries. Dan |
#44
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:27:51 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:03:33 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation. Had to look it up: noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. What rites and ceremonies does the SA have? Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies. So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so? 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious groups? Other than Good Works. I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious groups. So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different about that "binding" element? 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and the $ sign? The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult. So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with unbelievers" ring any bells? 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity? Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the mainstream news when the issue came up. Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes. Someone posted accepted definitions of a cult, and I indicated which of those definitions the SA met. Yet you say they meet those definitions, but don't clarify in what manner they do. What do they do that meets the criterion. If you don't like that they meet nearly all of the definitions of a cult, that's your problem and doesn't change the fact that they do indeed meet those accepted definitions. The problem I have is that from the outside, every organization can be called a cult, especially by those who have an animus against it. Ever ask yourself "was [the organization I was in] a 'cult'?" "been there, done that." Yes, pretty much every religion meets the definitions of a cult. They are pretty well synonymous. I was never in *any* religion / cult, I was born with the insight to see them for what they are, and the iron will to never be coerced by anyone. So was josef stalin and Mao. G Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
#45
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Aug 9, 4:23*pm, "Pete C." wrote: I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. The Salvation Army may be a cult, but so what. What is more important is what they do. I do not see that they are especially harmful in any way , and do help local and foreign people. The local one color codes all items in the thrift shop. Marks down the older merchandise by half. And if it is still there after a week or so, ships the older merchandise to foreign countries. Dan Indeed. No matter what PeteC thinks..the big question is...does an organization/cult etc do good works that are a plus for society..or a negative? I dont recall the SA going door to door, pestering anyone, and they have a very very long track record of good works. So if they can..can be considered a cult...so what? Im a cult member myself. I belong to the Cult of the Gun. John Moses Browning was one of the Founders. Along with Col. Colt, the Wessons and Smiths...a very long history..going back to a couple Chinese guys nearly a thousand years ago. In fact..we may have the Vatican beat for duration. No voodoo or scary masks. We dont need em. Gunner No vodo "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
#46
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On Aug 11, 10:38*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: Conscience wrote: Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart. I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. *Shoppers vote with dollars. I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult? Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees can marry, etc. Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? *Wow, news flash. It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the other as well. Interesting choices of words. So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an athiest? Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious mythology to shield me from the real world. Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter. Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people devoting their lives to their religion *in such a fashion? Nah...it couldnt be...could it? * *You are not a leftwinger are you? They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out..... Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists? You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief, dont you? Gunner, if you're a Buddhist, and not some hyphenated theist, then you're an atheist, too. Buddhism is a non-theistic relgion; its premise is that god(s) are unnecessary. There is no "god" in Buddhism. Atheism means "without god(s)." It's something you share with Pete -- if you're telling the truth. -- Ed Huntress But Gunner wouldn't know that... |
#47
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On Aug 11, 10:29*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: Conscience wrote: Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart. I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. *Shoppers vote with dollars. I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult? Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees can marry, etc. Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? *Wow, news flash. It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the other as well. Interesting choices of words. So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an athiest? Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious mythology to shield me from the real world. Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter. Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people devoting their lives to their religion *in such a fashion? Nah...it couldnt be...could it? * *You are not a leftwinger are you? They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out..... Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists? You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief, dont you? Gunner Tell us, Mr. Buddhist, about your god. I dare you. (somebody please repost this so Gunner sees it). |
#48
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On Aug 11, 11:42*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
So then...Catholics, Lutherns, Rensi Buddists and Jews...etc etc etc are also cultists then by your definitons? Skipping the rest of your hot air, I call bull****. Google ""rensi buddhist"" and get exactly one hit. A post from Gunner Asch on August 4 (just a week ago) in which he says, "Thats why Im Renzi (Rensi) Buddhist. We are allowed to kill if necessary." That is the only reference to these two words next to each other in all of Google's inventory. If you modify the search to "renzi Buddhist" there are more hits. Eight out of the first ten are usenet posts from Gunner. The ninth is a description of a caligraphy exhibit and the tenth is something like a singles ad from " A person born in Puerto Rico and raise in the South Bronx, New York. An ordained priest ZPO, Peacemaker Order(grounded in Soto/Renzi Buddhist practices and Social Action model), founded by Roshi Bernard Glassman and Roshi Sandra Jishu Holmes.And a member of Noetic Sciences for many years" Gunner is truly a legend in his own mind. |
#49
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Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Aug 9, 4:23 pm, "Pete C." wrote: I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. The Salvation Army may be a cult, but so what. What is more important is what they do. I do not see that they are especially harmful in any way , and do help local and foreign people. The local one color codes all items in the thrift shop. Marks down the older merchandise by half. And if it is still there after a week or so, ships the older merchandise to foreign countries. Dan Indeed. No matter what PeteC thinks..the big question is...does an organization/cult etc do good works that are a plus for society..or a negative? It rather depends in the manner that they do things in i.e. coercive proselytizing. I dont recall the SA going door to door, pestering anyone, and they have a very very long track record of good works. Er, you don't recall very well then. The SA is known worldwide for stationing themselves at doors (of stores) and pestering everyone, which brings us back to the previous point about one store not allowing their customers to be so pestered. So if they can..can be considered a cult...so what? Im a cult member myself. I belong to the Cult of the Gun. John Moses Browning was one of the Founders. Along with Col. Colt, the Wessons and Smiths...a very long history..going back to a couple Chinese guys nearly a thousand years ago. In fact..we may have the Vatican beat for duration. I have one of Mr. Browning's wonderful designs (BAR), a couple of Smith and Wesson's, one Colt at the moment, but another on the way, etc. I am however not a cult member, I don't worship guns and my life does not revolve around guns, I simply use them as the tools they are. |
#50
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"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Aug 11, 10:38 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: Conscience wrote: Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart. I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote with dollars. I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult? Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees can marry, etc. Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash. It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the other as well. Interesting choices of words. So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an athiest? Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious mythology to shield me from the real world. Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter. Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion? Nah...it couldnt be...could it? You are not a leftwinger are you? They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out..... Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists? You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief, dont you? Gunner, if you're a Buddhist, and not some hyphenated theist, then you're an atheist, too. Buddhism is a non-theistic relgion; its premise is that god(s) are unnecessary. There is no "god" in Buddhism. Atheism means "without god(s)." It's something you share with Pete -- if you're telling the truth. -- Ed Huntress But Gunner wouldn't know that... Gunner wouldn't *care* He stopped caring about facts a few years ago. All he has now is endless b.s. -- Ed Huntress |
#51
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:59:54 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Aug 9, 4:23 pm, "Pete C." wrote: I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. The Salvation Army may be a cult, but so what. What is more important is what they do. I do not see that they are especially harmful in any way , and do help local and foreign people. The local one color codes all items in the thrift shop. Marks down the older merchandise by half. And if it is still there after a week or so, ships the older merchandise to foreign countries. Dan Indeed. No matter what PeteC thinks..the big question is...does an organization/cult etc do good works that are a plus for society..or a negative? It rather depends in the manner that they do things in i.e. coercive proselytizing. Coercive? You mean people are held against their will and forced listen? Or are you saying that they have definate programs..and if you choose not to follow one...you can leave? Sounds much like the Boy Scouts, doesnt it? I dont recall the SA going door to door, pestering anyone, and they have a very very long track record of good works. Er, you don't recall very well then. The SA is known worldwide for stationing themselves at doors (of stores) and pestering everyone, which brings us back to the previous point about one store not allowing their customers to be so pestered. Pestering? Would that be like those people registering unregistered voters and those who are trying to get a ride for their kids and a couple carts full of junk cause "their car just died" Pestering? They wont let you into the store unless you sign on? So if they can..can be considered a cult...so what? Im a cult member myself. I belong to the Cult of the Gun. John Moses Browning was one of the Founders. Along with Col. Colt, the Wessons and Smiths...a very long history..going back to a couple Chinese guys nearly a thousand years ago. In fact..we may have the Vatican beat for duration. I have one of Mr. Browning's wonderful designs (BAR), a couple of Smith and Wesson's, one Colt at the moment, but another on the way, etc. I am however not a cult member, I don't worship guns and my life does not revolve around guns, I simply use them as the tools they are. Worship? Who said anything about worshiping? I was just using your 10 item definition list as a guide to my/our cult. So you do belong to a cult. Do you feel...spoiled? Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
#52
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Gunner Asch on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:23:49 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Aug 9, 4:23*pm, "Pete C." wrote: I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. The Salvation Army may be a cult, but so what. What is more important is what they do. I do not see that they are especially harmful in any way , and do help local and foreign people. The local one color codes all items in the thrift shop. Marks down the older merchandise by half. And if it is still there after a week or so, ships the older merchandise to foreign countries. Dan Indeed. No matter what PeteC thinks..the big question is...does an organization/cult etc do good works that are a plus for society..or a negative? I dont recall the SA going door to door, pestering anyone, and they have a very very long track record of good works. So if they can..can be considered a cult...so what? Im a cult member myself. I belong to the Cult of the Gun. John Moses Browning was one of the Founders. Along with Col. Colt, the Wessons and Smiths...a very long history..going back to a couple Chinese guys nearly a thousand years ago. In fact..we may have the Vatican beat for duration. No voodoo or scary masks. We dont need em. From the Academic Sense - "cult" defines the particular worship pattern of a specific belief system. Thus the Cult of Yahweh as distinct from the Cult of Baal, the cult of the Roman Catholic Church vs the Cult of the Presbyterians. Sects are different variations on the cult, such as the difference between the cult practices of the Zen Buddhists and Renzai Buddhist - who both agree the Tibetans are a little bit "different". Well just skip over the Church of Elvis. Then we have the cults of personality, a term originally coined in reference to Stalin, but Mao, Hitler, Mussolini, Jim Jones, and Obama have their own devotees. On a tangent, this is one of the distinctions between an authoritarian regime and a totalitarian one. In an authoritarian, you just have to abide by the Dear Leader's rules; In a totalitarian one, you must not only obey Dear Leader, but love him. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#53
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"Pete C." on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:27:51 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:03:33 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation. Had to look it up: noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. What rites and ceremonies does the SA have? Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies. So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so? 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious groups? Other than Good Works. I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious groups. So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different about that "binding" element? 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and the $ sign? The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult. So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with unbelievers" ring any bells? 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity? Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the mainstream news when the issue came up. Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes. Someone posted accepted definitions of a cult, and I indicated which of those definitions the SA met. Yet you say they meet those definitions, but don't clarify in what manner they do. What do they do that meets the criterion. If you don't like that they meet nearly all of the definitions of a cult, that's your problem and doesn't change the fact that they do indeed meet those accepted definitions. The problem I have is that from the outside, every organization can be called a cult, especially by those who have an animus against it. Ever ask yourself "was [the organization I was in] a 'cult'?" "been there, done that." Yes, pretty much every religion meets the definitions of a cult. They are pretty well synonymous. I was never in *any* religion / cult, I was born with the insight to see them for what they are, and the iron will to never be coerced by anyone. Good. Think for yourself. And question Authority. Because Noam Chomsky says so. toodles pyotr -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#54
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Gunner Asch on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:16:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: The problem I have is that from the outside, every organization can be called a cult, especially by those who have an animus against it. Ever ask yourself "was [the organization I was in] a 'cult'?" "been there, done that." Yes, pretty much every religion meets the definitions of a cult. They are pretty well synonymous. I was never in *any* religion / cult, I was born with the insight to see them for what they are, and the iron will to never be coerced by anyone. So was josef stalin and Mao. Both of whom (if memory serves) spent some time in Seminarians. As the commissar tells the priest, "It was you who taught us 'keep the codex simple and the hierarchy exclusive' - with the one you flush out the heretic, with the other you crush them." -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#55
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On Aug 11, 9:36*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 11, 10:29*am, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: "Pete C." wrote: Wes wrote: Conscience wrote: Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart. I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. *Shoppers vote with dollars. I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult? Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees can marry, etc. Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? *Wow, news flash. It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the other as well. Interesting choices of words. So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an athiest? Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious mythology to shield me from the real world. Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter. Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people devoting their lives to their religion *in such a fashion? Nah...it couldnt be...could it? * *You are not a leftwinger are you? They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out..... Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists? You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief, dont you? Gunner Tell us, Mr. Buddhist, about your god. I dare you. (somebody please repost this so Gunner sees it). And once again, nothing but crickets at rancho del gunner. |
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"Pete C." wrote in message ster.com... Wes wrote: Conscience wrote: Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart. I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote with dollars. I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly meets all the definitions of a cult. My father and a friend had recently been commisioned as Second Lieutenants. They visited a local SA and offered to join but only if they could keep their rank. Their offer was not accepted... |
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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult. Which was what? That they wanted their management to be part of a husband and wife team? Sounds like Corporate America. I was thinking the same thing. That would definitely apply to any executive position in a major firm, especially one with far-flung branches. But perhaps a closer analogy is to any major religion that allows priests/ministers to marry. For example, Episcopalian priests and their spouses relocate as necessary to serve the church's needs. |
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John Husvar on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:19:45 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Awwww, horseapples, you two! "Cult" is merely a sociological term for fitting all or part of a list of behaviors. It is value neutral -- except for the connotations it has accreted in non-academic and media use. Every religion I've ever heard of has some or all of the characteristics of a "cult." Goes with the territory. Atheism can't be a religion in the usual Western sense because it doesn't accept the central thesis of such religions: a god. There are those who do not believe there is a God, and there are those who believe there is No God. Or "happy atheists" and "grumpy atheists". (Eastern and other philosopho-religions are their own special cases.) As far as provability, fuggedaboutit: Theists can't prove there is a god Some of us will say that trying to "prove" God is like trying to show a picture of a sound. Different areas of perception. So, I agree there. and atheists can't prove there isn't. (that proving a negative thingy) (Even Dyslexic Agnostics can't "prove" their case(s). Neither position is subject to empirical or logical proof since what is to be proved doesn't seem to exhibit any reliable evidence either way. IMHO, about the only tenable position is: I don't know and probably can't know and probably wouldn't be able to grasp it if I could know, being stuck with a finite mind. Not to say the thread hasn't been fun to read, doncha know. Now does this muddy the waters any more? :P -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
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In , on Wed, 11 Aug 2010
08:42:04 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no God(s) Id be happy as a lark to look at it. As with AGW (and EVERYTHING else), those making the assertion have the burden of proof. An atheist merely says, "I don't believe God is what you say It is until you prove it to me. "Prove It to me," says this lark. |
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On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:59:33 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: In , on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:04 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no God(s) Id be happy as a lark to look at it. As with AGW (and EVERYTHING else), those making the assertion have the burden of proof. An atheist merely says, "I don't believe God is what you say It is until you prove it to me. "Prove It to me," says this lark. Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. And they flatly refuse to believe in things that give strong evidence to there being gods, angels and so forth. All "coincidence" or fantasy. They are so locked into their No God belief system that they cannot keep an open mind. Agnostics on the other hand....keep an open mind. PeteC is a prime example of the militant atheist. Not only does he not believe..but anyone who does is evil and a member of a dangerous "cult". Agnostics could care less if one believes or not. Atheists on the other hand....are completely satisified that anyone who does believe is mentally ill, retarded, an evil cult member etc etc etc. So they are as locked into their belief system as any fringe christian. As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
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On 8/14/2010 2:59 PM, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote:
, on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:04 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no God(s) Id be happy as a lark to look at it. As with AGW (and EVERYTHING else), those making the assertion have the burden of proof. An atheist merely says, "I don't believe God is what you say It is until you prove it to me. "Prove It to me," says this lark. And you made the assertion is that "there is no god" so the burden of proof is on you. |
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Gunner Asch on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:36:55 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Agnostics could care less if one believes or not. Atheists on the other hand....are completely satisified that anyone who does believe is mentally ill, retarded, an evil cult member etc etc etc. As I've said before, there are 'happy' atheist and 'grumpy' ones. The"happy" ones don't believe there is a god, and don't care. They don't care if you do; Some people like NASCAR, some like college football, some folks go to church. Whatever. Push the button marked "Religion" and you get "null response" The grumpy ones, otoh, not only insist that there is No God, but care mightily if you do. I think it was Orwell who wrote that they were the sort who were deeply offended that God did not exist. Push the button marked "Religion" and you get a sermon, a homily and a choral production. I've had friends of both sort. -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
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In , on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:38:56 -0400, J.
Clarke, wrote: On 8/14/2010 2:59 PM, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: , on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:04 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no God(s) Id be happy as a lark to look at it. As with AGW (and EVERYTHING else), those making the assertion have the burden of proof. An atheist merely says, "I don't believe God is what you say It is until you prove it to me. "Prove It to me," says this lark. And you made the assertion is that "there is no god" so the burden of proof is on you. Where did I ever assert such a thing? Use as much blank space as is necessary... Asking for proof of an assertion is not an assertion. |
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:32:17 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: PeteC is a prime example of the militant atheist. Not only does he not believe..but anyone who does is evil and a member of a dangerous "cult". How would you classify someone who kills someone else because they believe it is the will of their god? Jews killing Muslims. Christians killing Jews. Muslims killing Christians. All because their view of god is the "correct" one. How's that's NOT dangerous??? blink, blink Agnostics could [n't] care less if one believes or not. Atheists on the other hand....are completely satisified that anyone who does believe is mentally ill, retarded, an evil cult member etc etc etc. The two are not mutually exclusive. So they are as locked into their belief system as any fringe christian. I've already demonstrated that (most) atheists have open minds while (most) christians are locked into their dogma (often known as "THE Way"). There is no "atheist belief system." You have made the Claim that most atheists have an open mind. Period. And of course most Religious are locked into their religion. Thats a given, and not just Christians. There are loads of religions besides Christians. As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. Repeating it yet one more time doesn't make it any truer than it was last time. Please provide substantiation of the codification of atheism, beyond just repeating it. Who ever claimed Atheism is "codefied"? But its obvious to the outsider. You seem to verify most of my points, though you attempt to use the fact that "christians" are locked into their beliefs while attempting to minimize the fact that so are atheists. No one ever claimed that the religious are NOT locked into their bleeves. You on the other hand...make the attempt to avoid admitting that atheists are also locked (and often as ferverently and militantly as bleevers) into theirs. While your post is interesting for the outsider to help understand the Atheist mindset..your denial is rather pitiful. Shrug Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
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On 8/15/2010 4:38 PM, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote:
, on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:38:56 -0400, J. Clarke, wrote: On 8/14/2010 2:59 PM, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: , on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:04 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no God(s) Id be happy as a lark to look at it. As with AGW (and EVERYTHING else), those making the assertion have the burden of proof. An atheist merely says, "I don't believe God is what you say It is until you prove it to me. "Prove It to me," says this lark. And you made the assertion is that "there is no god" so the burden of proof is on you. Where did I ever assert such a thing? Use as much blank space as is necessary... If you do not believe this to be the case then why are you having this discussion? Asking for proof of an assertion is not an assertion. So you are responding to an original post in which someone asserted that there is a deity? |
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Gunner Asch on Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:42:40 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: You seem to verify most of my points, though you attempt to use the fact that "christians" are locked into their beliefs while attempting to minimize the fact that so are atheists. No one ever claimed that the religious are NOT locked into their bleeves. You on the other hand...make the attempt to avoid admitting that atheists are also locked (and often as ferverently and militantly as bleevers) into theirs. It would be pretty funny if people were not bound by their religious beliefs. Like the non-theists who still want the religious holidays off from work. While your post is interesting for the outsider to help understand the Atheist mindset..your denial is rather pitiful. Shrug -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
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On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:46:11 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: You have made the Claim that most atheists have an open mind. Period. And of course most Religious are locked into their religion. Thats a given, and not just Christians. There are loads of religions besides Christians. Um... yes, as I said about 6 paragraphs up. It went like this: How would you classify someone who kills someone else because they believe it is the will of their god? Jews killing Muslims. Christians killing Jews. Muslims killing Christians. All because their view of [the same] god is the "correct" one. How's that's NOT dangerous??? blink, blink So which God did the Soviets and Red Chinese follow, when they murdered some 175,000,000 of their own people? Hummmm??? As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. Repeating it yet one more time doesn't make it any truer than it was last time. Please provide substantiation of the codification of atheism, beyond just repeating it. Who ever claimed Atheism is "codefied"? You did. In saying it's a religious belief system. By definition, religious belief _systems_ are codified. You also stated there's some kind of "atheist gospel" which would also be a claim that atheism is codified. It may be YOUR definition, but its hardly a universal one. Please do try harder. Your buffoonery stands high amongst so many buffoons. cod·i·fy (kd-f, kd-) tr.v. cod·i·fied, cod·i·fy·ing, cod·i·fies 1. To reduce to a code: codify laws. 2. To arrange or systematize. But its obvious to the outsider. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Lots more if you would care to ask. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. You seem to verify most of my points, though you attempt to use the fact that "christians" are locked into their beliefs while attempting to minimize the fact that so are atheists. No one ever claimed that the religious are NOT locked into their bleeves. You on the other hand...make the attempt to avoid admitting that atheists are also locked (and often as ferverently and militantly as bleevers) into theirs. Read The Intention Experiment wherein atheists are truly and earnestly trying to figure out how "good vibes" sometimes work better than prayer. Metaphysical matters like that are avoided like the plague by the religious, yet actively explored by atheists. How is seeking the truth, no matter how "weird" it turns out to be, "locked into a belief system?" How many Christians/Jews/Muslims do you suppose would ever earnestly seek the answer to why prayer is at times less effective than "good vibes?" Prayer works. Good vibes work. Why? See, once you start hinting at the fact that good vibes work even without a belief in a god, then you have to start down the path to what role does god play in answering prayers? The answer comes back, "apparently nothing." Not something religious folk want to hear. Who asked the question? Are you sure the answer is that one? I see you have never seen a "miracle" happen. Many many people have. I cant say that I have or have not. Its not germane to this conversation. While your post is interesting for the outsider to help understand the Atheist mindset..your denial is rather pitiful. What denial? That there's some kind of codified religious belief system for atheism? I've never seen an "atheist gospel," and don't believe one exists. Since you keep stating that it does, maybe you can provide a link. Shrug Indeed. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. You may wish to look at the real world however... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
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On 8/16/2010 12:35 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
(...) It would be pretty funny if people were not bound by their religious beliefs. Like the non-theists who still want the religious holidays off from work. Or those who could use a couple extra 10 minute breaks to stretch and walk around outside, but can't because they are non-smokers (and those who could use an occasional afternoon off but can't because they don't have kids). --Winston |
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In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010
04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. Glad you finally admit it. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. Get well soon. |
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel..neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. However I showed the Definitions of atheist..which means that the concept is hardly unknown to the world at large. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. Glad you finally admit it. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists do believe that there is a god(s)?????? Or are you simply ****ing around trying to be as buffoonish as possible? Get well soon. Im doing fine. You however will be a buffoon for the rest of your life, no matter how long that will be. And given that the Great Cull is not far off....one suspects it will be far shorter than mine. Shrug Gunner "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
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In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010
11:47:26 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel.. This is the very first time I've mentioned creed. Sorry, I'll try to keep the introduction of new words/concepts in the thread to a minimum. neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists do believe that there is a god(s)?????? No. I'm pointing out that you invented some sort of atheist gospel, but when pressed for cites, came up with dictionary defintions instead, calling the very idea of an atheist gospel buffoonish, and repeatedly denying it was your invention to begin with. |
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On Aug 16, 4:24*pm, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:47:26 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, *I'm really sorry about your stroke. *Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist *Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. *Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel.. * This is the very first time I've mentioned creed. *Sorry, I'll try to keep the introduction of new words/concepts in the thread to a minimum. neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. * * The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: * * *Actually....most militant atheists claim that there * * *is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written * * *in their gospel. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. * The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: * * *Actually....most militant atheists claim that there * * *is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written * * *in their gospel. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. * The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: * * *Actually....most militant atheists claim that there * * *is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written * * *in their gospel. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. * The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: * * *Actually....most militant atheists claim that there * * *is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written * * *in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. *http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism *http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist *http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html *http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist *Never mind. *I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists *do believe that there is a god(s)?????? * No. *I'm pointing out that you invented some sort of atheist gospel, but when pressed for cites, came up with dictionary defintions instead, calling the very idea of an atheist gospel buffoonish, and repeatedly denying it was your invention to begin with.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Gunner makes stuff up and then believes it to be true - after all, why would he lie to himself ;-? Recently, he made up an entire Buddhist sect that believes in god and has no respect for the lives of others, and has been unable or unwilling to provide any evidence that he is not the only member of this religion. (well, to be fair, I did find one other kook who claims to be some sort of ordained something-or- other). It's a shame that the people who re-plumbed his heart didn't require him the get a psych evaluation. Perhaps then hw would have gotten the treatment he (pretty obviously) needs. |
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It Begins
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:24:43 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:47:26 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel.. This is the very first time I've mentioned creed. Sorry, I'll try to keep the introduction of new words/concepts in the thread to a minimum. neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists do believe that there is a god(s)?????? No. I'm pointing out that you invented some sort of atheist gospel, but when pressed for cites, came up with dictionary defintions instead, calling the very idea of an atheist gospel buffoonish, and repeatedly denying it was your invention to begin with. Notice the SINGLE time I used it, it was in lower case letters? Not upper case. gos·pel (gspl) n. |
#76
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It Begins
Gunner Asch on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. Repeating it yet one more time doesn't make it any truer than it was last time. Please provide substantiation of the codification of atheism, beyond just repeating it. Who ever claimed Atheism is "codefied"? You did. In saying it's a religious belief system. By definition, religious belief _systems_ are codified. You also stated there's some kind of "atheist gospel" which would also be a claim that atheism is codified. It may be YOUR definition, but its hardly a universal one. Please do try harder. Your buffoonery stands high amongst so many buffoons. "Religious belief systems are codified" snerk. There's a saying in the Orthodox Church "Orthodoxy, Unorganized religion at its finest. Two thousand years and still going." -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#77
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It Begins
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:58:43 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Gunner Asch on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. Repeating it yet one more time doesn't make it any truer than it was last time. Please provide substantiation of the codification of atheism, beyond just repeating it. Who ever claimed Atheism is "codefied"? You did. In saying it's a religious belief system. By definition, religious belief _systems_ are codified. You also stated there's some kind of "atheist gospel" which would also be a claim that atheism is codified. It may be YOUR definition, but its hardly a universal one. Please do try harder. Your buffoonery stands high amongst so many buffoons. "Religious belief systems are codified" snerk. There's a saying in the Orthodox Church "Orthodoxy, Unorganized religion at its finest. Two thousand years and still going." ROFLMAO!! Indeed! Gunner, Rensai Buddhist-Reformed Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning "A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray; a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all. A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children. A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station; an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted." Bobby XD9 |
#78
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It Begins
On Aug 17, 5:59*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:58:43 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote: Gunner Asch on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking *the following: As Ive mentioned before..Atheism is no more and no less than just another religious belief system. *Repeating it yet one more time doesn't make it any truer than it was last time. *Please provide substantiation of the codification of atheism, beyond just repeating it. Who ever claimed Atheism is "codefied"? *You did. *In saying it's a religious belief system. *By definition, religious belief _systems_ are codified. *You also stated there's some kind of "atheist gospel" which would also be a claim that atheism is codified. It may be YOUR definition, but its hardly a universal one. Please do try harder. Your buffoonery stands high amongst so many buffoons. * *"Religious belief systems are codified" *snerk. *There's a saying in the Orthodox Church "Orthodoxy, Unorganized religion at its finest. Two thousand years and still going." ROFLMAO!! *Indeed! Gunner, Rensai Buddhist-Reformed * * * * * * * Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning Gunner, you are completely full of ****. |
#79
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It Begins
In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010
14:45:59 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:24:43 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:47:26 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel.. This is the very first time I've mentioned creed. Sorry, I'll try to keep the introduction of new words/concepts in the thread to a minimum. neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists do believe that there is a god(s)?????? No. I'm pointing out that you invented some sort of atheist gospel, but when pressed for cites, came up with dictionary defintions instead, calling the very idea of an atheist gospel buffoonish, and repeatedly denying it was your invention to begin with. Notice the SINGLE time I used it, it was in lower case letters? Not upper case. So, after ALL those times of denying you EVER said it, you FINALLY admit it. After all those times of calling the very idea buffoonish, you now try to defend it. LOL! Clear your mind, and picture this: A chameleon in a kaleidoscope. That's what I'm seeing. :-) gos·pel (gspl) n. 1. often Gospel The proclamation of the redemption preached by Jesus and the Apostles, which is the central content of Christian revelation. 2. a. Gospel Bible One of the first four New Testament books, describing the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and recording his teaching. b. A similar narrative. 3. often Gospel A lection from any of the first four New Testament books included as part of a religious service. 4. A teaching or doctrine of a religious teacher. 5. Music Gospel music. 6. Something, such as an idea or principle, accepted as unquestionably true: My parents' rules were gospel. adj. Check #6 if you would be so kind And it fits rather well, with good irony, doesnt it? WRITTEN... IN... an idea or principle? No, that doesn't make any sense at all. If something is WRITTEN IN a gospel, then that gospel has to be "manifest" meaning that I should be able to lay my hands on a book, or download a computer file wherein something IS WRITTEN. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gospel Main Entry: 1gos·pel Pronunciation: \?gäs-p?l\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English go-dspel (translation of Late Latin evangelium), from go-d good + spell tale — more at spell Date: before 12th century 1 a often capitalized : the message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation b capitalized : one of the first four New Testament books telling of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; also : a similar apocryphal book c : an interpretation of the Christian message the social gospel 2 capitalized : a lection from one of the New Testament Gospels 3 : the message or teachings of a religious teacher 4 : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine took her words as gospel spreading the gospel of conservation — R. M. Hodesh See #4. It too fits rather well, doesnt it? Ditto on "irony" G See above. #4 doesn't fit the context of your "atheist gospel" either. Or are you once again claiming that atheists really are unsure if there is a god(s) or not? Look at my first post in this thread. I put it as clearly and succinctly as possible. "4 : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine " Its rather pitiful that your intellect and ability to grasp and use words is so....poor. It's rather pitiful that you always have to resort to ad hominem. But then..you are a typical Leftwinger, Wow! Even without knowing I voted against Obama, against Clinton, and against Jimmy Carter, you somehow know I'm a "typical Leftwinger." You sure can assume real good there Gunner. mentally ill and self proclaiming as a Superior Being. Which is simply a symptom of your mental illness. Sucks..really sucks to be you..doesnt it? When all you've got is ad hominem, it's the ultimate admit of defeat... not a very gracious one, but I accept nonetheless. Come back when you grow more brain cells..the 3 that you are sporting simply are not enough. With luck your testicles will have descended as well and I can treat you like a man. And yet another ingracious acknowledgement of defeat. And yet, I accept again. I'm gone for a week, but yes, I'll be back. Save the discussion on the concept of atheism as a "religious belief system" for me. |
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It Begins
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:04:34 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real
wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:45:59 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:24:43 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:47:26 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:06:32 -0700, Fairy Tales Aren't Real wrote: In , on Mon, 16 Aug 2010 04:41:44 -0700, Gunner Asch, wrote: Gunner, I'm really sorry about your stroke. Please point me to this "atheist gospel" that's so obvious to everyone else. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Dictionary definitions don't even come up to the spcificity of a creed, never mind the meat of a gospel... so Bzzzt. Not even a nice try. You keep saying Creed and Gospel.. This is the very first time I've mentioned creed. Sorry, I'll try to keep the introduction of new words/concepts in the thread to a minimum. neither of which I mentioned whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Im not sure where you came up with the "atheist gospel" concept..but its simply as buffoonish as the rest of your post. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. Of course I admit that your inclusion of such a thing is wrong. I never mentioned it and you invented it. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. There you go with that "atheist gospel" thingy. I dont have a clue where the hell you drug that up from. But it certainly doesnt help your case whatsoever. The place I drug up the "atheist gospel" thingy was from wherein you stated: Actually....most militant atheists claim that there is no possiblity of there being a god(s). Its written in their gospel. If you need more cites, Ill be happy to supply them. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...finitions.html http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheist Never mind. I wanted a cite to this "atheist gospel" you kept insisting on, but since you've recanted your claim to its existence, my guess is that you couldn't find one. So you are claiming that atheists do believe that there is a god(s)?????? No. I'm pointing out that you invented some sort of atheist gospel, but when pressed for cites, came up with dictionary defintions instead, calling the very idea of an atheist gospel buffoonish, and repeatedly denying it was your invention to begin with. Notice the SINGLE time I used it, it was in lower case letters? Not upper case. So, after ALL those times of denying you EVER said it, you FINALLY admit it. After all those times of calling the very idea buffoonish, you now try to defend it. LOL! Tisk tisk....you keep trying to claim Gospel..and now you are nattering about gospel That capitalization really makes a differnce. Now I understand that to you..the typically mentally ill and moderately retarded Leftwinger there might not be any difference..but as #6 below states...its a vast difference from the Gospel in #1-5 Pay attention ****lips...Capitalization means something. Clear your mind, and picture this: A chameleon in a kaleidoscope. That's what I'm seeing. :-) gos·pel (gspl) n. 1. often Gospel The proclamation of the redemption preached by Jesus and the Apostles, which is the central content of Christian revelation. 2. a. Gospel Bible One of the first four New Testament books, describing the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and recording his teaching. b. A similar narrative. 3. often Gospel A lection from any of the first four New Testament books included as part of a religious service. 4. A teaching or doctrine of a religious teacher. 5. Music Gospel music. 6. Something, such as an idea or principle, accepted as unquestionably true: My parents' rules were gospel. adj. Check #6 if you would be so kind And it fits rather well, with good irony, doesnt it? WRITTEN... IN... an idea or principle? No, that doesn't make any sense at all. If something is WRITTEN IN a gospel, then that gospel has to be "manifest" meaning that I should be able to lay my hands on a book, or download a computer file wherein something IS WRITTEN. Upper or lower case "G"? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gospel Main Entry: 1gos·pel Pronunciation: \?gäs-p?l\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English go-dspel (translation of Late Latin evangelium), from go-d good + spell tale ? more at spell Date: before 12th century 1 a often capitalized : the message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation b capitalized : one of the first four New Testament books telling of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; also : a similar apocryphal book c : an interpretation of the Christian message the social gospel 2 capitalized : a lection from one of the New Testament Gospels 3 : the message or teachings of a religious teacher 4 : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine took her words as gospel spreading the gospel of conservation ? R. M. Hodesh See #4. It too fits rather well, doesnt it? Ditto on "irony" G See above. #4 doesn't fit the context of your "atheist gospel" either. Sure it does. It fits perfectly. Or are you once again claiming that atheists really are unsure if there is a god(s) or not? Look at my first post in this thread. I put it as clearly and succinctly as possible. So you are claiming that atheists are sure there is no god..and its their gospel that there is no god. Correct? "4 : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine " Its rather pitiful that your intellect and ability to grasp and use words is so....poor. It's rather pitiful that you always have to resort to ad hominem. But then..you are a typical Leftwinger, Wow! Even without knowing I voted against Obama, against Clinton, and against Jimmy Carter, you somehow know I'm a "typical Leftwinger." You sure can assume real good there Gunner. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and has webbed feet.... If you are not a Leftwinger..then obviously you are simply retarded. Pity about that, eh wot? mentally ill and self proclaiming as a Superior Being. Which is simply a symptom of your mental illness. Sucks..really sucks to be you..doesnt it? When all you've got is ad hominem, it's the ultimate admit of defeat... not a very gracious one, but I accept nonetheless. That Ive kicked your ass? Good lad. Come back when you grow more brain cells..the 3 that you are sporting simply are not enough. With luck your testicles will have descended as well and I can treat you like a man. And yet another ingracious acknowledgement of defeat. And yet, I accept again. I'm gone for a week, but yes, I'll be back. Save the discussion on the concept of atheism as a "religious belief system" for me. Why? Im right today, Im right tommorow and Ill be right next week on this subject. You will still be wrong, if you maintain this position. And you are still boring. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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