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Default Gas powered battery charger.


I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


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Default Gas powered battery charger.

On Feb 8, 8:17*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.

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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 01:24:35 -0800 (PST), wrote:

A good idea, BUT....work out how much motor power you would need to
get the alternator up to 70 amps.


That's easy. 70A at 14.4V is about 1kW, or 1.4 HP. An alternator has
pretty good efficiency, so a lawnmower engine should be just fine.

..not a small motor.


My model helicopter engine weighs 406 grams, and produces 1.9 HP. I'm
not saying it would be suitable for this application, I'm just saying
the engine shouldn't need to be all that huge.

...and coupling
it to the motor is no trivial matter either - but thats OK,


In the car, the alternator is driven by a simple belt. If you can find
or make a suitable pulley for the engine, it seems quite doable.

no way
could you charge a battery at 70 amps anyway.


In the car, the battery IS charged by the alternator. You'd just have
to be careful if you use the alternator from a large car to charge a
small battery. Back off the throttle some, and you should be fine.

btw, you
would need to work out pulley ratios to get the alternator into its
power band without revving the motor to blazes -


The alternator does have a maximum limit. It also has a lower limit
where it will not produce any power at all. The lower the speed, the
less power it will deliver.

and some sort of
governor..(only if your obsessive...)


In the car, the alternator works over a wide rev range. As long as you
stay below the maximum rated speed, you should be quite safe. If you
fit an amperemeter, you will be able to see what's going on.
--
RoRo
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wrote in message news:d82ffccf-fad7-4a08-a367-
...

A good idea, BUT....work out how much motor power you would need to
get the alternator up to 70 amps...not a small motor....and coupling
it to the motor is no trivial matter either - but thats OK, no way
could you charge a battery at 70 amps anyway...let us know how you get
on, if you have the bits lying around then it would be fun - btw, you
would need to work out pulley ratios to get the alternator into its
power band without revving the motor to blazes - and some sort of
governor..(only if your obsessive...)

Andrew VK3BFA.


I was thinking about something like a 3hp Briggs & Stratton that already has
a governor. IIRC, those engines have a maximum RPM around 3600 so if I used
a pulley twice the diameter of the alternator pulley it would give me up to
7200 RPM on the alternator. All my autos that have tachometers show from
2000 to 2600 rpm at 60mph. The engine pulley looks (haven't measured yet)
to be 3 to 4 times the diameter of the alternator pulley. That would spin
the alternator maybe 6000 to 10,000 rpm. In my car when I have the lights
and heater on, at idle the lights dim and the fan slows, when I get over
about 1200 rpm things pick back up.

For experimenting, I could get a used lawn mower and cut the engine hole
pattern in a flat plate. Then cut holes for mounting the alternator and
install pulley and belt. It would be ideal if I could find a mower with a
deck flat enough to mount the alternator, kind of like a riding mower mount.

It would be nice to find a smaller lighter motor maybe perhaps a chainsaw
engine or good weed eater engine.

RogerN


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Default Gas powered battery charger.

On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:

I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.


Yes, typical alternators for passenger cars range from 50A, maybe even
less for the smallest cars, up to 70-80A, maybe as high as 100A.
Larger than that, and they'll most likely be 24V.

Note that some car manufacturers equip their cars with different
alternator sizes depending on which part of the world they will be
sold in. If you're looking for a big one, look for cars imported from
a cold part of the world.

Remember that an automotive alternator can be damaged if it is run
without a battery connected.

Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...


Check the specs for those types of batteries. They may not be able to
handle as high a charge current as a starter battery.
--
RoRo


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Default Gas powered battery charger.

"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1. Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes
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Default Gas powered battery charger.

RogerN wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


I was pretty serious about doing one of those a few years ago for
a power unit that would be used to run power tools in remote
locations. The volunteer group we work with had been building
some bridges etc. on trails in remote locations, but I never
got a roundtuit. :-) I wanted it to be realy light weight to
make it practical to carry and only needed enough power to run
a few power tools. I had a device once on a car, Subaru, that
made the alternator put out 110 V which I actually used to run
a power saw so I know it is practical.
Good luck and let us know if and when you get it going.
...lew...
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"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1.
Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes


Saw it happen on a 55 chevy street drag car. Missed a shift and it fragged
the alternator
pulley. Threw 4 or 5 chunks through the fiberglass hood. Alternator RPM
was probably
15,000 to 18,000 when it de-constructed.


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Default Gas powered battery charger.

I'm just finishing up a class demo unit that uses a 62 amp Motorcraft
alternator. I wasn't happy with the positive ground on that unit but was
cheap and had the external voltage regulator that I needed. 62 amps at
13 to 14 volts is around 850 watts. Calcs out to 1.15 HP theoretical.
Any of the 3 to 5 hp B&S, Tecumseh, import specials, etc should work
fine at full load.

To build what you are talking about, I'd get Delco alternator with the
internal voltage regulator. If you happen to have a used one, the
rebuild kits run about $15. Amperage varies considerably from a low of
about 60 amps to around 135 on the units used on police cruisers. You
probably don't care, you don't really want to charge the battery much
faster than 30 to 50 amps.

As for how fast to spin the alternator: Here is the measured performance
curve for the Motorcraft alternator: (rebuilt unit came with a printed
inspection tag)

rpm amps
1600 11
2000 24
2500 43
3000 53
4000 61
5000 65

I'd expect the Delco units to be similar so driving it 1:1 from a
3600rpm lawnmower engine would be fine. I've tried both belt drive and
direct drive using a Lovejoy connector. Using the Lovejoy required some
special machining to get it to connect up: the armature is axilially
posititioned in the bearing by the nut on the pulley. I think I'd stay
with a belt drive for your application.

On gotcha to keep in mind: the case on the alternator is one side of the
circuit. It's tough to make a mounting where the chassis of your
charging rig is not grounded to the case of the alternator. If all the
batteries and equipment you work with are negative ground, should not be
an issue. But if you have an old positive ground vehicle or one with
multiple batteries in series, you really have to watch where you set up
the charging rig.

And a last thought: there are some aftermarket add on boxes that use a
different voltage regulation curve to get 120 volt power out. Really
trashy frequency and voltage regulation but they will run a small
universal drill. These are pretty much gone now, the decent 12 volt
inverters are much more user friendly.

Have fun!

RogerN wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


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"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I'm just finishing up a class demo unit that uses a 62 amp Motorcraft
alternator. I wasn't happy with the positive ground on that unit but was
cheap and had the external voltage regulator that I needed. 62 amps at 13
to 14 volts is around 850 watts. Calcs out to 1.15 HP theoretical. Any of
the 3 to 5 hp B&S, Tecumseh, import specials, etc should work fine at full
load.

To build what you are talking about, I'd get Delco alternator with the
internal voltage regulator. If you happen to have a used one, the rebuild
kits run about $15. Amperage varies considerably from a low of about 60
amps to around 135 on the units used on police cruisers. You probably
don't care, you don't really want to charge the battery much faster than
30 to 50 amps.


I have a Ford F350 with a 7.3L Diesel and 2 batteries. On a cold icy snowy
morning I decided to try to drive it to work (4X4) and the batteries were
too low to get it started. I charged it with my plug in charger but it took
a good while to get enough charge to start. I thought if I had a gas
powered alternator charger I could use it if I had trouble starting the
truck after work. I haven't tried one but I have doubts about those jump
starters being able to get the diesel running in cold weather.

Thanks for the information on the alternator, maybe I should select a pulley
to give 5000 alternator RPM at 3600 motor RPM, giving maximum alternator
output at maximum motor RPM.

RogerN

snip




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On Feb 8, 4:07 pm, RoyJ wrote:


And a last thought: there are some aftermarket add on boxes that use a
different voltage regulation curve to get 120 volt power out. Really
trashy frequency and voltage regulation but they will run a small
universal drill. These are pretty much gone now, the decent 12 volt
inverters are much more user friendly.

Have fun!


Have a look at http://islandcastaway.com/stuff/wind...%20Secrets.htm

As long as you are building something, you might as well have it work
to run power tools with universal motors.

Dan
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Default Gas powered battery charger.

There IS one, and only one small gas generator already made that can
produce 70A DC. No longer made, now. I picked one up off Ebay last
year for $45. needed carb work, but worked well afterwards. All the
current crop of small gens all seem to do just 8A or so DC. Heres one
I butchered:
http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth/gen.htm
JR
Dweller in the cellar


On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:


I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
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Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:

I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.


Yes, typical alternators for passenger cars range from 50A, maybe even
less for the smallest cars, up to 70-80A, maybe as high as 100A.


GM alternators on most current models are 105 amp units. Trucks have 120
amp units. ALL of them are 3 phase AC units that use regulation and
diodes to create 12 volts.

You can use a custom regulator and have AC in just about any voltage you
like. Or you can also make a nice portable welder using them.

Larger than that, and they'll most likely be 24V.

Note that some car manufacturers equip their cars with different
alternator sizes depending on which part of the world they will be
sold in. If you're looking for a big one, look for cars imported from
a cold part of the world.

Remember that an automotive alternator can be damaged if it is run
without a battery connected.

Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...


Check the specs for those types of batteries. They may not be able to
handle as high a charge current as a starter battery.



--
Steve W.
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I'd be looking for an alternator off a police car or a large, maybe diesel,
truck or maybe a Ford F350 Camper Special. I have the Ford parked in my
drive. It carries two batteries. Ask at the auto parts store you should have
no trouble finding an alternator rated for at least 100 amps.
T

"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
news
RogerN wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable

output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and

battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an

alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and

the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor

battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


I was pretty serious about doing one of those a few years ago for
a power unit that would be used to run power tools in remote
locations. The volunteer group we work with had been building
some bridges etc. on trails in remote locations, but I never
got a roundtuit. :-) I wanted it to be realy light weight to
make it practical to carry and only needed enough power to run
a few power tools. I had a device once on a car, Subaru, that
made the alternator put out 110 V which I actually used to run
a power saw so I know it is practical.
Good luck and let us know if and when you get it going.
...lew...



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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:22:23 +0100, Robert Roland
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 01:24:35 -0800 (PST), wrote:

A good idea, BUT....work out how much motor power you would need to
get the alternator up to 70 amps.


That's easy. 70A at 14.4V is about 1kW, or 1.4 HP. An alternator has
pretty good efficiency, so a lawnmower engine should be just fine.

..not a small motor.


My model helicopter engine weighs 406 grams, and produces 1.9 HP. I'm
not saying it would be suitable for this application, I'm just saying
the engine shouldn't need to be all that huge.

...and coupling
it to the motor is no trivial matter either - but thats OK,


In the car, the alternator is driven by a simple belt. If you can find
or make a suitable pulley for the engine, it seems quite doable.

no way
could you charge a battery at 70 amps anyway.


In the car, the battery IS charged by the alternator. You'd just have
to be careful if you use the alternator from a large car to charge a
small battery. Back off the throttle some, and you should be fine.

btw, you
would need to work out pulley ratios to get the alternator into its
power band without revving the motor to blazes -


The alternator does have a maximum limit. It also has a lower limit
where it will not produce any power at all. The lower the speed, the
less power it will deliver.

and some sort of
governor..(only if your obsessive...)


In the car, the alternator works over a wide rev range. As long as you
stay below the maximum rated speed, you should be quite safe. If you
fit an amperemeter, you will be able to see what's going on.



Its very very easy to do

http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html

Use a GM 'one wire" alternator (has a built in voltage regulator) from
the wrecking yard, a horizontal gas motor and mount it all on a cheap
dolly for ease of moving around.

Ive seen a number of them used around used car lots as well.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."


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--Done frequently by 'newbies' at Burning Man. Noisy and inefficient
but cheap. Better long-term solution: go solar or windpowered with an
inverter. Costlier but lasts forever.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Do us a favor and rescue
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : a doggie or three...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:43:09 -0800, JR North
wrote:

http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth/gen.htm



NICE!!!

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:


I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


I did this about 20 years ago. Used a 3/12 HP Briggs engine and some
alternator that was given to me. No regulator though. I used a big
pulley on the engine to get the alternator spinning fast enough. I
supplied field current through a rheostat to get the desired voltage
at whatever load was on the thing at the time. If I was to do it again
I'd use a one wire GM alternator so that there would be good voltage
regulation. I had to reduce the field current manually as the battery
charged. I seem to remember that the 3/12 HP engine was underpowered
for the alternator I used which was (I think) a 35 amp unit.
ERS
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On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:

I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...


How would you deliver such a device to a stranded car?

--
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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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"Ignoramus24731" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:

I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable
output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and
battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an
alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and
the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery
on
the lake, etc...


How would you deliver such a device to a stranded car?

--


I wouldn't want it for a stranded car because you could just jump start the
car unless it's positioned where you can't get close enough to jump start.
My recent experience was that my truck was stranded at home and I had to
wait a while to get enough charge to get it to start (diesel pickup with 2
batteries). So I was thinking of buying one of those heavy duty battery
chargers but even that would be useless if you lost power, unless you have a
generator. For the price of a heavy duty battery charger I thought I could
buy a $100 Wal-Mart lawn mower, then with an alternator, belt, and motor
pulley I should be in the $200 range for a portable high current battery
charger. So, after the ice and snow and getting enough charge to start the
truck, I thought it would be nice to have a small gasoline powered charger
that I could put in the truck just in case the truck doesn't start after
work.

Other uses would include being able to take it along when fishing to
recharge the trolling motor battery and taking it to the R/C flying field to
recharge the battery used to charge the electric models. Also could be nice
for camping or anywhere else that 12V lead acid batteries need charged. One
of the websites I saw used one for charging their drag car between races.
From what I've been reading I should be able to make my own regulator
control to recharge other voltage vehicles like golf carts, electric fork
trucks, or whatever up to around 110V or so. I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.

RogerN




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On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:
I wouldn't want it for a stranded car because you could just jump start the
car unless it's positioned where you can't get close enough to jump start.
My recent experience was that my truck was stranded at home and I had to
wait a while to get enough charge to get it to start (diesel pickup with 2
batteries). So I was thinking of buying one of those heavy duty battery
chargers but even that would be useless if you lost power, unless you have a
generator. For the price of a heavy duty battery charger I thought I could
buy a $100 Wal-Mart lawn mower, then with an alternator, belt, and motor
pulley I should be in the $200 range for a portable high current battery
charger. So, after the ice and snow and getting enough charge to start the
truck, I thought it would be nice to have a small gasoline powered charger
that I could put in the truck just in case the truck doesn't start after
work.


A lot easier would be to buy a good DC power supply.

I have this one:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

(I am no longer selling them). Or a proper battery charger, should
cost you $100 or so used.

There are many battery chargers that have decent capabilities.

Is your system 12v or 24v. 24v may get you into realm of forklift
battery chargers.

Other uses would include being able to take it along when fishing to
recharge the trolling motor battery and taking it to the R/C flying field to
recharge the battery used to charge the electric models. Also could be nice
for camping or anywhere else that 12V lead acid batteries need charged. One
of the websites I saw used one for charging their drag car between races.
From what I've been reading I should be able to make my own regulator
control to recharge other voltage vehicles like golf carts, electric fork
trucks, or whatever up to around 110V or so. I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.


Considering all the time and various doodads, pulleys, switches,
guards, dolly, etc, I cannot see how you can make one cheaper than
$300-500, even without adding your time to the cost.

A used quality charger will cost you only $100 and will work great.

--
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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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Default Gas powered battery charger.

On 2009-02-08, Ignoramus24731 wrote:
On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:
I wouldn't want it for a stranded car because you could just jump start the
car unless it's positioned where you can't get close enough to jump start.
My recent experience was that my truck was stranded at home and I had to
wait a while to get enough charge to get it to start (diesel pickup with 2
batteries). So I was thinking of buying one of those heavy duty battery
chargers but even that would be useless if you lost power, unless you have a
generator. For the price of a heavy duty battery charger I thought I could
buy a $100 Wal-Mart lawn mower, then with an alternator, belt, and motor
pulley I should be in the $200 range for a portable high current battery
charger. So, after the ice and snow and getting enough charge to start the
truck, I thought it would be nice to have a small gasoline powered charger
that I could put in the truck just in case the truck doesn't start after
work.


A lot easier would be to buy a good DC power supply.

I have this one:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

(I am no longer selling them). Or a proper battery charger, should
cost you $100 or so used.


By the way. Another advantage of having a decent DC power supply is
that you can use it for a bazillion of other uses, such as plating,
derusting, running DC motors, etc etc.

They are not too expensive on ebay.

Here's a pretty extreme one 20v, 120a:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-6011A-20V-120...QQcmdZViewItem

I bought a 6269b power supply (0-40v, 0-50A) for $31 on ebay locally
to me (Fermilab used to dump their stuff on ebay).

This sort of stuff gives you a lot of versatility on one package,
takes a lot less space than a lawnmower engine with car alternator,
and is very clean.

You can charge your trolling motors from your car.

i

There are many battery chargers that have decent capabilities.

Is your system 12v or 24v. 24v may get you into realm of forklift
battery chargers.

Other uses would include being able to take it along when fishing to
recharge the trolling motor battery and taking it to the R/C flying field to
recharge the battery used to charge the electric models. Also could be nice
for camping or anywhere else that 12V lead acid batteries need charged. One
of the websites I saw used one for charging their drag car between races.
From what I've been reading I should be able to make my own regulator
control to recharge other voltage vehicles like golf carts, electric fork
trucks, or whatever up to around 110V or so. I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.


Considering all the time and various doodads, pulleys, switches,
guards, dolly, etc, I cannot see how you can make one cheaper than
$300-500, even without adding your time to the cost.

A used quality charger will cost you only $100 and will work great.


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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 05:20:14 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:


wrote in message news:d82ffccf-fad7-4a08-a367-
...

A good idea, BUT....work out how much motor power you would need to
get the alternator up to 70 amps...not a small motor....and coupling
it to the motor is no trivial matter either - but thats OK, no way
could you charge a battery at 70 amps anyway...let us know how you get
on, if you have the bits lying around then it would be fun - btw, you
would need to work out pulley ratios to get the alternator into its
power band without revving the motor to blazes - and some sort of
governor..(only if your obsessive...)

Andrew VK3BFA.


I was thinking about something like a 3hp Briggs & Stratton that already has
a governor. IIRC, those engines have a maximum RPM around 3600 so if I used
a pulley twice the diameter of the alternator pulley it would give me up to
7200 RPM on the alternator. All my autos that have tachometers show from
2000 to 2600 rpm at 60mph. The engine pulley looks (haven't measured yet)
to be 3 to 4 times the diameter of the alternator pulley. That would spin
the alternator maybe 6000 to 10,000 rpm. In my car when I have the lights
and heater on, at idle the lights dim and the fan slows, when I get over
about 1200 rpm things pick back up.

For experimenting, I could get a used lawn mower and cut the engine hole
pattern in a flat plate. Then cut holes for mounting the alternator and
install pulley and belt. It would be ideal if I could find a mower with a
deck flat enough to mount the alternator, kind of like a riding mower mount.

It would be nice to find a smaller lighter motor maybe perhaps a chainsaw
engine or good weed eater engine.

RogerN

A rotary lawn mower engine is NOT a good choice unless you install a
HEAVY pulley. The blade is the flywheel - and without it you will have
a BEAR of a time starting it, and it won't idle. Lawn mower engines
have lightweight aluminum flywheels. Tiller and snowblower engines
(and generator engines) have heavy cast iron flywheels.

Other than that, it will work.
Google "other power" and you will find a site dedicated to the
concept.
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:27:32 +0100, Robert Roland
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600, "RogerN" wrote:

I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.


Yes, typical alternators for passenger cars range from 50A, maybe even
less for the smallest cars, up to 70-80A, maybe as high as 100A.
Larger than that, and they'll most likely be 24V.


Lots of 115 amp rated auto alternators at 12 volt. Even a good number
of 135s. However, MOST are good for maximum output for only a very few
minutes before they start to overheat.

Note that some car manufacturers equip their cars with different
alternator sizes depending on which part of the world they will be
sold in. If you're looking for a big one, look for cars imported from
a cold part of the world.

Remember that an automotive alternator can be damaged if it is run
without a battery connected.

Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...


Check the specs for those types of batteries. They may not be able to
handle as high a charge current as a starter battery.

A properly regulated alternator will not put more power into a battery
than it wants to accept.

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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:58:29 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1. Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes

Almost impossible. Ever look at the rotor in one of those things? As a
rough guess, 25000 RPM MIGHT do it if the bearings didn't go first.


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In article ,
"RogerN" wrote:

I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.


Economical - pick up a free "broken" mower, which usually just needs the
snot cleaned out of the carb, rather than buying one. [or chainsaw or
weedwhacker or blower...]

Small - not too hard, if you get rid of the rest of the lawnmower and
make a frame to fit just the alternator and motor.

Light - well, here you'd want to look for a motor that's rather less
overkill for the job of running the alternator, so as to reduce the
weight and size of the biggest component. Unfortunately most common
engines smaller than the smallest-size pushmower engines are annoying
2-strokes.

However, if you were to do some crafty metalworking you could make a
nice little engine of exactly the size you want - and have some fun
shop-time to boot, while not spending too much money.

OTOH, for off the shelf (but not too economical, I'd guess) I wonder
what the bigger model airplane engines might do, power-wise. Hmm quick
look finds a 1.7 hp - but $450 - not too economical. Nice and small,
though.

If you have some really old junque I think the washing machine motors
(I've never seen a gasoline washing machine motor in person, but I
gather they were the tinkerer's engine of choice back in a day before
mine) would be about the right size.

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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:18:11 -0700, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

RogerN wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN


I was pretty serious about doing one of those a few years ago for
a power unit that would be used to run power tools in remote
locations. The volunteer group we work with had been building
some bridges etc. on trails in remote locations, but I never
got a roundtuit. :-) I wanted it to be realy light weight to
make it practical to carry and only needed enough power to run
a few power tools. I had a device once on a car, Subaru, that
made the alternator put out 110 V which I actually used to run
a power saw so I know it is practical.
Good luck and let us know if and when you get it going.
...lew...

110 volts DC though, so brush universal motors only, and NO variable
speed tools.
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"Ignoramus24731" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:
I wouldn't want it for a stranded car because you could just jump start
the
car unless it's positioned where you can't get close enough to jump
start.
My recent experience was that my truck was stranded at home and I had to
wait a while to get enough charge to get it to start (diesel pickup with
2
batteries). So I was thinking of buying one of those heavy duty battery
chargers but even that would be useless if you lost power, unless you
have a
generator. For the price of a heavy duty battery charger I thought I
could
buy a $100 Wal-Mart lawn mower, then with an alternator, belt, and motor
pulley I should be in the $200 range for a portable high current battery
charger. So, after the ice and snow and getting enough charge to start
the
truck, I thought it would be nice to have a small gasoline powered
charger
that I could put in the truck just in case the truck doesn't start after
work.


A lot easier would be to buy a good DC power supply.

I have this one:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html


A current limited voltage limited power supply would probably be OK for a
charger, but you'd still need a generator to make it portable.

(I am no longer selling them). Or a proper battery charger, should
cost you $100 or so used.

There are many battery chargers that have decent capabilities.

Is your system 12v or 24v. 24v may get you into realm of forklift
battery chargers.


My system is 12V but from what I've been reading I should be able to make a
regulator that will allow the voltage to be adjusted from around zero to
over 100VDC.

Other uses would include being able to take it along when fishing to
recharge the trolling motor battery and taking it to the R/C flying field
to
recharge the battery used to charge the electric models. Also could be
nice
for camping or anywhere else that 12V lead acid batteries need charged.
One
of the websites I saw used one for charging their drag car between races.
From what I've been reading I should be able to make my own regulator
control to recharge other voltage vehicles like golf carts, electric fork
trucks, or whatever up to around 110V or so. I just wish I could figure
out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.


Considering all the time and various doodads, pulleys, switches,
guards, dolly, etc, I cannot see how you can make one cheaper than
$300-500, even without adding your time to the cost.

A used quality charger will cost you only $100 and will work great.


That would certainly work but I'd also need a generator to get the same
functionality.

RogerN


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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:55:38 GMT, "Bill Marrs"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1.
Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes


Saw it happen on a 55 chevy street drag car. Missed a shift and it fragged
the alternator
pulley. Threw 4 or 5 chunks through the fiberglass hood. Alternator RPM
was probably
15,000 to 18,000 when it de-constructed.

ANd that was likely an aluminum pulley?? Not the stock one.
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On Feb 8, 4:46*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Ignoramus24731" wrote in message
On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:


I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable
output.

...I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.

RogerN


Lots of interesting ideas here. I've used a jump start battery pack to
start the truck when it had an excessive drain (stuck relay), run the
TV from a small inverter when the power was out, and power a winch
when I get stuck. It doesn't have the capacity of a gas generator but
it stores nicely behind the seat so I have it with me when the
generator is back home.

The Powermate emergency starter packss that are 2" square X 8" long
are even easier to store in the car. If you like to tinker they have
an inverter that bumps up the internal voltage so you could use one to
pump electricity "uphill" to fully charge one 12V battery from
another.

Jim Wilkins


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On Feb 8, 1:17*am, "RogerN" wrote:
I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.

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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:01:53 -0600, Ignoramus24731
wrote:


Considering all the time and various doodads, pulleys, switches,
guards, dolly, etc, I cannot see how you can make one cheaper than
$300-500, even without adding your time to the cost.


Blink blink......sounds like a challenge. Want to make a wee wager?
WEG.......

A used quality charger will cost you only $100 and will work great.


Having a handy 110vt outlet will cost considerably more out on a lake...

Gunner


"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:01:53 -0600, Ignoramus24731
wrote:

On 2009-02-08, RogerN wrote:
I wouldn't want it for a stranded car because you could just jump start the
car unless it's positioned where you can't get close enough to jump start.
My recent experience was that my truck was stranded at home and I had to
wait a while to get enough charge to get it to start (diesel pickup with 2
batteries). So I was thinking of buying one of those heavy duty battery
chargers but even that would be useless if you lost power, unless you have a
generator. For the price of a heavy duty battery charger I thought I could
buy a $100 Wal-Mart lawn mower, then with an alternator, belt, and motor
pulley I should be in the $200 range for a portable high current battery
charger. So, after the ice and snow and getting enough charge to start the
truck, I thought it would be nice to have a small gasoline powered charger
that I could put in the truck just in case the truck doesn't start after
work.


A lot easier would be to buy a good DC power supply.

I have this one:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

(I am no longer selling them). Or a proper battery charger, should
cost you $100 or so used.

There are many battery chargers that have decent capabilities.

Is your system 12v or 24v. 24v may get you into realm of forklift
battery chargers.

Other uses would include being able to take it along when fishing to
recharge the trolling motor battery and taking it to the R/C flying field to
recharge the battery used to charge the electric models. Also could be nice
for camping or anywhere else that 12V lead acid batteries need charged. One
of the websites I saw used one for charging their drag car between races.
From what I've been reading I should be able to make my own regulator
control to recharge other voltage vehicles like golf carts, electric fork
trucks, or whatever up to around 110V or so. I just wish I could figure out
a way to make it work in a small, light, and economical package.


Considering all the time and various doodads, pulleys, switches,
guards, dolly, etc, I cannot see how you can make one cheaper than
$300-500, even without adding your time to the cost.


Well, I have 3 engines floating around that would be canditates, as
well as about 5 alternators. And if I want to buy an old Delcotron I
can get one for $50 or less. I have an old set of bed-rails stashed in
the shop, so if I can't put one together for under $100 their's
something drastically wrong. I also have an engine that's WAY too big
- but have a generator that would be a good candidate for a 24 volt
system, or a welder, that would be about the right size for that 13HP
Kohler. Toal investment in all 4 motors is ledd than $75.

A used quality charger will cost you only $100 and will work great.


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"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1.
Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes


Did have a tile saw lose an armature piece. No blowup but the brushes
disappeared.


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"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1.
Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from
rpm?

Wes



FWIW, my car idles at 800 rpm, readlines at 7500. without measuring, I'd
agree with the aprox 2:1 ratio of diameters, so that suggests that on my car
at least, the alternator must be OK at 15K RPM.




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On Feb 9, 7:42 am, "Bill Noble" wrote:

FWIW, my car idles at 800 rpm, readlines at 7500. without measuring, I'd
agree with the aprox 2:1 ratio of diameters, so that suggests that on my car
at least, the alternator must be OK at 15K RPM.


True, but there is no need to speed up the alternator in this case.
With equal sized pulleys and the engine running at 3000 rpm, the
output will be the same as if it were in a car with the engine running
at a very high idle. Alternators will charge batteries when the car
is at a low idle.

Dan

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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:55:40 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Mach1" wrote:

Build a good cage around the alternator. At 10,000 rpm there could be
pieces going into earth orbit.


The ratio of the crank pulley to alternator pulley on cars is ~2:1.
Almost all IC auto
engines can hit 5000 rpm before rev limiting takes place.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had an alternator blow up from rpm?

Wes


Did have a tile saw lose an armature piece. No blowup but the brushes
disappeared.

Common on commutator motors and generators - but alternators are not
built that way.
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You have to watch the Ford units: the early ones had positive ground,
many of the later ones had external voltage regulator. I just prefer the
Delco units for ease of install for odd ball applications.

David Lesher wrote:
Some good ideas here. As suggested, you can hang an alternator off a
rotary lawn mower, and it's already got its own wheels. And there are
LOTS of abandoned lawn mowers. Take mine, please! Now, if you find one
with electric start....

But I also like the link to the guy selling the fits-all mounting plate.

In any case, you do want the alternator with an integral regulator. It's
also lots easier if you have a battery on the unit; both to provide
the needed excitation to the field and a low impedence load to the
alternator. The smallest lawn tractor battery will do.

There's a wide variety of alternators available at the auto boneyard;
case size is pretty much an indication of max. output.... If I recall,
Ford did things the opposite of GM, regulating the top end of the field
vice the bottom, but that shouldn't matter much.


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if you want something really small, my local has new gas string trimmers
for $50. Tiny engine, ~34 cc, about a horse, nice little centrifugal
clutch, About 10 pounds with gas tank. Direct couple to a junkyard
Delco, should be able to get it under 25 pounds, fit in a 12"x8"x8" space.

RogerN wrote:
wrote in message news:d82ffccf-fad7-4a08-a367-
...

A good idea, BUT....work out how much motor power you would need to
get the alternator up to 70 amps...not a small motor....and coupling
it to the motor is no trivial matter either - but thats OK, no way
could you charge a battery at 70 amps anyway...let us know how you get
on, if you have the bits lying around then it would be fun - btw, you
would need to work out pulley ratios to get the alternator into its
power band without revving the motor to blazes - and some sort of
governor..(only if your obsessive...)

Andrew VK3BFA.


I was thinking about something like a 3hp Briggs & Stratton that already has
a governor. IIRC, those engines have a maximum RPM around 3600 so if I used
a pulley twice the diameter of the alternator pulley it would give me up to
7200 RPM on the alternator. All my autos that have tachometers show from
2000 to 2600 rpm at 60mph. The engine pulley looks (haven't measured yet)
to be 3 to 4 times the diameter of the alternator pulley. That would spin
the alternator maybe 6000 to 10,000 rpm. In my car when I have the lights
and heater on, at idle the lights dim and the fan slows, when I get over
about 1200 rpm things pick back up.

For experimenting, I could get a used lawn mower and cut the engine hole
pattern in a flat plate. Then cut holes for mounting the alternator and
install pulley and belt. It would be ideal if I could find a mower with a
deck flat enough to mount the alternator, kind of like a riding mower mount.

It would be nice to find a smaller lighter motor maybe perhaps a chainsaw
engine or good weed eater engine.

RogerN


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What's that Lassie? You say that RogerN fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:17:57 -0600:


I've been thinking about mounting an automotive alternator on a small
gasoline engine to make a portable battery charger with respectable output.
The purpose would be to charge auto batteries when there are no outlets
around. Of course you could do the same thing with a generator and battery
charger but I think you can get perhaps 70 amps or more from an alternator.
It would have been nice this winter when we had the ice & snow storm and the
battery was weak on the seldom driven 4WD diesel truck. Also could be
useful for camping and boating, could recharge the trolling motor battery on
the lake, etc...

RogerN

You want the booklet "alternator secrets". I think I got mine from
Lindsey publications.

I built just what you described without it, but it would have been
easier with it. I put a large pulley on the engine shaft to add
flywheel mass. The donor engine was from a lawn mower, and it was
hard to get started with out the blade attached. Keep the RPM up to
keep the torque down. The engine shaft bearing wasn't made for a side
load. I used a large delco alternator with a built in regulator.

Grab the right kind of auto AC compressor and you can have portable
air too, if you have a horizonal shaft engine.

--

Dan H.
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