After reading a number of on-line reviews, I was all set to send a 1.3 Ah
12V DeWalt drill battery pack off to MTO:

http://mtobattery.com/store/page2.html

when I saw the recent thread praising Primecell:

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

I did some careful comparisons, and thought I would pass along what I
found out.

I can buy a new Dewalt 2.4 Ah NiCd battery (the original was only 1.3 Ah)
for $50 with free shipping from Amazon Prime. The 1.3 Ah can be had for
$30, plus shipping.

The NiCd rebuild from Primecell is $33, and the NiMH is $47. Add $9
shipping to get it to them & $9 back (plus the hassle of packing &
shipping), and an "improved" rebuilt NiCd is $51. NiMH would cost $65,
and would get me "2 to 3" times the capacity in a smaller pack that the
new one.

MTO has a range of capacity options:
2.1 Ah = $27, 2.1 Ah (Heavy Duty) = $32,
3.3 Ah NiMH = $40, 4.0 Ah NiMH = $55

I like the fact that they state the capacity of the NiMH conversions.
Shipping is free for orders over $80, but I still have to ship out to
them. For one pack, the 2.1 Ah NiCd heavy duty rebuild would be $50, vs
$51 for unknown capacity from Primecell.

If I had a couple packs to deal with, I would probably go with MTO. For
one, I think I'll skip the shipping hassles & just buy the new DeWalt
higher capacity pack. The prices seem to have come down a lot. I think
the high capacity DeWalt pack was closer to $60 several months ago, and
list is supposedly $110. I have to wonder if the rebuilders are cutting
into the battery pack business enough that DeWalt & the like are feeling
the pinch & dropping prices.

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
list is supposedly $110. I have to wonder if the rebuilders are cutting
into the battery pack business enough that DeWalt & the like are feeling
the pinch & dropping prices.

More than likely its just the economy is cutting into overall sales.

Doug White wrote:
After reading a number of on-line reviews, I was all set to send a 1.3 Ah
12V DeWalt drill battery pack off to MTO:

I gathered your info into a spreadsheet.
This is an eye-opener with a 2:1 spread in dollars per watt hour.
The Primecell NiMh at U$0.39 per watt hour is the cheapest and the
MTO NiMh at U$0.81 per watt hour appears to be the most expensive.

I can see that the Primecell 3.3 AH NiMh (at U$0.61 per WHr) may be
the value leader, considering its high capacity and '$/WHr' price
near the middle of the range.

The MTO 'Regular Duty' 2.1 AH NiCd battery loses the competition
because it is near the top of the cost range (at U$0.09 more per WHr
than the 3.3 AH Primecell NiMh).


Alphabetically by Vendor

OEM or Total
Rebuilder Chem Voltage AHr Ship $ $ WHr $ per WHr Notes

Dewalt NiCd 12 1.3 0 30 30 15.6 0.52 Free shipping with Amazon Prime
Dewalt NiCd 12 2.4 0 50 50 28.8 0.58 Free shipping with Amazon Prime
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 50 59 25.2 0.43 Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 32 41 25.2 0.61 Heavy Duty. Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 27 36 25.2 0.7 Regular Duty. Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiMh 12 4 9 55 64 48 0.75 Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiMh 12 3.3 9 40 49 39.6 0.81 Return Shipping free for $80 order
Primecell NiCd 12 2.1 18 33 51 25.2 0.49
Primecell NiCd 12 2.4 18 33 51 28.8 0.56
Primecell NiMh 12 2.1 18 47 65 25.2 0.39
Primecell NiMh 12 3.3 18 47 65 39.6 0.61


Sorted in ascending 'dollars per Watthour' order

OEM or Total
Rebuilder Chem Voltage AHr Ship $ $ WHr $ per WHr Notes

Primecell NiMh 12 2.1 18 47 65 25.2 0.39
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 50 59 25.2 0.43 Return Shipping free for $80 order
Primecell NiCd 12 2.1 18 33 51 25.2 0.49
Dewalt NiCd 12 1.3 0 30 30 15.6 0.52 Free shipping with Amazon Prime
Primecell NiCd 12 2.4 18 33 51 28.8 0.56
Dewalt NiCd 12 2.4 0 50 50 28.8 0.58 Free shipping with Amazon Prime
Primecell NiMh 12 3.3 18 47 65 39.6 0.61
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 32 41 25.2 0.61 Heavy Duty. Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 27 36 25.2 0.7 Regular Duty. Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiMh 12 4 9 55 64 48 0.75 Return Shipping free for $80 order
MTO NiMh 12 3.3 9 40 49 39.6 0.81 Return Shipping free for $80 order

Please let me know of any errors.

--Winston

What's that Lassie? You say that Doug White fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:54:47 GMT:

The NiCd rebuild from Primecell is $33, and the NiMH is $47. Add $9
shipping to get it to them & $9 back.

It's been a while, but I think the shipping is included in Primecells
prices.


--

Dan H.

I recently sent two Festool NiCd battery packs to Primecell for rebuilding. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 to ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worked fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a bad battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost of the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, asking about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfriendly reply:
"There is clearly a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we offered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other problem - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present it has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pay for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, including the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we can't service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss.
We don't know what the cost of repairs will be without seeing both the battery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we don't fix."

Well, it was clearly NOT "a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fine. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along with some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wonderful reply:
"We just received your batteries. We opened the Festool battery and found that there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously rebuilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a customer service."
So Primcell essentially refused to consider the possibility (now a fact) that they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their communications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error.
And by the way, Primecell would not rebuild with NiMH batteries, but MTO did.
Please tell me why anyone would choose Primecell over MTO.

On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 3:00:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I recently sent two Festool NiCd battery packs to Primecell for rebuilding. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 to ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worked fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a bad battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost of the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, asking about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfriendly reply:
"There is clearly a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we offered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other problem - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present it has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pay for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, including the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we can't service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss.
We don't know what the cost of repairs will be without seeing both the battery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we don't fix."

Well, it was clearly NOT "a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fine. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along with some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wonderful reply:
"We just received your batteries. We opened the Festool battery and found that there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously rebuilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a customer service."
So Primcell essentially refused to consider the possibility (now a fact) that they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their communications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error.
And by the way, Primecell would not rebuild with NiMH batteries, but MTO did.
Please tell me why anyone would choose Primecell over MTO.

Thanks for that. I was getting ready to send some Bosch batteries out for rebuild. This will definitely figure into the vendor choice.

BTW, I recently bought some new Porter-Cable tools to augment the aging Bosch. WOW, the 20V LiOn drill and impact driver together weigh close to what the Bosch 18V NiCd drill weighs, and pack a huge punch. The technology certainly has improved over the years.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 3:00:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I recently sent two Festool NiCd battery packs to Primecell for rebuilding. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 to ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worked fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a bad battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost of the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, asking about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfriendly reply:
"There is clearly a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we offered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other problem - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present it has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pay for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, including the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we can't service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss.
We don't know what the cost of repairs will be without seeing both the battery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we don't fix."

Well, it was clearly NOT "a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fine. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along with some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wonderful reply:
"We just received your batteries. We opened the Festool battery and found that there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously rebuilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a customer service."
So Primcell essentially refused to consider the possibility (now a fact) that they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their communications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error.
And by the way, Primecell would not rebuild with NiMH batteries, but MTO did.
Please tell me why anyone would choose Primecell over MTO.

Thanks for that. I was getting ready to send some Bosch batteries out for rebuild. This will definitely figure into the vendor choice.

BTW, I recently bought some new Porter-Cable tools to augment the aging Bosch. WOW, the 20V LiOn drill and impact driver together weigh close to what the Bosch 18V NiCd drill weighs, and pack a huge punch. The technology certainly has improved over the years.

I've got a giant nicad pack made of F cells- been putting out feelers for
a sensible place to try out.

On 3/3/2016 4:15 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
....
The technology certainly has improved over the years.


Yeah and that has created a bit of a dilemma: does one buy quality tools
that will last forever, but are obsolete in 10 years?

I have scrapped a number of perfectly functional NiCad tools when they
needed new batteries simply because the LiIon are so much better. I
can't help but wonder if my nice Milwaukee LiIon tools are going to be
obolete-d by some new battery.

Bob

On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 5:28:38 PM UTC-5, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 3/3/2016 4:15 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
...
The technology certainly has improved over the years.


Yeah and that has created a bit of a dilemma: does one buy quality tools
that will last forever, but are obsolete in 10 years?

I have scrapped a number of perfectly functional NiCad tools when they
needed new batteries simply because the LiIon are so much better. I
can't help but wonder if my nice Milwaukee LiIon tools are going to be
obolete-d by some new battery.

Bob

Good question. The two Porter Cable tools cost less than $150 and replace the Bosch that cost well over $200, maybe 10 years ago. The Bosch still has lots of life in it, and will get some use in the shop, but it's unlikely to see lots of field work going forward.

In article ,
rangerssuck wrote:

The Bosch still has lots
of life in it, and will get some use in the shop, but it's unlikely to see
lots of field work going forward.

I replaced my Bosch 12V with a Ryobi 18 lithium. I had already gone with
new batteries in the Bosch once, and it was feeling a little tired
overall. I won't get it new batteries, but I will rebuild one of its
batteries into a 12V cord (the one upside of a 12V tool - easy power
options) and use it as a corded tool. The little green monster does way
better at the portable drill/driver job, and was not far off the cost of
another pair of old-tech batteries.

I did pretty much the same thing with my old Powerbook 170 when all the
various batteries had died and the power jack was wonky, too. There I
just cut off the power cord (fortunately of a style / vintage that
charged at operating voltage, pretty much) and made a hole in a battery
case (plus a power LED and a capacitor or two.) The "corded battery"
works just fine - I guess they built the battery contacts a bit better.
Of course the antiquity of the whole system is something of an issue 25
years later.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:24:13 -0800 (PST)
rangerssuck wrote:

On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 5:28:38 PM UTC-5, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 3/3/2016 4:15 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
...
[...]

Yeah and that has created a bit of a dilemma: does one buy quality tools
that will last forever, but are obsolete in 10 years?

I have scrapped a number of perfectly functional NiCad tools when they
needed new batteries simply because the LiIon are so much better. I
can't help but wonder if my nice Milwaukee LiIon tools are going to be
obolete-d by some new battery.

Bob

Good question. The two Porter Cable tools cost less than $150 and replace the Bosch that cost well over $200, maybe 10 years ago. The Bosch still has lots of life in it, and will get some use in the shop, but it's unlikely to see lots of field work going forward.

I put my money into good extension cords, AC Inverter and there is
always the generator I use for power failures if I get desperate...

I do have a small Lithium drill I paid ~$30 for a bit over a year ago.
It replaced a ~25 year old Craftsman/Skil Nicad Drill I got when I was
still working full time. Even then it was usually more practical to
just run an extension cord and be done with it. New drill works good for
making pilot holes. Then I use hand tools to fill the holes...

All my old power tools with cords from the last 50 years still work
great. They haven't obsoleted 120 vac yet ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

For those interested in Primecell vs MTO Battery, you can read my entire email correspondence with Primecell he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/os1k0ag9ncf6g5f/one.pdf?dl=0

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:30:21 -0800 (PST), wrote:

For those interested in Primecell vs MTO Battery, you can read my entire email correspondence with Primecell he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/os1k0ag9ncf6g5f/one.pdf?dl=0

I didn't like Primecell's prices before, and I sure don't like their
attitude now.

Got a URL for MTO?

--
Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at
a distance but to do what lies clearly at hand.
--Thomas Carlyle

On 3/3/2016 2:00 PM, wrote:
I recently sent two Festool NiCd battery packs to Primecell for rebuilding. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 to ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worked fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a bad battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost of the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, asking about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfriendly reply:
"There is clearly a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we offered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other problem - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present it has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pay for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, including the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we can't service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss.
We don't know what the cost of repairs will be without seeing both the battery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we don't fix."

Well, it was clearly NOT "a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fine. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along with some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wonderful reply:
"We just received your batteries. We opened the Festool battery and found that there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously rebuilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a customer service."
So Primcell essentially refused to consider the possibility (now a fact) that they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their communications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error.
And by the way, Primecell would not rebuild with NiMH batteries, but MTO did.
Please tell me why anyone would choose Primecell over MTO.


Several years ago I had MTO rebuild a couple of Dewalt batteries,
They sent back batteries that were not my original cases. I don't
consider that a problem, but, one of the cases was just a tiny bit
shorter and didn't make a proper connection to my chargers.
MTO sent me another Battery at no charge.
The bent over backwards to make it right.
I second your idea that they are customer oriented.

That said, I have and would still just buy new batteries even though
they are not as good and don't last as long. By the time you paying
shipping and the cost of a rebuild, it's almost the cost of two off
brand batteries from Amazon.
Mikek

mtobattery.com
Great Outfit.

On Saturday, September 5, 2009 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-4, Doug White wrote:
After reading a number of on-line reviews, I was all set to send a 1.3 Ah
12V DeWalt drill battery pack off to MTO:

http://mtobattery.com/store/page2.html

when I saw the recent thread praising Primecell:

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

I did some careful comparisons, and thought I would pass along what I
found out.

I can buy a new Dewalt 2.4 Ah NiCd battery (the original was only 1.3 Ah)
for $50 with free shipping from Amazon Prime. The 1.3 Ah can be had for
$30, plus shipping.

The NiCd rebuild from Primecell is $33, and the NiMH is $47. Add $9
shipping to get it to them & $9 back (plus the hassle of packing &
shipping), and an "improved" rebuilt NiCd is $51. NiMH would cost $65,
and would get me "2 to 3" times the capacity in a smaller pack that the
new one.

MTO has a range of capacity options:
2.1 Ah = $27, 2.1 Ah (Heavy Duty) = $32,
3.3 Ah NiMH = $40, 4.0 Ah NiMH = $55

I like the fact that they state the capacity of the NiMH conversions.
Shipping is free for orders over $80, but I still have to ship out to
them. For one pack, the 2.1 Ah NiCd heavy duty rebuild would be $50, vs
$51 for unknown capacity from Primecell.

If I had a couple packs to deal with, I would probably go with MTO. For
one, I think I'll skip the shipping hassles & just buy the new DeWalt
higher capacity pack. The prices seem to have come down a lot. I think
the high capacity DeWalt pack was closer to $60 several months ago, and
list is supposedly $110. I have to wonder if the rebuilders are cutting
into the battery pack business enough that DeWalt & the like are feeling
the pinch & dropping prices.

Doug White

whoever deals with primll will be dealing with a crazy people

On Saturday, September 5, 2009 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-4, Doug White wrote:
After reading a number of on-line reviews, I was all set to send a 1.3 Ah
12V DeWalt drill battery pack off to MTO:

http://mtobattery.com/store/page2.html

when I saw the recent thread praising Primecell:

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

I did some careful comparisons, and thought I would pass along what I
found out.

I can buy a new Dewalt 2.4 Ah NiCd battery (the original was only 1.3 Ah)
for $50 with free shipping from Amazon Prime. The 1.3 Ah can be had for
$30, plus shipping.

The NiCd rebuild from Primecell is $33, and the NiMH is $47. Add $9
shipping to get it to them & $9 back (plus the hassle of packing &
shipping), and an "improved" rebuilt NiCd is $51. NiMH would cost $65,
and would get me "2 to 3" times the capacity in a smaller pack that the
new one.

MTO has a range of capacity options:
2.1 Ah = $27, 2.1 Ah (Heavy Duty) = $32,
3.3 Ah NiMH = $40, 4.0 Ah NiMH = $55

I like the fact that they state the capacity of the NiMH conversions.
Shipping is free for orders over $80, but I still have to ship out to
them. For one pack, the 2.1 Ah NiCd heavy duty rebuild would be $50, vs
$51 for unknown capacity from Primecell.

If I had a couple packs to deal with, I would probably go with MTO. For
one, I think I'll skip the shipping hassles & just buy the new DeWalt
higher capacity pack. The prices seem to have come down a lot. I think
the high capacity DeWalt pack was closer to $60 several months ago, and
list is supposedly $110. I have to wonder if the rebuilders are cutting
into the battery pack business enough that DeWalt & the like are feeling
the pinch & dropping prices.

Doug White

the primecell people are crazy nuts