Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

wrote in message
...
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


Indeed.

And the answer to the Q is:
Because everyone wants to be a fuknStockbroker.
Better to be the one doing the ****ing.

Spent an embarrassing number of years in the academic dog'n'pony show, the
only two things I ever used was Newton's law, and the pythagorean theorem,
and I lernt those in the 9th grade.

Apparently some tenured professors agree, as they basically said ****
Research, and had their students making meth et al.
And then got pretty ****ed at the trial judge.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/04/ny...1?pagewanted=1

Well, I guess in this case, organic chem principles would be more useful
than Newton's Laws -- acid-catalyzed hydrolysis, etc.
--
EA


  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 199
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.

Last fall I got one of those square work benches from shop class with
the slots for boards to pull out (can't recall what they are use for,
but there are about 8) and 8 drawers. Has to be from a school, I had
to put blocks under the legs cause it was way too short. That has to
be the best dollar I've spent, only problem was it was in a basement
EEE. Some day I'll get a picture of it on line. Oh even the drawers
are numbered and some are in the teens.

SW
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.

Last fall I got one of those square work benches from shop class with
the slots for boards to pull out (can't recall what they are use for,
but there are about 8) and 8 drawers. Has to be from a school, I had
to put blocks under the legs cause it was way too short. That has to
be the best dollar I've spent, only problem was it was in a basement
EEE. Some day I'll get a picture of it on line. Oh even the drawers
are numbered and some are in the teens.

SW


Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to industrial arts
teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial push for shop classes
was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need for jobs in industry. It was to
"build an appreciation" for "industriousness," and to provide "cultural
industrial education" as part of a broad curriculum. In other words, it
wasn't actually about preparation for industry; it was the late-18th century
version of liberal arts and preparation for Renaissance Men.

There always was a conflict in the teaching between those educators who saw
it as a "cultural" issue and those who wanted to train kids for industrial
jobs. Where shop classes were required (two schools I attended), it had its
roots in the cultural aspect. Where the classes were in-depth and closely
aligned with local industrial needs, it was a curriculum based on vocational
training. My uncle, who was the department head for a local school system in
industrial arts and head of the state Industrial Arts Education Association,
was one of the latter. He had his kids go on field trips to local industries
at least once every two weeks. They had aluminum and brass foundries,
injection molding, quality lathes and mills, and so on. Because copper wire
drawing was an important industry here, he had them learn how to make
diamond drawing dies in class. Making ceramic fixtures was another big local
industry; they had a ceramics class that was mostly about making sweep molds
for commercial manufacture of sinks, tubs, toilets, etc. They placed a LOT
of kids in those jobs.

In my area, the vocational training aspect has been separated into special
vo-tech high schools. There are at least three of them in my county; I took
welding classes in one of them. I toured the place and talked to the
teachers. They're into the vocational training all the way. They have good
equipment, including CNC machines, professional-style auto shop equipment,
and so on. They also teach at levels through the first two years of college,
providing specialty certificates that are almost equivalent to an
Associate's degree.

So when we bemoan the lack of shop classes, keep in mind that most of them
were never intended to train kids for industrial jobs. They might spark an
interest and give some kids a relief from the pure academics. I always
looked forward to shop because it gave me a chance to do something with my
hands that was really satisfying. That probably could be described as the
"cultural industrial arts" outcome. I don't recall that it made me
particularly industrious. d8-)

Now the schools are in a dilemma, because they've always been ambivalent
about the cultural/vocational dichotomy, and a lack of manufacturing jobs
has taken away much of the incentive to justify their programs with the
vocational issue. That's been shucked off to the specialty high schools in
areas like mine. The "cultural industrial arts" have fallen victim NOT to
political bias, unless you consider teaching the "basics" and the pressure
of "No Child Left Behind" to teach little more than reading, writing, and
math to be "political." I think we see pressure for it from both sides of
the political spectrum.

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is *tremendous*
pressure for kids to score higher on national math and English tests. And
that's why we're where we are today.

--
Ed Huntress


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Funny thing about "higher" education:
You can't do a goddamm thing with it, in actuality, but it does open
doors, ups the salary ante.
Higher ed is like a mental hazing.
The most useless people on earth are Manhattan's higher-educated echelon.
But, with pretty good paychecks.
--
EA


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,355
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

Sunworshipper on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:51:11 -0500 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.


Bingo! As was said once, the US was pretty good in technologies
which teenagers occasionally lost fingers in.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,355
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"Existential Angst" on Sat, 12 Jun 2010
15:14:16 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Funny thing about "higher" education:
You can't do a goddamm thing with it, in actuality, but it does open
doors, ups the salary ante.
Higher ed is like a mental hazing.
The most useless people on earth are Manhattan's higher-educated echelon.
But, with pretty good paychecks.


If they can get those paychecks. For most liberal art majors, the
ones with the degree in "---- Studies", the reality is they graduate
with a monstrous debt load and a degree which is useless in the real
world. So they are stuck with the low end jobs which don't pay, and a
student loan payment that sucks the life out of them.

"higher ed" is going to be the next "bubble" to pop. Just like
the housing bubble, people are being loaned money they have no hope of
repaying.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

-snip-

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost
the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.

-snip-

Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to
industrial arts teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial
push for shop classes was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need
for jobs in industry. It was to "build an appreciation" for
"industriousness," and to provide "cultural industrial education" as
part of a broad curriculum. In other words, it

-snip-

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is
*tremendous* pressure for kids to score higher on national math and
English tests. And that's why we're where we are today.

--
Ed Huntress


likewise, they could also be exposing kids, boys in particular, to
fine arts (painting, sculpture, music, etc.). i'd imagine that also
used to be part of a classical education. now there's too much
pressure to *not* teach kids about the arts. i think that's a damn
shame.
oh, and i took all the shop classes (except printing) and won the
"industrial arts award" when i graduated high school.

b.w.


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

Sunworshipper wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.


As my son was proceeding through public school system in California
I was wondering what was happening to the wood and metal shop classes.
His middle school was the last school in the district that still
offered metal and wood shop. When the teacher retired (and my
son moved onto high school), the middle school shops were closed.
They could not find anybody who had both a valid teaching certificate
for California and the technical arts option. I dug a little deeper
and said "why?". It turns out that only one teaching school down in
southern Cal. provided the training for teachers that wanted to teach
technical arts *and* very few people were enrolling in the classes.

So, when the technical arts instructor retires, the principal
posts an ad for a trained technical arts instructor, gets no
responses, and shuts the metal/wood shops down. A year or two
later, the equipment is auctioned off so the space can be reused.

Meanwhile, kids in school are going ga-ga over robotics and want
to build them and there are no facilities at the schools to build
them. It is kind of sad.

-Wayne


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

-snip-

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

I would say litigation.

-snip-

Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to industrial
arts teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial push for shop
classes was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need for jobs in
industry. It was to "build an appreciation" for "industriousness," and to
provide "cultural industrial education" as part of a broad curriculum. In
other words, it

-snip-

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is *tremendous*
pressure for kids to score higher on national math and English tests. And
that's why we're where we are today.

--
Ed Huntress


likewise, they could also be exposing kids, boys in particular, to fine
arts (painting, sculpture, music, etc.). i'd imagine that also used to be
part of a classical education. now there's too much pressure to *not*
teach kids about the arts. i think that's a damn shame.


I agree.

oh, and i took all the shop classes (except printing) and won the
"industrial arts award" when i graduated high school.

b.w.



  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
mac mac is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 12, 5:18*pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

...







-snip-

When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost
the
only useful education we got.


I would say litigation.


-snip-

Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to
industrial arts teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial
push for shop classes was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need
for jobs in industry. It was to "build an appreciation" for
"industriousness," and to provide "cultural industrial education" as
part of a broad curriculum. In other words, it

-snip-

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is
*tremendous* pressure for kids to score higher on national math and
English tests. And that's why we're where we are today.


--
Ed Huntress


likewise, they could also be exposing kids, boys in particular, to
fine arts (painting, sculpture, music, etc.). *i'd imagine that also
used to be part of a classical education. *now there's too much
pressure to *not* teach kids about the arts. *i think that's a damn
shame.
oh, and i took all the shop classes (except printing) and won the
"industrial arts award" when i graduated high school.

b.w.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


http://www.answers.com/topic/vocatio...on-act-of-1917
A Review of Federal Vocational-Education Legislation 1862-1963
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1475196

I finish my Apprenticeship as a machinist in the fifties. In 1972
after working more than 15 years in the trade, Philadelphia was
opening three dedicate Vocational plants. Test was given for all
craftspeople needed.
The Vocational legislation required that to teach Voc-Ed, 15 years in
a trade is required We would be hired to teach at the level of pay
that our years of work experience brought to the teaching position. We
receive a temporary certification with the promise that we would
enroll in the certifying college and complete the required courses in
10 years.
The industrial Art teachers and the unions hated this and use many
methods to get their members into the positions.
One of the classes that I took, an introduction to Voc-Ed, it was said
that prior to World War one, most of the craftsmen was born in Europe.
WW1 stop the flow and the Legislators felt that the way to train US
craftsmen was to use experience craftsperson.
The Union got their way and I was on the list as a sub for a few years
and was promoted on my night job and didn't follow through.
billcotton.com
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Funny thing about "higher" education:
You can't do a goddamm thing with it, in actuality, but it does open
doors, ups the salary ante.
Higher ed is like a mental hazing.
The most useless people on earth are Manhattan's higher-educated echelon.
But, with pretty good paychecks.
--
EA


I assume you're talking about financial execs. Actually, they're very
useful, if a greedy lot by nature. The trouble is there are so many crooks
among them.

Otherwise, Manhattan's "higher-educated echelon," in business, the arts,
publishing, and so on are mostly useful. That's why they're paid well.

--
Ed Huntress


  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On 2010-06-12, Existential Angst wrote:
"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Funny thing about "higher" education:
You can't do a goddamm thing with it, in actuality, but it does open
doors, ups the salary ante.
Higher ed is like a mental hazing.
The most useless people on earth are Manhattan's higher-educated echelon.
But, with pretty good paychecks.


Why, I respectfully disagree. I use a bunch of things I learned in
higher ed, at work.

i
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

Ignoramus1737 wrote:

Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.


I took industrial arts many years ago until a drunk driver wiped out David Blume, my
instructor, and his family. He managed to instill an interest in using my brains and
hands to make things before his life was ended way too short.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.


I'm a big fan of education when it encompasses real things like math, physics,
engineering, chemistry, and medical related activities. Fuzzy things like polysci and the
boutique activities like race history and other non core liberal arts crap do not seem
worth the expense


Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Thinking people need outlets to channel their creative energies. Using your brain in a
non working environment keeps your mind agile and is a healthy form of relaxation.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"William Wixon" wrote:

oh, and i took all the shop classes (except printing) and won the
"industrial arts award" when i graduated high school.



Didn't win awards, but I've set type on a platten style printing press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pl...ting_press.jpg

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"William Wixon" wrote:

oh, and i took all the shop classes (except printing) and won the
"industrial arts award" when i graduated high school.



Didn't win awards, but I've set type on a platten style printing
press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pl...ting_press.jpg

Wes


i did that when i got to college.

b.w.


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On 2010-06-12, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus1737 wrote:

Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.


I took industrial arts many years ago until a drunk driver wiped out
David Blume, my instructor, and his family. He managed to instill
an interest in using my brains and hands to make things before his
life was ended way too short.


You were one of the lucky ones who were exposed to this sort of stuff,
almost by accident.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.


I'm a big fan of education when it encompasses real things like
math, physics, engineering, chemistry, and medical related
activities. Fuzzy things like polysci and the boutique activities
like race history and other non core liberal arts crap do not seem
worth the expense


I agree. I learned computer science.


Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Thinking people need outlets to channel their creative energies.
Using your brain in a non working environment keeps your mind agile
and is a healthy form of relaxation.


I agree, plus it is great to learn from you and others who know so
much more than me. I put the head on the CNC mill today, it was a pain
due to shop crane's legs getting in the way of the mill's base. I had
to shorten the legs and put a lot of weight on the back of the crane.

i
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


Funny thing about "higher" education:
You can't do a goddamm thing with it, in actuality, but it does open
doors, ups the salary ante.
Higher ed is like a mental hazing.
The most useless people on earth are Manhattan's higher-educated echelon.
But, with pretty good paychecks.
--
EA


I assume you're talking about financial execs. Actually, they're very
useful, if a greedy lot by nature. The trouble is there are so many crooks
among them.

Otherwise, Manhattan's "higher-educated echelon," in business, the arts,
publishing, and so on are mostly useful. That's why they're paid well.


They really aren't doing anything any different than what John Gotti or 50c
or P Diddly are doing.
Once you embrace a system, you just have to be sufficiently weasely to ride
its coattails, or climb up a bit and suck on its tits. But no biting.....

Remember Trading Places (Eddie Murphy).
--
EA


--
Ed Huntress



  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,104
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 12, 2:44*pm, Ignoramus1737
wrote:
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


With all due respect, Iggy, one of the reasons shop classes (and other
not-strictly-academic classes) are disappearing is because certain
parents are upset that their kids are reading "only" in the 92nd
percentile.

Just sayin'
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On 2010-06-13, rangerssuck wrote:
On Jun 12, 2:44?pm, Ignoramus1737
wrote:
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.

Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


With all due respect, Iggy, one of the reasons shop classes (and other
not-strictly-academic classes) are disappearing is because certain
parents are upset that their kids are reading "only" in the 92nd
percentile.


Percentiles are hard things. People whose kids are in 92nd percentile
make up only 8% of people. So they cannot be responsible for
everything. I personally would love to have a ship class at my kids'
school.

i


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Ala Ala is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Existential Angst wrote:


I think they might have been using "wasting your IQ" as in "wasting
money",
the concern being that mebbe you would soon not have much to function
with.
Talk about counselors with a crystal ball....



Yawn. All you do is talk about people's balls.


--


I think the food replicator wason the blink again

  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,146
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 12, 11:02*pm, (Al Dykes) wrote:
...
They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. *The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.
Al Dykes


Maybe that's because a good tech can assemble any circuit you can
design, but you certainly can sketch a part which is difficult or
impossible to machine.

I've seen MEs at the Bridgeport a lot more often than EEs soldering.

jsw, who does both.
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jun 12, 11:02 pm, (Al Dykes) wrote:
...
They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.
Al Dykes


Maybe that's because a good tech can assemble any circuit you can
design, but you certainly can sketch a part which is difficult or
impossible to machine.

I've seen MEs at the Bridgeport a lot more often than EEs soldering.

jsw, who does both.


But have you seen a North American Marketing Manager in a shirt and tie,
doing board-level testing and repairs on an EDM power supply?

That was me, at Sodick. g

--
Ed Huntress


  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,146
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 13, 11:30*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
But have you seen a North American Marketing Manager in a shirt and tie,
doing board-level testing and repairs on an EDM power supply?

That was me, at Sodick. g
Ed Huntress


Having both manual and people skills isn't that rare, Jan Paderewski
and Perez de Cuellar were diplomats and concert pianists, Eddie
Rickenbacker could build a car from scratch but took the head sales
position in his car company. I've seen some nice car restorations in
the barns of local politicians.

I think a lot of the people who mix those abilities become doctors or
naval officers, not to say that the inverse is true.

jsw
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jun 13, 11:30 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
But have you seen a North American Marketing Manager in a shirt and
tie,
doing board-level testing and repairs on an EDM power supply?

That was me, at Sodick. g
Ed Huntress


Having both manual and people skills isn't that rare, Jan Paderewski
and Perez de Cuellar were diplomats and concert pianists, Eddie
Rickenbacker could build a car from scratch but took the head sales
position in his car company. I've seen some nice car restorations in
the barns of local politicians.

I think a lot of the people who mix those abilities become doctors or
naval officers, not to say that the inverse is true.

jsw


naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.

b.w.




  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"William Wixon" wrote in news:Ct7Rn.30415$yx.16404
@newsfe13.iad:

naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.


He should have stayed with woodworking and kept out of politics where he
re-defined "inept".
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,146
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 13, 12:14*pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
I think a lot of the people who mix those abilities become doctors or
naval officers, not to say that the inverse is true.

jsw

naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.

b.w.


It's because they live on and have to thoroughly understand very
complex machines, and hopefully posess the leadership ability to be a
ship's captain.

In his books Admiral O'Kane described the details of this and
celestial navigation from when he was a WW2 submarine executive
officer:
http://www.maritime.org/tdc.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O'Kane

He was both the best and the second best torpedo shooter we had, the
catch being that as exec he did the aiming for the #1 scoring skipper
before he got his own boat. He attributed his skill to intensive
practice at judging the angle on the bow of the target, ie its course
relative to his position.

jsw
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,152
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On 13 Jun 2010 16:42:01 GMT, Eregon
wrote:

"William Wixon" wrote in news:Ct7Rn.30415$yx.16404
:

naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.


He should have stayed with woodworking and kept out of politics where he
re-defined "inept".

============
You don't get to be Navy nuclear command qualified by being
a no-load dick weed.

In hindsight, Carter's major problem was that he is a
competent and honorable man, used to dealing with competent
and honorable men. Thus he was at a severe disadvantage
dealing with the Washington establishment and their
symbiotic corporations, where deceit, corruption and
deception are a way of life and an art form. He compounded
this handicap by largely surrounding himself with competent
and honorable people rather than thugs, political
operatives, and "spin-meisters."


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,924
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


Ala wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Existential Angst wrote:


I think they might have been using "wasting your IQ" as in "wasting
money",
the concern being that mebbe you would soon not have much to function
with.
Talk about counselors with a crystal ball....



Yawn. All you do is talk about people's balls.


--


I think the food replicator wason the blink again



And he's always munching on something.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,146
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 13, 7:37*pm, "William Wixon" wrote:
...
i figured carter did'nt want to send men to their deaths (to "GO KICK
IRAN'S ASS!") because of pride or because he'd be voted out of office.
i think he did the honorable thing in iran. *and calling for americans
to make sacrifice... obvious, but something you can't say in politics.
b.w.


Carter was hotly and heavily involved in the rescue mission planning,
waaay beyond his competence as a submarine officer. I heard that first-
hand from one of the planners.

He was also the only president who bothered to learn the SIOP
procedures. Reagan just asked "What do I do now, General?"

jsw


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message ...
On 13 Jun 2010 16:42:01 GMT, Eregon
wrote:

"William Wixon" wrote in
news:Ct7Rn.30415$yx.16404
:

naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.


He should have stayed with woodworking and kept out of politics
where he
re-defined "inept".

============
You don't get to be Navy nuclear command qualified by being
a no-load dick weed.

In hindsight, Carter's major problem was that he is a
competent and honorable man, used to dealing with competent
and honorable men. Thus he was at a severe disadvantage
dealing with the Washington establishment and their
symbiotic corporations, where deceit, corruption and
deception are a way of life and an art form. He compounded
this handicap by largely surrounding himself with competent
and honorable people rather than thugs, political
operatives, and "spin-meisters."


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)


well put george.
i figured carter did'nt want to send men to their deaths (to "GO KICK
IRAN'S ASS!") because of pride or because he'd be voted out of office.
i think he did the honorable thing in iran. and calling for americans
to make sacrifice... obvious, but something you can't say in politics.

b.w.




  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

"William Wixon" wrote:

naval officers, first one comes to mind is jimmy carter, a skilled
woodworker.



At least he was good at something snort
  #38   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Carter was hotly and heavily involved in the rescue mission planning,
waaay beyond his competence as a submarine officer. I heard that first-
hand from one of the planners.

He was also the only president who bothered to learn the SIOP
procedures. Reagan just asked "What do I do now, General?"


Bush I (42) also tended to let his General's do their job. Seemed to have worked in
Desert Storm.

I'm not going to rehash Johnson and Vietnam, we know that was a failure.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 12, 9:36*am, "
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.


I think a big part of why the vocational arts have disappeared from
schools is cost. Can you imaging how much a machine shop classroom
costs to operate, compared to, say, English? Classroom budgets are
tight enough when you don't have to buy tooling and materials,
maintain and repair machines etc. etc..
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,104
Default Why are schools dumping auto shop, wood shop, and metal shop?

On Jun 13, 10:58*am, Ignoramus7400
wrote:
On 2010-06-13, rangerssuck wrote:





On Jun 12, 2:44?pm, Ignoramus1737
wrote:
Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.


I loved the class, though when we visited the actual factory where I
was told people with my training work, I realized that higher
education was the way to go.


Without that class, I am sure that I would not end up with a garage
full of machine tools.


With all due respect, Iggy, one of the reasons shop classes (and other
not-strictly-academic classes) are disappearing is because certain
parents are upset that their kids are reading "only" in the 92nd
percentile.


Percentiles are hard things. People whose kids are in 92nd percentile
make up only 8% of people. So they cannot be responsible for
everything. I personally would love to have a ship class at my kids'
school.

i


Without having any real data to back this up other than my own
observation of local government, I would venture to say that the
parents of those top 8% of students are likely the most involved and,
as such, have a disproportionate influence.

If you want shop class, then start making noise at the board of
education.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice on Shop vacs......and sawdust collector question. I need a shop vac badly and want to get a good one. [email protected] Home Repair 15 April 28th 10 04:26 PM
Shop Dogs and Cats - Bah! Shop Doves? Andy Woodworking 14 April 22nd 06 10:30 PM
Fun Plans for Metal and Wood shop RDJ Metalworking 0 June 12th 05 09:27 PM
Metal or Wood Lathe in home shop? [email protected] Woodturning 4 May 31st 05 06:16 AM
Shop equipment, and a machine shop class question.. Paul Metalworking 3 January 3rd 04 03:10 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"