Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

Now that I figured out how to connect panel buttons to EMC and to
specify what to do when they are pressed, etc. I have coolant working
the way I want.

So now is the time to move on to more panel controls.

I have two buttons on my mill called (in the schematic) CYCLE START
and CYCLE STOP. I want to know what they mean exactly. I can make them
mean anything I want, but I want to do the right thing. This is a
little bit of a reality check.

I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.

If I press CYCLE STOP, I want motion, spindle and coolant to
stop. Then I could vacuum chips, measure something, etc. If I press
CYCLE START, I want spindle to restart, coolant to start flowing, and
motion to resume. I am a little fuzzy on this, like how can EMC
remember that coolant was running before, for example. I guess that
pressing cycle stop twice could mean end of program and return to
manual mode.

Any comments?

i
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

....
I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.

....

Exactly. Except you don't stop the spindle and coolant. Its used A LOT when
debugging a CNC program. You want these buttons located so you don't have to
look to find them. cyclestart can also restart a Gcode program after an
optional stop gcode. Most often used for moving clamps cleaning something,
etc.

I also like a single step mode switch so cycle start runs one line of Gcode.

You normally see spindle start CW, start CCW, and stop buttons.

Coolant is often on a three position switch with off, on, auto. Or start and
stop pushbuttons.

Karl



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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

Ignoramus18915 wrote:

So now is the time to move on to more panel controls.

I have two buttons on my mill called (in the schematic) CYCLE START
and CYCLE STOP. I want to know what they mean exactly. I can make them
mean anything I want, but I want to do the right thing. This is a
little bit of a reality check.

I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.


Yup, you got it.

Rewinding the program is 'RESET' on our Haas, the fanucs, you go to edit and then press
reset.

While you are implementing things. Single Block, optional stop, and rapid over ride
buttons would be nice. "Dry run" (Z axis not moving while X and Y goes though the
motions) is nice also. I suspect you can mouse click this stuff but buttons for the
things you might actually use are just better.

Wes
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-07-31, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus18915 wrote:

So now is the time to move on to more panel controls.

I have two buttons on my mill called (in the schematic) CYCLE START
and CYCLE STOP. I want to know what they mean exactly. I can make them
mean anything I want, but I want to do the right thing. This is a
little bit of a reality check.

I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.


Yup, you got it.

Rewinding the program is 'RESET' on our Haas, the fanucs, you go to edit and then press
reset.


I may be able to do something like, pressing CYCLE STOP while the
program is running is pause, byt pressing CYCLE STOP while paused is
RESET.

While you are implementing things. Single Block, optional stop, and rapid over ride
buttons would be nice. "Dry run" (Z axis not moving while X and Y goes though the
motions) is nice also. I suspect you can mouse click this stuff but buttons for the
things you might actually use are just better.


I have one button called LIMIT OVERRIDE. I do not really need it, as I
can do it with GUI and it does not seem likely that I will be tripping
limits a lot. So I could replace it with some other button altogether.

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i

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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.

...

Exactly. Except you don't stop the spindle and coolant. Its used A LOT when
debugging a CNC program. You want these buttons located so you don't have to
look to find them. cyclestart can also restart a Gcode program after an
optional stop gcode. Most often used for moving clamps cleaning something,
etc.

I also like a single step mode switch so cycle start runs one line of Gcode.

You normally see spindle start CW, start CCW, and stop buttons.

Coolant is often on a three position switch with off, on, auto. Or start and
stop pushbuttons.


Karl, I have one button that I do not want (limit override), I may
instead make it do one step of G code if EMC supports it.

i


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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP


What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.

Karl



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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:42:29 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.

Karl


Most commercial CNC lathes and mills have this feature. From 100%-150%.

I think of it as "military power " G

The pot is very important when you are trying to get as much out of the
machine per hour as possible.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.


OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.

i
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP


Ignoramus28671 wrote:

On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.


OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.

i


Feed rate override and spindle rpm override controls on industrial CNC
controls are generally not potentiometers, they are normally rotary
switches and operate in 10% steps both above and below the program feed
rate or RPM, i.e. 30%-...-90%-100%-110%-...-180%, which would work well
using a standard 4 bit 16 position rotary selector switch.
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-07-31, Ignoramus28671 wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.


OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.


Have it put out more than nominal speed voltage and run the
output voltage through a pot on the way to the VFD's input. That way
you can go from your selected amount above the nominal speed down to
zero speed (or perhaps add a fixed resistor on the bottom leg of the pot
so you don't quite get down to halted).

Of course -- if the system is monitoring the speed via the
spindle encoder, it will figure that something is wrong -- so prepare
for disabling the speed monitoring when using the pot.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-08-01, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Ignoramus28671 wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.


OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.


Have it put out more than nominal speed voltage and run the
output voltage through a pot on the way to the VFD's input. That way
you can go from your selected amount above the nominal speed down to
zero speed (or perhaps add a fixed resistor on the bottom leg of the pot
so you don't quite get down to halted).


It is not really for the VFD, it is for the rate of feed.

i

Of course -- if the system is monitoring the speed via the
spindle encoder, it will figure that something is wrong -- so prepare
for disabling the speed monitoring when using the pot.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-08-01, Ignoramus28671 wrote:
On 2010-08-01, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Ignoramus28671 wrote:


[ ... ]

OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.


Have it put out more than nominal speed voltage and run the
output voltage through a pot on the way to the VFD's input. That way
you can go from your selected amount above the nominal speed down to
zero speed (or perhaps add a fixed resistor on the bottom leg of the pot
so you don't quite get down to halted).


It is not really for the VFD, it is for the rate of feed.


Oh -- you're right.

Hmm ... a spare encoder on a knob to be read by a spare axis?
Perhaps run a display somewhere near (or prominently in the system's
monitor) showing how much the speed is boosted or reduced.

The BOSS-3 Bridgeport had a feed speed pot which could only be
used to reduce the speed -- so if you were starting to build up aluminum
on your mill, you could slow the feed while letting the job finish.

It was a nice Allen-Bradley pot in a nice Allen-Bradley mount
(same hole as the switches and coolant proof). So yours did not have
that? (or all of your switches and controls went away when you sold the
controller I guess.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP


Ignoramus28671 wrote:

On 2010-08-01, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Ignoramus28671 wrote:
On 2010-07-31, Karl Townsend wrote:

What I was thinking is to add a button sized potentiometer called
"speed override", where I can make everything run faster or slower.

i


This is EXTREMELY handy. No way do you get feeds just right on one of parts.
I've got a spindle speed pot on all my machines also. If you've got manual
machine experience you can dial in proper feeds and speeds in just a few
seconds. In my case, I've never used a speed feed calculator.

OK thanks. I do not know if Jon's PPMC can take in analog signal, I am
unaware of whether it is true or not. But if it could, it would be
nice. I will check with him.


Have it put out more than nominal speed voltage and run the
output voltage through a pot on the way to the VFD's input. That way
you can go from your selected amount above the nominal speed down to
zero speed (or perhaps add a fixed resistor on the bottom leg of the pot
so you don't quite get down to halted).


It is not really for the VFD, it is for the rate of feed.


Yes and the software definitely has a feed rate override function and
provisions for controlling that function from external "hard" controls,
not just soft keys on a screen. Of course a touch screen wouldn't
exactly be a bad thing either.
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLESTOP

Ignoramus18915 wrote:
Now that I figured out how to connect panel buttons to EMC and to
specify what to do when they are pressed, etc. I have coolant working
the way I want.

So now is the time to move on to more panel controls.

I have two buttons on my mill called (in the schematic) CYCLE START
and CYCLE STOP. I want to know what they mean exactly. I can make them
mean anything I want, but I want to do the right thing. This is a
little bit of a reality check.


On EMC, these would be essentially "Run" and "Pause".
I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.

If I press CYCLE STOP, I want motion, spindle and coolant to
stop.

On a commercial control, cycle stop will NOT stop the spindle.
Then I could vacuum chips, measure something, etc. If I press
CYCLE START, I want spindle to restart, coolant to start flowing, and
motion to resume. I am a little fuzzy on this, like how can EMC
remember that coolant was running before, for example. I guess that
pressing cycle stop twice could mean end of program and return to
manual mode.


EMC doesn't handle this as gracefully as some other controls. And, Run
is different than
"reSume" on most of the EMC2 GUIs. You could certainly fix this your
HAL interface to these buttons. I think the indication is if the
interpreter is not idle, then it is in the middle of a program, and you
would want a resume instead of a run. There is a program abort function
(Esc key) that terminates a program and stops spindle and coolant. You
can not resume from an abort. You have to manually restore the spindle,
spindle speed and coolant conditions and then do a "run from line" to
get back to where you were.

Jon
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLESTOP

Ignoramus28671 wrote:
Karl, I have one button that I do not want (limit override), I may
instead make it do one step of G code if EMC supports it.

EMC does have a single-block option.

Jon


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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-08-01, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus28671 wrote:
Karl, I have one button that I do not want (limit override), I may
instead make it do one step of G code if EMC supports it.

EMC does have a single-block option.


Awesome. This button is near pause and resume, so single step would
make sense.

i
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Default Professional CNC machine -- meaning of CYCLE START and CYCLE STOP

On 2010-08-01, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus18915 wrote:
Now that I figured out how to connect panel buttons to EMC and to
specify what to do when they are pressed, etc. I have coolant working
the way I want.

So now is the time to move on to more panel controls.

I have two buttons on my mill called (in the schematic) CYCLE START
and CYCLE STOP. I want to know what they mean exactly. I can make them
mean anything I want, but I want to do the right thing. This is a
little bit of a reality check.


On EMC, these would be essentially "Run" and "Pause".
I think that CYCLE START is like a play button, and CYCLE STOP is like
a pause button.

If I press CYCLE STOP, I want motion, spindle and coolant to
stop.

On a commercial control, cycle stop will NOT stop the spindle.
Then I could vacuum chips, measure something, etc. If I press
CYCLE START, I want spindle to restart, coolant to start flowing, and
motion to resume. I am a little fuzzy on this, like how can EMC
remember that coolant was running before, for example. I guess that
pressing cycle stop twice could mean end of program and return to
manual mode.


EMC doesn't handle this as gracefully as some other controls. And, Run
is different than
"reSume" on most of the EMC2 GUIs. You could certainly fix this your
HAL interface to these buttons. I think the indication is if the
interpreter is not idle, then it is in the middle of a program, and you
would want a resume instead of a run. There is a program abort function
(Esc key) that terminates a program and stops spindle and coolant. You
can not resume from an abort. You have to manually restore the spindle,
spindle speed and coolant conditions and then do a "run from line" to
get back to where you were.


I agree now that pause should pause the movement, but not the spindle
and not the coolant. I would let them keep running during a pause.

With that having been said, I think that it should be a simple job for
HALUI to have a start/resume button and a pause button.

i
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