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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On Sat, 29 May 2010 23:34:30 -0500, Ignoramus6711
wrote:

Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?


The recommended tightening torque for a 1/2-13 alloy SHCS is 120
ft*lb. I wouldn't be concerned about exceeding that by quite bit to
remove the screw.

I don't understand the point of the hex wrench welded to the pipe --
use the breaker bar.

--
Ned Simmons
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On Sat, 29 May 2010 23:34:30 -0500, Ignoramus6711
wrote:

Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i


If you bust the head...its not a big deal. They tend to shear at the
bolt, not the head body.

And you are going to need a pretty good sized pipe or breaker bar. Got
an impact..set it to tighten..tighten for a couple seconds, then back it
out.

Good luck.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

"Ignoramus6711" wrote in message
...
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?


Kroil, PB Blaster.
Build a little dam around the head to form a resevoir, let it soak
overnight.
Can make a big diff.
Also heat.
--
EA

i



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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On May 30, 2:34*pm, Ignoramus6711
wrote:
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

* * * * * *-. *(L key)
* *pipe * * |
============|=

* * * * * * ^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i


Impact Driver? - its whats used here traditionally for such jobs. And
keep on spraying it everyday with inox or whatever...
Dont know if you could get a 3/8th hex fitting for the impact driver,
maybe, maybe not. (ie, no idea)
Andrew VK3BFA.


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ansgst sez:

"Kroil, PB Blaster.
Build a little dam around the head to form a resevoir, let it soak
overnight.
Can make a big diff."

Good advice! Angst has described the proverbial "tinker's dam" made from clay or such.

Bob Swinney


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

"Ignoramus6711" wrote in message
...
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?



Hit them with kroil and let set for an hour. Then try an impact at a low
setting for an extended period. Also as Gunner suggested you might try
tightening slightly and then loosening... at a low setting on your impact.


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Things have helped me in some what similar situations.

1) Use a wrench like open end or crescent. On the allen wrench, right
next to the cap head. Pull on the wrench and the allen at the same
time.
2) Heat. Use a torch on the female threads. Might not be practical.
3) Get an allen tip, and then use impact wrench. For whatever reason,
impact wrenches work. Not the "hit it with a hammer" type. This kind:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...nch-45252.html
4) On GM brake pins, I've had to cut the head with a dremel, to make
the reverse of the ski slope head you seen in public bathrooms. And
then beat it out with hammer, cold chisel, and lots of heat.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus6711" wrote in message
...
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus6711 wrote:
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i


The first thing on my agenda, is to cut off a pc of the hex wrench that
fits--let it stick up a half inch or so---get it's attention with a 2lb
shop hammer---this compresses the rust under the head & the threads--you
can try the impact now, if no results then soak..Jerry
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 05/29/2010 10:58 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?


Kroil, PB Blaster.
Build a little dam around the head to form a resevoir, let it soak
overnight.
Can make a big diff.
Also heat.


Thumping the head of the bolt with a hammer may help to break the rust
-- this is trying to achieve the same thing that Gunner is recommending
with his suggestion to tighten with an impact wrench and then back it out.

I'd thump it hard with a little hammer -- 1 or 2 pounds -- not a big
hammer. If you want to move a bit of metal a long way, thump it hard
with a little hammer. If you want to move a lot of metal a little bit,
thump it softly with a big hammer. You've got a little bit of metal
that you want to make sure to move...

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 05/29/2010 09:34 PM, Ignoramus6711 wrote:
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i


Heat, cool, apply penetrating oil and wait, bang on it as you torque on
it. Repeat. I've never done the heating thing on a heat-treated screw
-- with cruddy old grade 3 bolts or equivalent it often helps a _lot_ to
get the bolt up to red or even orange heat.

Basically, rust is strong, but rust is brittle. If you can break the
rust that's holding it in there, then it'll come right out. All the
temperature cycling and beating on it and impact wrench stuff is to
break the rust. Penetrating oil weakens the rust and keeps it from
reforming bonds (does anyone know why?) so not only will it help
directly, but it also helps that if the rust particles are all
surrounded by penetrant when you break them, they'll stay broken.

With old cars, sometimes the best thing to do with a stuck bolt is to
twist the head off, get the part that it's holding down off, then figure
out what to do with the stub. That's a pretty extreme solution, though
-- usually the above is what you tell yourself after you torque on it
and feel that sick feeling of metal giving way.

If I were in your shoes and I stripped out the socket in the bolt, I
wouldn't hesitate to arc weld a right-sized bolt in there -- that'll
both give you plenty of meat to get a wrench on, and it'll give you some
pretty extreme temperature cycling on the bolt you're trying to get out.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
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You can usually rotate an over-torqued/stripped SHCS with an air
hammer. Sharpen a chisle blade, hold the corner of it at an off-center
drive angle and drive the cap CC.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Sat, 29 May 2010 23:34:30 -0500, Ignoramus6711
wrote:

Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i

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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus6711 wrote:

Any comments?



It has been 6 hours. Did you try anything that was suggested?

Worse comes to worse, you can drill a shcs out. Since my employer uses a lot of carbide
twist drills, I put an edge on one from the carbide scrap bucket and use that with a hand
drill. I often break them or chip them, but I just grab another and keep going.

Once the head is off, the remaining portion tends to be finger tight.

Wes
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JR North fired this volley in
:

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).


Iggy, those come out.

Soak them a couple of days in Kroil or whatever. Use impact-rated hex
bits. Support the head in case you break the bolts. If they all break,
it'll be easy enough to get the stubs out. You just don't want the head
tipping over unexpectedly.

Putting a pipe near the vertical section of an "L" key won't keep it from
twisting...

Same screws, same arrangement on my R2E4.

LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

Use impact-rated hex
bits. Support the head in case you break the bolts. If they all break,
it'll be easy enough to get the stubs out. You just don't want the head
tipping over unexpectedly.


I forgot to say, "but they won't break... the hex bit will break first"

LLoyd


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus6711 wrote:
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i



I would not weld the allen wrench. YOu will anneal it causing it to
bend. Just slip a pipe over it and pull. You will break the allen
wrench before the bolt will snap. Don't hit the bolt with a hammer
directly on the top or you will peen in the hex. If you want to hit it
cut a small length off your allen wrench and put that in and then hit
that. If you apply heat put the heat on the casting but not too much or
there is a slight chance it could crack from heat stress. It is
possible that there was locktite applied to the bolts. Heat will help
release the locktite. A breaker bar and a allen head driver will also
work but make sure it is a good quality tool (a life time warrenty
helps). Impact wrenches suck for taking off bolts unless you have a
large air supply and something that puts out at least 350 ft.lb. Don't
be afraid of breaking off the head of the bolt. If it ever did break you
just put a larger nut over the stub and weld it onto the stub. Two
things will happen, you will have a good grip on the stud, and the heat
from welding will loosen the grip of the stud in the thread and it will
turn out easily after it cools. If you break your allen wrench I have
a case of 3/8 of them made before there were china imports. I got them
at an auction 15 years ago. Its one of the most common sizes on larger
machines.



John
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Impact wrench with socket with 3/8" mounted in it. Standard stuff
in some sets. But a 3/8" with a hex key cut off.

Impact is like a black/orange hammer with shot in it...

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 5/29/2010 11:34 PM, Ignoramus6711 wrote:
Sorry for a bunch of posts at once. I worked all day long (almost) and
gave 1500 lbs of old junk to a scrapper.

Never had this problem before and I REALLY do not want to screw up.

The head of the Bridgeport CNC mill is attached to the turret with
four socket head cap screws, probably 1/2". They have a 3/8" hex hole.

All my attempts to unscrew them failed. I used a nice Unbrako L shaped
key.

Cannot do it without leverage.

With leverage (pipe) the key twists so much, that I really do not want
to push my luck.

I made a tool today from one 3/8" L shaped key: I drilled a
perpendicular hole close to the end of a pipe, and welded the straight
end of the key into that hole. So I can use the pipe as a lever to
turn the key without as much length to twist.

-. (L key)
pipe |
============|=

^ this end will go into the SHCS

I have no idea how will the key behave after having been welded.

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).

Any comments?

i

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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 2010-05-30, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
JR North fired this volley in
:

I also have hex keys that are driven with a 1/2" breaker bar or an
impact. I am really afraid that it may somehow break the SHCS, which
would be terrible considering its job (holding the mill head).


Iggy, those come out.


And I do not think that they are rusty, just very strongly torqued.

Soak them a couple of days in Kroil or whatever. Use impact-rated hex
bits. Support the head in case you break the bolts. If they all break,
it'll be easy enough to get the stubs out. You just don't want the head
tipping over unexpectedly.

Putting a pipe near the vertical section of an "L" key won't keep it from
twisting...

Same screws, same arrangement on my R2E4.


Lloyd, I meant to ask you, how do you like your R2E4? Are you using
the original control?

i
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 2010-05-30, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus6711 wrote:

Any comments?



It has been 6 hours. Did you try anything that was suggested?


No, I cannot get to the mill until tomorrow. Tomorrow may be the "big
day" when I put the mill on trailer.

Worse comes to worse, you can drill a shcs out. Since my employer
uses a lot of carbide twist drills, I put an edge on one from the
carbide scrap bucket and use that with a hand drill. I often break
them or chip them, but I just grab another and keep going.

Once the head is off, the remaining portion tends to be finger tight.


Wes, I hope that I just get it with the proper tool. I have a breaker
bar with a 3/8" socket and a piece of a 3/8" allen key to fit the
socket and the bolt. I think that it should work.

i
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 2010-05-30, john wrote:
I would not weld the allen wrench. YOu will anneal it causing it to
bend. Just slip a pipe over it and pull. You will break the allen
wrench before the bolt will snap. Don't hit the bolt with a hammer
directly on the top or you will peen in the hex. If you want to hit it
cut a small length off your allen wrench and put that in and then hit
that. If you apply heat put the heat on the casting but not too much or
there is a slight chance it could crack from heat stress. It is
possible that there was locktite applied to the bolts. Heat will help
release the locktite. A breaker bar and a allen head driver will also
work but make sure it is a good quality tool (a life time warrenty
helps). Impact wrenches suck for taking off bolts unless you have a
large air supply and something that puts out at least 350 ft.lb. Don't
be afraid of breaking off the head of the bolt. If it ever did break you
just put a larger nut over the stub and weld it onto the stub. Two
things will happen, you will have a good grip on the stud, and the heat
from welding will loosen the grip of the stud in the thread and it will
turn out easily after it cools. If you break your allen wrench I have
a case of 3/8 of them made before there were china imports. I got them
at an auction 15 years ago. Its one of the most common sizes on larger
machines.


John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.

i


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 5/30/2010 8:45 PM, Ignoramus28053 wrote:
On 2010-05-30, wrote:
wrote:

Any comments?



It has been 6 hours. Did you try anything that was suggested?


No, I cannot get to the mill until tomorrow. Tomorrow may be the "big
day" when I put the mill on trailer.

Worse comes to worse, you can drill a shcs out. Since my employer
uses a lot of carbide twist drills, I put an edge on one from the
carbide scrap bucket and use that with a hand drill. I often break
them or chip them, but I just grab another and keep going.

Once the head is off, the remaining portion tends to be finger tight.


Wes, I hope that I just get it with the proper tool. I have a breaker
bar with a 3/8" socket and a piece of a 3/8" allen key to fit the
socket and the bolt. I think that it should work.

i



I would use a socket head allen wrench and a hammer impact driver.
Worked great on my old Kawasaki bike. both twists and shocks the bolt
at the same time.
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus28053 fired this volley in
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Lloyd, I meant to ask you, how do you like your R2E4? Are you using
the original control?


Yep, although at some future date, I wish to upgrade it to EMC^2, add a
4th axis, and some other niggling things. But yes... it's a nice
machine. Kind of klunky and a bit prone to connector failures now and
again -- but I'm not doing any production work with it.

The only concessions to modernity on it right now are the changes I made
to the motor drive and power supply connections. I added a slow-start
VFC to the drive, and now signal reversals through the VFC, instead of
switch-reversing it, and speed is still selected pneumatically with the
variable sheaves, ranges manually by the shift lever. I also rewired the
PS for single phase -- so the whole machine is on 240V single now, and
most satisfactory.

The electronics are old, but pretty stable, the monitor has but a little
burn, and mechanically, the machine is almost brand new. Hardly any wear
at all in the ways.

I had some old scans of the manuals, and they were adequate for making
the changes, but recently Dave Blank dug up some original BP manuals, and
kindly sent them. So... I'm "fully equipped", except for having enough
of the 30-type tool holders.

LLoyd
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On 2010-05-31, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus28053 fired this volley in
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Lloyd, I meant to ask you, how do you like your R2E4? Are you using
the original control?


Yep, although at some future date, I wish to upgrade it to EMC^2, add a
4th axis, and some other niggling things. But yes... it's a nice
machine. Kind of klunky and a bit prone to connector failures now and
again -- but I'm not doing any production work with it.

The only concessions to modernity on it right now are the changes I made
to the motor drive and power supply connections. I added a slow-start
VFC to the drive, and now signal reversals through the VFC, instead of
switch-reversing it, and speed is still selected pneumatically with the
variable sheaves, ranges manually by the shift lever. I also rewired the
PS for single phase -- so the whole machine is on 240V single now, and
most satisfactory.

The electronics are old, but pretty stable, the monitor has but a little
burn, and mechanically, the machine is almost brand new. Hardly any wear
at all in the ways.

I had some old scans of the manuals, and they were adequate for making
the changes, but recently Dave Blank dug up some original BP manuals, and
kindly sent them. So... I'm "fully equipped", except for having enough
of the 30-type tool holders.


Cool. I do not have such a luxury of having a working control, and
will be retrofitting. My iron is also in a good shape with hardly any
wear.

Are your holders QC-30?

i
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus26677 fired this volley in
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Are your holders QC-30?


yep.

There seems to still be a decent supply of American made old and NOS
holders out there (but a bit pricey), and there are some nicely-made
Taiwanese clones available for cheap. But right now, I'm spending my
money on other things.

LLoyd
PS(it would be nice to build a tool-changer, too, but I don't know if
that's beyond my skills)
LS
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw


"Ignoramus28053" skrev i en meddelelse
news:-

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.


Heating to 300 F or 150 C will normally loosen the Loctite.



--
Uffe Bærentsen





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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Bolts removed. Head taken off the mill with only a slight mishap.

i

On 2010-05-31, Uffe B?rentsen wrote:

"Ignoramus28053" skrev i en meddelelse
news:-

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.


Heating to 300 F or 150 C will normally loosen the Loctite.



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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:19:44 -0500, Ignoramus26677
wrote:

Bolts removed. Head taken off the mill with only a slight mishap.

i


And that mishap was....?

VBG


Gunner


On 2010-05-31, Uffe B?rentsen wrote:

"Ignoramus28053" skrev i en meddelelse
news:-

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.


Heating to 300 F or 150 C will normally loosen the Loctite.




--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Ignoramus26677 fired this volley in
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Bolts removed. Head taken off the mill with only a slight mishap.


Um... HOW slight? What?

LLoyd
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On 2010-05-31, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:19:44 -0500, Ignoramus26677
wrote:

Bolts removed. Head taken off the mill with only a slight mishap.

i


And that mishap was....?


the head was dropped.

but it does not look like anything broke, it fell whe it was half
rested on a pallet, and i slopwed down its fall.

it disengaged from the forklift forks

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **


VBG


Gunner


On 2010-05-31, Uffe B?rentsen wrote:

"Ignoramus28053" skrev i en meddelelse
news:-

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.

Heating to 300 F or 150 C will normally loosen the Loctite.




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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus26677 wrote:


the head was dropped.

but it does not look like anything broke, it fell whe it was half
rested on a pallet, and i slopwed down its fall.

it disengaged from the forklift forks



I *think* I mentioned putting the other bolts back in.

Wes


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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

Ignoramus26677 wrote:
On 2010-05-31, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:19:44 -0500, Ignoramus26677
wrote:

Bolts removed. Head taken off the mill with only a slight mishap.

i


And that mishap was....?


the head was dropped.

but it does not look like anything broke, it fell whe it was half
rested on a pallet, and i slopwed down its fall.

it disengaged from the forklift forks

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **


VBG


Gunner


On 2010-05-31, Uffe wrote:

id skrev i en meddelelse
news:-

John, I think that I will get the bolts, I hope that they did not
locktite them, it is a scary thought. I have two options, one is that
pipe with a welded on bolt, and another is a breaker bar. I have a big
case of allen wrenches, maybe 40 lbs, so I have a lifetime supply of
any inch size I want.

Heating to 300 F or 150 C will normally loosen the Loctite.






On every bridgeport head that I have seen there is a tapped hole for an
eyebolt designed for lifting off the head. Also if you use a chain to
lift put a slab of wood between the chain and the forklift tong. It
will keep the chain from slipping. Glad you didn't get hurt when it
dropped.

John
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

What's that Lassie? You say that Gunner Asch fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 29 May 2010 22:35:30 -0700:

And you are going to need a pretty good sized pipe or breaker bar. Got
an impact..set it to tighten..tighten for a couple seconds, then back it
out.



I second this. If no impact tool, then tighten, loosen, tighten,
loosen. More torque each time.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
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Default How to remove a very stubborn and high risk socket head cap screw

What's that Lassie? You say that Lloyd E. Sponenburgh fell down the
old rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a
rescue by Mon, 31 May 2010 21:56:33 -0500:

(dan) fired this volley in news:4c046b20.3365293
:

I second this. If no impact tool, then tighten, loosen, tighten,
loosen. More torque each time.
--


Why would he want to do that when he's already gotten the bolts out?
LLoyd


When was that? How'd he do it?
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
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