[Joseph Gwinn]

The latest experiment was to use a grooving tool bit that came with the
lathe. The business end is 0.205" wide, tapering to a neck about 0.75"
back, so the sides of the groove being machined are not also
re-machined, and minor inaccuracies of perpendicularity (of tool to
work) are not important. This toolbit was ground out of a 5/8" square
HSS bar.

If not in back gear, it squealed and chattered badly. With the back
gear, grooving was possible, and largely without chatter or squeal.

But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it wont move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Electricky Dicky]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:11:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it wont move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

Gunner
Cannot do that on my lathe the chuck would fall off G

Richard

[Wes[_2_]]

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

The latest experiment was to use a grooving tool bit that came with the
lathe. The business end is 0.205" wide, tapering to a neck about 0.75"
back, so the sides of the groove being machined are not also
re-machined, and minor inaccuracies of perpendicularity (of tool to
work) are not important. This toolbit was ground out of a 5/8" square
HSS bar.

That is pretty darn wide for your class of machine. (not knocking it since
it is my class of machine also). I'd thin it down a bit.

Wes

http://wess.freeshell.org/clausing/Clausing.html
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Wes wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

The latest experiment was to use a grooving tool bit that came with the
lathe. The business end is 0.205" wide, tapering to a neck about 0.75"
back, so the sides of the groove being machined are not also
re-machined, and minor inaccuracies of perpendicularity (of tool to
work) are not important. This toolbit was ground out of a 5/8" square
HSS bar.

That is pretty darn wide for your class of machine. (not knocking it since
it is my class of machine also). I'd thin it down a bit.

Well, it came with the lathe. Perhaps it was for the other, larger
machine. But it would have worked had the toolpost et al not tilted and
self-fed into the cut. And I had the same problem with a blade 0.125"
wide.

It's the same as one gets when climb-milling with a mill that has too
much backlash. Self-feeding causing the machine to bite off more than
it can chew.

Joe Gwinn

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.


Joe Gwinn

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:42:44 +0100, Electricky Dicky
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:11:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it wont move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

Gunner
Cannot do that on my lathe the chuck would fall off G

Richard


Thats what a hammer and a 2x4 are for,

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it




Joe Gwinn


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.

I did tighten the gib to the point of significant drag, at least at the
ends of the travel. The center is a bit looser, as would be expected
from the age of the machine.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it

It worked. A loose cross-slide gib is thus a good part of the problem.
The original gib is worn, leaving a sort-of groove. I don't recall that
the dovetails were that worn. Will have to look into this more deeply.

With the broad-faced grooving tool (0.205" wide), I cannot make a chip
thinner than 0.005" or so, and easily get to 0.010" and have seen
0.020". It appears that the elasticity of the machine is such that when
one cranks down sufficient to start cutting, once cutting commences the
cutting depth immediately becomes 0.005", because the tool force is now
down versus towards the spindle axis.

With the 0.125" wide cutoff T-blade, I get much the same effect, but was
able to cut a steel bar off without excessive self-feeding.

Joe Gwinn

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:49:25 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to the
bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide gibs
up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.

I did tighten the gib to the point of significant drag, at least at the
ends of the travel. The center is a bit looser, as would be expected
from the age of the machine.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it

It worked. A loose cross-slide gib is thus a good part of the problem.
The original gib is worn, leaving a sort-of groove. I don't recall that
the dovetails were that worn. Will have to look into this more deeply.

Depending on gib type, the gibs often wear before the grooves. Having
a reasonable sized shaper in the shop can allow you to make a
replacement gib. Or figuring out how to set one up on the surface
grinder.

I made one for the cross slide on a very worn Clausing 13x36
Chipmaster when I loaned it to a friend of mine.

With the broad-faced grooving tool (0.205" wide), I cannot make a chip
thinner than 0.005" or so, and easily get to 0.010" and have seen
0.020". It appears that the elasticity of the machine is such that when
one cranks down sufficient to start cutting, once cutting commences the
cutting depth immediately becomes 0.005", because the tool force is now
down versus towards the spindle axis.

With the 0.125" wide cutoff T-blade, I get much the same effect, but was
able to cut a steel bar off without excessive self-feeding.

Joe Gwinn


There ya go! Now that you know the reasons and the limitations of
your machine, you can work with it.

Always use as thin a cutoff tool as you can get, without undu
breakage. Its easier on the machine.

Grooving can be done with multiple dips of your thinnist tool. It may
not be as pretty..or do a finish pass with the wide one.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:49:25 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to
the bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide
gibs up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.

I did tighten the gib to the point of significant drag, at least at the
ends of the travel. The center is a bit looser, as would be expected
from the age of the machine.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it

It worked. A loose cross-slide gib is thus a good part of the problem.
The original gib is worn, leaving a sort-of groove. I don't recall that
the dovetails were that worn. Will have to look into this more deeply.

Depending on gib type, the gibs often wear before the grooves. Having
a reasonable sized shaper in the shop can allow you to make a
replacement gib. Or figuring out how to set one up on the surface
grinder.

I made one for the cross slide on a very worn Clausing 13x36
Chipmaster when I loaned it to a friend of mine.

It's my recollection is that only the gib itself had visible grooving.
I can sand it flat and put some shims behind it to get the overall
thickness back into range. Or get a new gib. One of the reasons I
chose Clausing is that parts are available -- expensive beats
unavailable.

But I don't have a shaper or anyplace to keep one. A surface grinder
would also work, if I had a place for it. Actually, I think one can
make a gib on a vertical mill (plus a little sanding/fitting), although
it will be a multistep process involving the manufacture of multiple
special jigs.

I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.


With the broad-faced grooving tool (0.205" wide), I cannot make a chip
thinner than 0.005" or so, and easily get to 0.010" and have seen
0.020". It appears that the elasticity of the machine is such that when
one cranks down sufficient to start cutting, once cutting commences the
cutting depth immediately becomes 0.005", because the tool force is now
down versus towards the spindle axis.

With the 0.125" wide cutoff T-blade, I get much the same effect, but was
able to cut a steel bar off without excessive self-feeding.

Joe Gwinn


There ya go! Now that you know the reasons and the limitations of
your machine, you can work with it.

For steel, the back gear turns out to be essential. Clamping the
cross-slide did not allow me to cut a steel bar off without chatter
except when using the back gear.

By contrast, cutting aluminum of similar size off did not require the
back gear. The chips were still relatively thick, so we are still
seeing the spring effects that prevent cutting very thin but wide chips.


Always use as thin a cutoff tool as you can get, without undue
breakage. It's easier on the machine.

I do have a thinner blade and will try it. Thinner blades ought to
allow one to cut thinner chips as well, as the force will be
proportional to the blade width.


Grooving can be done with multiple dips of your thinnest tool. It may
not be as pretty...or do a finish pass with the wide one.

To tell the truth, I've been doing it the hard way as a way to diagnose
the and fix the problems with and find the limits of the machine. It
has been very productive. Cutting steel off seems to be the acid test.

Joe Gwinn

[Ned Simmons]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:00:31 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.

Another option is to apply Turcite or Multifil to the gib. Ideally it,
and perhaps the dovetail, should be scraped to fit, but if you have
enough adjustment to add .015 to .030 to the gib you may get an
improvement by simply gluing on a strip of the stuff. I probably have
a scrap of thin Multifil if you want to try it.

--
Ned Simmons

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:00:31 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:49:25 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:17:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


But as the groove got deeper, and the diameter of the remaining stock
because small, the toolpost tipped more and more. Cutting was
intermittent, even under slow power feed. By hand, the chips were
0.203" wide and about 0.0045" thick. Eventually, the tool bit was
pulled under the workpiece, and the tip of the toolbit broke off.

While all this tipping was going on, I was feeling the lathe. It turns
out that it was the cross-slide (fixed angle, moves perpendicular to
the bed ways) that was loose, so I have been tightening the cross-slide
gibs up.

Joe Gwinn


In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing down
on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of pushing
the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might prove
difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.

I did tighten the gib to the point of significant drag, at least at the
ends of the travel. The center is a bit looser, as would be expected
from the age of the machine.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle with
a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it

It worked. A loose cross-slide gib is thus a good part of the problem.
The original gib is worn, leaving a sort-of groove. I don't recall that
the dovetails were that worn. Will have to look into this more deeply.

Depending on gib type, the gibs often wear before the grooves. Having
a reasonable sized shaper in the shop can allow you to make a
replacement gib. Or figuring out how to set one up on the surface
grinder.

I made one for the cross slide on a very worn Clausing 13x36
Chipmaster when I loaned it to a friend of mine.

It's my recollection is that only the gib itself had visible grooving.
I can sand it flat and put some shims behind it to get the overall
thickness back into range. Or get a new gib. One of the reasons I
chose Clausing is that parts are available -- expensive beats
unavailable.

But I don't have a shaper or anyplace to keep one. A surface grinder
would also work, if I had a place for it. Actually, I think one can
make a gib on a vertical mill (plus a little sanding/fitting), although
it will be a multistep process involving the manufacture of multiple
special jigs.

I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.

Its a heavily loaded part, under constant movement. Brass is sometimes
used on very small, lightly loaded machines, but they wear very fast.
Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze would be better, but they will still
wear faster than the cast iron gibs.

If Clausing has them..shrug..

Now the next thing to do, is take a gauge pin and actually measure the
inside of the dovetails themselves. If they are badly worn in the
middle..new gibs wont help much. Hence my comment about putting in a
easily tightened setscrew and using the compound for movement.

Shrug.

With the broad-faced grooving tool (0.205" wide), I cannot make a chip
thinner than 0.005" or so, and easily get to 0.010" and have seen
0.020". It appears that the elasticity of the machine is such that when
one cranks down sufficient to start cutting, once cutting commences the
cutting depth immediately becomes 0.005", because the tool force is now
down versus towards the spindle axis.

With the 0.125" wide cutoff T-blade, I get much the same effect, but was
able to cut a steel bar off without excessive self-feeding.

Joe Gwinn


There ya go! Now that you know the reasons and the limitations of
your machine, you can work with it.

For steel, the back gear turns out to be essential. Clamping the
cross-slide did not allow me to cut a steel bar off without chatter
except when using the back gear.

By contrast, cutting aluminum of similar size off did not require the
back gear. The chips were still relatively thick, so we are still
seeing the spring effects that prevent cutting very thin but wide chips.


Always use as thin a cutoff tool as you can get, without undue
breakage. It's easier on the machine.

I do have a thinner blade and will try it. Thinner blades ought to
allow one to cut thinner chips as well, as the force will be
proportional to the blade width.


Grooving can be done with multiple dips of your thinnest tool. It may
not be as pretty...or do a finish pass with the wide one.

To tell the truth, I've been doing it the hard way as a way to diagnose
the and fix the problems with and find the limits of the machine. It
has been very productive. Cutting steel off seems to be the acid test.

Joe Gwinn

Ill send you a chunk of Waspalloy...chuckle...the Ultra Extreme Acid
Test.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:00:31 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:49:25 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:21:20 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

[snip]

In this case, consider replacing a gib screw with a long setscrew,
tightening up that gib so it won't move, and use the compound feed
screw to make your cut off.

The gib screws on the 5914 push the gib lengthwise, versus pressing
down on the gib from the side, so this won't work. I'd be afraid of
pushing the gib in far enough to lock cross-slide in place. It might
prove difficult to unwedge it.

Then drill a hole in the side of the casting, tap and put in a socket
head capscrew as a lock.

I did tighten the gib to the point of significant drag, at least at the
ends of the travel. The center is a bit looser, as would be expected
from the age of the machine.


Next thing to do is crank in the crossfeed past centerline, put the
cutoff tool on the backside of the part, rightside up, and run in
reverse and see what happens

As an experiment, perhaps I can clamp the cross-slide to the saddle
with a C-clamp.

Nothing to lose. Try it

It worked. A loose cross-slide gib is thus a good part of the problem.
The original gib is worn, leaving a sort-of groove. I don't recall that
the dovetails were that worn. Will have to look into this more deeply.

Depending on gib type, the gibs often wear before the grooves. Having
a reasonable sized shaper in the shop can allow you to make a
replacement gib. Or figuring out how to set one up on the surface
grinder.

I made one for the cross slide on a very worn Clausing 13x36
Chipmaster when I loaned it to a friend of mine.

It's my recollection is that only the gib itself had visible grooving.
I can sand it flat and put some shims behind it to get the overall
thickness back into range. Or get a new gib. One of the reasons I
chose Clausing is that parts are available -- expensive beats
unavailable.

But I don't have a shaper or anyplace to keep one. A surface grinder
would also work, if I had a place for it. Actually, I think one can
make a gib on a vertical mill (plus a little sanding/fitting), although
it will be a multistep process involving the manufacture of multiple
special jigs.

I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.

Its a heavily loaded part, under constant movement. Brass is sometimes
used on very small, lightly loaded machines, but they wear very fast.
Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze would be better, but they will still
wear faster than the cast iron gibs.

If Clausing has them..shrug..

It's $153.65. I'm still thinking. It would be a lot of work to make
one, and I don't have a lot of free time. Could be worth it. And one
can easily blow that much on a few items of tooling.


Now the next thing to do, is take a gauge pin and actually measure the
inside of the dovetails themselves. If they are badly worn in the
middle..new gibs won't help much. Hence my comment about putting in a
easily tightened setscrew and using the compound for movement.

Shrug.

I will make the measurements.


With the broad-faced grooving tool (0.205" wide), I cannot make a chip
thinner than 0.005" or so, and easily get to 0.010" and have seen
0.020". It appears that the elasticity of the machine is such that when
one cranks down sufficient to start cutting, once cutting commences the
cutting depth immediately becomes 0.005", because the tool force is now
down versus towards the spindle axis.

With the 0.125" wide cutoff T-blade, I get much the same effect, but was
able to cut a steel bar off without excessive self-feeding.

Joe Gwinn


There ya go! Now that you know the reasons and the limitations of
your machine, you can work with it.

For steel, the back gear turns out to be essential. Clamping the
cross-slide did not allow me to cut a steel bar off without chatter
except when using the back gear.

By contrast, cutting aluminum of similar size off did not require the
back gear. The chips were still relatively thick, so we are still
seeing the spring effects that prevent cutting very thin but wide chips.

Always use as thin a cutoff tool as you can get, without undue
breakage. It's easier on the machine.

I do have a thinner blade and will try it. Thinner blades ought to
allow one to cut thinner chips as well, as the force will be
proportional to the blade width.


Grooving can be done with multiple dips of your thinnest tool. It may
not be as pretty...or do a finish pass with the wide one.

To tell the truth, I've been doing it the hard way as a way to diagnose
the and fix the problems with and find the limits of the machine. It
has been very productive. Cutting steel off seems to be the acid test.

Joe Gwinn

Ill send you a chunk of Waspalloy...chuckle...the Ultra Extreme Acid
Test.

Thanks, ... but steel is already plenty of Trouble.

Joe Gwinn

[Gunner Asch[_4_]]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:24:05 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.

Its a heavily loaded part, under constant movement. Brass is sometimes
used on very small, lightly loaded machines, but they wear very fast.
Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze would be better, but they will still
wear faster than the cast iron gibs.

If Clausing has them..shrug..

It's $153.65.


Cringe......

drop an email to and see if he has any parts
machines like yours that you could get a gib from.

Its still cheaper to drill and tap a hole in the side fo the slide and
install a socket head capscrew as a slide lock bearing on the outside
fo the current gib.

That worked quite well for me on a well worn Clausing Chipmaster.

Shrug..your machine.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

[Joseph Gwinn]

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:24:05 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

I wonder if gibs must be cast iron, or would brass suffice? I would
guess that if brass were best, brass would be used, and yet cast iron is
universally used.

It's a heavily loaded part, under constant movement. Brass is sometimes
used on very small, lightly loaded machines, but they wear very fast.
Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze would be better, but they will still
wear faster than the cast iron gibs.

If Clausing has them..shrug..

It's $153.65.


Cringe......

drop an email to and see if he has any parts
machines like yours that you could get a gib from.

My fear is that gibs from a parts machine will also be worn.


It's still cheaper to drill and tap a hole in the side of the slide and
install a socket head capscrew as a slide lock bearing on the outside
of the current gib.

That worked quite well for me on a well worn Clausing Chipmaster.

I do like the idea. I just looked -- there is plenty of meat and the
drilling and tapping job would be dead easy, as the compound is
rectangular, with machined surfaces all around.


Shrug..your machine.

I'll be doing some measuring, to see how worn the dovetails are. If
they are not that worn, then I'll probably get a new gib. If they are
worn, then it's the side-clamp screws. Actually, I might do both.

Joe Gwinn